30 réponses à ce sujet

[Inchoroi]

Hi,

How would I go about setting up a Goad tactic on one of my rogues to have Hawke be the recipient of the Goad?  I'm trying to have it set up so that when enemies cluster on Anders (or whomever) that my rogue uses Goad and directs the aggro toward Hawke.  

The problem I'm having with it is that the conditional is fine: Target: Anders: Enemies > 3 clustered but then the action is just Goad, and right now I'm not seeing how to direct the Goad to the character of my choice. 

I suspect it can be done, since I got the idea from reading the Ultimate Vanguard Nightmare thread, but I just don't have the computing power upstairs to puzzle this one out.  I would definitely appreciate a little assistance.

Thank you

[Tekman9]

i was wondering about this as well. im a programmer but not familiar enough with how the tactics work lol.

[Raygereio]

The way I did it was like this:
1: Self: Health<=75% -> Jump to tactic 5
2 : <non tank party member 1>: Health<=75% -> Jump to tactic 5
3 : <non tank party member 2>: Health<=75% -> Jump to tactic 5
4: Self: Any -> Jump to tactic 6
5: <tank party member>: Any -> Use goad
6: <other tactics>

The downside to this method is that you'll need to change entries 2 and/or 3 every time you change party composition.

Inchoroi wrote...
The problem I'm having with it is that the conditional is fine: Target: Anders: Enemies > 3 clustered but then the action is just Goad, and right now I'm not seeing how to direct the Goad to the character of my choice. 

Wait, how did you get that conditional? All I'm seeing when using your allies as targets are options to check for health, mana/stamina, status effect and if they're being attacked by one of three attacks. I don't see anything to check whether an ally is surrounded by enemies.

Modifié par Raygereio, 15 mars 2011 - 07:25 .

[Inchoroi]

ah, you are right. I just went back and looked. It seems to be either Enemy Cluster [number] or if I pick a character then the best I can do is "being attacked by [whatever attack]". So I guess I would just have to try either of those out and see which one works the best.

[Statisfaction]

Check this out, under targeting details:
http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Tactics

Some of the Enemy conditions are for setting targets, like Enemies clustered, and other's are used when a target is already selected, like Health >50%. If there was Ally, surrounded by 2 or more enemies, condition for next, health <90%, Goad?

[Robberthooij]

creative solution maybe?

Make use of Back to back.

So we want your rogue to do the following:
01 if anders is attacked by melee
02 'back to back' to anders
03 see if he's surrounded by more then two (I.E. if your rogue is surrounded)
04 execute goad on hawke.

translated into tactics :

01 Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack --> Jump to Tactic 06 [this must be first line]
[your normal rotation, ending with following line]
05 Enemy: Lowest Health --> Attack

06 Anders: Any --> use: Back to Back
07 Self: Surrounded by at least two enemies --> Jump to 09
08 Enemy: Nearest --> Attack

09 Hawke: Any --> use: Goad.
10 Enemy: Nearest --> Attack

hawke represent a tank, anders a squishy

Modifié par Robberthooij, 16 mars 2011 - 07:42 .

[Krynis]

in the example Robb uses will the goad tactic not execute on its own before I want it to? can I disable the tactic and still have it trigger via jump to?

er nm I see now.

Modifié par Krynis, 21 mars 2011 - 01:42 .

[Sinman420]

I too have been wondering how to set up this tactic. Since the patch for the PS3 version to fix "goad" was released today I thought I'd try the game again as a warrior without the use of "taunt". I don't pay enough attention to constantly taunt enemies so I normally play as a rogue or mage to keep my party from dieing. With the use of goad and "armistice" I figured the rogue could handle moving the threat to my two-handed weapon wielding warrior. So I've seen the below tactic used with goad on other forums and I don't think it's working correctly as my party members seem to continue to be attacked even after I notice that goad was used by my rouge. I'll give the "Jump to" tactic above a try with the switch to "Enemy attacking part Member".  It would be nice if the Devs could better explain this tactic and how the targeting should work.

