I don't think he was talking about Hawke, either. He talked upon his duty to turn in maleficar, not mere apostates. Since the game never notices if you're a blood mage, you don't count.
Why does Sebastian get under people's skin? (Spoilers)
Débuté par
basbaker
, mars 15 2011 01:21
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#202
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 11:26
Blacklash93
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He makes a few comments I don't like. His line on the Dalish needing to be "saved" in particular.
Overall he's a nice guy, though.
Overall he's a nice guy, though.
#203
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 05:11
Birdhive
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HolyJellyfish wrote...
Sebastian just doesn't feel as integrated into the team as the others do. He doesn't seem to really get along with any of the characters, and he's the butt of many of their jokes. Whereas everyone is willing to stand by you out of loyalty and love whether or not you kill Anders or take any side (Mind you, it has to be very HIGH rival / friendship), Sebastian is very selfish in retrospect.
Sebastian gets along really well with both Fenris and Aveline after a while if you are at friendship with all of them. His dialogs with Varric are good-natured as well, no matter how much Varric teases him.
He's got a great cutscene in the Deep Roads if you take him--"Crawing through blight-infested tunnels, recsuing Wardens in Peril. This is what I signed on for", said with gusto.
There's also a banter dialog with Anders where Anders is all "I saw you looking at me", and Seb goes "What? I was looking at the clouds.", then Anders "I know you're watching me, judging me!", and Seb: "That one over there looks like a bunny."
I think Sebastian's postion on the death of the Grand Cleric at the end makes more sense when you have had him in-party as a friend a lot; my Hawke is a mage, and he's amazingly supportive of her. That dialog he has with Fenris which was mentioned earlier about turning in the maleficar includes Fenris pointing out that the reason Seb hasn't done it already is because he would be betraying Hawke's friends if he did, which neither of them wants to do, even though they may feel it their duty. So it's clear that Sebastian and Fenris both were honoring their friendship with Hawke by NOT turning in Anders and Merrill, though it was against their nature to do so. Anders also hostilly challenges Sebastian's religion all the time, but Sebastian takes it gently and never gets aggo on him about it. Then Anders betrays Hawke, and Sebastian incidentally, in the most vile way imaginable, really.
I really understand Sebastian losing it in that moment--you can imagine him thinking about all the benefit of the doubt and charity he offered Anders because of his freindship with Hawke, and you can imagine him regretting the years of overlooking what he saw as his duty, because of friendship--only to see that the object of that oversight did not offer the same honor to Hawke's other friends. I imagine that he might doubt Hawke's own loyalty as a friend in that moment, and see his challenge to her as a necessary test--because in a way, his own friendship with Hawke made him just as culpable of the Grand Cleric's death as she (Hawke).
On my first playthrough I thought Sebastian was meh. I really have loved him on my second one though.
#204
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 05:23
rak72
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Well said, bird. If you spend any time with him, you will see he doesn't hate mages at all. After the Anders incident, when Merideth wants to annul the circle, he says not to kill all of the mages when Anders is the one who did it & is right there. Then before the final assault (I sided with the mages), he says it was wrong what Anders did, but all of the mages shouldn't be killed because of it. He is very opposed to blood magic, but otherwise he judjes people on their merits.
#205
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 05:59
Rinji the Bearded
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Birdhive wrote...
HolyJellyfish wrote...
Sebastian just doesn't feel as integrated into the team as the others do. He doesn't seem to really get along with any of the characters, and he's the butt of many of their jokes. Whereas everyone is willing to stand by you out of loyalty and love whether or not you kill Anders or take any side (Mind you, it has to be very HIGH rival / friendship), Sebastian is very selfish in retrospect.
Sebastian gets along really well with both Fenris and Aveline after a while if you are at friendship with all of them. His dialogs with Varric are good-natured as well, no matter how much Varric teases him.
He's got a great cutscene in the Deep Roads if you take him--"Crawing through blight-infested tunnels, recsuing Wardens in Peril. This is what I signed on for", said with gusto.
There's also a banter dialog with Anders where Anders is all "I saw you looking at me", and Seb goes "What? I was looking at the clouds.", then Anders "I know you're watching me, judging me!", and Seb: "That one over there looks like a bunny."
