160 réponses à ce sujet

[Magicman10893]

Edje Edgar wrote...

Considering the massive plotholes and retcons during the game I wasnt overly impressed with these 2:

Cameos from past characters.

Save game import.

My liking of the game took a serious hit everytime I met another dead person.

Oh also an improvement could be made with the amount of weapon types. Bring back crossbows and dual wield for warriors? Also, since the staff melee animation is allready in, where's the polearm weapons? A warrior hawke with a glaive would be nice.

I am fairly certain that this is a glitch rather than a series of retcons. When I transfered to Awakening my game didn't read my save right about me being the king. Although, they might have made Alistair king since I was still off running around being Warden Commander and all.

OT: I really like this thread. The criticism is fair and reasonable, unlike most criticism coming from the internet this past week. Also, the targeting on consoles needs MAJOR tweaking. Half the time I would be casting spells and all of a sudden my Mage would stop shooting fireballs because the enemy moved slightly to the left and it left me twirling my staff like I was a cheerleader with a batton cheering my companions on. Then when I try to adjust my aim it won't recognize that I'm trying to attack the enemy two feet away in CENTER of the screen and doesn't pick things up until he runs away towards my tank and is in the left coner of my screen.

And I understand the lack of armor options for companions because it allows them to flesh out the character's personality more than a suit of armor can.

Example: Isabela is a ****, so she wears flaps of cloth from her lowcut blouse to cover her ass and privates instead of pants and has a bust size that could rival the recent generation of Lara Crofts. Same as Mass Effect 2, Miranda is designed to be perfect, so they make her wear skin tight jumpsuits that show off her unhuman ass, which I am not complaining about in the slightest.

It is frustrating though to find a VERY nice set of armor and have no one to give it to because you're a Mage. At least we can change the weapons and give them accessories like belts and rings and amulets. It is a shame though that even the most badass armors don't sell for jack ****. Trying to save up to buy the staff for 150 gold and only getting about 5 gold for selling 10 full sets of armor, a dozen rings and 30 pieces of junk is bull****. Also, why is a flawed diamond worth less than a pair of REGULAR gloves? I understand that it's flawed, but the only way a diamond would be that cheap is if it the size of a grain of sand and that is still pushing it a little.

[Statulos]

I posted a bigger longer, more elaborated review; but for bulletpoints, here are mine:

-Conversations with companions are better now. I really liked the more cinematic approach.

-I miss more interactivity with the environments; little stuff such as customizing my state, help Kirkwall developing (investment opportunities like the mine leading to quests),

-Companions have a stronger personality and that is great. Still, that personality gets too strong at times and it seems frustrating to not be able to influence that deeply (Anders or Sebastian).

-It´s nice to have a choice in little things (Gamlen´s daughter, the burgrlar inside the closet...) but I feel the big elements of the plot is way too set in stone, like having to choose sides so firmly in the templar-mages affair.

-Graphical depictions feel better done than in Origins but somehow, less polished.

-Combat is easier but a bit too fast paced for my taste. Waves of enemies coming from out of nowhere don´t look nice, though.

-Recycling environments is not cool at all. If you wanted to re-discover Kirkwall, make the places visually change through the years.

-Conversations feel less impacting and important no matter what my tone. The wheel (visual interface) is not an issue, not as much as the smaller amount of choices.

-Combat is nice but the game it´s too biased towards it. I miss more conversational quests.

-The general interface could have been more inmersive and less "hygienic", especially the menus.

-Cameos from previous characters where nice. But I have the feeling that my choices in Origins are not that relevant anymore.

[Vandicus]

I've got mixed feelings about the armor. Also, maybe we should try posting suggestions in addition to each complaint we have.

For companion armor, I'd like to be able to switch it out, as well as being able to upgrade the originals as the game progresses. Having to switch out armor and gear all the time in DA:O, especially when everything but epic warrior gear was very ugly was a nuiscance, but I'd still like to be able to minmax their gear sometimes.

[GodBID]

I agree with everything the OP listed, except for

Consequences for decisions made earlier in the game in later acts.

They where MINOR at best, they should have played a WAYYYYYY bigger role.

