204 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Perfect-Kenshin wrote...
I've gotta disagree. As Sebastian tells Anders is one of their conversations, no one is truly free. Hawke was forced to go to Kirkwall. Sebastian was forced to become a member of the Chantry. We're a slave to circumstances. On ther other hand, it's known fact that demons prey on mages and will always do so. It's also a known fact that i was because of Mage workings that the Archdemons even came into existence. I'm not saying Mages should be brutalized and kept locked up, but there certainly exist the need for security. If it were up to me, I'd have everyone simply register whether they are a mage and keep Templars on standby throughout cities, simply being prepared to counter evil mage activity, should it come about, rather than actively hunting down mages who are minding their business.

There's a problem with that approach..it's reactive. Templars can only react after the mage has already become and abomination/ summond demons / used blood magic. The damage then it alreadydone. All the tempalrs can do is try to minimze it.
And we know amobinations and mages can endanger enitre villages -  even cities!


The reson mages are confined to hte Circles is that if any s*** happens, it happens within the tower, where it can be quickly contained. Minimal casualites...no civilian casualties.

What would happen in that sistem of yours?
How many vilalges and people would die to demons/mages/abominations? How long untill the people take matters into their own hands and kill any mage on sight?

The Circle protects mages as much as it protects the normal people.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Deylar wrote...

I'm actually tired of both.

Templars= royal douchebags on a high horse and a power trip

Mages= pussified, babies, who turn to demons, oh and Anders

:D:D:D

[Tirigon]

Sjofn wrote...


I can't really go into it in the spoiler-free forum, but there are definitely mages who are all mustache twirly in their embrace of blood magic, where it's not a last resort.

Yea but honestly. i don´t see anything wrong with blood magic as long as it uses your own blood.
(Except for cutting your wrists seems a bit emo:innocent:)

And frankly, just because Merril is nice doesn't make what she actually does okay or less dangerous.

Imo, she had valid reasons. And the danger is something she knew of and accepted. That is a course of action that should be respected. She even tells Anders that he´s stupid for thinking ANY spirits are trustworthy, which shows she is more aware of the dangers than most. She just chose to take the risk.
As one says, life always carries risks and sometimes they´re worht it.

The fact you think Avernnus is totes justified in his situation, though, sort of proves my point. If it's a mage doing it, well gosh he totally had his reasons and yeah it's sort of icky but how could you blame him? The templars have their reasons too, and are often in a situation where they are justified, but they're not forgiven nearly as easily because they don't shoot fire out of their hands. It's silly.

Now that´s just bad reasoning. There is a difference between what Avernus does - sacrificing wardens to defeat the blight, which is, by the way, SOMETHING THE WARDEN´S ARE ALL ABOUT, as Duncan keeps on saying whenever you question something they do, and developing powers used to help all of Thedas - and what the templars do - mindlessly slaughter mages for merely wanting to live in peace.

Not to mention that Avernus´s actions actually LEAD to something, unlike the templar´s ones.

[joriandrake]

the situation is nearly like racism:
declaring all mages criminals is not right but in RL not all minority people walk around with nuclear weapons who may or may not use them, and to be frank the power of magic is even more dangerous than nukes

When it became clear that Dragon Age will follow a more realistic point of view and world story it was obvious to me that no matter what mages and non-mages will have a war sooner or later, and no matter what the result of such war may be (either mages are once more subjugated or they become rulers of all) it will not solve the problem.

The only true way to solve this is a huge world changing event in which either magic power will be lost forever meaning mages lose their powers and no new ones will be born, or every single person will become able to use magic for some reason.

Kinda like the gun law of the USA, most nations don't allow citizens to own weapons but the USA pretty much allows everyone to have them.

[joriandrake]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Deylar wrote...

I'm actually tired of both.

Templars= royal douchebags on a high horse and a power trip

Mages= pussified, babies, who turn to demons, oh and Anders

:D:D:D

I think Varric said the same

[Tirigon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And we know amobinations and mages can endanger enitre villages -  even cities!

I suppose that´s why the Warden slays about 20 of them without problems in the circle, and Hawke slays much, much more than that all the time.......

