204 réponses à ce sujet

[benreeder2431]

Everyone I know who plays Dragon Age adore the mages. I have not met one templar supporter other than one attempting to get all the achievements, trophies, etc. I'm curious if you guys are actually out there. Personally, I'm a huge mage supporter. I don't even mind blood magic to a degree.


So, are you a full on mage supporter like me, a mage supporter who still thinks order is needed and blood magic is bad, or a templar supporter?

[skylr616]

Well... I think even Bioware knows that most folks favor the mages... its probably why every mage in this game seems to turn to demons/blood magic at the slightest provocation and why every time you choose to help them the choice ends up biting you in the ass (hope thats not too spoilery).

I too favor the mages but look forward to going all templar on my next play through (probably as a mage, lol).

Modifié par skylr616, 15 mars 2011 - 06:36 .

[TheJestersHat]

Used to support them, not anymore- now i  quite enjoy chopping down mages. Mainly thanks to that annoying Welsh Elve.

Modifié par TheJestersHat, 15 mars 2011 - 06:38 .

[Aesieru]

In the logic sense yes, in how they're portraying it, no.

[OmegaBlue0231]

I just wanted the achievements, I feel so dirty now!

[Xewaka]

I think the fact that DA:O had the companions on average biased against templars (the fact that the party resident Templar, Alistair, badmouths them should be proof enough) has slanted the public preconception against them. DA 2 goes a bit heavy handed the other way, but it was necessary to achieve overall balance of perspective.

[skylr616]

Aesieru wrote...

In the logic sense yes, in how they're portraying it, no.

In the logic sense?!

It's not logical to assume that because a single person has many times the potential for destruction as a normal person... and that same person has many times the chance for corruption by *actually* evil forces... that that person may need to be carefully watched and/or guided?! *ponder*

I think from an objective approach the decision should be much harder than it is... but everyone likes being able to throw around fireballs and lightning and such (or have friends that do so) so they tend to err on that side of things ;P

[Pudricks]

It doesn't even matter who you support. You're going to kill the mages and the templars.

[Jon Beck]

So much for the "no spoilers" rule...

I've only played one side through so far, but I have to say, the strength in this game's story lies in its ambiguity. I didn't know which side to take - kept going back and forth! I'm glad they did this.

[Epic Legion]

I used to support mages, but after beating DA2 not anymore. My next playthroughs are going to be pro-templar only.

[zx2781]

I kill every filthy mage and throw them all under the bus at every opportunity. Mages are for the weak. This is a warrior's world.

[Tirigon]

I hate templars to the very core, in DAO I actually reloaded after supporting them for the achievement cos I couldn´t stand finishing a game in which I supported them.

They remind me of the N@zi SS, only more successful and with better-looking armor.


But there actually are supporters out there, I know it....

[Aesieru]

skylr616 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

In the logic sense yes, in how they're portraying it, no.

In the logic sense?!

It's not logical to assume that because a single person has many times the potential for destruction as a normal person... and that same person has many times the chance for corruption by *actually* evil forces... that that person may need to be carefully watched and/or guided?! *ponder*

I think from an objective approach the decision should be much harder than it is... but everyone likes being able to throw around fireballs and lightning and such (or have friends that do so) so they tend to err on that side of things ;P

Misinterpretation beyond imagining...

I support the Templars in the fact that magic is dangerous in this world, and can lead to abominations and other things, and while it seems they can handle it with trained Templars (that they may just need to keep in reserve as an ace in the hole so to speak), it also seems to have benefits in this world (not in the civilian style though, as you can't just clean things, but in the military as the world is at war).

But at the same time, I don't believe the whole circle idea is bad, just how they're pushing in on it, while people can be discontent with having guards watch them all the time, as long as those guards don't do anything besides that, then it's a price a pay. Furthermore, in Ferelden, the circle didn't seem all that bad, and people researched and studied and indeed they learned the art of magic, and it seemed they could also travel outside of the circle if they wanted to, though I'm not sure if they needed a Templar escort or not.

People might have been displeased, but it worked... just needed a few more fixes and a bit less prejudice.

BUT, in terms of the Kirkwall circle, which we never even get to see... it seems to be portrayed as people looking the wrong way and thus being punished, and that's not right.... nor do the Templars really support that, of course, I've only seen two circles now, and many exist based on many cities.

Mages don't need to rule themselves necessarily, though I'm sure it could work if they actively sought out the negative elements of magic and quashed them, but they do need to maintain the Templar as a source to fight them.

Now as for hunting down the rogue mages... magic can be dangerous and it can lead to abominations, so that's a good idea, but maybe more Xavier X-men style, rather than capture or kill style.

[Steks25]

Yes, I support them!!

Sadly I got a ridiculous ending that doesnt make any sense...

[Satyricon331]

In DAO, I was a mage supporter who thought there needed to be some oversight (and felt ambiguous towards blood magic that used the mage's own blood etc.). After DA2, I just don't care about either side since it seems like they're all just going out of their way to self-destruct. Yes, I realize that the Kirkwall Circle was supposedly particularly bad, and sure, if there were a similar situation in RL I'd try to care in the way I care about what happens in e.g. African civil wars (which is more than you might expect), but the game just went out of its way to suck my concern for these factions dry.

