286 réponses à ce sujet

[Rhobert]

I may be one of the only ones whom this armor swapping issue doesn't bother. I certainly have some issues with DA2, but this isn't one of them.

As long as I can customize my character, this isn't that big a deal.

I like the idea of the characters having a unique look. For example in DA:O, I pretty much always kept Morrigan in her own robes, until you got the upgraded version after the Flemish confrontation.

Same here with Isabella. I think she'd lose a bit of uniqueness equipped in standard leather armor.

I can see why it'd bother some people, but this is not a game-breaker for me.

[Gatt9]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You can find armour upgrades for Fenris that "would be perfect for Fenris." All games have limitations. We can't cater to every individual's imagination.

It's been an option in every Bioware game for the last 10 years,  suddenly now it's a "Individual's imagination" issue?

There was time to color code the dialogue,  and time to completely alter the combat to twtich,  but there wasn't time to implement a character sheet for party members?  Despite the code that already existed to do it? 

At least be honest about it Mr. Woo,  the schedule was tight and this was cut in order to decrease the workload.  Because honestly,  the way you put it sounds about 1000x worse.

[Killa2k]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
Wow I envy you for your job. Being payed for playing games before they´re even released must be heaven:)

it's a fulfilling job, sure, but I'm not sure if anyone should "envy" me for it. Being paid to to play games sounds fun, but you can't put it down when you get bored. You can't go and play another game once you're "done." And you get to see all the bugs, things that eventually get cut, and some awesome things made less awesome over time (or maybe you just get jaded after a while).

On the other hand, and this is the stuff you can envy me for, I get get to see a game built from the ground up. I get to work with dozens of highly passionate, talented people who love games as much as I do. And I get to critique and suggest and discuss things about the game that nobody outside the project will ever hear about. i get to see levels being built and implemented. I get to hear temp VO. I get to see how the translators work. i get to giggle maniacally when the forums starts speculating on story, characters, and plots.

And despite everything, I still consider it a plus that I get to hang out with all you guys here on the forums and talk about the game. Because you guys are awesome, even if we don't always agree on stuff and things.

lol i so want your job xD  sounds like being an MMO beta tester only from the ground up with background stuff and additional rights and being paid added xD 

Modifié par Killa2k, 15 mars 2011 - 08:04 .

[Kane-Corr]

Imryll wrote...

Kane-Corr wrote...
Plus, we all know that Bioware was under pressure and a strict time limit...so we all should cut them a little bit of slack.

Ummm .... why?  They charged full price for the game.  If it were priced like an expansion pack, then I'd agree that we should adjust our expectations to the price point.

Yeah, they did....so you can just wait to buy it if you think that is deserving of them...it
s not like hte full price is the only option. That's marketing my friend...full price now....or cheapened price later, with a sacrifice of time on your part.

[aries1001]

EA has the publisher gives money to Bioware for producing, making the games DA2, in that case. Bioware is then paid by each milestone, EA has set up. A milestone could be, like finished chapter 1, maybe or ironed out some bugs. EA, as the publisher, also sets the release date. And, of course, a work of love and creativity could always use some more work. Just like the paper you're wrote in school - could have used just a little bit more time. But Stan is correct: Without deadlines or plans for you're doing, you'll lose your focus. Especially in today's world where games are an industry for better or worse.
Some of you may think that games today still are made in people's basement, this is simply not true anymore (except for maybe a few indie games). However, a game like the first Drakensang game, an indie game did cost about 3 million US dollars (2.5 million Euros) to make. And the company behind Drakensang? It is now gone; or more truthfull: They've been bought by a company that makes browser games. Just to let you know that either you develop and stay with the times and try to the keep up with the times, so that you're able to sell a lot of games. This helps you to make more games.

As for playing the game for free, it is not nearly as interesting as you think. I once helped betatest an adventure game (a game like Syberia, but not Syberia). I thought it would be fun to do. And it was - for about five minutes. Then, it became just like work. I had to pay attention to every detail, make notes of bugs, give advice on how to improve the game, and remove the bugs and so on - and so on. Stan is the led QA guy so his job is to do this all day, to play the same section over and over again. Or maybe he has people to dit for him?

For DA2, Bioware focused on what they did best, the storytelling. With the limited time available, DA2 seems to be a good game....

