2797 réponses à ce sujet

[Nynshari]

Honestly, I don't have time to read through all of the posts on this thread, so I'm sure I'm probably just repeating what others have said.  Sorry about that.  I usually don't post in forums at all (I'm a bit of a lurker), but I just wanted to put my 2 cents out there.

DA2 was not as good as DAO, but it didn't suck ass, either.  For example, the combat system was much better.  

The biggest problem, though, was the over-simplification of ... well ... everything.  It lacked depth and an emotional connection to companions, to the story, and to the world at large.  And that's really, ultimately, what playing a fantasy RPG is all about.  For example:
  
 -  Not being able to just sit down and talk to your companions was probably the worst thing.  By the end of what was supposed to be a 10 year campaign, you know only the very basics about your companions, not even enough to justify calling them your friends.  By taking out the ability to freely converse with companions you took out a large chunk of the RP in RPG.  Fighting is fun, but RPGs are just as much, if not more, about interaction between characters.  Slimming this down was a very bad call.  The companions in DA2 were barely even 2 dimensional, and it made the story 2 dimensional as well.  The ability to converse with your companions and to get to know them was what made the companions in DAO, and the game itself, really, so memorable - love them or hate them, you definitely remember them.  I want to be able to go to Anders' clinic or Fenris' mansion and talk to them whenever I want to talk to them, just like in DAO.  
 -  Why no descriptions or histories behind items anymore?  In a good RPG, the story behind an item is almost as important as the item itself.  The item descriptions and histories in DAO were great.  I loved learning about the world and the items as I went through.  Everyone wants their character to have items with good stats - but it's the story behind the item that truly makes it worthwhile to have.  Bring back item descriptions and histories.  And, please, junk the junk list.
 -  While I'm at it, bring back finding history books and other things as well.    
 -  Instead of playing one large, epic story, I felt like I was playing 3 DLC strung together.  The individual sections weren't long enough to really get emotionally involved with the characters or the game in general, and there wasn't enough connection between the sections to keep what little emotional attachment had developed.   Varric's story helped set the scene for the next section, but since your character didn't really grow into it, you were basically just plopped there, read a background, and told to begin - at the very least, some cinematic scenes of things your character went through in those intervening years would have helped a bit.  Your relationship with your companions had supposedly deepened over the intervening years, but as the PC its hard to just jump in there like that - it's like playing the movie 50 First Dates.  I like the idea of a story that arches over such a long period of time, but the way it was done just didn't flow well.  It wasn't one large, epic story - it was 3 separate stories that barely had anything to do with one another strung together with massive multi-year amnesia gaps in memory for the PC.
 -  The companion side quests were okay.  The other side quests, however ... sucked.  Many of them were just "Oh, I found this item and just psychically knew it was yours.  GIve me money."  No story, not even a quest, really.  I felt like I was working for the Kirkwall Lost and Found.  
 -  And, of course, what very, very many have already complained about: the continuous area re-use.

These are the types of things - memorable characters, memorable conversations, memorable relationships, memorable items, memorable quests, memorable places - that make the stories interesting and make fantasy RPGs worth playing.

All that said, DA2 wasn't horrible.  It was just extremely 2 dimensional.  As I said before, it lacked depth and an emotional connection to companions, to the story, and to the world at large.  And that's really, ultimately, what playing a fantasy RPG is all about.

I hope I wasn't rude in this post; if I was, then I apologize.  I'm actually looking forward to DA3.  I'm looking forward to seeing the best of both games brought together.  Despite the problems, I think y'all did a great job on DAO and an ok job on DA2.  Just take more time with DA3 and make it ... perfect.  I mean, that's not too much to ask, right?   

Okay.  I've babbled on way too much, and likely about things other people have already said.  Sorry for repeating.

[Jamie_edmo]

I may be late to the party and Bioware may have all the feedback they need and have stopped reading this, but apart from all the other issues that have been raised e.g: reused areas, disappointing story/ending (opinion based), companions not as good as origins (opinion based again), flat voice acting from male hawke, combat etc.,

the biggest problem I had was the tone and how jarring the shift was from origins to DA2.
For me origins interested me with its lotr tone and style, some may find it generic, but i felt that it was backed up with great atmosphere and lore, and after finishing DA2 I just found it to be a lot more soulless compared with origins. I appreciate the fact that bioware opted to try a different style of story but I just never got into the mage conflict and I just didnt feel as though the stakes where as high compared to the blight

Another issue I had was with the interface. I really liked the journal in origins the way it was drawn to look as though its an actual book, same with when you're reading a quest board and when you accepted a quest an animation would happen were you would stamp the note, whereas DA:2's interface was quite bland and the main menu was the same as the mass effect's rotational menu, this is more of a personal taste I suppose but it just gives the game a more "attention-to-detail" feel.

Origins was a successful game, it had some problems but for the most part was great and had a huge fan-base (at least on these forums anyway) and to totally change it in just over a year felt a little strange and unnecessary, I mean I don't blame bioware for trying to appeal to more people and make more money that's life, but I just feel that we who really liked origins were taken for granted a bit.
I don't want to sound rude or anything but it just seems as though bioware saw complaints and went too far when changing them eg: such as the attacks feeling like your issuing orders and waiting for it to happen, which I did think needed tweaking, but it seems like the developers saw that, grabbed it and ran a mile, just imo obviously, I do hope DA3 will revert back to origins style as unlikely as that seems, but I will wait and see after being disappointed with DA2 I probably wont pre-order like I did with this game.

