42 réponses à ce sujet

[Gerrium]

to you perhaps but not to those around you. If Bioware is cheating us then so does life lol. Thiings happen and could not happened another way. The protagonist changes but the out come is still the same, Destiny, my guess is Bioware is telling you that.

Save the mage, dont save the mage. You end up with who in the end and how that decision affected others.

[Spinez0rd]

Lowenhart wrote...

Spinez0rd wrote...

If i choose Orsino and the Mages, i will fight two bosses -> Orsino / Harvester and Meredith.
If i choose Meredith and the Templars,  i will fight two bosses -> Orsino / Harvester and Meredith.

With this i kinda felt there were no options, as playing mage i see no sense in why id ever allow innocent mages to be slaughtered less evil.

Being Warrior or Rogue, well decision practically made for you since you rely on Anders, being only able healer, plus youd allow you sister to be slain.

So i did'nt feel like there were any real options for choosing side here.

Yep, first time i thought: a Blood Mage killed my mom, i'd never side with mages. But then, my healer left me! 
And there is NO WAY to play on Nightmare without Support / Healing, i was eating potions like a madman. 

[Spinez0rd]

Gerrium wrote...

to you perhaps but not to those around you. If Bioware is cheating us then so does life lol. Thiings happen and could not happened another way. The protagonist changes but the out come is still the same, Destiny, my guess is Bioware is telling you that.

Save the mage, dont save the mage. You end up with who in the end and how that decision affected others.

This is one of the worst answeres i ever saw on this board. 

Choices, in real life, are NEVER meaningless. 

Choices in Dragon Age 2 are. 

The outcome in DA2 is always the same, no matter your choices. 

[Gabey5]

You have plenty of choice.... who do you think you are? Your just one dude the world won't shift at your whim.... people are gonna do what they are gonna do

[Gerrium]

I am sorry you dont understand, and I leave it at that, since I detect a hint of emotion.

[Everwarden]

Gabey5 wrote...

You have plenty of choice....

Sure. You have lots of choices! Like all those times you get to choose to be either polite, funny, or rude!

The depth of the decisions you can make in DA2 awe and thrill me! 

[Moondoggie]

This is nothing new in Bioware games really often the decisions are handled pretty poorly and just lead to pretty much exactly the same thing. I guess they didn't want to program lots of different outcomes.

The one that really irritated me was Isabella. Choose to tell her to return the relic and she leaves that was fair enough but i thought "Hey i kinda need her she's usefull so i reload offer to hand the relic over to her AND SHE LEAVES if the case was that she was leaving at this point in the story then DON'T GIVE ME THE CHOICE since it's pointless. Just have her run off with the relic.

[Gabey5]

Everwarden wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

You have plenty of choice....

Sure. You have lots of choices! Like all those times you get to choose to be either polite, funny, or rude!

The depth of the decisions you can make in DA2 awe and thrill me! 

Sarcasm?

DAO was the same

[jsamlaw]

To the OP, I think the choices matter insofar as you immerse your character in the story and are trying to remain consistent to a set of beliefs--it's Dragon Age roleplaying so to speak. I agree with you that I wish there were more story altering decisions, but developing a choose your own adventure book in video game format would require a lot of development time--time it's clear Bioware didn't have with this project.

What I think they could do is have the pre-determined characters react more appropriately based on your minor choices. Have different pre-determined speeches if your character is a Mage or Templar specced Warrior.

I really enjoyed the surprise ending and having to choose whether Anders lives or dies. I wish there were more situations like that throughout the game. While it didn't ultimately affect the story, that moment of choice really enhanced the overall experience for me. Anders was a friend, I knew what he had done was a horrible thing, but I knew why he did it and for the entire play through I had sided with the mages against templar oppression. The choice, while meaningless to the story, had meaning to my character. I spared Anders.

[Everwarden]

Gabey5 wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

You have plenty of choice....

Sure. You have lots of choices! Like all those times you get to choose to be either polite, funny, or rude!

The depth of the decisions you can make in DA2 awe and thrill me! 

Sarcasm?

DAO was the same

Your sarcasm detector is fully functional.

And no, DAO wasn't the same. You had actual, meaningful choices that actually molded the fate of the world after you made them. You have nothing at all like that in DA2. 

[Statulos]

Exactly. And that bothers me deeply because in Origins my decisions had consequences. From the crown of Orzamar to Loghain or myself alive or dead.

Here I have no choice, simply no choice no matter what I do. And it feels cheap on a number of levels.

Bugs regardign decissions from DA:O can be corrected (like not including Witch Hunt), but general lack of influence in the plot, not really.

jsamlaw wrote...



To the OP, I think the choices matter
insofar as you immerse your character in the story and are trying to
remain consistent to a set of beliefs--it's Dragon Age roleplaying so to
speak. I agree with you that I wish there were more story altering
decisions, but developing a choose your own adventure book in video game
format would require a lot of development time--time it's clear Bioware
didn't have with this project.

That is the key element for pretty much all the failures of DA 2, lack of time. However, EA will be like yeah dude, I don´t care that it could have been a better product. We have the cash and that´s it.

Modifié par Statulos, 15 mars 2011 - 06:07 .

[Spinez0rd]

I just don't get it how can people see choices on this game.

Yes, you can choose, but the outcome will be the same ALWAYS. So it's not really a choice. DAO had A LOT of choices and things were really different depending on your choices.

[fluorine7]

Gerrium wrote...

