*sigh*
Sometimes I wish for a remake. I can just imagine all the possibilities now... all the emotion that could have been presented... all those scenes that never were...
Oh, yeah. This brings me to my last point. Emotion. Dragon Age: Origins was almost like a portal to the land of Fereldan - you felt attached to the characters and understood what they were on about, meaning that you (if only for a short time) were actually defeating the Blight. So many great scenes with characters contributed to this. It felt... epic, as a whole.
Now, I can tell something was wrong during Dragon Age 2's development. I know full well that being forced to write is bad. Without inspiration, your words come out almost soulless; bland is another way to describe it. When I compare Origins to its sequel, it's like spotting a dead cow amongst chickens (yes, its weird, but bear with me). The writing was not bad, not at all, but it was rushed. It lost some of that feeling from before. So many dull sentences... maybe it was the voice acting and cinematics that contribute as well, but the writing is still at fault.
I will finish with an example. A very obvious, should-have-been-changed bit that makes me cringe every time. Orsino's transformation! I've read that it was done simply to have another boss, but that doesn't mean you should treat it that way! First he talks about losing hope which is all okay... but then he starts chattering like a madman. I was sitting there thinking "...what?". At the very least, he could have had an argument with Hawke leading to that decision. Secondly, why does he start chattering like that anyway? He could have said something about Quentin... then Hawke interrupts, saying he knows who that is. Dialogue ensues, revelations come out of hiding, battle commences. Still worse than it not happening at all, but so much more emotional than what is there now.
So you want constructive criticism? Put more soul into your writing. I don't care if EA backs you against a wall and threatens you with a pike. They're businessmen, not artists. They know as much about writing as a dead cat. Trust me, more soul going into DA3 would go a long way... some were prepared to forgive DA2 for its shortcomings if it had a good story. Same could be said for DA3 if done right.
And with that... I bid you adieu.
Constructive Criticism
Débuté par
HawXV2
, mars 15 2011 06:50
#2676
Posté 20 août 2011 - 05:34
#2677
Posté 20 août 2011 - 06:38
I've loved both DA:O & DA2 (and their DLCs) but I have two things that just irk me to no end:
Where are the female dwarves in Kirkwall? Ten years living there and Hawke never met ONE? We saw an apostate mage on every corner, so apparently the patriarchal dwarven society is better than the templars at keeping people in seclusion.

And speaking of those apostates, they might all take some cues from Anders & Merrill - wearing those long robes and carrying a big stick is equivalent to shouting "I can make sparkles with my fingers" to anyone who can see you. I can understand it for the circle mages: its a way to separate them visually from the rest of society - to show that they are "different". But it would make a lot more sense if any apostate avoided those long robes like the plague.
Many others here have pointed out the major flaws of the game, but I just wanted to say that even with the flaws (for me) the Dragon Age series is still the best RPG game out there. It feels like I've jumped into a novel when I play and I absolutely love it. And the best part is that both games are the kind of "novel" that is fun to reread! Keep adding more romance options - you're slowly bringing more women into the gaming community and that can only mean MORE sales. I've converted 3 diehard haters of (not sure the best way to explain it) true video games to the "dark side" by showing them that they get to have an actual story with love interests instead of just a game with big guns/swords like the ones that their husbands play for hours on end.
Of course, the husbands now hate that they have to share their consoles, but they'll live.
You did a great job of listening to fans' concerns when you put out Legacy; I'm sure that should we be so lucky to get a DA 3 that you'll keep up the good work and take what feedback we've given to make an even better game.
<3:wizard:
Where are the female dwarves in Kirkwall? Ten years living there and Hawke never met ONE? We saw an apostate mage on every corner, so apparently the patriarchal dwarven society is better than the templars at keeping people in seclusion.
And speaking of those apostates, they might all take some cues from Anders & Merrill - wearing those long robes and carrying a big stick is equivalent to shouting "I can make sparkles with my fingers" to anyone who can see you. I can understand it for the circle mages: its a way to separate them visually from the rest of society - to show that they are "different". But it would make a lot more sense if any apostate avoided those long robes like the plague.