[Gatt9]

KealaFerret wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
One small, tiny feature may not mean much to the end-user, but it migth mean fundamental changes to the game for a developer. Features may have dependencies that are complex or extensive, as they are rarely as modular as people believe. Ultimately, it is a disagreement between us, the developer, and you, the player. We can only implement features a certain way; we can't create a system that will please everyone. As always, we do what we can witht he time and resources available and try to please as many people as we can. After the fact, we can pay attention to feedback, both here on the forums and elsewhere, and try to do better next time.

It's cost vs. benefit. Everything has a cost, and developers only have so many hours. Things need to be costed carefully. Cutting one thing because it would take massive dev resources can be better than cutting five different things, or possibly the other way around, too. You can't make everyone happy, and you can't overdo it - everyone wants to do everything. But as they say... you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need. There just isn't unlimited time, or a schedule set on "when we're done". I've seen developers claim "when we're done", but even then, there *is* a deadline. There is a flat out spot where something HAS to get done by. And sometimes, code or other aspects just limit what you can do, and doing something would require redoing a ton of stuff, and that just gets more painful.

As for comments about deadlines, deadlines are crucial. Not only to know when you're supposed to be done, but for checkpoints. Break it down into phases, workitems, tasks, and know when those are due. It's a roadmap to building software.

Before you defend them,  you should probably know something...

Bioware resused the DAO engine,  all of the code to implement party inventory is intact and functional,  there weren't any apparent changes in inventory for DA2.  So what we're talking about is what is evident everywhere in the game...

...They did not have enough time to do the art.  That's what resulted in recycled locations,  that's the issue they pointed to for the isometric camera,  and that's what the issue is here.  They excised this feature so they didn't have to redo all of the character models with the various inventory parts.  That significantly reduced the workload on an already rushed art team. 

The limitation here was that the game was rushed and art couldn't be completed.  Which is why I take offense to Mr. Woo's comment,  acting as if OP is being ridiculously demanding when the issue was that the game was rushed and functionality was cut to meet an overly aggressive release date.

[sophie22]

i think what they should have done is like with the option for the hood to be hidden. you could choose wether or not you wanted to keep the characters own outfits visible. or to activate it so that you could see the armour upgrades. because personally, say with morrigan or isabella, i wouldnt have wanted them to change from their outfits but had to upgrade them so had no choice. it would have been nice to collect new armour for characters more, but i didnt mind it like this, it meant i didnt get confused so much with an inventory full of bits and bobs

[Kane-Corr]

Ok, I think a much better option for all sides regarding the customization of companion armors should be in the form of gifts.

Hear me out everyone: Since we can't customize our companions, maybe when we receive armor, we can offer it to our companions, which would sort of act as a "gift" in some respect. Yeah it can lead to a small cutscene with some extra dialogue...but it would appease to that old style of equipping items, while still acting as an enhanced, modern day version.

Hawke----> give item to Isabella
cutscene*
Isabella: "Oh, what's this, Hawke?"
Hawke: "Just something I thought you'd like..."
Isabella: "Hmm, you know what? I DO like it!"
*Goes to try it on....fade to black....fade in, BAM, new item equipped.

Yeah, it's extra footage for each character...but adds realism and a little bit of that old style RPG....

Though, I can really care less....cause I like DA2 the way it is anyways Haha...just trying to reason and find some common ground between the haters and lovers.

Modifié par Kane-Corr, 15 mars 2011 - 08:19 .

[saintjimmy43]

Man, you guys really have been reaming poor stanley for his little "Fenris" comment. Personally, it pissed me off when I couldn't give my weak rogue some good runed armor just because she "makes her own choices" about what to wear, but at the same time, it was enough that i had to compare belts, rings and amulets in my crew without having to compare every glove, hat, and boot i came across.
what bothered me most about the armor is the upgrades, they're hard to find ("yeah, I found 'Upgraded Lyrium Weave' on this pile of bones, i'm suuuuure"), it might have been easier to put them all in the same shop and just make them available at intervals. Also, the upgrades change the appearance of the character, but not enough to make it really exciting. if i fully upgrade Fenris, i want a bodysuit with friggin blades coming out of it. if i fully upgrade isabela, i want a ton more bling or a really flashy color design, not a blue armband and a color change from solid brown to solid black.
Also, the gifts you give might appear on the character or change them in some way, not just give you an opportunity to gain or lose friend pts. I'm happier than most people on the forum about companion armor, but i still felt a little disappointed.