How many vilalges and people would die to demons/mages/abominations? How long untill the people take matters into their own hands and kill any mage on sight?

The Circle protects mages as much as it protects the normal people.

I wonder, how is a mage that can be killed on sight be a threat to an entire city?







EDIT: I just played a certain sequence in the Fade, and regarding deals with deamons Hawke made the best comment ever:

It´s not worth it. Have you seen an abomination? They´re UGLY.

Epic:D:D:D:D

Modifié par Tirigon, 16 mars 2011 - 04:14 .

[the_one_54321]

Just immediately kill every child that shows potential for magic, Sparta style.

End of problem.

No more oppression. No more Templars. No more Chantry control of the Templars. No more danger to normal citizens. Everyone wins.

Now isn't that just a much easier and more effective solution?

[Lotion Soronarr]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Hach1 wrote...


It's nearly impossible to be a Templar supporter in Dragonage 2. Unless you're specifically selecting those choices just to see the outcome, or get the achievements.

I heavily disagree. You actually get double-crossed if you support the mages as the same guys who said that they deny blood magic and demons suddenly change minds and everyone of them becomes a traitor. 

siding with the mages = not allowing Meredith to kill them all for what Anders did and NOT freeing all the mages. I fail to see what that have to do with some other mages that double-crossed you.

Yes, it's friggin nearly impossible to be a templar supporter in DA2.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Tirigon wrote...

Jack of Wolves wrote...
The Chantry is the villain of this piece.

That is, with all my hate for templars, actually true. I´m still shocked from when, in DAO, you were told the Chantry makes templars lyrium-addicted to keep them in lane.

That´s freaking mafia methods....

Templars take lyrium to combat mages. This is a known fact by now.

The Chantry isn't the big boogeyman. the Grand Cleric of Kirkwall was the sanest person in the friggin town.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Tirigon wrote...

And frankly, just because Merril is nice doesn't make what she actually does okay or less dangerous.

Imo, she had valid reasons. And the danger is something she knew of and accepted. That is a course of action that should be respected. She even tells Anders that he´s stupid for thinking ANY spirits are trustworthy, which shows she is more aware of the dangers than most. She just chose to take the risk.
As one says, life always carries risks and sometimes they´re worht it.

I adore Merril, but she was dead wrong and dead stupid.
Look at the price she paid..look at how many deaths came as a result of her deals with demons.

[Lotion Soronarr]

[quote]Tirigon wrote...

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And we know amobinations and mages can endanger enitre villages -  even cities![/quote]
I suppose that´s why the Warden slays about 20 of them without problems in the circle, and Hawke slays much, much more than that all the time.......[/quote]

Gameplay and lore segragation.
Lore takes precedence over gameplay.

I do agree that the devs were stupid to throw 50 weak abomination at us insted of just 2-3 really powerfull ones.


[quote]
[quote]How many vilalges and people would die to demons/mages/abominations? How long untill the people take matters into their own hands and kill any mage on sight?

The Circle protects mages as much as it protects the normal people.

[/quote]

I wonder, how is a mage that can be killed on sight be a threat to an entire city?

By becoming possesed, tearing the veil, summoning deamons, etc...?

[zambingo]

Reply to TC/OP

The great thing about BioWare games is that there are valid reasons to support most factions in their games. Templars are not all bad. Playing the game you as the player should know this too. On the flip side there are plenty of examples also of why Mages aren't all to be feared. And yet again there are examples of why Mages and Templars should be feared. So there ya go, it's like life, any group of people will have good people, neutral people and bad people.

In relation to the game what one side does proves the other side right and vice versa. I wish I could slap them all around. Open palm style. I don't need to have a clenched fist. I wish patience and education could have proved change. Infiltration and the preaching of ideas that could breed change. But what I want is, as is most often the case, superseded by the actions of the fanatic... or someone with just more clout then me. Or both. lol

I chose the mages. But I'm really not happy with how things went down. Here's hoping expansions /or sequels provide me the opportunity to calm the storm and provide a more compassionate road forward.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Akka le Vil wrote...

benreeder2431 wrote...