Many others here have pointed out the major flaws of the game, but I just wanted to say that even with the flaws (for me) the Dragon Age series is still the best RPG game out there. It feels like I've jumped into a novel when I play and I absolutely love it. And the best part is that both games are the kind of "novel" that is fun to reread! Keep adding more romance options - you're slowly bringing more women into the gaming community and that can only mean MORE sales. I've converted 3 diehard haters of (not sure the best way to explain it) true video games to the "dark side" by showing them that they get to have an actual story with love interests instead of just a game with big guns/swords like the ones that their husbands play for hours on end.
Of course, the husbands now hate that they have to share their consoles, but they'll live.
You did a great job of listening to fans' concerns when you put out Legacy; I'm sure that should we be so lucky to get a DA 3 that you'll keep up the good work and take what feedback we've given to make an even better game.
<3:wizard:
Modifié par Molly J Moon, 20 août 2011 - 06:41 .
#2678
Posté 20 août 2011 - 06:48
Lots of things need improving from DAII to DAIII, and most of em' have already been mentioned in this thread. But one thing I feel should be re-introduced into DAIII is the kill moves from DA: Origins, they were abolutely brilliant and I remember downloading a mod that made these occur very often and it was awesome. Every kill was an exciting one, the exploding bodies in DAII is a really cheap and ridicolous way of making the combat more brutal or whatever the goal was with that. There could be some kill moves from certain spells or talents that sometimes makes you're target explode or rip in half, but more realistic kill moves like DA: Origins had is more preffered by many of the DA fans, I guess.
The combat pace in DAII is more preferred in comparison to the slow pace from DA: Origins in my opinion but it could be slowed down just a notch to give a more realistic and tactical approach on the game. The possibilities that DAIII combat system has are huge, maybe DAII (I would not call it failure) not being so similar to DA: Origins gives DAIII a bigger chance of hitting the spot for the hardcore DA fans aswell as newly introduced one's, just a thought.
I still don't think that DAII was a bad game but it had lots of flaws which I belive should be quite easy to adress for the Bioware team. I think I've made about 4 playthroughs of DAII and I enjoyed them but it is impossible to look past the things being rushed (re-used maps!) with this game.
I have been reading many of the replies in this thread and I really hope Bioware does too because there are some really great suggestions here.
Since I can't seem to get bored of the DA genre I'm anxiously waiting for the release of more story-line based DLC's for DAII, Legacy was a good addition and I hope there's more to come. Please Bioware, make DAIII the most epic RPG game we've seen since the release of DA: Origins, which back then really blew me away!
The combat pace in DAII is more preferred in comparison to the slow pace from DA: Origins in my opinion but it could be slowed down just a notch to give a more realistic and tactical approach on the game. The possibilities that DAIII combat system has are huge, maybe DAII (I would not call it failure) not being so similar to DA: Origins gives DAIII a bigger chance of hitting the spot for the hardcore DA fans aswell as newly introduced one's, just a thought.
I still don't think that DAII was a bad game but it had lots of flaws which I belive should be quite easy to adress for the Bioware team. I think I've made about 4 playthroughs of DAII and I enjoyed them but it is impossible to look past the things being rushed (re-used maps!) with this game.
I have been reading many of the replies in this thread and I really hope Bioware does too because there are some really great suggestions here.
Since I can't seem to get bored of the DA genre I'm anxiously waiting for the release of more story-line based DLC's for DAII, Legacy was a good addition and I hope there's more to come. Please Bioware, make DAIII the most epic RPG game we've seen since the release of DA: Origins, which back then really blew me away!
Modifié par Mangeduvet, 20 août 2011 - 08:07 .
#2679
Posté 20 août 2011 - 09:00
After the anger that a certain codex in Legacy has engendered in me has worn off, I think I am able to write something more constructive / less useless. However I am not sure if this is entirely criticism. Maybe it's even too late, but I think the time is appropriate since the future of DA is at the horizon.
My criticism is this. The overblowing of supernatural elements.