[aries1001]

Unlike the enemies in DA2, games do not appear out of thin air. Much like papers or reports you write for school, the lead designers, and maybe Ray and Greg, (the two founding fathers of Bioware), will have a meeting. They'll decide how the game would or should be designed. They make a design documents.
If you want to see one of these, you can google for the design document for Planescape: Torment. It is in fact, wait for it, - a 90 page - document - at least.

And like your papers for school or university, you have a deadline. So you'd better have pretty good management in your company in order to get the big deadline, or the small deadlines (milestones) when you're making games. At least when you're either a big company, or even a middle-sized company good management is a must. And I have always seen Bioware as well-managed company.

Stanley Woo's job is to play broken games, so that we don't have to. I'm not sure if we should envy him or not - however, this means that he gets to the cut content, as he has explained. And in every game, there are cut contents. And what content is cut or what is not are the decisions of the managers e.g. the Lead desígners. They're supposed to have the big overview and to make sure the game is released on time.

[Deified Data]

corbindallas87 wrote...

Hey I think it would be cool to have Isabela as an archer - Oh wait I can't
That would be so cool to throw a shield on my mage sometimes - Oh wait I can't
Wow this armor I found would be perfecet for Fenris - OH WAIT HE CAN'T [UMBRELLA] WEAR IT

epic fail BW

[No swearing, please.]

Why would Isabela be an archer, when she's an ace with a dagger? Why would Merril wield a 2-handed sword, when she's a smallish waif? They are who they are. I, for one, appreciate the greater gulf between the classes in this game. It adds replay value and makes ever playthrough drastically different.

Agreeing with about the companion armor thing, though. That's where streamlining oficially becomes dumbing-down.

[Aesieru]

Kane-Corr wrote...

Ok, I think a much better option for all sides regarding the customization of companion armors should be in the form of gifts.

Hear me out everyone: Since we can't customize our companions, maybe when we receive armor, we can offer it to our companions, which would sort of act as a "gift" in some respect. Yeah it can lead to a small cutscene with some extra dialogue...but it would appease to that old style of equipping items, while still acting as an enhanced, modern day version.

Hawke----> give item to Isabella
cutscene*
Isabella: "Oh, what's this, Hawke?"
Hawke: "Just something I thought you'd like..."
Isabella: "Hmm, you know what? I DO like it!"
*Goes to try it on....fade to black....fade in, BAM, new item equipped.

Yeah, it's extra footage for each character...but adds realism and a little bit of that old style RPG....

Though, I can really care less....cause I like DA2 the way it is anyways Haha...just trying to reason and find some common ground between the haters and lovers.

Do this 100 times in a row over the course of the game...

Et nauseum.

[JohnstonMR]

Stanley Woo wrote...

EDIT: You know what, I'm not going to give up here.

Nor should you.  I stand with you.  It's not DA:O, but I'm enjoying it, and frankly my only frustrations are that 1) The reused maps are kind of annoying, but I can get over it.  What I can't get over is that I don't have more time to just play the game.

Being an adult is no fun, sometimes.

[JohnstonMR]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
Wow I envy you for your job. Being payed for playing games before they´re even released must be heaven:)

it's a fulfilling job, sure, but I'm not sure if anyone should "envy" me for it. Being paid to to play games sounds fun, but you can't put it down when you get bored. You can't go and play another game once you're "done." And you get to see all the bugs, things that eventually get cut, and some awesome things made less awesome over time (or maybe you just get jaded after a while).

On the other hand, and this is the stuff you can envy me for, I get get to see a game built from the ground up. I get to work with dozens of highly passionate, talented people who love games as much as I do. And I get to critique and suggest and discuss things about the game that nobody outside the project will ever hear about. i get to see levels being built and implemented. I get to hear temp VO. I get to see how the translators work. i get to giggle maniacally when the forums starts speculating on story, characters, and plots.

And despite everything, I still consider it a plus that I get to hang out with all you guys here on the forums and talk about the game. Because you guys are awesome, even if we don't always agree on stuff and things.

I would bet that it is incredibly frustrating at times, but compared to teaching High School, you've got a cush job.   I'd take it!

[Giantdeathrobot]

So, we have confirmation that the shorter developpement cycle was responsible for several issues.It is obvious in game, and sad; with at least 6 good months more, many issues could have been averted, and the game would have been great. It's still good now, but stuff like the re-used levels drag it down severely. Here's hoping mistakes are learned in in this department (see ME1 -> ME2).