Everyone I know who plays Dragon Age adore the mages. I have not met one templar supporter other than one attempting to get all the achievements, trophies, etc. I'm curious if you guys are actually out there. Personally, I'm a huge mage supporter. I don't even mind blood magic to a degree.

So, are you a full on mage supporter like me, a mage supporter who still thinks order is needed and blood magic is bad, or a templar supporter?

Templar supporter here.

As David Gaider once pointed, it's easy to take the PoV of mage, because we play godawful powerful heroes, whose friends are mages and who have the all-mighty powers of :
- Being the center of the story, which means we're immune to the apocalyptic destruction mages can wreck (for example, we'll always have a way to get out of a deadly situation).
- Having the quickload power, which means if we fail at getting out of the deadly situation, we can do it again.
- Not actually living in the game world, which means threat to our lives tend to generate more a chuckle of "yeah, they all say that, and they all end up dead !", while in real life, having someone threatening your life is quite scary - and I'm not talking about someone who can mind-control you.

I'm a roleplayer, which means I immerse myself in the game and like to imagine I'm "really" the hero. Having people who can destroy a village out of the blue, or who can mind-control you and other, is deadly frightening - unless you're completely lacking in any kind of common sense.

Most templars are actually incredibly selfless, dedicating their live to guard people who can be deadly menace, at the risk of their own existence. A true repressive society would simply kill anyone show any talent for magic. That Thedas' society bother to dedicate so much ressources to keep people in check but alive is already quite an humanistic feat.

but since we're given this possibility, what reason is there NOT to play the indomitable white knight who helps mages? 

[MDT1]

Why not side with the templers, true, they are extreme ideologists, but as we learn we learn, every mage in DA2 is in fact a blood mage or abomination.

The better question would be, why support one side at all?

[joriandrake]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Hach1 wrote...


It's nearly impossible to be a Templar supporter in Dragonage 2. Unless you're specifically selecting those choices just to see the outcome, or get the achievements.

I heavily disagree. You actually get double-crossed if you support the mages as the same guys who said that they deny blood magic and demons suddenly change minds and everyone of them becomes a traitor. 

siding with the mages = not allowing Meredith to kill them all for what Anders did and NOT freeing all the mages. I fail to see what that have to do with some other mages that double-crossed you.

Yes, it's friggin nearly impossible to be a templar supporter in DA2.

considering all the Orlais related things/remarks/ending video I am pretty sure DA3 will be based mainly in Orlais and the good guys will be then the Chantry/Templars as a contrast to what DA2 is about

[JabbaDaHutt30]

joriandrake wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Hach1 wrote...


It's nearly impossible to be a Templar supporter in Dragonage 2. Unless you're specifically selecting those choices just to see the outcome, or get the achievements.

I heavily disagree. You actually get double-crossed if you support the mages as the same guys who said that they deny blood magic and demons suddenly change minds and everyone of them becomes a traitor. 

siding with the mages = not allowing Meredith to kill them all for what Anders did and NOT freeing all the mages. I fail to see what that have to do with some other mages that double-crossed you.

Yes, it's friggin nearly impossible to be a templar supporter in DA2.

considering all the Orlais related things/remarks/ending video I am pretty sure DA3 will be based mainly in Orlais and the good guys will be then the Chantry/Templars as a contrast to what DA2 is about

don't want to come off as xenophobic... but if that's true, I hope not every character will have that english-speaking french accent in the game.

[joriandrake]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Hach1 wrote...


It's nearly impossible to be a Templar supporter in Dragonage 2. Unless you're specifically selecting those choices just to see the outcome, or get the achievements.

I heavily disagree. You actually get double-crossed if you support the mages as the same guys who said that they deny blood magic and demons suddenly change minds and everyone of them becomes a traitor. 

siding with the mages = not allowing Meredith to kill them all for what Anders did and NOT freeing all the mages. I fail to see what that have to do with some other mages that double-crossed you.

Yes, it's friggin nearly impossible to be a templar supporter in DA2.

considering all the Orlais related things/remarks/ending video I am pretty sure DA3 will be based mainly in Orlais and the good guys will be then the Chantry/Templars as a contrast to what DA2 is about

don't want to come off as xenophobic... but if that's true, I hope not every character will have that english-speaking french accent in the game.