Now I know, high fantasy is a genre as valid as any other, and in that genre yea supernatural elements play a very prominent role. I am not interested in that genre (or sub-genre) at all, but it's not a flaw in and of itself.
Now the problem I have with Bioware's implementation of supernatural elements, like the Thin Veil hinted to be behind the obvious lunacy of Kirkwall, that Legacy ended up expanding on, is that I cannot shake the feeling they are being used as an excuse for what I see as poor writing. My impression is that the writers, upon realizing how everyone in Kirkwall is acting like a lunatic (something the Legacy codex even admitted), realized that they needed to justify it somehow, so here came the idea of the Thin Veil. They perhaps realized that they didn't have time to develop Meredith's character, so decided to use the idol in lieu of it.
This also has to do with expectation. After Origins and especially Awakening, I thought that DA would be more focused on the "human" aspects of Thedas and not the supernatural. Now some would say that Origins already had supernatural elements. That's true, the Blight is high fantasy, but it did not influence people's minds like the idol or thin veil. It did not take away from the agency of humans. And ultimately, DA:O was not about the blight imo, it was about Orzammar, the Dalish, the Circle....etc. I always thought the blight was there to introduce those issues, that DA will take on in the future with more depth and detail. Awakening went a step further and made even the darkspawn very interesting. Demons in DA:O were also interesting, usually taking the time to explain themselves to you, at points even having some kind of reasonable argument, sometimes even helping you (Harrowing demon). In DA2, they are just mindless monsters to kill, barring Torpor. All the mythology and religions were kept in the bg, which I really liked and thought was realistic. The Thin veil in Soldier's Keep was used to show flashbacks of what happened, and perhaps the lyrium was also used to show what happened at Kal Hirol. Here you have supernatural elements being used to showcase the human elements and not take agency away from them.
So my preference, especially since we were told that DA is about Thedas and that conflicts seem to take the center of attention, is that Bioware pulls the supernatural back a notch and focus on human development, characterization and politics. DA2 was extremily lacking in that regard, and the conflict was built up poorly for many reasons. One way to do such things is via microcosms. Obviously Hawke could not have seen what was happening in the Grande Cathedral, but say upon entering the Chantry in Kirkwall, he comes across sisters of middle and lower rank (where the ideological divides usually occur) arguing over their positions, one faction being conservative and the other being more radical. That would have been one way to show that the Chantry is facing an internal divide, that would explain its otherwise inexplicable paralysis and inaction in the game. Better yet, let us play segments of the game with a different character showing us these divides. TW2 did it. It didn't tell us about the negotiations between Upper Aedirn and Kaedwen, it didn't even show us, it let us play them, by playing either King Henselt or Prince Stennis. And in doing so, introduced the characters pretty well, and acted as a prelude for the battle.
Another problem, and this is something that Bioware games usually do. Most of the interesting story bits that are crucial to the plot are left in the bg. In DA2, the most glaring example is the mage resistance. We can't interact with it directly, we can't see them. This was a missed opportunity. Interacting with the Resistance would have allowed us to see the internal divide within the mages and see the rise of the Resolutionists, who are crucial to the conflict but we only get to see them in a DLC. If you want to write a compelling, mature and complex build up of a conflict, you can't afford to keep the major players in the bg with little to no exposure. Indeed that's the major problem for Meredith and Orsino, hence the little to no character development they had. Imo, the big reason for this deficiency is the presence of the qunari that I believe is entirely unnecessary. Focus on just one conflict and dedicated time and thought to it, please. But it would seem that the coming war will be about several things at the same time, which while not unrealistic, has me worried that Bioware will treat all of them mediocrily at best. My advice would be to focus on one facet of the conflict at a time. Or implement something similar to TW2 with 2 branching narratives, each with its own unique perspective on the broader story.