[Kithayri]

I pretty much agree with the OP except for the following (listed a category then my different opinions on it):

Right:

Romance -
I think this could/should have been expanded on a little, more dialog about the character's past and what they have been up to during the 6 years you have known them, presumably they weren't by your side (or in your bed ) the entire time. Maybe another quest or two to flesh them out; an example with Merrill, a quest to emotionally wrap up her whole Eluvian/Dalish storyline which after a short breakdown just fizzles away into not being mentioned again.

Dog being summonable -
Fine for the most part, though it'd be nice if you didn't have to resummon him all the time. Seems to despawn after lenghty dialog and on going through zonelines, but thats a minor gripe.

Ending -
Bioware has never satisfied me with their endings to be honest, always to short and DA2 was no exception. Everything leading up to the ending was mostly great (except the out-of-nowhere Orsino fight, seriously, what the?) though it would have been nice had Meridith been loopy on her own and not "the magic stick did it"; but after the final fights and dialog the game just ends really without any real info on what happened to your companions (and yourself) in the 3 years since the final fight and Varric's interogation and i'd like to have known that even if it was just as simple as the dialog-box-cutscenes DA:O had.

Wrong:

Recycled Resources -
I agree and disagree with this one, I honestly think there were way more outfit options, both for Hawke and for the NPC's than in origins which very much had something like 3 sets of gear for cloth, leather, plate and about 3 more NPC outfits. On the other hand I agree 100% on the recyled dungeons and this is pretty much my biggest fault with the game (this is for interiors like houses and caves, reusing Kirkwall in 3 acts is fine though would have been nice if the props changed from act to act to show the passage of time) and has no excuse that I will accept as to why they did it; its lazy pure and simple.

Companion Armour -
I actually didn't mind this, it gave the characters some more personality in their appearance. In DA:O, if you had a party where you were a Rogue and had Leiliana and Zevran with you, you all looked almost identical barring the neck up. It would have been nice to have a few more variations on their outfit than the 1-2 new ones each companion has as the years roll on.

Weapon and Armour Pricing -
DA:O did this as well, those 100g+ items are your luxuary items that you get to save up for 1 or maybe 2 total; the problem comes in that they aren't enough of an upgrade over the cheap sub-20g items to be worth it in a lot of cases.

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Pretty much everything else in the OP I agree with and most of whats above is relatively minor. My only huge problems with the game were the recycled enviroments and that the final 2 battles seemed very out of place storyline wise (the mechanics were fine and fun) and I think the game would have had a better ending had Meredith just simply beeing loopy; and have the idol's significance represented in some other fashion even if that was as simple as giving the idol to somebody else to go nuts with in the end to show its power, but to make it clear it wasn't entirely responsible for this mess (unless there is some intended, planned DLC/expansion that sorts all this out ).

Would have also liked the game to be longer, but that'll pretty much always be the case with any RPG i've enjoyed.

[Dracotamer]

szsleepy wrote...

Dracotamer wrote...

BLAH BLAH BLAH

You're an idiot.

A blind fanboy  cool.

Everyone else, thanks for your constructive posts.

P.S. Included a poll on the bottom of the OP.

Modifié par Dracotamer, 17 mars 2011 - 02:03 .

[Kingthlayer]

What is with the hatred of the removal of customizing party member armor. Yes one or two suck for them but to put them in any piece of gear you find on the ground just feels wrong. Companions should have a unique look, they're you companions they're not an extension of the player character. If you want to dress up things maybe the next game can have a doll house you can put in your base of operations.

And based on the fact that BioWare went down that path with both ME2 and DA2, I hope they continue to go down that path.

[DoubleOhSolo]

I love this thread. For once I don't feel like I'm watching my grandpa complain about how things aren't "How they used to be." I for one loved Dragon Age 2. More than Origins actually, then again I get the feeling I'm in the vast, vast minority.

Anyway doe. I agree with just about everything the OP said. However, the companion armor didn't bother me a bit. I hated how my entire team looked exactly the same clothing wise in Origins. The point of companions is for them to be unique from your own character, and their armor should reflect that.