I think Sebastian's postion on the death of the Grand Cleric at the end makes more sense when you have had him in-party as a friend a lot; my Hawke is a mage, and he's amazingly supportive of her. That dialog he has with Fenris which was mentioned earlier about turning in the maleficar includes Fenris pointing out that the reason Seb hasn't done it already is because he would be betraying Hawke's friends if he did, which neither of them wants to do, even though they may feel it their duty. So it's clear that Sebastian and Fenris both were honoring their friendship with Hawke by NOT turning in Anders and Merrill, though it was against their nature to do so. Anders also hostilly challenges Sebastian's religion all the time, but Sebastian takes it gently and never gets aggo on him about it. Then Anders betrays Hawke, and Sebastian incidentally, in the most vile way imaginable, really.
I really understand Sebastian losing it in that moment--you can imagine him thinking about all the benefit of the doubt and charity he offered Anders because of his freindship with Hawke, and you can imagine him regretting the years of overlooking what he saw as his duty, because of friendship--only to see that the object of that oversight did not offer the same honor to Hawke's other friends. I imagine that he might doubt Hawke's own loyalty as a friend in that moment, and see his challenge to her as a necessary test--because in a way, his own friendship with Hawke made him just as culpable of the Grand Cleric's death as she (Hawke).
On my first playthrough I thought Sebastian was meh. I really have loved him on my second one though.
You could say Anders was...
*sunglasses*
... highly judgmental?
.... I'll just show myself out.
Modifié par RinjiRenee, 18 mars 2011 - 06:00 .
#206
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:12
Birdhive
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Thanks, rak72.
There's another banter dialog between Seb and Anders which is interesting, and sheds light on the endgame a bit, I think.
Sebastian: "You've made no secret of your intent to lead the mages here in revolution."
Anders: "Well, I've tried not to shout it from the rooftops. You've just been around when I talk with my friends."
Sebastian: "Well, as we have mutual friends--who for some reason don't want to see you get hurt--let me tell you this: if you go forward with this revolt, the Chantry will bring its full might to bear. They will kill you."
Anders: "Andraste was killed. That doesn't mean she failed."
Sebastian: "Don't you dare compare yourself to Andraste!" [Paraphrased because I missed the screen capture.]
So, considering Sebastian is pretty important in the Chantry, what with his relationship to the Grand Cleric, the fact that he does nothing about Anders out of devotion to his friend Hawke is pretty bad--he's betrayed the organization he is sworn to, in a pretty big way once Anders makes his move. He does threaten Anders in this banter, or warn him, depending on how you view it. But again, you can imagine that he's just as furious with himself and Hawke as he is with Anders by the time of the final conflict. I think when he threatens to bring an army later, he's enraged that his own faith in goodness, friendship, trust, and honor have helped to bring them all down this path. If he had been a bit rougish earlier, and betrayed Hawke's friendship, the GC would still be alive, which would have been more beneficial to the Chantry, and been the greater good of saving many lives. It's been consistently ironic that his own darker side has been more helpful to the organization he is dedicated to. I don't think he's a waffler--I think he's as conflicted about his two natures as Anders has been, minus the spirit/demon business.
Back to why Sebastian gets under people's skin--I think it's because they don't play him enough! Or they are not interested in lawful-good types as players/characters. Which in a way is curious as well, because it's what Anders *pretends* to be, but never in fact is.
There's another banter dialog between Seb and Anders which is interesting, and sheds light on the endgame a bit, I think.
Sebastian: "You've made no secret of your intent to lead the mages here in revolution."
Anders: "Well, I've tried not to shout it from the rooftops. You've just been around when I talk with my friends."
Sebastian: "Well, as we have mutual friends--who for some reason don't want to see you get hurt--let me tell you this: if you go forward with this revolt, the Chantry will bring its full might to bear. They will kill you."
Anders: "Andraste was killed. That doesn't mean she failed."
Sebastian: "Don't you dare compare yourself to Andraste!" [Paraphrased because I missed the screen capture.]