Just to add I did appreciate some of the changes, like the improved graphics and better companion gift mechanics. Overall i'd give the game a 7/10, its not a bad game its just flawed and pales in comparison to origins

Modifié par Jamie_edmo, 03 juillet 2011 - 06:41 .

[Vincentdante]

Personnally I quite liked DA2 but I didn't think it was on the same level as origins. I shall list my pros and cons on what I thought of DA2 and hopefully it will help the devs in future installments.

Pros-
-Solid chatacters, I enjoyed hanging out with merril and varic etc.

-voice acting for hawke and company was top notch.

-I liked how warriors and rogues felt different to one another and a more useful class overall. Compared to how they were to mages in origins.

-I liked the new talents and the interface. Because you could branch off you could avoid most redundant ones. The overall talents and the descriptions were less confusing than some in origins as well. (It took me so long to work out in which situaltions I needed shield defence/wall/cover and cover was pretty useless overall it turned out).

Cons-
-Partner AI could get a bit frustrating sometimes when they ignore your direct input in favour of set tactics, I would have preferred if my commands too precidence.

-I miss being able to change to a top down perspective of the battlefield.

-I didn't like being limited to two weapon choices for warrior and rogues. It would have been nice to have the freedom to make a duel wielding warrior again.

-I didn't like being limited to playing only as a human character. I don't think you need full blown origin stories with each game but the freedom to select your race would be nice. Why couldn't some surface dwarves with an adopted human mage sister or a family of elvan refugees have fled from lothering instead?

-There weren't any real decisions to be had in this game, With origins you could reach many different outcomes to many of the situations presented to you (for example you could ally with the elves and kill the werewolves as is asked or you could turn on them and help the wolves, there was even an easier compromised fight if you played your cards right). While in DA2 the outcome is set in stone regardless of how you proceed.

Those are all the ones I could think off but it's nice to have my oppinion down were the devs will hopefully acknoweledge it's existence .

Modifié par Vincentdante, 04 juillet 2011 - 03:49 .

[diaglyph]

Well I just finished DA2, and enjoyed it.

The negatives I could think of:
- repetitive areas (all caves look same, etc)
- the "spawning" of enemies, as others have mentioned
- the oversimplification of various aspects of the game, compared to DA:O (like the armour management, see below)
- a bit neutral on the whole "glyph" shown for each dialogue option - was that really necessary to show what that dialogue option represented? it took out the element of "surprise" regarding the dialogue options (or this could've been a gameplay option, to hide the dialogue glyphs)
- did not like having party members' armour restricted - found it extremely annoying that I could not equip them with stuff I found along the way, so many wasted armour items
- would've liked more chat options with party members (seems this was simplified as well)
- way too many loading screens!! (as a side note: I do hope DA3 has a large world to explore, make it a "streaming" world, kinda like how a lot of MMOs are, instead of compartmentalised areas that you have to wait to load up)
- character profile not uploading properly to social.bioware.com

The positives:
- I really liked the combat system, it felt better than DA:O
- the interface seems a bit easier to use as well
- I enjoyed the character stories and their quests
- the banter between chars when running around was amusing need more of this!
- the art style was brilliant, the creature design was excellent, to me, in general, it had an almost drawn or painted look to it (especially some of the environs)

Overall, I enjoyed the game

[aiden2k]

I actually quite enjoyed DA2, I'm quite surprised by all the negativity I've read; none of the issues occurred to me until after i read reviews.
In hindsight, it did feel a little lazy in the construction, but the plot and mechanics of the whole thing where wonderful (Brilliant combat and i never saw the turns coming in the plot ).

The key issue, i think, was that it was a different beast to the original in a lot of respects and not what the fans were expecting. Also, Origins was a hard act to follow

So overall, i enjoyed DA2, not as much as Origins, probably on par with Awakening. Although im pretty biased, i cant think a bad thing about Bioware since Baldurs gate

Modifié par aiden2k, 05 juillet 2011 - 10:35 .

[telephasic]

I'm coming along late to the party, due to video card issues stopping me from playing the game for quite some time.

I find Dragon Age II a fair game, but not a great one. Certainly not the worst Bioware game (I'd rate Neverwinter Nights far worse), but I'd say out of the core RPGs of Bioware, it was by far the most lacking in terms of enjoyment.

The bottom line for me is combat in the game just isn't fun.

Although a bit slow, I thought combat worked great in DA:O, in that combat overall worked great, except for a few fights like Uldred, where you just had to hack away for 15 minutes doing nothing much. Strategic placement of your parties was often key, which I enjoyed, and there were a lot of segments where you really needed to think things out (the Fade, or the Blood Magic house in Denerim).

In contrast, 95% of combat in DA2 plays the same. It's as much DPS as possible until the respawns stop. If you have a powerful enemy, you may want to focus fire on them first. Oddly, enemy mages usually don't do much damage at all (although they love to teleport and hence are often the last thing standing despite your best intentions). I'm generally more scared when I see a backstabbing rogue. Still, since nearly every encounter plays identically, they are all boring. I often find myself quitting the game when I come upon a random encounter in the middle of a quest line, not because I find it hard, but because I don't want more friggin combat getting in the way of plot development. The only counter-examples are things like the ancient rock wraith, which was a whole lot of fun, and made me think of what could have been. Why didn't the game have dozens of encounters like this?

