42 réponses à ce sujet

[Spinez0rd]

If i choose Orsino and the Mages, i will fight two bosses -> Orsino / Harvester and Meredith.
If i choose Meredith and the Templars,  i will fight two bosses -> Orsino / Harvester and Meredith.

If i choose to give the Arishok his relic, i have to fight him.
If i choose to give him the Relic, i have to fight him.

If i choose to help Anders, he blows the chantry.
If i choose not to help Anders, he blows the chantry.

I don't know, but it looks that my choices are meaningless. And it makes a second playthrough REALLY boring for me. And i can't even find a reason to side with Mages or Templars, both are so crazy that i just want to kill both. 

DAO had me striving for a common goal - to end the blight. DA2 has me striving just to finish the game and be done with it. 

Anyone feel the same ? 

[AlexXIV]

The really bad thing is that the small choices you make are just the same way.

Save the mages from Starkhaven and kill the templars -> the templars catch them and later they kidnap your sibling
Turn the mages over to the templars -> later they kidnap your sibling

[Everwarden]

There are no real, significant choices. Everything you 'choose' will have the same results in the end. I guess Bioware doesn't feel like having to deal with taking the various endings of two games into account when writing Dragon Age 3, so they are removing player choice affecting the world at large.

[Spinez0rd]

AlexXIV wrote...

The really bad thing is that the small choices you make are just the same way.

Save the mages from Starkhaven and kill the templars -> the templars catch them and later they kidnap your sibling
Turn the mages over to the templars -> later they kidnap your sibling

Every choice on this game has no impact on the story. 
You face the same thing every game no matter what choice you made. Your only real choices are: Rogue, Mage or Warrior. 

Everything else is the same. 
There are minor differences: Carver becomes a Templar, Bethany may join the Circle or the Grey Wardens, Isabela disappears with the Relic or she comes back with it, you may chose to not help Fenris or Sebastian. But, the core choices, the one  that we should be able to make to really change the world - those are meaningless. 

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

All choices are the same.
All your base are now belong to us.
You must construct additional pylons.

[rak72]

I agree with the OP 100%. I have no desire to start a 2nd run because, whats the point? The decisions in DAO had meaning, every playthrough was a new adventure. With DA2, the only thing that realy changes is which of your friends will stick with you. The rivalry/friend thing didn't even have any meanigful effect on anything - they went and did their bat**** crazy shenanagins no matter what. I don't even want to go back and try different "romances". They all had very little appeal. My "chaste marriage" will have to suffice.

Modifié par rak72, 15 mars 2011 - 04:08 .

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

rak72 wrote...

I agree with the OP 100%. I have no desire to start a 2nd run because, whats the point?

None, I learned this the hard way, and then uninstalled.

[TyDurden13]

The plot is most definitely on rails. You can choose who you support at the end, but it doesn't change anything that happens

The Starkhaven mages quest was the most annoying in this area - I spent a lot of time thinking about what I should do there, only to find out it doesn't matter at all - all decisions lead to the exact same outcome and future quest chain. Illusion of choice.

The area where we are afforded some choice is the fates of your companions. Those vary pretty widely depending on your decisions and how you played the game. I appreciate that a great deal, but yeah I do wish we actually had player agency when it comes to the plot. I'm not saying we should control everything via our choices, but a few key differences/details would be nice and greatly improve replay value.

[Kendaric Varkellen]

Spinez0rd wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The really bad thing is that the small choices you make are just the same way.

Save the mages from Starkhaven and kill the templars -> the templars catch them and later they kidnap your sibling
Turn the mages over to the templars -> later they kidnap your sibling

Every choice on this game has no impact on the story. 
You face the same thing every game no matter what choice you made. Your only real choices are: Rogue, Mage or Warrior. 

Everything else is the same. 
There are minor differences: Carver becomes a Templar, Bethany may join the Circle or the Grey Wardens, Isabela disappears with the Relic or she comes back with it, you may chose to not help Fenris or Sebastian. But, the core choices, the one  that we should be able to make to really change the world - those are meaningless. 

That's the drawback of the framed narrative approach they took in DA2, the final outcome is already decided and nothing you do can change it. It's the only thing about that story-telling technique that bothers me, in general I prefer the technique to the open narrative but it does limit the outcome of any choices to a large degree. Minor things can still vary depending on decisions, but anything major is already predetermined.

[TyDurden13]

Kendaric Varkellen wrote...

That's the drawback of the framed narrative approach they took in DA2, the final outcome is already decided and nothing you do can change it. It's the only thing about that story-telling technique that bothers me, in general I prefer the technique to the open narrative but it does limit the outcome of any choices to a large degree. Minor things can still vary depending on decisions, but anything major is already predetermined.

the framed narrative doesn't have to mean that.  technically it can adjust depending depending on your choices.  The only things that HAD to happen was that Varric had to meet Hawke and survive to the tell the tale to Cassandra.  Otherwise, the framed narrative does not inherently limit choice.