So, considering Sebastian is pretty important in the Chantry, what with his relationship to the Grand Cleric, the fact that he does nothing about Anders out of devotion to his friend Hawke is pretty bad--he's betrayed the organization he is sworn to, in a pretty big way once Anders makes his move. He does threaten Anders in this banter, or warn him, depending on how you view it. But again, you can imagine that he's just as furious with himself and Hawke as he is with Anders by the time of the final conflict. I think when he threatens to bring an army later, he's enraged that his own faith in goodness, friendship, trust, and honor have helped to bring them all down this path. If he had been a bit rougish earlier, and betrayed Hawke's friendship, the GC would still be alive, which would have been more beneficial to the Chantry, and been the greater good of saving many lives. It's been consistently ironic that his own darker side has been more helpful to the organization he is dedicated to. I don't think he's a waffler--I think he's as conflicted about his two natures as Anders has been, minus the spirit/demon business.
Back to why Sebastian gets under people's skin--I think it's because they don't play him enough! Or they are not interested in lawful-good types as players/characters. Which in a way is curious as well, because it's what Anders *pretends* to be, but never in fact is.
#207
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:20
Birdhive
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RinjiRenee wrote...
You could say Anders was...
*sunglasses*
... highly judgmental?
.... I'll just show myself out.
You must have posted this while I was writing my own entry. I don't understand what you're saying--did I write something which offended? I can put more smiley faces and winkies in my post I guess! Or are you actually saying that Anders was highly judgmental? Which he was. But . . . ?
#208
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 06:55
Captain_Obvious
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To each his own religion, but when Sebastian did that whole "Merrill, do you believe in the Maker" line I had a flashback. Instant ejection from the party. He seems like a nice guy, and warrior monks are usually cool, but he's too much monk and not enough warrior.
#209
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 07:54
griffondor
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In my second play through, I romanced Anders and befriended Sebastian. And at some point in the conversation, he says "I know you and Anders are---it's not my place to question--but please be careful. He's a dangerous man. And selfish. Whatever he promised...don't think he'll ever put you before his own needs."
Wow. That actually moved me when he said that. So the writing on his character isn't as shallow as I originally thought. You just have to try all the dialogue options, what little there is with him.
He's definitely a snob and conflicted, and that's okay, he's consistent with this. But his spinelessness seemed out of character with your first meeting with him (the video trailor)...but maybe he's a character in transformation like Anders was. Hopefully, we'll find out more about him in future DLC.
Wow. That actually moved me when he said that. So the writing on his character isn't as shallow as I originally thought. You just have to try all the dialogue options, what little there is with him.
He's definitely a snob and conflicted, and that's okay, he's consistent with this. But his spinelessness seemed out of character with your first meeting with him (the video trailor)...but maybe he's a character in transformation like Anders was. Hopefully, we'll find out more about him in future DLC.
#210
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 08:44
Rinji the Bearded
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Birdhive wrote...
RinjiRenee wrote...
You could say Anders was...
*sunglasses*
... highly judgmental?
.... I'll just show myself out.
You must have posted this while I was writing my own entry. I don't understand what you're saying--did I write something which offended? I can put more smiley faces and winkies in my post I guess! Or are you actually saying that Anders was highly judgmental? Which he was. But . . . ?
No, no, not offended. I was just making a horrible, horrible joke.
#211
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 08:49
rak72
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^^ it took me a little while to get it
justice/judjmental - a ha
justice/judjmental - a ha
#212
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 08:49
casedawgz
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griffondor wrote...
In my second play through, I romanced Anders and befriended Sebastian. And at some point in the conversation, he says "I know you and Anders are---it's not my place to question--but please be careful. He's a dangerous man. And selfish. Whatever he promised...don't think he'll ever put you before his own needs."
Wow. That actually moved me when he said that. So the writing on his character isn't as shallow as I originally thought. You just have to try all the dialogue options, what little there is with him.
He's definitely a snob and conflicted, and that's okay, he's consistent with this. But his spinelessness seemed out of character with your first meeting with him (the video trailor)...but maybe he's a character in transformation like Anders was. Hopefully, we'll find out more about him in future DLC.
The problem of course is that if you befriend him your character begins to atrophy due to that stupid glitch.
#213
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 08:52
rak72
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^^
I didn't get the glitch for some reason, but Isabella ditched me pretty early. I think somehow those two combine for the glitch.
I didn't get the glitch for some reason, but Isabella ditched me pretty early. I think somehow those two combine for the glitch.
#214
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 09:24
Eveangaline
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rak72 wrote...