Everything else, I think, was forgivable. Yes, the game seems unfinished due to short development time, but other games I enjoyed very much, like KOTOR2, had the same issue, but stuck to original combat mechanics, and hence were far more enjoyable for what they were.

I'll say I thought there were some big plusses. I think some of the simplification worked well (less potions clogging your inventory, the rune system makes a lot more sense now). I also felt like many of the side-quests were done with far more care than DA:O. If the random objects you find and then somehow know to return to someone were left out, it would have been near perfect in this aspect. Especially because secondary quests actually do often have repercussions later in the game.

[Bearclaw]

Da2 is far better than DA:o, just shortage of dev time i guess. I will buy any DLC as soon as its released regardless.. Ok so spirit successor of Baldurs Gate could be true.. now they just need to add everything else outside the city of BG itself so to speak. Heck reuse areas from dao is better than using same areaso over and over agaon, we need a dark misty forest.

I also would like to think this "area goto next area loading" is abit old .. we need a nonstop rolling of the game world .. let game load next 500 metres in this way we could explore a landscape of really vast proportions, add in a hvy random factor here, like diablo style you could play the game and it will never be the same every time you enter new areas.. this for wilderness exploration. Back to basics in other words.. get back to game roots. As in all other games like EVE/masseffect which isnt at all a vast space, its just tons of 'rooms' with warp gates that acts like load next areas.. this is boring and old..

[Gibb_Shepard]

Also, for the love of god, please keep Hawke's voice relatively consistent. This isn't a problem for F!Hawke, but M!Hawke had a severe problem with his voice. When picking varying dialogue options, his voice is so different that it feels like i'm playing a different character, and it completely ruins my view on who Hawke is.

Boulton did a terrific job, but the constant pitch changes really made my Hawke a bipolar mad man. Even if i stuck to ONE personality dialogue throughout the game, there would still be countless moments where his voice will randomly go from the lovable tone of Alistair to the brooding tone of Fenris.

I realize that he probably did this to make it so each personality sounded different and felt like a different character, but it didn't quite work out that way. Please, in the future, keep the VA's voice consistent, a sarcastic Hawke can sound angry without his voice mimicking Fenris's.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 06 juillet 2011 - 03:08 .

[EXiTBeats]

I'd like to be able to have a full blown conversation with my companions whenever i like again, made it feel a bit more involving. I also liked being able to build a character from scratch... but still have a voice, but keep the new combat system and conversation wheel. if in da:3 i can be my warden again with my old companions nothing else will matter though...

[EXiTBeats]

Modifié par EXiTBeats, 06 juillet 2011 - 08:49 .

[Cruehitman]

First off, I want to say that I played through DA:O, DA:A, and several of the DLC fully twice. I sank over 180 hours into that, and could not wait until DA 2 came out. After reading all the horrible things about it, even though I bought it day one, I waited for awhile to play it. Well, I have finally completed the game, and NEEDED to talk about it with fellow DA lovers and players. Here are my main bullet points:

1) Is it fun? Overall, I'd have to say a sort of yes. As a RPG, its a pretty good time and I got a lot of bang for the buck. My one playthrough lasted over 55 hours. I finished with just over 80% of all trophies and I felt like overall it was worth the money. HOWEVER, I will say this much... for me, there is no replay value. As I noted above, I sank over 180 hours into the first DA and it's expansion. Even after that, I will gladly play it again a third time. The game is a thrilling adventure, in a huge world, where I felt like I was on a huge quest of epic proportions. Even a few hours in, I knew what my main objective was and felt very connected to the story. DA 2??? Over 20 hours in, I still couldn't really tell you what was really going on or what my main goal was. DA 2 felt more like a chore so often. And that's sad. I can not and will not play through it again, regardless of what might change.

2) Streamlined = more aggravation. It's been mentioned a billion times, but the truth is the truth. I can't STAND the new inventory system or look. I play on the PS3, and I LOVED the old system. You click L2 and you can access everything including your inventory right from the wheel. Now, you have to hit start to pause the game and then you can access the inventory system. On the first game, just hit the select button, and you are in your inventory automatically, and can access ALL info, including skill sets, stats, inventory and items, and of course codex, and all quests. Once again, the supposed streamlined system actually makes things more of a headache and requires more button presses. Kind of ridiculous for a system that is "streamlined". Quests are now in one seperate area, inventory in another, skill sets in another, and again, you have to hit the start button now and pause it to access it all. NOT a good idea. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE go back to the old look and accessibility!

3) A giant world to explore vs a city. WOW... I don't know who thought this was a good idea, but it was NOT. I spent over 70 hours in my first playthrough of DA:O, but I was constantly experiencing new sites, new adventures, new areas to explore. VERY WELL DONE! The sequel gives me 55 hours in one place??? I was about to fall asleep half the time! The wonders of traveling though HUGE wooded areas, ancient ruins, cities and towns, castles, icy snow capped mountains, etc kept me glued to my tv throughout the original. The sequel gives me a bunch of... dirty city roads, clean city roads, busy city roads, empty city roads, etc etc etc all in one place. Again... WOW!