[Sirson]

I also agree that this game felt very linear compared to a lot of other Bioware games. Usually in Bioware games they have multiple endings with some big choices at the end. This game the big choices are pretty much out of your hand, although the illusion is there, the results are not. No matter what you do *spoilers city* your mom is going to die, you're going to lose your sibling for a while, you're going to have to fight the Ashiak in a duel, the Chantry is going to explode the mages and temlars are going to go banannas resulting in a kill em all type fight at the end.. etc etc

I still loved the game though, just very on rails like someone else said.

[Kendaric Varkellen]

TyDurden13 wrote...

Kendaric Varkellen wrote...

That's the drawback of the framed narrative approach they took in DA2, the final outcome is already decided and nothing you do can change it. It's the only thing about that story-telling technique that bothers me, in general I prefer the technique to the open narrative but it does limit the outcome of any choices to a large degree. Minor things can still vary depending on decisions, but anything major is already predetermined.

the framed narrative doesn't have to mean that.  technically it can adjust depending depending on your choices.  The only things that HAD to happen was that Varric had to meet Hawke and survive to the tell the tale to Cassandra.  Otherwise, the framed narrative does not inherently limit choice.

The way the framed narrative was set up in DA2 makes any real choice impossible, not the framed narrative approach in general. I should have been more clear about that.
In the way BioWare set it up too much was already predetermined... Thedas torn apart by the templar/mage conflict, the chantry falling apart, etc. These things are already facts at the time Varric tells his tale so it's just about how they came to pass. That doesn't really leave room for choices to have an actual impact.

[SilentWolfie]

Looks like there's no RPG in the game other than predetermined choices -__-... Even more disappointed now.

[Spinez0rd]

I just felt let down because i was hoping for Dragon Age 2 and not Dragon Effect or Mass Age or something.

And the dialogue wheel was pretty stupid IMO. I can be the tough guy, the comedian or Jesus. Great.

[Cajeb]

TyDurden13 wrote...

The plot is most definitely on rails. You can choose who you support at the end, but it doesn't change anything that happens

The Starkhaven mages quest was the most annoying in this area - I spent a lot of time thinking about what I should do there, only to find out it doesn't matter at all - all decisions lead to the exact same outcome and future quest chain. Illusion of choice.

The area where we are afforded some choice is the fates of your companions. Those vary pretty widely depending on your decisions and how you played the game. I appreciate that a great deal, but yeah I do wish we actually had player agency when it comes to the plot. I'm not saying we should control everything via our choices, but a few key differences/details would be nice and greatly improve replay value.

Yeah we can choose our companion's fate but if we go by the import example from DA:O, this is meaningless too. A lot of people killed Zevran or Leliana in their playthroughs only to watch them cameo alive and well

[Spinez0rd]

Cajeb wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

The plot is most definitely on rails. You can choose who you support at the end, but it doesn't change anything that happens

The Starkhaven mages quest was the most annoying in this area - I spent a lot of time thinking about what I should do there, only to find out it doesn't matter at all - all decisions lead to the exact same outcome and future quest chain. Illusion of choice.

The area where we are afforded some choice is the fates of your companions. Those vary pretty widely depending on your decisions and how you played the game. I appreciate that a great deal, but yeah I do wish we actually had player agency when it comes to the plot. I'm not saying we should control everything via our choices, but a few key differences/details would be nice and greatly improve replay value.

Yeah we can choose our companion's fate but if we go by the import example from DA:O, this is meaningless too. A lot of people killed Zevran or Leliana in their playthroughs only to watch them cameo alive and well

Wait.
If i kill Leliana in DAO and import my save she will still appear as the Chantry Jason Bourne ? 

[LeaveMeAlone9009]

SilentWolfie wrote...

Looks like there's no RPG in the game other than predetermined choices -__-... Even more disappointed now.

It's great for one playthrough.

[Cajeb]

Spinez0rd wrote...

Cajeb wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

The plot is most definitely on rails. You can choose who you support at the end, but it doesn't change anything that happens

The Starkhaven mages quest was the most annoying in this area - I spent a lot of time thinking about what I should do there, only to find out it doesn't matter at all - all decisions lead to the exact same outcome and future quest chain. Illusion of choice.

The area where we are afforded some choice is the fates of your companions. Those vary pretty widely depending on your decisions and how you played the game. I appreciate that a great deal, but yeah I do wish we actually had player agency when it comes to the plot. I'm not saying we should control everything via our choices, but a few key differences/details would be nice and greatly improve replay value.

Yeah we can choose our companion's fate but if we go by the import example from DA:O, this is meaningless too. A lot of people killed Zevran or Leliana in their playthroughs only to watch them cameo alive and well

Wait.
If i kill Leliana in DAO and import my save she will still appear as the Chantry Jason Bourne ? 