^^
I didn't get the glitch for some reason, but Isabella ditched me pretty early. I think somehow those two combine for the glitch.
People have been getting the glitch regardless of Isabella being their or not. Are you sure you didn't get it? It can be hard to tell, since it doesn't outright tell you "everytime Sebastian leaves your party he makes you weaker". When he's with you, it says he's giving you the buf, but he isn't actually, and when he leaves, it removes the buff it forgot to ever give you in the first place. Which if you have him then leave him enough times will stack up pretty quick.
#215
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 09:38
Adynata
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Sebastian doesn't get under my skin, but the lack of content involving him does. I can't believe you can't even bring him into the Fade. A lot of people didn't want to go in, but they did and just hated me for it. But he literally is like, see ya. I would like to see more of Sebastian in DLCs or expansions because there's an interesting story line there and he is absolutely beautiful in my opinion. His designer should be given an award.
#216
Posté 18 mars 2011 - 09:40
theradicalpunk
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Short of Isabela, Varric, and my character's Marabi (Bethany somewhat) I didn't really care for the cast to much.
The characters had qualities I liked, but their extreme fanaticism for the law, religion, persecution, and so on where so embroiled on self opinion and forcing that self opinion onto others it really makes them not as likable.
I mean Morrigan was no different, neither was Alistair, Sten or Leliana. They where so cemented in their beliefs you couldn't make headway with them if you walked a mild road.
It's just another story of Pro-Mage, Anti-Mage, Pro-Chantry, Anti-Chantry circumstances. Guess that's why I prefer the cut-throats like Zevren, Varric, Isabela, and so on. Granted I didn't like Zevren for the assassin fact, but other then that he's an alright 'murderer.'
Don't get me wrong. None of the characters are so BAD I can't swallow some of their bull**** in party. But it doesn't necessarily mean I'm bros with them.
I on countless occasions had urges to nut check Anders hard, lock Fenris in the Fade, choke Sebastian until he screamed Andraste's flaming ass, and back-hand Aveline anytime I wanted to get paid for my services.
The characters had qualities I liked, but their extreme fanaticism for the law, religion, persecution, and so on where so embroiled on self opinion and forcing that self opinion onto others it really makes them not as likable.
I mean Morrigan was no different, neither was Alistair, Sten or Leliana. They where so cemented in their beliefs you couldn't make headway with them if you walked a mild road.
It's just another story of Pro-Mage, Anti-Mage, Pro-Chantry, Anti-Chantry circumstances. Guess that's why I prefer the cut-throats like Zevren, Varric, Isabela, and so on. Granted I didn't like Zevren for the assassin fact, but other then that he's an alright 'murderer.'
Don't get me wrong. None of the characters are so BAD I can't swallow some of their bull**** in party. But it doesn't necessarily mean I'm bros with them.
I on countless occasions had urges to nut check Anders hard, lock Fenris in the Fade, choke Sebastian until he screamed Andraste's flaming ass, and back-hand Aveline anytime I wanted to get paid for my services.
#217
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 12:13
Conway044
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Eveangaline wrote...
The Lesser Evil wrote...
At least Sebastian stands for what he believes in no matter how maxed out your friendship or rivalry is, I can't fault him for that. Fenris will side with Mages and won't disapprove of letting Anders go, Merrill will side with the Templars and is fine with you killing Anders, and none of the other companions will leave you despite voicing doubts if you just pampered or pissed them off enough during the game.
Sebastian? He's got conviction, and that Andraste-shaped belt buckle is covering a solid set of Maker-powered balls. I can respect that in someone, when they don't back down from their beliefs just because you give them a firm slap (HELLO, LELIANA. REMEMBER THE ASHES?)
Really? Conviction? THat wasn't the impression I got. I got that Sebastian is ruled by his whims and emotions, one moment he wants to be prince, then he doesn't want to give up the chantry. He'll side with the mages, despite it being against his religion. And despite having spent so long yelling at me that he shouldn't be a prince and should never leave the chantry, if I don't kill Anders he's willing to go be a prince again just so he can come back and slaughter the entire city. THe dude is entirely sure of what he believes..untill he wants something else, then he throws out what he previously thought, and is entirely sure of the new thing!