In principle, I'm still in the middle category but I don't really care - although I do care/feel upset about how little I care about it, sadly.  I wish they had done a better job of making both sides seem reasonable and sympathetic while they still fell into conflict instead of pushing me away so hard.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 15 mars 2011 - 07:29 .

[Akka le Vil]

benreeder2431 wrote...

Everyone I know who plays Dragon Age adore the mages. I have not met one templar supporter other than one attempting to get all the achievements, trophies, etc. I'm curious if you guys are actually out there. Personally, I'm a huge mage supporter. I don't even mind blood magic to a degree.

So, are you a full on mage supporter like me, a mage supporter who still thinks order is needed and blood magic is bad, or a templar supporter?

Templar supporter here.

As David Gaider once pointed, it's easy to take the PoV of mage, because we play godawful powerful heroes, whose friends are mages and who have the all-mighty powers of :
- Being the center of the story, which means we're immune to the apocalyptic destruction mages can wreck (for example, we'll always have a way to get out of a deadly situation).
- Having the quickload power, which means if we fail at getting out of the deadly situation, we can do it again.
- Not actually living in the game world, which means threat to our lives tend to generate more a chuckle of "yeah, they all say that, and they all end up dead !", while in real life, having someone threatening your life is quite scary - and I'm not talking about someone who can mind-control you.

I'm a roleplayer, which means I immerse myself in the game and like to imagine I'm "really" the hero. Having people who can destroy a village out of the blue, or who can mind-control you and other, is deadly frightening - unless you're completely lacking in any kind of common sense.

Most templars are actually incredibly selfless, dedicating their live to guard people who can be deadly menace, at the risk of their own existence. A true repressive society would simply kill anyone show any talent for magic. That Thedas' society bother to dedicate so much ressources to keep people in check but alive is already quite an humanistic feat.

[Grissium]

Actually my first Dragon Age character was very much a Circle/Templar supporter, and I was playing the Mage Origin no less. My thought was the game makes it very clear that mages are dangerous, and while the system wasn't perfect a system was needed to make sure that people who didn't use magic responsibly are watched. The second time around I have fallen very much into the anti-Templar argument mainly because of Bethany, I am looking forward to my second play through and the delicious irony of being pro-templar apostate mage.

[Tirigon]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Templar supporter here.

As David Gaider once pointed, it's easy to take the PoV of mage, because we play godawful powerful heroes, whose friends are mages and who have the all-mighty powers of :
- Being the center of the story, which means we're immune to the apocalyptic destruction mages can wreck (for example, we'll always have a way to get out of a deadly situation).
- Having the quickload power, which means if we fail at getting out of the deadly situation, we can do it again.
- Not actually living in the game world, which means threat to our lives tend to generate more a chuckle of "yeah, they all say that, and they all end up dead !", while in real life, having someone threatening your life is quite scary - and I'm not talking about someone who can mind-control you.

I'm a roleplayer, which means I immerse myself in the game and like to imagine I'm "really" the hero. Having people who can destroy a village out of the blue, or who can mind-control you and other, is deadly frightening - unless you're completely lacking in any kind of common sense.

So, basically you are saying it´s ok to oppress them all because they MIGHT be evil and decide to blow you up?

Ok, ok, I guess that means it´s ok for me to shoot anyone I don´t like because they might beat me up one night when I´m too drunk to aim?

Drastic example here, admittedly, but that´s what happens if you think your reasoning through. Oppressing an entire group of people because they COULD potentially bring harm to someone is always wrong.


Besides of that, if I roleplay some peasant am I really afraid of bloodmages and demons? Probably yes.

But wouldn´t you agree that I´m much more afraid of bandits who rob and kill me just for fun and are much more common. After all, why would an all-powerful mage even care for me?
They´re more the big-bad-wolf kind of scary than an actual threat to me.

It´s only the kings and warleaders who need to fear mages, because they´re the only ones who can stand up to you without an army of their own.

[BeljoraDien]

Er... who would be a Templar supporter in RL? Maybe for RPing reason, but look at the black/white issue they present you with:
Templars=Oppressors, ignorant, fanatical
Mages=Oppressed, prodigy, libertarian

It's pretty ridiculous how they beat you over the head with it too. For RPing reasons, it needs to be left ambiguous...

[Velesfray]

Mages are so evil ... must be destroyed!

[Nonoru]

Mages need to be watched.
Mages shouldn't be locked in a tower.
Someone should watch the templars as well.

The circle in Ferelden was better than Kirkwall's.Greagor and Irving were working together while Meredith and Orsino were in open conflict.It couldn't finish in a good way.

[Aesieru]

Don't forget, Templars are hooked on drugs.

[Akjosch]

Greenleaf6 wrote...

It doesn't even matter who you support. You're going to kill the mages and the templars.

So, why not pick the third option?

[Tirigon]

Akjosch wrote...

Greenleaf6 wrote...

It doesn't even matter who you support. You're going to kill the mages and the templars.

So, why not pick the third option?

Become an abomination?