4) Campsite vs Scattered all over... I loved being able to "set up camp" whenever I wanted with my old team. Everyone was in one place, so it was easy to talk with them all, and get to know them. Each character you could talk to whenever you wanted, and they had a HUGE wealth of information, opinions, news, quests, etc. It made things feel like a real unit, and its what made it so easy to fall in love with the characters in the first game. This game... For the love of all that is holy... they're all over the damn town!! So if I want to talk with each one (if the game even allows it!), I have to go through 20 loading screens... walk in place A, talk, leave place A, go to place B, talk, leave place B, go to different area of map completely, walk in place C, talk, leave place C........ and on and on.... if you wanted streamlined, the campsite made things fast, easy, AND it was fantastic! I want to build a camp again!!

5) Gifts vs Gifts? I enjoyed being able to find tons of gifts in the first game and expansion that I could give to my teammates! The sequel has 1-2 for each character and that's it. Small thing, but again, lame.

6) Original vs Repeat... I won't spend long on this, since it's been beaten to death, but this game includes the laziest game design I have EVER seen for a game! Wow... every warehouse the same... every cave the same... I laughed hysterically at the "sewers"... what sewers??? They looked the same as every other underground dwelling. Unbelievable and extremely embarassing. There was more originality and new stuff to explore in 10% of DA:O than all of DA 2 put together.

7) Random encounters vs random nothingness... I loved the little encounters you'd sometimes come across in the first game. I actually spent some time running from location to location just to try and trigger some of those random encounters... Here... I got two "random" events that were just laughable. Again, the first game made it appear as if you were really traveling around and anything could happen. Here... I never felt like anything could happen. Way to kill another good thing.

8) Equipment vs equipment or lack thereof... Why for the love of God did they remove the ability to upgrade and give my teammates new equipment. That was a MAJOR part of the fun with the first game and expansion. Every piece of equipment could have the potential to open up new possibilities for each team member. Who would I give what to? Now... ZZZZZZZZZZ... sorry, fell asleep there. Now it's just stupid. Not being able to equip my team was a HUGE let down! And not only that, but 2/3 of the equipment Drevin could get was also useless because I wasn't a Rogue or Mage. So most of the equipement is useless, and you can't equip your friends. I can only shake my head at the lameness. One quick final note... "torn trousers"??? "moth-eaten scarfs"??? Really??? Looting itself got a major downgrade period. They managed to ruin looting, equipment gathering, etc.

9) Romance vs the worst "sex" scenes ever created... After playing through DA:O, I felt a connection with not only my character, but actually felt as if he and Leliana were a real couple. I could feel the connection and "love" grow throughout the course of the game through their conversations, and when they finally consumated their relationship, even though they kept underwear on, it at least looked like a sex scene and the relationship felt real and connected. DA 2 felt like nothing. I ended up successfully romancing Isabela, but even near the very end of the game, she was still talking about banging some other guys and how much fun it would be, yet we were in a "relationship"... and the sex scene... HAHAHAHAHA... They fall on the bed fully clothed, and the camera pans upward... WOW. Ridiculous... and it never NEVER felt like a relationship. It's just another example of how they removed all the real closeness you could feel and get with your friends and teammates. After 55 hours in this sequel, the relationship felt fake as hell, and I still couldn't care less about most of my team. Just 20 hours in, I loved Alistair, Morrigan, Leliana, etc... the dialogue was great, i felt like I really was getting to know them, and I felt as if we were truly in this together... you NEVER get that feeling in DA 2.

10) Silent Hero vs Speaking Champion... Unlike a lot of people here, I had no problem with the fact that my lead character had a voice. In face, it was nice and I kind of enjoyed it... HOWEVER, I did NOT like they way they stripped dialogue down to basically nothing. Now I have no problem with the Mass Effect style dialogue wheel. I really don't. But even using that, why can't it include a ton of options that I could use whenever I wanted. Again, in the first game, I could wipe out a hoard of Darkspawn in a cave, and then turn to Wynne or my girlfriend Leliana and talk with her right there on the spot. That is now completely gone. If I try to speak with someone now, they'll just sit there looking stupid saying something like "we don't have time for this" or "let's get going". That's it??? It's no wonder why I never felt close to any of my team this time around. Unless there was an event or quest going on, I was forbidden from talking with my friends. You can combine the best of both worlds you know. I have no problem with  the wheel and spoken hero from this point on IF IF IF, they can make it feel like real conversations with a TON of choices, and I can speak to them whenever I feel like! Otherwise, they're just lame people that follow me around. And THAT I don't like.

11) Real Choices for Companions vs Stuck the way they are Companions... They've even dumbed down the skill set trees. In the first game, I loved creating not only my character, but my companions into whatever kind of warrior, rogue, or mage I wanted. Now, so many options are for Hawke ONLY. That's just lame and took all of the fun out of fine tuning my team. For a small example, the Berserker and Templar and Reaver options are ONLY available for Hawke. This killed a lot of the motivation I had for leveling up my characters. Again, instead of fun and strategic even, it became a chore. And the dumbing down of certain things like lockpicking... you have to put points into cunning, and every ten points unlocks a new lockpicking level... Really? Pathetic when I think about it. And what happened to little cool touches like picking pockets? Sigh..........

12) Opening Dialogue choices vs pre-determined dialogue... Another little thing I loved about the first one, building up my coercion stats to open up different options for my dialogue which could even effect quests and open up possible quests. Now........ gone.