I liked Sebastian well enough, even if he was kind of annoying at times, but he really is not someone I would say has conviction, he's a bit too flighty for that.
I agree with most of this^^.
Remember also, that Sebastian is willing to commit all this violence to avenge a woman who made it very clear to him that "Death is never justice."
I found his character overly preachy in the companion banter and I already had Varric (Capt. Awesome) as a ranged rogue.
#218
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 01:38
Eshaye
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I found Sebastian to be very wishy washy, he's unable to make up his mind about what he wants and what is best for him to do but he doesn't mind telling others what's best for them. That spells hypocrite.
It take a bunch of people to die to illicit definitive response from him, had he been responsible he would either have re-entered the chantry full time or went back to Starkhaven to rule and not leave his people in an uncertain fate for years! My Hawke and Aveline kept asking him to go back and telling him he'd be a good ruler for his people, but to no avail. He then expects to march back home and raise an army from the people he's neglected? What?
Needs to grow up.
It take a bunch of people to die to illicit definitive response from him, had he been responsible he would either have re-entered the chantry full time or went back to Starkhaven to rule and not leave his people in an uncertain fate for years! My Hawke and Aveline kept asking him to go back and telling him he'd be a good ruler for his people, but to no avail. He then expects to march back home and raise an army from the people he's neglected? What?
Needs to grow up.
#219
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 01:38
panamakira
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Because he pretended to be a LI but he wasn't?
His bride is Andraste? Oh no you didn't.
His bride is Andraste? Oh no you didn't.
#220
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 01:59
Sarah1281
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Huh? When does Anders ever pretend to be this? Certainly not in DA2 when he's pretty open about the fact he wants to free all mages. The law is rather against this.Back to why Sebastian gets under people's skin--I think it's because they don't play him enough! Or they are not interested in lawful-good types as players/characters. Which in a way is curious as well, because it's what Anders *pretends* to be, but never in fact is.
#221
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 02:11
leggywillow
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Adynata wrote...
Sebastian doesn't get under my skin, but the lack of content involving him does. I can't believe you can't even bring him into the Fade. A lot of people didn't want to go in, but they did and just hated me for it. But he literally is like, see ya. I would like to see more of Sebastian in DLCs or expansions because there's an interesting story line there and he is absolutely beautiful in my opinion. His designer should be given an award.
Oh, that was a big one for me. Something about the placid tone of his voice when he says "The Fade is no place for a man of faith" really got under my skin. My little warrior Hawke was a devout Andrastian, and she was willing to go. That was the only time I felt a bit peeved by his uber-faith.
#222
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 02:25
griffondor
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casedawgz wrote...
The problem of course is that if you befriend him your character begins to atrophy due to that stupid glitch.
I'm so glad you mentioned this... I thought something was wrong with my mouse.
#223
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 02:30
Sarah1281
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So he's ignoring the fact that he spends several hours in the Fade nightly?leggywillow wrote...
Adynata wrote...
Sebastian doesn't get under my skin, but the lack of content involving him does. I can't believe you can't even bring him into the Fade. A lot of people didn't want to go in, but they did and just hated me for it. But he literally is like, see ya. I would like to see more of Sebastian in DLCs or expansions because there's an interesting story line there and he is absolutely beautiful in my opinion. His designer should be given an award.
Oh, that was a big one for me. Something about the placid tone of his voice when he says "The Fade is no place for a man of faith" really got under my skin. My little warrior Hawke was a devout Andrastian, and she was willing to go. That was the only time I felt a bit peeved by his uber-faith.
#224
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 03:36
Eiliestl
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Hopefuly Sebastian will be in DA3 cuz I do really like him even if is he a little too goody-goody for me half the time.
He still is the hottest guy in this game tho.
He still is the hottest guy in this game tho.
Modifié par Eiliestl, 19 mars 2011 - 03:37 .
#225
Guest_mrsph_*
Posté 19 mars 2011 - 03:39
Guest_mrsph_*
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Sebastian has his principles and he will be damned if anyone steers him away from them. I like that. Shows he has more backbone than every single other NPC in the game.
Also he isn't an overly angsty elf or a crazy demon possessed terrorist and wins favor with me by default.
Also he isn't an overly angsty elf or a crazy demon possessed terrorist and wins favor with me by default.