And as for the recycled areas I had a meh tone to em. I mean, Bioware, and a lot of other companies for that matter does it all the time. Origins had the same caves and forests, and so did Mass Effect. So it was eh to me.

[SamFlagg]

My two cents (speaking as someone who did enjoy the game quite a bit and was invested)

Most everything noted as "right" I agree with,

On the wrong/needs work side:

One) I think at least some of the anger over companion armor could've been fixed by allowing boots and helmets. Because with the number of boots and helmets you pick up in the game you end up after the first seven pairs thinking "Oh this is for a playthrough if I was a mage" I'd leave the breastplate as the "companion armor" though, I do like the gift/upgrade concept of it.

Two) We really needed to meet the first enchanter far earlier. Meridith's entrance was golden, and she had been talked of in great detail before we met her. The first enchanter pops out of nowhere and therefore can't be held in nearly the same regard.

Three) Flag missets in imported saves. I think this causes more of the righteous fury than anything else.

[Dracotamer]

Waiting for more suggestions etc. before I update the OP.

[Boss Fog]

I agree with pretty much everything the OP said, well put.

Edit*  I would like to add one little thing that really irks me..  

Enemy arrows should not hit me when I LoS around a wall!!  Seriously this is the most annoying thing in the world, how hard can it be to code this into combat?  Also, if I stealth before an arrow hits me or if an enemy is approaching me and THEN I stealth, they should not connect or do any damage.

Modifié par TelvanniWarlord, 17 mars 2011 - 06:16 .

[dakphillips]

Very much in agreement with the OP.  Encounters got very boring when it really just came down to how many waves of fodder are going to be thrown at me.  Another big plus that was hinted at but I think deserves allot of love is consistent dialogue choices affecting some of Hawkes speech when not in player control.  On one character, I chose mostly to be sarcastic and that was reflected in how I addressed many characters before having a dialogue option.  In my current play through, I'm a hardliner mage and now appropriately come across as being blunt/aggressive when Hawkes talking without my control.  Very very well done there.

[nomzy]

Seriously, get rid of the paraphrasing. The conversation wheel is fine and all, it's just the paraphrasing that irks me. Atleast give us an option to turn paraphrasing off/on. =\\

[Viper-sfm]

I agree on almost all points, with the exception of companion armor and the ending. The companion armor didn't bother me, as I really liked the fact that everyone had a unique look. One of the most interesting aspect of Morrigan on the first game was exactly that she had a unique look that set her apart from the other companions. And since I usually really care more about my main character then the others when I am outfitting, this was great stuff.

The ending, although good, did have some WTF moments. The Anders twist was great, but the fight with Orsino was completely unnecessary, especially the way it played out. I also don't mind a tough fight, but the whole scene against Meredith just seemed forced as well. The Lyrium idol thing really felt like a cheap ploy to close that storyline and the waves of statues were silly. IMO, the best fight was against the Arashok. Simple setup, and just a tactical straight up fight. I'm not the kind of person that plays on nightmare, so the whole fight against Meredith was just waiting to make enough damage on everything to make her die.

I was going to complain about the rest of the ending, but as I started to write my thought, I understood why it was done this way. Anyway, there were some other details that bothered me, but nothing major I think. I know not many will agree, but this was a much superior game than Origins. Where Origins felt very slow paced, and you pretty much always knew where the story was going, this game kept me on my toes all the time.

Also, I played about an hour with a female Hawke and a make Hawke before settling and imo, the Female voice was superb. Everything was spot on and Hawke ended up being my favorite character by far. Kudos on the voiceover. The rest of the VOs were great as well of course.

Another plus for me was Archery. Thank you Bioware for finally fixing this. Past Bio games were always a chore for us Archers, so it was good to finally play the part without being left out

It's 3 AM I need to sleep for work. I'll think of more later, heh.

[Dracotamer]

I think the fight showed that perhaps the Templars and Fenris were right. It was a way to make you think, "Oh crap did I make the wrong decision?".

[Edje Edgar]

Magicman10893 wrote...

I am fairly certain that this is a glitch rather than a series of retcons. When I transfered to Awakening my game didn't read my save right about me being the king. Although, they might have made Alistair king since I was still off running around being Warden Commander and all.