Now if the supernatural is going to have a prominent role, as a design choice and not an excuse, while I would not be that interested, there are ways to make it interesting. A problem with DA2's supernatural elements is that they are not explored at all. The Thin Veil is left in the bg, when apparently it's quite major in the plot (assuming it's a design choice and not a poor excuse). The idol was very important (sadly), but it's never explored. In Varric's sidequest (which had an excellent ambience), ended up with the anti-climatic ethereal golem. Why not use this opportunity to reveal something about the idol and its origin? I am all for mystery and ambiguity, but mystery does not equal complete ignorance. Let's compare that to ME1. We didn't know what Sovereign was at the beginning, but slowly we discovered more and more about it until the revelation in Virmire, and then what Vigil tells us. Do we know everything about the Reapers by that point? No, in fact we probably knew only a small part. But at least we discovered something, that made the Reapers even more mysterious. The idol had no such revelations. Compare Saren with Meredith. Saren was being constantly developped. We kept learnng more and more about him and via subtle lines that were delivered really well, saw that he was delusional. Meredith recieved no such development. Now it might be that a DLC will come up with more explanations, but that is something that concerns me. Things like that should be in the main game. I should not be forced to pay to understand the story.
And finally, make your intentions clear, so our expectations can be adequate. I want to know with clarity, where the franchise is headed broadly speaking. If it's going to emphasize a lot on the supernatural, so I know not to expect anything political.
My criticism is this. The overblowing of supernatural elements.
Now I know, high fantasy is a genre as valid as any other, and in that genre yea supernatural elements play a very prominent role. I am not interested in that genre (or sub-genre) at all, but it's not a flaw in and of itself.
Now the problem I have with Bioware's implementation of supernatural elements, like the Thin Veil hinted to be behind the obvious lunacy of Kirkwall, that Legacy ended up expanding on, is that I cannot shake the feeling they are being used as an excuse for what I see as poor writing. My impression is that the writers, upon realizing how everyone in Kirkwall is acting like a lunatic (something the Legacy codex even admitted), realized that they needed to justify it somehow, so here came the idea of the Thin Veil. They perhaps realized that they didn't have time to develop Meredith's character, so decided to use the idol in lieu of it.
This also has to do with expectation. After Origins and especially Awakening, I thought that DA would be more focused on the "human" aspects of Thedas and not the supernatural. Now some would say that Origins already had supernatural elements. That's true, the Blight is high fantasy, but it did not influence people's minds like the idol or thin veil. It did not take away from the agency of humans. And ultimately, DA:O was not about the blight imo, it was about Orzammar, the Dalish, the Circle....etc. I always thought the blight was there to introduce those issues, that DA will take on in the future with more depth and detail. Awakening went a step further and made even the darkspawn very interesting. Demons in DA:O were also interesting, usually taking the time to explain themselves to you, at points even having some kind of reasonable argument, sometimes even helping you (Harrowing demon). In DA2, they are just mindless monsters to kill, barring Torpor. All the mythology and religions were kept in the bg, which I really liked and thought was realistic. The Thin veil in Soldier's Keep was used to show flashbacks of what happened, and perhaps the lyrium was also used to show what happened at Kal Hirol. Here you have supernatural elements being used to showcase the human elements and not take agency away from them.
So my preference, especially since we were told that DA is about Thedas and that conflicts seem to take the center of attention, is that Bioware pulls the supernatural back a notch and focus on human development, characterization and politics. DA2 was extremily lacking in that regard, and the conflict was built up poorly for many reasons. One way to do such things is via microcosms. Obviously Hawke could not have seen what was happening in the Grande Cathedral, but say upon entering the Chantry in Kirkwall, he comes across sisters of middle and lower rank (where the ideological divides usually occur) arguing over their positions, one faction being conservative and the other being more radical. That would have been one way to show that the Chantry is facing an internal divide, that would explain its otherwise inexplicable paralysis and inaction in the game. Better yet, let us play segments of the game with a different character showing us these divides. TW2 did it. It didn't tell us about the negotiations between Upper Aedirn and Kaedwen, it didn't even show us, it let us play them, by playing either King Henselt or Prince Stennis. And in doing so, introduced the characters pretty well, and acted as a prelude for the battle.