That's what a lot of people have been saying. I haven't experienced it with Leliana, but I did experience it with Zevran

[MR445]

What sucks is the White Lily killer butchers your mom if you kill Gascard and lead everyone to believe the attacks will stop.

BUT WAIT! I spared Gascard and he gave me an instant teleport to my moms! Sweet, now I can kill this buttlicker and save h- ... Oh... Nevermind.

[Gerrium]

Even though the outcome is the same, your choices are viewed differently by others. The journey is what matters, not how it ends. Its a principal of real life. I guess Bioware believes in destiniy as much as they believe having a homosexual Hawke. Destiny no matter the choice, will have the same out come.

Since you are speaking of choices, what about when merril was kidnapped? there was a choice telling cullen to kill the mages, give Samson the oportunity to be a templar again or to be merciful to the mages. There many of those situation that have those three arrows pointing out.

[TyDurden13]

Cajeb wrote...

TyDurden13 wrote...

The plot is most definitely on rails. You can choose who you support at the end, but it doesn't change anything that happens

The Starkhaven mages quest was the most annoying in this area - I spent a lot of time thinking about what I should do there, only to find out it doesn't matter at all - all decisions lead to the exact same outcome and future quest chain. Illusion of choice.

The area where we are afforded some choice is the fates of your companions. Those vary pretty widely depending on your decisions and how you played the game. I appreciate that a great deal, but yeah I do wish we actually had player agency when it comes to the plot. I'm not saying we should control everything via our choices, but a few key differences/details would be nice and greatly improve replay value.

Yeah we can choose our companion's fate but if we go by the import example from DA:O, this is meaningless too. A lot of people killed Zevran or Leliana in their playthroughs only to watch them cameo alive and well

Is that true?  If so, than yeah I got nothing to defend the "choice" system in Dragon Age. 

I mean, retconning Anders' potential death in Awakening is somewhat explainable because of Justice - sort of a Wynne-like spirit resurrection thing.   But Leiliana and Zevran's?  Actual in-game deaths handwaved away is really lame.

[MR445]

I believe the only thing that it changes is who is at the very end. The one mage who was only following Grace who kidnapped your sister/Merrill will show up at the very end with Orsino if you spared him. What do you get for this decision? One speech bubble of repeated dialogue, not even a real conversation. I'll bet that if you ask them to give Samson his job back he shows up with Meredith at the end if you side with the Templars with the same deal.

You can have your choices carry real weight and still end up at generally the same ending, with a much better fan reaction. My big beef is the mage ending has you becoming a pariah. You exposed a corruption within the Templars, you've time and time again saved Kirkwall. Why is it that you can only become Viscount if you side with the Templars? If your choices truly change how Hawke is viewed by others, then surely the people of Kirkwall know by now that you have their best interests at heart. After all you spent years saving them from Qunari invasions and helping key people in every caste of the city.

Modifié par MR445, 15 mars 2011 - 05:02 .

[Spinez0rd]

Gerrium wrote...

Even though the outcome is the same, your choices are viewed differently by others. The journey is what matters, not how it ends. Its a principal of real life. I guess Bioware believes in destiniy as much as they believe having a homosexual Hawke. Destiny no matter the choice, will have the same out come.

Since you are speaking of choices, what about when merril was kidnapped? there was a choice telling cullen to kill the mages, give Samson the oportunity to be a templar again or to be merciful to the mages. There many of those situation that have those three arrows pointing out.

All those choices are meaningless.
The outcome is the same. And in my case when Bethany was kidnapped i chose to spare them and speak with them, and i had to fight them because the Blood Mage that i decided to let go earlier decided to kill me. And then, on another game i decided to attack them anyway - the outcome was the same. 

The journey is what matters ? Ok. But if every journey will be the same why is Bioware trying to cheat us ? Giving us "choices" that won't change anything. 

[Gerrium]

Ah..hehe it was meant to the OP but yeah sure that happens in the game. Thing is,its not the end of the story so , these little decisions will be part of the next game, like it happend with the first.

Doesnt Samson side with you even if you sided with the mages? I know Cullen those and all under him.Same ending, diferent choices....like saying the bakery burned down but I got milk and saying the bakery burned down and i got milk and bread. I guess this might be to real for an example but there it is. These choices will echo as life goes on or in this care as the game goes on

[Lowenhart]

Spinez0rd wrote...

If i choose Orsino and the Mages, i will fight two bosses -> Orsino / Harvester and Meredith.
If i choose Meredith and the Templars,  i will fight two bosses -> Orsino / Harvester and Meredith.

With this i kinda felt there were no options, as playing mage i see no sense in why id ever allow innocent mages to be slaughtered less evil.

Being Warrior or Rogue, well decision practically made for you since you rely on Anders, being only able healer, plus youd allow you sister to be slain.

So i did'nt feel like there were any real options for choosing side here.