Anders: Being attached by a melee or ranged attack --> Use current condition for next tactic.
Hawk: Any --> Goad
Self (Varric): Being attached by a melee or ranged attack --> Use current condition for next tactic.
Hawk: Any --> Goad

Modifié par Sinman420, 20 avril 2011 - 01:22 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Sinman420 wrote...
Anders: Being attached by a melee or ranged attack --> Use current condition for next tactic.
Hawk: Any --> Goad
Self (Varric): Being attached by a melee or ranged attack --> Use current condition for next tactic.
Hawk: Any --> Goad

This is the only way to use Goad on consoles at the moment. The enemies must be within the area to be affected. You can ensure this by finishing the tank's tactics like:

enemy: attacking Anders: attack
enemy: attacking Varric: attack
enemy: attacking Merrill: attack

forcing a priority assist basis, using battle synergy upgraded can improve this process.

fyi:
everyone attempting to use jump should know that it jumps to 1 less the number chosen.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 20 avril 2011 - 01:30 .

[Grimling]

So is goad working on console now? I read the patch notes(I think they were the rights ones)and didn't see any mention of it.

[SuicidalBaby]

it works

[Sinman420]

My understanding from the description and the way that goad targeted an area like "bursting arrow" was that it took 100% threat for the enemies within the area targeted and you could chose which ally to move the threat to. Now since patch 1.01 there is no area to chose so my original assumption was incorrect.  It looks like all it's doing now is simply keeping enemies that are already near the targeted member and forcing them to attack that member. This ability seems far less effective then "taunt" and it's upgrade "bellow" which draws enemies away from other characters.  So in order to continue to play through with Hawk as my only warrior without the use of taunt I'll have to use something like the below tactics for my rogue and mage to keep threat on Hawk.

Varric's Tactics
Self: Health < 50% --> Use condition for next tactic
Anders: Any --> Back to Back
Anders: Being attacked by melee --> Back to Back
Self: Surrounded by at least least two enemies --> Armistice
Anders: Being attacked by ranged or magic attack --> Pinning Shot
Anders: Being attacked by melee --> Armistice
Self: Being attacked by melee --> Armistice
Hawk: Being attacked by melee --> Goad

Ander's Tactics (Being used as a heal bot no offensive spells)
Self: Surrounded by at least two enemies --> Mind Blast
Self: Being attacked by melee --> Glyph of Repulsion
Enemy: Attacking Anders --> Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Using ranged or magic attack --> Glyph of Paralysis
Self: Being attacked by melee --> Glyph of Paralysis
Self: Being attacked by melee or ranged attack --> Barrier

Modifié par Sinman420, 20 avril 2011 - 12:41 .

[SuicidalBaby]

this deserved a new thread, not a month old outdated reanimated corpse of misinformation

[Grimling]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

this deserved a new thread, not a month old outdated reanimated corpse of misinformation

I agree, but since I don't have substantial input to offer myself I won't start one.  Maybe a forum tycoon could

I AM A NOOB TO TACTICS AND JUST TRYING TO LEARN, DON'T TAKE ANYTHING I TYPE BELOW AS FACTUAL, POSTED IN THE SENSE OF SEEKING KNOWLEDGE


Looking at goad now and I *think* it's affect is in the form of a PBAoE around Varric in which he draws the threat from the mobs in a 6m (10m) range from around him and targets to character of players choosing.  Is this assumption correct?
For example, if Anders is standing across the room, 30m and Varric uses
Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack --> Use current condition for next tactic.
Hawk: Any --> Goad

That tactic would do no good correct? As Anders is too far away from Varric.

If that is correct what about the following?

3. Anders:Being attacked by melee --> jump to 16

14. skip tactics
15. filler (actual jump destination but no idea what to use here)
16. Anders:Any --> back to back
17. Hawke: Any --> Goad 

If I understand tactics correctly this would jump to 15 and do back to back to Anders, bringing Varric across the room and placing the enemies attacking Anders with melee within Goad's 6m range.  Then the sequence would start over and Anders still being attacked by melee it would jump again to 15 and back to back being on cooldown procede to 17 and cast Goad.

If that is correct, my concern would be what if all mobs didn't stop attacking anders, or new ones aggro'd on him?  Would the tactics get stuck in a loop of skipping from 3 to 15?

Easy work around may be to move the skip tactics from 3 down to 13.

13. Anders:Being attacked by melee -> jump to 16
14. skip tactics
15. filler (actual jump destination but no idea what to use here)
16. Anders:Any --> back to back
17. Hawke: Any --> Goad 

Drawback here would be that pulling aggro off Anders using goad would be pretty low priority.

Thoughts? Am I correct/incorrect in this thinking?

Modifié par Grimling, 20 avril 2011 - 06:20 .

[Lumikki]

So, basicly Goad is like smaller version of Taunt, but targeted companion?

Modifié par Lumikki, 20 avril 2011 - 06:48 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Am I correct in this thinking?