Also, some people seem to ignore that designing unique outfits is not lazy. it requires work, instead of just using default body types, and it allows individuals to have different body types. I consider it merely a different design decision, and not a pure downgrade from free equipment.

[Tirigon]

Deified Data wrote...

Why would Isabela be an archer, when she's an ace with a dagger? Why would Merril wield a 2-handed sword, when she's a smallish waif?

Because, even if you´re an amazing killer with a knife, sometimes it could be wise to shoot that mage  in the head before he blows you up, and THEN knife his hired swords. And who would NOT want to prove his awesomeness by wielding a 2hand sword bigger than yourself?

Edit: Also, she could do it for her lover:



Hawke [heart option]: Try wearing that sword, Merril.

Merril:  Oh but that´s so big and hard like your... I better stop talking now (flushes)

Hawke [heart option]: I bet you would be incredibly sexy wearing this "long and hard" thing  (smut grin)

Merril (flushing) Ok then I will just lift it up and... what do you do with it then?

Fenris joins the dialogue: Kill yourself maybe, cos you´re a filthy bloodmage?

Hawke: Shut up, noob. No Merril, you just, like, hold it like That and pose over that dead ogre while I get a painter. Yea that´s right that looks awesome!

Modifié par Tirigon, 15 mars 2011 - 08:49 .

[Kane-Corr]

Aesieru wrote...

Kane-Corr wrote...

Ok, I think a much better option for all sides regarding the customization of companion armors should be in the form of gifts.

Hear me out everyone: Since we can't customize our companions, maybe when we receive armor, we can offer it to our companions, which would sort of act as a "gift" in some respect. Yeah it can lead to a small cutscene with some extra dialogue...but it would appease to that old style of equipping items, while still acting as an enhanced, modern day version.

Hawke----> give item to Isabella
cutscene*
Isabella: "Oh, what's this, Hawke?"
Hawke: "Just something I thought you'd like..."
Isabella: "Hmm, you know what? I DO like it!"
*Goes to try it on....fade to black....fade in, BAM, new item equipped.

Yeah, it's extra footage for each character...but adds realism and a little bit of that old style RPG....

Though, I can really care less....cause I like DA2 the way it is anyways Haha...just trying to reason and find some common ground between the haters and lovers.

Do this 100 times in a row over the course of the game...

Et nauseum.

Haha...no. For DA2...3 times total...with different versions of cutscenes...you know...something to go along with a conversation and such. Not for EVERY single piece of random armor...that isn't realistic anymore. Characters that are great are DISTINCT....not like you. So, through each act...let the player be able to acquire a special armor if they look hard enough....then give it to your companion...they put it on...etc for the next two acts.

[Stanley Woo]

why do people keep thinking I'm a lead QA guy? i've never implied i was a lead anything. I'm just a regular QA guy who also happens to moderate our forums.

[segatakai]

Hehe I was just playing to find Isabella with my new mage to make her an archer and switch with Varric, but now I know I cant do that

Silly.

[Marn_Cherone]

Bioware, please make Dragon Age 3 with Infinity Engine.

[AJRimmsey]

Stanley Woo wrote...

why do people keep thinking I'm a lead QA guy? i've never implied i was a lead anything. I'm just a regular QA guy who also happens to moderate our forums.

because you used the royal "we" in a reply.
now your getting the flak for every gripe the game fostered..

you now have the burden of developing,publishing and taking the money for this release 

[segatakai]

Wait, am I missing something or cant a single companion equip a bow then?

So much for my Adder of Antiva

[Gvaz]

I wish I could be a QA of games, since I'm pretty critical and have a high attention to detail when I'm working on something I enjoy.

[deathlycold]

Stanley Woo wrote...

You can find armour upgrades for Fenris that "would be perfect for Fenris." All games have limitations. We can't cater to every individual's imagination.

Being able to equip armor on your companions isnt really catering to everyones immagination. Its was in Dragon Age Origins and was expected to be in this game. 

I felt decieved as did many other fans when we found out we could not equip armor. 

[Tirigon]

AJRimmsey wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

why do people keep thinking I'm a lead QA guy? i've never implied i was a lead anything. I'm just a regular QA guy who also happens to moderate our forums.

because you used the royal "we" in a reply.
now your getting the flak for every gripe the game fostered..

you now have the burden of developing,publishing and taking the money for this release 

I gladly assist by taking up the last burden of the 3.