I think having RL accents in the game is silly to begin with and its a waste of time and effort, not to mention many players like me don't even have english as their motherlanguage, and either don't care about accents, don't play the game in english to begin with, or don't realize the majority of various accents anyway, I would rather see that fully removed from DA

[Tirigon]

[quote]Lotion Soronnar wrote...

As one says, life always carries risks and sometimes they´re worht it.[/quote]

I adore Merril, but she was dead wrong and dead stupid.
Look at the price she paid..look at how many deaths came as a result of her deals with demons.
[/quote]

Well, so far noone died cos of it, maybe I need to get further into the game......
On a side not, I was a bit surprised about what she does in the fade, even when you´re in love with her, though.


Also deals with demons aren´t all that bad, considering that my canon wardens in DAO and Awakening were all bloodmages I would say that without bloodmagic ferelden would be ruled by the blight.

It´s always a matter how you use sh!t. Owning a rifle doesn´t make you dangerous or worthy of punishment. Using it to kill helpless children would do. But you could as well use it to do good (with magic even more than with a rifle cos of healing and all that).

But anyways, in another quest I just did Hawke, when others blame magic as usual, says something that I found rather remarkable:
[quote]It wasn´t magic what did this. It was the deed of an insane man, and he could have used a knife as well.[/quote]

[JamesX]

Nonoru wrote...

The circle in Ferelden was better than Kirkwall's.Greagor and Irving were working together while Meredith and Orsino were in open conflict.It couldn't finish in a good way.

Well Irving and Greagor are both good people.

Where Meredith and Orsino cannot be compared to those 2 for obvious storyline reasons.

Keep in mind people, this is a NO SPOILER forum.    

Surprised that this topic is even in this area of the forums.

Modifié par JamesX, 16 mars 2011 - 06:07 .

[joriandrake]

JamesX wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

The circle in Ferelden was better than Kirkwall's.Greagor and Irving were working together while Meredith and Orsino were in open conflict.It couldn't finish in a good way.

Well Irving and Greagor are both good people.

Where Meredith and Orsino cannot be compared to those 2 for obvious storyline reasons.

Keep in mind people, this is a NO SPOILER forum.    

Surprised that this topic is even in this area of the forums.

many people hate registering stuff and this is the only DA2 place to post for them

[Jack of Wolves]

"Templars take lyrium to combat mages. This is a known fact by now.

The Chantry isn't the big boogeyman. the Grand Cleric of Kirkwall was the sanest person in the friggin town"

1) Alistair himself kiboshes that first statement -- Lyrium is a shortcut, and a tool of control, not a necessity.

2) I'm not saying the Chantry is all bad. But when its zealots get involved.. and the problem? The Chantry has a *lot* of Zealots...

[zambingo]

^So do the mages.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Jack of Wolves wrote...

"Templars take lyrium to combat mages. This is a known fact by now.

The Chantry isn't the big boogeyman. the Grand Cleric of Kirkwall was the sanest person in the friggin town"

1) Alistair himself kiboshes that first statement -- Lyrium is a shortcut, and a tool of control, not a necessity.

2) I'm not saying the Chantry is all bad. But when its zealots get involved.. and the problem? The Chantry has a *lot* of Zealots...

New lore proves that Lyrium significantly boosts the powers of templars.

Like the Grey Wardens drink darkspawn blood, even knowing all that awaits them after that is either death or madness, so do templars take Lyrium, knowing the conequences well. And they do it to better safeguard the people.

Not a necessity? Lore showing templars surviving mage attacks only because of lyrium disprove that.

[the_one_54321]

The Chantry, via the Templars, only oppress mages. Their other governmental influences are unrelated to this specific issue.

Again, if all mages were just unilaterally killed as children none of this would be a problem at all. There would be no need for Templars and the Chantry would be robbed of much of its power and excuse to be a bully.

[BallaZs]

Aesieru wrote...

In the logic sense yes, in how they're portraying it, no.

^This