No.

The source of the area of effect is the targeted ally.


Lesson #3 is going to have to be an Act 1 Varric Scoundrel build.

[Grimling]

That would be a good lesson SuicidalBaby.

So the instead of a PBAoE it's a Targeted AoE around an ally. But then that would mean it redirects 100% threat around an ally back onto that ally. Reaching out from that ally to a range of 6/10m. So you use Goad on Tank and every enemy within 6/10m concentrates fully on him.

Helpful to keep aggro, not so great for pulling it off merril or anders who shouldn't be near a tank on nightmare.

Modifié par Grimling, 20 avril 2011 - 08:46 .

[brazen_nl]

Lumikki wrote...

So, basicly Goad is like smaller version of Taunt, but targeted companion?

Correct.

Taunt: The warrior that Taunts gets the aggro from the enemies within its AoE (center is the warror).
Goad: The character targeted by the rogue gets the aggro from the enemies within its AoE (center is the targeted character).

And if "smaller version" refers to the size of the AoE then you are correct on both counts.

[Sinman420]

brazen_nl wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

So, basicly Goad is like smaller version of Taunt, but targeted companion?

Correct.

Taunt: The warrior that Taunts gets the aggro from the enemies within its AoE (center is the warror).
Goad: The character targeted by the rogue gets the aggro from the enemies within its AoE (center is the targeted character).

And if "smaller version" refers to the size of the AoE then you are correct on both counts.

If this is true then using the below tactics seem to be the only successful way to set this ability up as one of the auto tactics.  Alternatively you would have to wait until your tank is surrounded by enemies and cast Goad manually.  In which a a good strategy then would to manually cast Goad on your tank when surrounded by enemies then cast an AoE damage spell centered on your tank by either your mage or rogue to ensure threat stays on the tank or vice versa if you can time it correctly would probably yeild better rusults.

< Tank > : Being attached by melee --> Goad
Enemy: Target of < Tank > --> Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Using ranged or magic attack --> Use currnt condition for next tactic
< Tank > : Any --> Goad
Enemy: Target of < Tank > --> Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target rank Elite or higher --> Use current condition for next tactic
< Tank > Any --> Goad

Modifié par Sinman420, 20 avril 2011 - 10:03 .

[frustratemyself]

Grimling wrote...

So you use Goad on Tank and every enemy within 6/10m concentrates fully on him.

Helpful to keep aggro, not so great for pulling it off merril or anders who shouldn't be near a tank on nightmare.

This is where armistace needs to be used to lower the threat generated by your mages.

[SuicidalBaby]

that wont work sin, not in the manner you hope anyway

[brazen_nl]

Sinman420 wrote...

brazen_nl wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

So, basicly Goad is like smaller version of Taunt, but targeted companion?

Correct.

Taunt: The warrior that Taunts gets the aggro from the enemies within its AoE (center is the warror).
Goad: The character targeted by the rogue gets the aggro from the enemies within its AoE (center is the targeted character).

And if "smaller version" refers to the size of the AoE then you are correct on both counts.

If this is true then using the below tactics seem to be the only successful way to set this ability up as one of the auto tactics.  Alternatively you would have to wait until your tank is surrounded by enemies and cast Goad manually.  In which a a good strategy then would to manually cast Goad on your tank when surrounded by enemies then cast an AoE damage spell centered on your tank by either your mage or rogue to ensure threat stays on the tank or vice versa if you can time it correctly would probably yeild better rusults.

< Tank > : Being attached by melee --> Goad
Enemy: Target of < Tank > --> Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Using ranged or magic attack --> Use currnt condition for next tactic
< Tank > : Any --> Goad
Enemy: Target of < Tank > --> Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target rank Elite or higher --> Use current condition for next tactic
< Tank > Any --> Goad

If I read you correctly, what you want to do is draw aggro to your tank, when the tank is surrounded by n enemies. In that case, the usual way is to have the Warrior do the Taunt.

     Tank:Surrounded by n enemies -> Taunt

Enemies within the AoE of Taunt will be drawn to the warrior taunting. The center of the AoE is the Tank.

Using Goad/Armistice is used to draw aggro away from non-tanks. A use would be:

     Mage:Being attacked by a melee [or ranged] attack -> Use condition for next tactic
     Tank: Any -> Goad

Goad's target is the Tank. It will only move aggro to the Tank if the enemies attacking the mage are within the AoE of Goad, again, measured from the position of the Tank. So, an enemy attacking the Mage positioned 20m from the Tank, but standing next to the Mage will not be affected.