Well in my case Anders was a pretty major retcon, as my mage hating warden told him to sod off. Zevran got revived, so did the architect, Cullen got a demotion and transfer for no apparent reason. To be fair the numerous pointless cameo's kind of annoyed me overall, makes the world seem too small.

Oh and did anyone see the teleporting mages...? Pretty sure the codex says teleportation is impossible, Im bracing myself for a dodgy explanation.

In addition I pretty much hate all the companions save Varric and Isabella. Righteous cow Aveline, Emo-Elf Fenris, Obsesive/neurotic/naive Merill, Zealous/whiny Sebastian and retconned Anders (In my case). I know this is a rather personal complaint, but since I liked all the DAO chars (save zevran) it kinda stood out (like they tried to make them annoying this time around). Its stopping me from doing a 2nd playthrough, cause I don't want to recycle my first party nor take any of the other douches.

I know Im sounding pretty negative, most of the positive notes I agree with though. Wouldnt dare claim its a bad game, just not "bioware good".

[Drussius]

I think a lot of people are missing the point behind the companion armor thing. While I'm sure it's done partly to save coding time and ease budget issues, look at it from the perspective of your companions...

If you were fighting on the side of a friend of yours, and he or she suddenly picked up a suit of armor off of a dead guy, turned to you, and said "Put this on. Now. And I'm not taking no for an answer." What would your reaction be? Seriously? Mine would be a bit too rude to print here.

I think it's perfectly reasonable that your companions can make their own decisions how to dress. They are not five years old, and we (as Hawke) are not their mother.

On the topic itself:

I agree with many of the points made here (aside from the companion armor one, obviously). But overall, I loved the story, the characters, and many of the new mechanics and abilities. And once a patch is put out to fix import issues and quest bugs (they've said on the technical issues threads that import flags are not being read correctly and they're working on it), I think this game will have a few less issues that bother people.

And personally I have to add that I think bioware made the right choice in opening up all love interests to be Hawkesexual. I know a lot of people have been vocal about this on the opposite standpoint, saying that it's a cop-out or what have you, but I think it was a good way to open more romantic plotlines to the largest number of people. I am a straight man, and I enjoy playing a male Hawke and romancing the female characters exclusively. But I have a lesbian daughter, and it's nice to see that she isn't forced to romance one single character over multiple playthroughs just because of her preferences. Considering how adorable she finds Merrill, giving her only Isabella as a s/s option would have been a disappointment for her. A variety of choices for players of all mindsets can only be a good thing in my view.

And please, I'm not trying to start a debate over the rightness or wrongness of having 4 Hawkesexual love interests, and I hope this won't spark one. I'm just pointing out, on topic, that I would add this to the "right" column, even though I know some out there would add it to the "wrong". And that's fine. Everyone has the right to their opinion, and I respect them all

Oh! And the teleporting mage thing! I'm so with you on that as a wrong, since the codex says it's impossible, and yet nearly every mage I fought did it at least once.

Edit: For spelling errors.

Modifié par Drussius, 17 mars 2011 - 10:46 .

[Darker_than_black]

I agree with the OP in pretty much everything (though companion armour didn't really bother me).

I would also like to add that I want us to be able to intitate dialouge with companions at their home whenever we want, not just when they feel like it and a quest pops up. Like in the camp from DAO.

[Arel]

I agree with mostly everything in the OP except a few...

Dracotamer wrote...
Companion armor: The upgrades were great, however removing the ability for companions to equip armor was a HUGE no no! You did this with ME2 and saw our anger, not sure why you decided to do it here. Go back to the original DA:O method so all that extra armor we find is useful for more then just vender trash. I did not notice many NPC's etc. with different body sizes to justify this change. In fact, I cannot think of any companions that had different bodies from their related NPC's except Isabella and perhaps Carver.

The companion armors gave them more personality, and I really liked that Merril got a noble dress after she moved into my mansion; but that didn't happen with Isabela (haven't explored her rivalty path yet though, so I'm not sure).
(I never romanced Fenris or Anders so I don't know if they change armor anything either.)
Would be nice if all companions changed their armors in places it made sense. Aveline got her guard armor, but the guard and guard-caption has the same armor ? Just more progression shown in companion armors.

