209 réponses à ce sujet

[Avispex]

Well, the game is a huge hit.  Congrats.

Clearly there is a lot of excellent work to be proud of.  The game is a beautiful accomplishment of art, music, design, narrative, etc.

We have also seen many fans address confusion concerning a few key elements of gameplay with little to no developer response concerning the following issues:

1.  Difficulty balance.

2. class balance, mana potions for mages with nothing for rogues/ wariors, steep stamina cost for skills making warriors passive during tactical battles.

3.  Inadequate documentation.  No way to know relative value of skills that reduce cost by some unknown amount, etc.

4.  Tactics menu/ default:  AI learning curve/ documentation/ working as intended?  Improved tools for party management would be a godsend.

These are just a few common themes.  Several people have written extensively and constructively and seem to have valid issues that have been articulated well and presented respectfully.

I think we are ready for some kind of a response.

[Dnarris]

I'd be happy to see someone from Bioware to address those issues.

Modifié par Dnarris, 17 novembre 2009 - 12:02 .

[scyld]

I was about to come into this thread and say how you're wrong, but yeah these are pretty much exactly the points that reasonable people have stated need to be addressed. I pretty much agree with everything you've said.



As for a response, I'd advise patience. I'm sure the developers are considering what should be done.

[EricHVela]

I, too, have to wonder about the AI learning curve. I would have figured that one battle where the guy is supposed to never use the same tactic twice would have been a particularly tough battle. Then again, if people are maging it up all the time in their easy mode, I can't expect the system to have much to learn by. (Easy difficulty doesn't adapt the AI anyway. Does it?)

[flem1]

Missing Manual project



The rest, well, this isn't a MMO. You can't whine your way into "class balance".

[Haexpane]

They're busy w/ the KOTOR MMO

[EricHVela]

SWTOR is BW:Austin Yes? Not the same branch. No? (Not sure.)

[CalibanX]

You forgot to mention:



5. Having a Hide option for Hero headgear. I didn't make a gorgeous fox character to look at an ugly helmet.

[Wolff Laarcen]

^ lol.

[scyld]

CalibanX wrote...

You forgot to mention:

5. Having a Hide option for Hero headgear. I didn't make a gorgeous fox character to look at an ugly helmet.

Well, at least we don't have to see it during dialogs

[Skemte]

Avispex wrote...

Well, the game is a huge hit.  Congrats.

Clearly there is a lot of excellent work to be proud of.  The game is a beautiful accomplishment of art, music, design, narrative, etc.

We have also seen many fans address confusion concerning a few key elements of gameplay with little to no developer response concerning the following issues:

1.  Difficulty balance.

2. class balance, mana potions for mages with nothing for rogues/ wariors, steep stamina cost for skills making warriors passive during tactical battles.

3.  Inadequate documentation.  No way to know relative value of skills that reduce cost by some unknown amount, etc.

4.  Tactics menu/ default:  AI learning curve/ documentation/ working as intended?  Improved tools for party management would be a godsend.

These are just a few common themes.  Several people have written extensively and constructively and seem to have valid issues that have been articulated well and presented respectfully.

I think we are ready for some kind of a response.

 Well goes with out saying daggers be fixed, as well as bows.. Which are changed in the hotfix.. Another thing I would like to see is two hander tree to be looked at.. It seems to be much worse of a choice compared to dual wielding..  With the constant misses I tend to see a two hander do compared to say dual wielder..

   Combat training skill should be relooked at.. As it stands if your a rogue or warrior.. YOU HAVE to get this ability, there is no ifs and's or buts about it.. It opens up the teirs for the weapon skills you need..  This limits your skill choices as both of these classes...

   Relook at the stats needed for warriors and rogues.. As it stands the mage needs 2 to 3 stats to work on.. Warriors and rogues have a wider array of abilities they have to work on.. 

    Tone down Arcane Warrior, fix Shape shifting..  Also I would ask either to open up the warrior/rogue trees to being able to spread out like the mage in spending their talents.. Or give the exact same weapon spec limitations that the warrior and rogue have with the mage and the trees they choose in the beginning.. 

    This by no means its a bad game, its one of the best ones I have played in a long time.

  One last thing.. Change the codex around, I would like a title or something in each square.. Instead of a number that doesn't give me a clue what it is what so ever inless i select it.

Modifié par Skemte, 16 novembre 2009 - 10:10 .

[T0rin3]

Avispex wrote...

1.  Difficulty balance.

Too difficult? Not enough? Not enough variation in difficulty levels? Needs clarification.

If I assume you mean too difficult, as most people who mention difficulty do, then this may be an issue of tactics/learning curve/general difficulty, than something that needs tweaks. The BG series of games that DA:O is said to hail from, are notorious for their high levels of difficulty. Now, we're not talking Battletoads difficult here, but difficult based on your approach to any given encounter. It is a stretch from the average modern game to inject this level of difficulty in, but for the genre (as defined by Bioware/Black Isle) it is par for the course.

Personally, it is refreshing to actually have a game where my tactics vary from encounter to encounter, where I have to think about how I can approach the situation differently to elicit a better outcome. For the most part, this is the case with DA:O, the exception being the mage class, or rather, multiple mages working together. Which brings me to my next point....

2. class balance, mana potions for mages with nothing for rogues/ wariors, steep stamina cost for skills making warriors passive during tactical battles.

Fix the mages!! It is a rollercoaster of power with that class. They go from Arcane Missile to Cone of Cold, not very far apart on the skill tree, but vastly different in their power levels. Storm of the Century, Mass Paralyze, Forcefield, etc. etc. It seems the top end of mage power is well above what it should be, and the lower end of mage power is below what it should be. A class full of scaling spells somewhere in the middle would be much better, more along the lines of what you see in the other classes.