In that case:

     Mage:Being attacked by a melee [or ranged] attack -> Armistice

Armistice's target is the Mage. This time, the enemies need to be within the AoE of Armistice. So, enemies within the AoE of Armistice, measured from the position of the Mage, will seek another target, but not necessarily your tank. Enemies, eg. Archers, outside of the range of Armistice will not be affected.

Modifié par brazen_nl, 20 avril 2011 - 10:39 .

[brazen_nl]

I expressly post this separately:

The most important factor in controlling aggro is you, the player!

[Sinman420]

brazen_nl wrote...

I expressly post this separately:

The most important factor in controlling aggro is you, the player!

I agree but I'm looking to accomplish a build similar to the one shown in the this forum http://social.biowar...16406/1#6616406 .  According to the creater they have a warrior in which they don't use taunt and sucessfully control aggro using the below tactics for Varric.  I'm puzzled as to how he did it since 1 I can't get my rogue to cast Armistice on himself and 2 Hawk would have to be attacking the enemey every time Goad was cast or else it was waisted.  In which case you can replace the three conditions and use Ally: Being attacked by melee or ranged attack.

Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
Hawke: Any - Goad
Merrill - Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
Hawke: Any - Goad
Self: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
Hawke: Any - Goad
Self: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice
Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice

Modifié par Sinman420, 21 avril 2011 - 03:26 .

[brazen_nl]

Sinman420 wrote...

brazen_nl wrote...

I expressly post this separately:

The most important factor in controlling aggro is you, the player!

I agree but I'm looking to accomplish a build similar to the one shown in the this forum http://social.biowar...16406/1#6616406 .  According to the creater they have a warrior in which they don't use taunt and sucessfully control aggro using the below tactics for Varric.  I'm puzzled as to how he did it since 1 I can't get my rogue to cast Armistice on himself and 2 Hawk would have to be attacking the enemey every time Goad was cast or else it was waisted.  In which case you can replace the three conditions and use Ally: Being attacked by melee or ranged attack.

Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
Hawke: Any - Goad
Merrill - Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
Hawke: Any - Goad
Self: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
Hawke: Any - Goad
Self: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice
Anders: Being attacked by a melee attack - Armistice

A couple of points before we get into the tactics discussion ...

When you play a Warrior such as in the guide you are linking to, killing enemies left and right gives you (the PC, the warrior) an insane amount of aggro, because of the damage done. This is one of the points of controlling aggro yourself, as you the player.

You are not getting the point of Goad. Its use is exactly the opposite of what you are saying. For all intents and purposes, your tank is the only character who can take aggro and survive. So, even if your tank is NOT attacking anything, you still want aggro on him. That is the purpose of Goad. It directs aggro to the targeted character no matter what (provided enemies are within its AoE). I hope you see now that Hawke attacking or not has nothing to do with wasting a Goad.

Now, to the tactics. Casting Armistice on yourself is possible via Tactics only. If they work, that will be a good exercise for you to test. Trying to understand tactics is trial and error. Save a game, clear all tactics and only put that line in and you'll see that it will fire. Just don't play with the character that you want to test tactics on!

You want to replace the three pairs of lines by one pair like so:

     Ally: Being attacked by a melee attack -> Use condition for next tactic
     Tank: Any -> Goad

Now here's a waste of Goad. If the Tank is already being attacked by a melee attack, you've succesfully put your Goad on cooldown for no reason at all.

Now, let's revisit AreleX' guide for a second. Using the same tactics does not guarantee the same result. The same goes for SuicidialBaby/SabreSandiego/Jack-Nader/whomever's guides, but AreleX' case is special. He makes it look easy by not pausing the game. His last guide (the nuking mage) makes it even worse and as I told him I do expect massive failure from people getting killed left and right. Why? One reason is there is no focus fire in the tactics, so the responsibility of getting a target down is even more left to the player, and most importantly because, and here it comes again: You the player are the most important factor in controlling aggro. Take the warrior's guide, note how he hits an enemy twice and moves away while it's not dead? He's controlling aggro. Note when he moves away when there's a stagger on a normal enemy? He knows his mage's Chain Lightning is not on cooldown and trusts it will fire.

I'll leave you with this to think about: Given the setup of 1 melee that you control and 3 ranged, what's the point of Goad when the ranged party is out of range of the Goad anyway?

Be cool and stay safe.