Even though the outcome is the same, your choices are viewed differently by others. The journey is what matters, not how it ends. Its a principal of real life. I guess Bioware believes in destiniy as much as they believe having a homosexual Hawke. Destiny no matter the choice, will have the same out come.

Since you are speaking of choices, what about when merril was kidnapped? there was a choice telling cullen to kill the mages, give Samson the oportunity to be a templar again or to be merciful to the mages. There many of those situation that have those three arrows pointing out.

I agree with you. I understand where the OP comes from, and it is very true that your choices doesn't make a difference in the final outcome. But the fact is, the final outcome for our life is "death". it doesn't matter what you choose to do with your life, you die in the end. So does that means all your choices are meaningless? It is not the result that matters, but the journey. 

For me, Role playing is not about what kind of result I get, but rather, what kind of choices I make in such situation. Of course, I enjoy testing out different choices and see what happened, and it is defintely a let down when all roads indeed leads to Rome. But what I enjoy the most about DA 2 is companion dynamic, your choices has direct consequences with your companion and how they treat you, and eventually your friends (or rival) will make their own choices based on their value system and their loyalty to you. 

It gives me great satisfaction that Fenris decided to fight with me even when he doesn't agree with my choices. It actually means a lot more to me than how the game ends. And I was deeply disappointed with Isabella when she never show up during my confrentation with the Arishok. 

I think that's what this game is about, that it explores the human dynamic between RPG companions, that's normally just rigid "good vs bad" choices, leads to "good vs bad" results. 

[edited for typo]

Modifié par fluorine7, 15 mars 2011 - 07:58 .

[Rhomby]

Up to my 3rd playthrough of the game with my 3rd character class/personality. Indeed you cannot choose any outcomes, the illusion of 'choice' is a thin veneer. Even though each class is different and fun in combat I don't know if I can face the exact same story for the 3rd time with it's pointless dialogue 'choices' ...... might go back and play DAO.

[FedericoV]

Everwarden wrote...

There are no real, significant choices. Everything you 'choose' will have the same results in the end. I guess Bioware doesn't feel like having to deal with taking the various endings of two games into account when writing Dragon Age 3, so they are removing player choice affecting the world at large.

That's why a canon for major decisions in DA:O and DA:A would have been better. At least, we could have meaningfull choices and a consistent setting in DA2. I have a lot of discussions on the issue and I repeated many times that every optional decision at the end meant irrelevance, just like ME2 teaches us...

[Bayz]

MR445 wrote...

What sucks is the White Lily killer butchers your mom if you kill Gascard and lead everyone to believe the attacks will stop.

BUT WAIT! I spared Gascard and he gave me an instant teleport to my moms! Sweet, now I can kill this buttlicker and save h- ... Oh... Nevermind.

Awww you saved me one playthrough. Cheers mate!

Gerrium wrote...

to you perhaps but not to those
around you. If Bioware is cheating us then so does life lol. Thiings
happen and could not happened another way. The protagonist changes but
the out come is still the same, Destiny, my guess is Bioware is telling
you that.

Save the mage, dont save the mage. You end up with who
in the end and how that decision affected others.

so it doesn't matter what we do in life we will always end up as it was predetermined by birth and die as it was written in the magical book of destiny? Snaaap **** my career then:wizard:

Spinez0rd wrote...

I just don't get it how can people see
choices on this game.

Yes, you can choose, but the outcome will
be the same ALWAYS. So it's not really a choice. DAO had A LOT of
choices and things were really different depending on your choices.

Well it makes sense doesn't it? You are replaying a history that had it's outcome already 10 years before the game events...(lol mindscrew:pinched:)

[fluorine7]

This is seriously...getting old.

People arguing if there's really a choice. No you don't have any real choices, not in DA2, or in any other games. Whatever you do, you end up fighting the arch demon in DA:O, you end up fighting the harbinger in ME2, you end up fighting Saron in ME1, you end up fighting Ironicus in BG2, you end up fighting Baal in BG-expansion, you end up fighting Malak in Kotor 1, you end up fighting Kreia in Kotor 2, You end up fighting Master Li in Jade Empire....Should I keep going?

It's not about "there's no choice". it is all about "there's no good ending!" this game is not about kill the bad guy and make everyone happy.

[Torax]

The catch isn't about how a games tend to not have choices. Just Origins felt like you had some. Granted that games version of choice was just which Allies you can call when fighting through to the Arch Demon. There is some choices in there for the dwarves. Whether or not the Legion of the Dead join them and if there are Golems or not as well. The others are more bland. Mages or Templars. Dalish or Werewolves.

The main thing with this game is just it does feel more helpless. Ask the player a question. They then sit and ponder 3 answers they would like to use. No matter if they picked the good answer or the bad one? Same result. That is just where I'm stuck thinking why ask me in the first place. Why does Grace ask me to kill Thrask? Even if I agreed to kill him, the game doesn't let me. That is when the Veneer of choice falls down.

Mass Effect didn't bother to do things like offering a choice and then taking it away. Instead of it was just someone says "I want to kill the bad guy." and you reply "No we save the innocents." The player takes and approval hit, but then they are on their way. Generally it's just a set path. I would have been fine if DA2 did more of that. Offering decisions that don't really matter functions terribly.

Why do I get asked if I want to escort Ketojan when after I choose "NO!" I end up having to do it anyway. There is the flaw and why people will bring up choices.