13) Epic Story vs Political Story... Some people say that the storyline for the first DA:O was pretty generic. Regardless, I felt a small part of this huge and epic storyline, and I truly felt that the things I was doing was making a difference. It felt like a struggle which it should feel like. That's what made it so epic and rewarding. The sequel is basically people that can't get along, and spend the ENTIRE game ****ing and moaning and whining. There was no motivation. What was my purpose? It felt small and lost all the charm, and removed the journey aspect.

I have a lot more, but, that's it for now. I have played a TON of RPGs throughout my 37 year life. And i can honestly say that Bioware created my favorite one of all time with Dragon Age Origins. The epic storyline, the huge world, tons of great sidequests, so many great things to see, the best companions in all of gaming, great dialogue, actually being able to feel the friendships and romances grow, and on and on. I have no problem with sinking another 90 hours into it and it's expansion pack. I'm just at a loss then, when I see what is quite possibly the greatest RPG out there, being reduced to T-H-I-S. Everything great about the first game was actually removed in this sequel. This game should not have the Dragon Age name on it. I understand upgrading, moving forward, and trying some new things to BETTER the experience. Instead, they sat around and thought it was great to remove everything epic, fun and strategic about it to give us this instead. I have a special place in my gaming heart for Leliana, Morrigan, Alistair, etc. I couldn't give a crap about anyone in this sequel. That is not good!

Look... overall, the game is ok. It's worth a playthrough one time.There are some good things. The "updated" graphics are fine... the combat system is fun... some of the quests are pretty good.  But I would suggest renting it, or borrowing it, or waiting a little longer and buying a used copy. I can only hope, and pray that Dragon Age 3 will fix this mess. Bring back my Hero of Ferelden! You can give him a voice... that's fine. Just open things back up! Bring back the epic DEEP feel of the first game. I want to know my companions... form real bonds and have real romance for them. Open things back up. Let me tweak their full skills, let me equip them all the way. I would gladly sink another 100 hours or more in the next game if it was more like the first. But... I will not make the same mistake I made this time. I will not pre-order it or buy it the day it comes out. This time, I will wait and see what things are like. If it's like a great amped up version of Origins, count me in for endless hours of play and replayability. If it's like Dragon Age 2, I think it'll be time for me to move onto other pastures. And that would truly be a shame!

[Elhanan]

One item of note that I do not recall mentioning is that I hope to see more of the unique bosses such as Dragons in future games.

The Dragon encounters seen in all DA games are generally ones I have strongly embraced, and wished to replay frequently. There seemed to be more of these implemented in DAO, and encountered less frequently as the game has advanced. While DAA and DA2 both included some special encounters, striving to create memorable and replayable encounters of a major theme is highly encouraged.

[m00nsh1ne]

I throw in my 2 cents. I didn't read all the topics so I apologize if I throw up a lot of repeats but here we go.

I loved the advancements to combat. It looked a lot better and felt more fluid. However I did despise the enemies just randomly appearing. Ran into too many instances where I was trying to find someone cause he spawned in a weird place and was stuck/hidden. Stick to a fixed number of enemies and be done with it.

Bring back XP given per enemy. It was a much more rewarding system then just awarding XP after the battle. I killed 15 guys and only got 105XP?!?! WTH!

The environment got very static as the game went along. I heard that Kirkwall was going to change as the game went along but there was never a new building or buildings removed or new market areas. I just can not imagine a large Metro area not changing at all in 6 or so years.

But the biggest problem I had with the game was the LACK of decision making I had. In almost all instances no matter what I chose the outcome was always the same. Choices and consequences are what put BW at the top of RPG market and with this game they took a major step backwards. I mean even the "BIG DECISION" at the end resulted in the EXACT same thing happening. If you take away my choice then what have you left me with? If you wanted to tell a story a certain way then you should've built the second one as something other than an RPG cause RPG's without choice died a long time ago.

Modifié par m00nsh1ne, 07 juillet 2011 - 12:04 .

[S Seraff]

1) Loot. I have a thing against having to loot in general - finding useles junk in barrels, HAVING to search for barrels and boxes when playing, basically stealing stuff from otherwise allies. pops me out of the game. i would like loot to mean something, to come off bodies or be part of stashes or buyable in shops.
2) maps, of course
3) i have trouble with equipment, having to choose between appearance and abilities. i would like some "tailoring" options, at least with color ala ME2. I feel like i'm trying to fit in someone else's clothes, which is in stark contrast to the companion characters, whose garb is extremely individualized. I'd love if you gave us what you give them - aesthetic control over our look, with the chance to buy upgades like we do for them?
4) class. i realize bioware has fully embraced pigeonholing, but would it be so bad to let us choose between rogue, fighter and mage class features? i was disappointed when i realized the Hawke depicted in the teaser trailer, one who used both magic and warrior abilities, wasnt a a valid option in the game. i would love to bleed over the boundaries of class.
5) i love the companion characters, and thank you for same-sex romance options

[Savber100]

Another big weakness?

There;s a lack of understanding the current audience of DA.

Currently, a vast amount of your players are in for DA for the stats and a deeper RPG experience more akin to Baldur's Gate than Mass Effect. Yet, in wanting to gain the recognition of the ME crowd, you greatly estranged your core audience. ME was great because it understood what the audience wants from a shooter/RPG hybrid . DA team failed because the goal was to gain a bigger audience rather than making a worthy succesor to a game that has attracted the love of the tactical/stat-loving crowd. This group has become somewhat estranged by Bioware as ME have continued on a more actiony route, alienating them to believe that Bioware is forgetting her roots. The release of DA2's simplified mechanics compared to DA:O has not encouraged them.