Dracotamer wrote...
Weapon and armor pricing. Way to high based on the money we earn, either increase income later in game or reduce prices. 102 gold for a ring or 150 for a staff is too much.

Well, I didn't really see that as a problem, more like; you can only pick one! You want staff or ring this playthrough?

Dracotamer wrote...
While the concept of crafting was good, it was better in DA:O. Only being able to find the ingrediants at set points in the story is not acceptable. Have respawnable points we can go to and mobs that drop the materials as well. They should also be part of vendors inventory like in DA:O

I liked this system better than the one in DA:O, I didn't have to invest a lot of time into the crafting; but I guess that just me, I never like crafting in games generally. 

Modifié par Arel, 17 mars 2011 - 11:01 .

[Kithayri]

DoubleOhSolo wrote...

I love this thread. For once I don't feel like I'm watching my grandpa complain about how things aren't "How they used to be." I for one loved Dragon Age 2. More than Origins actually, then again I get the feeling I'm in the vast, vast minority.

I agree with liking DA2 more than DA:O. It has its faults for sure (recyling mainly) but unlike DA:O which had a good central story alone, DA2 has interesting and fun side quests that actually tie into the main plot which DA:O lacked; most side quets in DA:O gave me a "wait, we're saving the world why am I fetching your laundry!" vibe which DA2 never gave me.

The above said because I play RPG's primarily for the story, I don't really care about inventory management or even the combat that much; though I do enjoy tactical combat more than hack 'n slash and DA2 delivers in Hard mode and above (I tried playing on Normal for my second playthrough and ugh), and (other than the act 3 ending debacle) I enjoyed DA2's story more.

The dialog wheel as other people have mentioned could be improved and the easiest way to do that is to simply write out the line that will be delivered instead of the short 1-3 word summary; obviously make this an option but when playing on a 1920 width resolution I could easily fit most of a sentence in on each side with room to spare and it would be nice to have that option.

All said, it was weeks before I sat down to play through DA:O a 2nd time (I always play Bioware RPG's twice it seems, once good(ish) and once evil(ish)) and i've been playing DA2 solid since I got it and am 12hrs into my 2nd playthrough and still not feeling like I have to force myself to play.

----------------

One addendum to Dracotamer's post about things not making sense when Templars never notice you're a mage. Its not a -good- rationale for it but Meredith does comment several times in Act 3 that she lets you get away with being an apostate because the city loves your maleficarian-self and you do good things. She even threatens to get you (tranquil threat maybe) at the end if you side against her.

Modifié par Kithayri, 17 mars 2011 - 11:12 .

[Dracotamer]

Perhaps I did not notice any of the retcon because all the cameos I had worked because they were alive in my save game from DA:O.

[Drussius]

Am I the only person that actually thinks the conversation wheel is perfect now that it has the "intent icons"? I barely read the options at all anymore. All I need to know is that the option I intend to use is sarcastic, or that if I choose this option I will be initiating an assault or starting a romance. The only time I really needed to worry about reading the choices was when the options were mutually exclusive.

I beleive it was during one of the live chat previews that the developers said the wheel uses abbreviated text choices to give an idea of the intent behind the response because if they were going to print the entire response, then having the voice actor then repeat the line you just read is redundant. And he was right. Personally, I think the convo wheel with the new upgrades is simple and works extremely well to let me navigate through conversations with little or no difficulty. I just hope the intent icons make it into ME3, since they are a huge headache-saver.

[Captain Iglo]

Really love to see an honest thoughtfull opinion for a change.
I pretty much agree, though tactical camera and companion armor didnt bother me that much.
I especially like that you didnt put the story in one of your lists since its only a matter of opinion to each for himself.

Nice read.

[SamFlagg]

To all the comments about retcons, do we even know how many were retcons and how many were incorrectly set save flags?

[Dracotamer]

Yeah the intent icons helped a ton, no more choosing an option to have it do opposite of what you want. The save flag issue was also in ME2, however many of the problems still were unable to be resolved with a save game editor and thus were deemed bugs. They still occur.