The comparison to a rogue is a tier 1 skill that stuns a single enemy for 2 seconds, and a tier 4 skill that stuns every enemy within 10 miles for 2 hours. That's what it feels like when playing a mage.

[scyld]

Skemte wrote...

   Combat training skill should be relooked at.. As it stands if your a rogue or warrior.. YOU HAVE to get this ability, there is no ifs and's or buts about it.. It opens up the teirs for the weapon skills you need..  This limits your skill choices as both of these classes...

Well, it's not so bad for rogues, since they get a skill point every 2 levels, whereas mages and warriors get one every 3 levels.

For warriors, yeah it's more of a pain than it should be.

[Sloth Of Doom]

All of those issus have been addressed by bioware staff at one point or another ovr on the DA forums. Also known as the 'good forums that bioware staff actually use and moderate' also known as 'the forums that close tomorrow for some reason.'

Apparently even though the are closing, they will be archived. Also, there is actually a search feature there and a handy little blue B that means bioware staff have posted in the thread.

Have fun.

http://daforums.bioware.com/


(On a personal note, i happen to think very single one of those topics is more peopel whinng about how the game isn;t exactly what thy want as opposed to actual issues and the developers are probably spending thier time on ACTUAL game bugs and issues as opposed to wishlists.   Thats just me though,  and you are welcome to disagree)

Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 16 novembre 2009 - 10:33 .

[Kleon]

Isn't that supposed to be a single player game?

It's not like there is PvP in Dragon Age, is there?

Why change something what is clearly meant to be acording to order of things in the game?



It seems to me, that many people are so used to MMO games, that they except MMO mechanics everywhere.,..

[wonko33]

Kunkryst wrote...

Isn't that supposed to be a single player game?
It's not like there is PvP in Dragon Age, is there?
Why change something what is clearly meant to be acording to order of things in the game?

It seems to me, that many people are so used to MMO games, that they except MMO mechanics everywhere.,..

Thank God yes, please it is a single player game, who cares if one class is stronger? I've been playin all three classes and it's just a different challenge.

[TSAdmiral]

I don't think the difficulty itself is at times too hard, or that people's tactical choices are not meaningful, it's merely that the range of difficulty is huge. It's ludicrous to defeat high dragons and then randomly encounter a group of bandits that is more difficult. Other times it's far too obvious exploiting threat AI to defeat certain enemies. Enemy archers are also punishing and makes mages disproportionately useful in their area spells.

[Schyzm]

wonko33 wrote...

Kunkryst wrote...

Isn't that supposed to be a single player game?
It's not like there is PvP in Dragon Age, is there?
Why change something what is clearly meant to be acording to order of things in the game?

It seems to me, that many people are so used to MMO games, that they except MMO mechanics everywhere.,..

Thank God yes, please it is a single player game, who cares if one class is stronger? I've been playin all three classes and it's just a different challenge.

apparently a great many people.  broken game mechanics are categorically unfun for me.  I want deep and engrossing combat, not flaming train wreck horrible combat and then when I take issue with it I get, "lol bad combat is meaningless its single player!"

[wildfyre010]

I suspect that two things are true:

1. People who claim that Mages are overpowered are playing on Easy or Normal, where the penalty for misusing AoE spells is small. High tier Mage spells are very strong, yes, but many of them - Inferno, Chain Lightning, Blizzard, etc - are very difficult to use in many encounters due to the proximity of enemies to your party.

Play Nightmare as tri-Mage and see how far you get.

2. People who complain about difficulty are expecting a combat experience more like an MMO and less like a turn-based RPG.

not flaming train wreck horrible combat and then when I take issue with
it I get, "lol bad combat is meaningless its single player!"

If you are referring to the combat in DA:O as 'flaming train wreck horrible', then I assure you that is only your opinion and represents neither objective fact nor, most likely, the opinions of the majority. Having played KOTOR, Mass Effect, and other similar offerings I came in knowing what to expect and find the difficulty both refreshing and enjoyable. While there are small things I would change (the clunky spell autotargeting NPCs making it difficult to precisely aim AoEs, for example), overall I think the combat system is very well put together. In short, I think you're expressing personal opinion as if it were immutable fact, and that you are wrong to do so.

Modifié par wildfyre010, 16 novembre 2009 - 10:45 .

[Wickedjelly]

I agree with most of your points OP except for 1. If you look around these forums you see everyone that brings up this issue seems to either think the game is too hard or too easy.



So how does one truly get to a level of difficulty everyone can agree on? I think it's a bit impossible really. Besides if they fix or add some of your other points that might actually alleviate some of the complaints that some have saying the game is too difficult. As for the ones that balk the game is too easy? Well, guess they would complain more I suppose.

[wildfyre010]

Nobody thinks the game is too easy on Nightmare. I'll bet that nearly everyone with a complaint about game difficulty thinks it's too hard.



And for the record, if you think Mages make for an easier game than melee characters, kick the difficulty up a notch for your Mage. That's one of many reasons you can change difficulty on the fly.

[wonko33]

Schyzm wrote...

apparently a great many people.  broken game mechanics are categorically unfun for me.  I want deep and engrossing combat, not flaming train wreck horrible combat and then when I take issue with it I get, "lol bad combat is meaningless its single player!"

How is it bad combat that one class is better? Maybe the AI should be better at killing your mage before he wipes their asses, that's what I do when I meet a group of npcs with a mage. If you don't like certain spells don't use them, if you don't like mages because combat is meaningless when they are there don't use them.

[Haexpane]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

They're busy w/ the KOTOR MMO

SWTOR is being developed by an entirely different dev team a thousand miles from the DAO dev team (Bioware Austin), and funded by an entirely different publisher (Lucas Arts).

That's what they *want* you to think