Remember your roots and be unique, DA team. Strive to make a great game worthy of Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment, letting the game sale for itself.

The DA team has to learn the audience they know have. Already there's a call that Bioware is rejecting her complex RPG roots. DA is and should be Bioware's proof that they have not forgotten.

Modifié par Savber100, 07 juillet 2011 - 05:16 .

[Ronin2006]

Here's something constructive:

Don't lock threads just because they are negative towards your game. You made a bad game, and people complain, and when they do, it's as though you don't want to listen.

Sure, you have your terms of use for this forum, but from what I can see, most people have been following them.

A topic that compares TW2 to DA2 is still very much about DA2. You could have learned a lot from that game, and it's a good anchor point for criticism of yours. But instead you seem intent to ignore it. You're losing a lot of customers each day, and judging from your reactions, don't seem to want to keep them.

Bioware employees reading this, I fear for your current employment status because unless you listen, and I mean listen to all your customers, including those who are most negative, then you won't be making any games for Bioware again as your current business practices and direction are so poorly conceived that you won't be able to sustain yourselves for much longer.

Nearly everyone in the registered users forum is a legitimate paying customer. Nobody bought this game wanting to hate it, but hate it they did. You have egos so large that you seem unable to fathom that perhaps your tastes aren't in line with a lot of your customers and it is that ignorance that will lead to the loss of your own jobs.

It would be a shame for a once great organisation to dissappear, but if it does, it'll be your own fault.

[John Epler]

Ronin, the rules apply to everyone equally.

I've locked just as many positive threads as negative threads - if they don't follow the rules, they get locked.

Simple as that.

[Ronin2006]

JohnEpler wrote...

Ronin, the rules apply to everyone equally.

I've locked just as many positive threads as negative threads - if they don't follow the rules, they get locked.

Simple as that.

John, you know as well as I just how ridiculous and untrue that statement is.

You act as though there is consistency across these forums, when a blind monkey can tell otherwise.

Remember this thread? 

http://social.biowar...5/index/6570330

It was made four months ago.  It's overall fairly positive and full of praise, and I don't have a problem with it.  But here's the thing.  It laid dormant for months, until the OP randomly decided to necro it.  People then went on to post on it for the next five days without any sign of the mods to clean it up.  Many posters made comments regarding this, and I'm more than convinced a mod probably came across it, considering how quick you are to lock a negative thread, and yet nothing was done about it.

Then compare this to one of mine:

http://social.biowar...5/index/6882739

It's nearly as old as the earlier thread.  Also, on topic.  But quite negative, although I'm hopeful that you can take something constructive out of it, as it's a reflection of my feelings as a consumer (and looking at the posts, a lot of other consumers too).  Instead what happened?  I went on to make a post on it after a few months and within a day it gets locked on the basis that old threads shouldn't be resurrected.

Coincidence?  I don't think so.  There are countless other examples of such behaviour from your fellow mods, and I don't think the behaviour is just a result of incompetence.

Anyway, it's to Bioware's own detriment to ignore the negative feedback of this game because I don't need Bioware, but Bioware needs people like me, the paying customer.

Let's face it, the only positive threads you lock are those that either turn to mudslinging or to another topic entirely.  But hey, at least you're not as bad as Mr Woo, I'll give you that much.

Today, you closed down a thread that was very much about your own game, without vitriol and quite constructive.  Something that you, and your organisation could take note of.  Sure, there's negativity, but people were being civil and constructive and most importantly, barring one post, on topic as to a general discussion concerning DA2.  Hopefully, Bioware is fully aware that the majority of the negativity on these forums exists for the purpose of information.  Many customers are unhappy John, and they are letting you know in no uncertain terms, not because they hate you personally, but because they want Bioware to understand their concerns and make a better game.  Not brush away these concerns, or try to hide them.  (Don't even get me started on the innovation rubbish your superiors have been touting)

Modifié par Ronin2006, 08 juillet 2011 - 06:04 .

[Firky]

IMO, it'd be cool if this particular thread was kept free of criticism about the forum itsself. (It's actually a really interesting thread to read because it is one of the few that doesn't go off topic.)

Perhaps there is a better spot for putting forum feedback, or this might be more suited to a PM?

[John Epler]

I'm not going to argue the point.

If you have a problem with the moderation, let Chris Priestly know. If you have a problem with a specific thread, let a moderator know. We're not omniscient. For the majority of us, we do the forum thing in addition to our regular duties, and not as part of them.

But this is not the thread for that discussion. So let's stop it - if you have issues, please feel free to IM me.

[Mikester99]

 I would like to start out by saying that I AM a HUGE Bioware and DA
org/awaking fan,  and since this game is
called DA 2 I am compelled to campair. Sadly I generally feel the DA2
experience was a big disappointment, here are my top 10 reasons

ALOT of what made DA ORG. A
great game had been stripped away from DA2 making it only an ok game.

The attributes, abilities
interface and items icons seem completely sterile and boring, it seems
this has been rushed. 

The main story lines are good,
but lack depth, and the story lines in general become very repetitive.

It doesn’t seem like the
choices you make to interact or answer NPC’s have that much of an impact
on the storyline as a whole.

Companions, though at times
charming and funny, just seem to be bad copy of The DA Org. ones.  Many of the jokes, comments, answers
and quests seem to have gone from interesting, adult themed in DA, to
childish remarks and issues that you would find in a schoolyard in DA2.

Unchangeable companion armour
is a sham.

The combat system has become
too hack and slash and much less tactical for an RPG game.

Kirkwall is a fun city, but for
an entire game??  The game takes
place over 10 years and in development promised the city would evolve. But
the only evolvement was a few banners hanging around.  I would love to see much more Cities,
forests, ruins as in DA origins.

As mentioned in an earlier
post, the enemy spawning system in DA2 really removes the feeling of RPG.

The crafting and gathering
system is virtually non-existent and completely useless, It seems
implemented just because, they “HAD” to have one and not because it is a
part of the game

 Generally in Contrast to DA org. the game seems to have been “dumbed down” and Rushed, to
try and appeal to a larger audience and increase sale numbers instead of making
a game worthy of the DA franchise.  

Modifié par Mikester99, 08 juillet 2011 - 12:11 .

[Beerfish]

Ronin2006 wrote...


John, you know as well as I just how ridiculous and untrue that statement is.

You act as though there is consistency across these forums, when a blind monkey can tell otherwise.

I think some people fail to realize just how unbelievably lucky they are that the current BioMods are so massively lenient and bend over backwards to not appear to lock just negative threads.  With the sheer volume of utter crap that gets post on both of the non spoiler forums any reasonable person would be praising them to the heavens.  Both of these non spoiler DA2 forums are a classic case of 'give them an inch and they'll take a mile' mentality.

The last person in the world you should be bleating about unfairness is Mr. Eppler.

With this particular thread here for a purpose most people would and should be locking each and every 'i am disappointetd' thread.

Private company.
Private forums.
Rules of posting apply.
Moderating a forum is NOT an easy thing to do.  (Especially ones that are half filled with idiotic rants.)
Posting on a private forum is not a right.

[Thessair]

I’m about a third of the way through my fourth consecutive play-through and feel I have enough experience now to chime in on this thread.

 Pros:

 - Characters. I really enjoyed most of my companions and from what information we were given it seems they had interesting motivations and back stories. The exceptions, in my opinion, being Carver and Fenris who were
both just whiny emo gits.

-  The smaller-scale story. I know a lot of people were unhappy that the plot of DA2 wasn’t as epic as DA:O, but I thought it was a nice mid-point between the world-shattering story of DA:O and what will hopefully be the world-shattering story of DA3.

- Crafting resources. Although I wish I could craft things myself, having set resources to develop items is better than me needing to defoliate the area around Kirkwall as I did Ferelden.  (There is nary an elfroot to be found in that post-Blight land.)

- “You handle this.” I liked having the opportunity to hand a conversation over to one of my companions to deal with. In particular, I very much enjoyed Varric and Aveline getting a chance to shine.

- Combat. The battles had a more visceral feel this time around and I don’t lament the loss of the more ‘tactical’ aspects of the combat system. I usually prefer not to micromanage my group anyway so I had a blast with the new pace of the fights. The over-the-top, cinematic character animations were entertaining to a degree although I was tempted to look for wires when my rogue was flying all over the battlefield. I certainly enjoy watching my mage fight more now than I did before.

- Voiced protagonist. While I liked the large variety of conversation options in DA:O, it seemed like there was a big void in conversations whenever my Warden was taking part. Jo Wyatt did an outstanding job and managed to keep most of the dialogue attitudes pretty consistent.  

- Party banter. I mentioned it before, but it’s worth mentioning again. The evolution of the conversations between characters was a delight to listen to, especially characters that started off conflicted and eased into each other, such as Aveline and Isabela. Plus, it was hard not to smile every time Varric called Merrill ‘Daisy’.

- Relationships! The lack of dialogue after starting one was kind of disappointing, but I liked how everyone seemed to act completely differently in forging a relationship. Isabela, in particular, I though advanced nicely. Also, I was pleased that [a certain person] had a relationship of her own and wasn’t simply standing around waiting for me to make a pass at her.

- Abilities/Spells web. I like the variety in the way things played out as opposed to Cone (Cold, Fire, Electricity) and AoE (Cold, Fire, Lightning) in spells, for example. I also liked skills like Pick Locks/Disarm Traps being stat-based and being able to upgrade a spell or ability.

- The cast. Pretty much brilliant voice acting all around.

Cons:

- Lack of art assets. From item images to flavor text and reused dungeons, there was a distinct lack of atmosphere in parts of the game. As some have stated, I wasn’t actually as bothered by the reused areas as much as the universal mini-maps for those locations. The art that was there (spells, abilities, etc) seemed flat and minimalist compared to the DA:O assets. 

- Lack of character dialogue. I loved the party banter and the limited interactions I had with them, but I would have liked more time to just chat with my companions. Most especially, I would have liked some additional dialogue after settling into a romance with someone.

- Incorrect details from DA:O. I only had this happen when I imported a DA:O save where Anora was Queen. There were numerous references in DA2 to the ‘King’ of Ferelden. Nitpicky, true, but there you go.

- Lack of party change through the options screen. Having to trek to a location where I can change my companions can be very frustrating, especially with all of the…

- Loading screens! I understand there are limitations based on system hardware, but load screen after load screen after load screen got old after a while. I’m pretty sure I could have read War & Peace during those.

- Making a difference. For the most part, it seemed the side quests and dialogue choices had little real effect on the outcome of the story or even conversations.

- Being able to click on something outside my reach and moving towards it; be it loot, chests, or enemies. That was probably the thing it took me longest to adjust to in coming to DA2. If I had a nickel for every time I head ‘I have to get closer’ or ‘Out of range’, I’d be a rich man.

- Auto-leveling issues. It seems like there isn’t much rhyme or reason to auto-leveling characters. Neither Varric nor Isabela raise their Cunning significantly, making looting and disarming challenging when not playing a rogue and almost nobody seems concerned about raising their Willpower. Granted, I can micromanage but I invariably screw up their abilities. It would be a programming nightmare, but it would be nice if we could choose a character’s level-up priorities the same way we can select a style for their tactics.

- The ME2 style menus. Immersion is a word that gets thrown around a lot in the BSN, but the anachronistic interface really tended to break me out of the moment.

- I thought otherwise, but apparently every mage in Kirkwall IS a blood mage. Crazy.

- Lack of Robin Sachs.


While DA2 was not the same game as DA:O, I don’t feel as violently offended as some people seem to and I certainly don’t think Bioware ‘owes’ me anything. I have enjoyed playing DA2 and I can recognize its own merits for what they are. So, despite its flaws, thanks Bioware for making a game that I had fun with.

Modifié par Thessair, 08 juillet 2011 - 05:09 .

[Siven80]

I have just played through DAO again recently, along with ME2 and DA2 and i below is an updated view on what i
liked in the games in relation to DA2.

In the last few weeks i have played DAO/DAA and the DLC twice for 2 new imports for DA2, and i found myself prefering a lot of changes DA2 made.


I like loot when its useful, and so hate junk thats just there for cash and to make it feel like there is loot. So when playing DAO i got annoyed with all the useless loot and then the swapping of gear on companions. Sure its occasionally nice to change the way a companion looks, but imo there are better ways.

So i love the unique armor the DA2 (and ME2) companions wear. It helps differentiate them from npcs and helps reduce loot swapping and the annoyance of junk/useless loot.

Yet you can still pick up weapons which you can equip them with, which i like and keeps a degree of customization in the game. Accessories are there too but i found them in DA2 to be a bore.

In relation to armor drops and upgrades, i like the ME2 system of upgrading. This couldbe made into a crafting system in DA by gaining armor scraps from opponents to be made into certain armor kits which could also upgrade the armors appearance also.

On the subject of crafting and skills, i too never used traps and never made poisons in DAO, part of the reason was i never needed them, and also that i found it quite boring. I really only made the occasional health pot. And dont get me started on the terrible runecrafting system on DAA....god how tedious and boring can you get?

Yet i liked the crafting system in DA2 for its simplicity. They made it easier to craft items and less tedious
which is a good thing.

Complexity for the sake of it is a terrible design. Simplifying things doesnt means dumbing down either, everyone prefers things that are easier to access.

The combat i found more fun in DA2, its more fluid and fast paced compared to the slower, sometime ponderous nature of DAO. 
Theslower system in DAO didnt make it more tactical, the pausing to make decisions did that and i can still be tactical in DA2 by pausing.
But i do think it was just a bit too fast and a good comprimise would be a mid point between the DAO and DA2 combat speeds.

But i really did hate the waves of enemies in DA2. I dont mind the odd wave here and there, undead, demons and darkspawn i can understand waves if enemies appearing, but to use them in every fight and for mercs to appear from thin air got really boring and annoying.
Used well, waves are good, the way DA2 used them was bad.

Another combat related improvement i liked in DA2 was fewer abilites to use. Often in DAO my mage could have a full bar (on the PC) of spells, yet really only used a handful of them making a lot of them useless. So i really liked the change DA2 made by having fewer abilites and spells, making each one more useful and then having the ability to upgrade them was fantastic.

But i would still like them to go further with it. Have fewer abilities still but give each one more upgrades and upgrade paths. This could help with even more customisation while also imo, help with the lack of buttons on the console versions.

For example you could have a base attack tree (autoattack) with say 2 different paths each with different passives abilities. One could improve backstabbing if your behind an enemy and the other path could chain
attacks and then do a big hit after so many attacks land.

You could then also have a shield sustainable which has several paths that each focus on a more defensive or offensive nature.

Also a rather wild idea is to get rid of stamina/mana and just use cooldowns for ability use. Many times in both games i found stamina/mana to be a pain and more annoying than its worth and wished it was more like ME2
with just cooldowns.  This could make combat more lively, involved and fun.

Now the art style i preferred in DAO. The DA2 style is just too cartoonish/anime style and i didnt like it at all, along with the bland areas and look of the game. Also many characters looked bad which i think is down to the art style and lack of time.

The elves of DA2 im not keen on either. They are way too thin, stick thin, and lack the beauty of the DAO elves. Though the dwarves and Qunari i liked, though the Qunari could do more more variations of individuality.

Plot, story and gameworld i prefered DAO again. I think part of that is because DA2 didnt really have a main antagonist that was always in or around you like Loghain and the Blight was in DAO. DA2 just felt to me that i was going through the motions waiting for something or someone to appear and do something. If Orsino and Meredith were more involved with you or atleast in cutscenes it could have improved the game.

I also prefered the quest hubs of DAO to the more open way the DA2 quest happened as i found the story flowed better than it did in DA2.

So even though i like and dislike aspect of each game, i still play them as they all offer something different.

Modifié par Siven80, 08 juillet 2011 - 02:58 .