Another problem, and this is something that Bioware games usually do. Most of the interesting story bits that are crucial to the plot are left in the bg. In DA2, the most glaring example is the mage resistance. We can't interact with it directly, we can't see them. This was a missed opportunity. Interacting with the Resistance would have allowed us to see the internal divide within the mages and see the rise of the Resolutionists, who are crucial to the conflict but we only get to see them in a DLC. If you want to write a compelling, mature and complex build up of a conflict, you can't afford to keep the major players in the bg with little to no exposure. Indeed that's the major problem for Meredith and Orsino, hence the little to no character development they had. Imo, the big reason for this deficiency is the presence of the qunari that I believe is entirely unnecessary. Focus on just one conflict and dedicated time and thought to it, please. But it would seem that the coming war will be about several things at the same time, which while not unrealistic, has me worried that Bioware will treat all of them mediocrily at best. My advice would be to focus on one facet of the conflict at a time. Or implement something similar to TW2 with 2 branching narratives, each with its own unique perspective on the broader story.
Now if the supernatural is going to have a prominent role, as a design choice and not an excuse, while I would not be that interested, there are ways to make it interesting. A problem with DA2's supernatural elements is that they are not explored at all. The Thin Veil is left in the bg, when apparently it's quite major in the plot (assuming it's a design choice and not a poor excuse). The idol was very important (sadly), but it's never explored. In Varric's sidequest (which had an excellent ambience), ended up with the anti-climatic ethereal golem. Why not use this opportunity to reveal something about the idol and its origin? I am all for mystery and ambiguity, but mystery does not equal complete ignorance. Let's compare that to ME1. We didn't know what Sovereign was at the beginning, but slowly we discovered more and more about it until the revelation in Virmire, and then what Vigil tells us. Do we know everything about the Reapers by that point? No, in fact we probably knew only a small part. But at least we discovered something, that made the Reapers even more mysterious. The idol had no such revelations. Compare Saren with Meredith. Saren was being constantly developped. We kept learnng more and more about him and via subtle lines that were delivered really well, saw that he was delusional. Meredith recieved no such development. Now it might be that a DLC will come up with more explanations, but that is something that concerns me. Things like that should be in the main game. I should not be forced to pay to understand the story.
And finally, make your intentions clear, so our expectations can be adequate. I want to know with clarity, where the franchise is headed broadly speaking. If it's going to emphasize a lot on the supernatural, so I know not to expect anything political.
Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 août 2011 - 09:17 .
#2680
Posté 20 août 2011 - 09:45
As afew others have said about the characters, I also would have liked to know them better, i do think they are a strong group and what i did know of them was good, but Hawkes story goes over a whole decade yet i knew less about the DA2 characters then i did the origins characters, Which only played out for a year. I just found it weird how three years goes by and finally your allowed a converstation with them and it lasts afew minutes and even then its often pointless things, not something where i really feel im getting to know that character.
#2681
Posté 21 août 2011 - 01:27
#2682
Posté 21 août 2011 - 01:46
@KoP: I wonder if Bioware could pull off the multiple conflicts in one game. Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep managed to do three stories in one game. Each one focused on the character you played as (Terra, Aqua, Ventus).
Granted, KH:BBS doesn't give the player the option to pick dialogue options or decide how the story plays out, but it did handle 3 separate story arcs very well.
Granted, KH:BBS doesn't give the player the option to pick dialogue options or decide how the story plays out, but it did handle 3 separate story arcs very well.
#2683
Posté 21 août 2011 - 02:22
There is nothing wrong with a preset character. It's all in their personalities and presentation. You cannot choose who to play as in Assassin's Creed yet the heroes of those games are all absurdly popular and loved in their circles.
#2684
Posté 21 août 2011 - 02:21
DAII has been a HUGE letdown for me. After playing Origins I was hoping to see the game expanded on from what it was currently, not cut back to a dumbed down version with a exacting story line, only human characters to choose from, and all kinds of other stuff removed.
If there was a way to get my money back for this game I would gladly do so.
The replay value is almost nil. I have played all classes and wow am I disappointed.
I am back to playing Origins, yeah the graphics are not as nice but its much funner to play.
Oh and did I mention how horrid the pathing is in DAII?
It would be nice to actually be able to click somewhere where your character CAN go, instead of clicking here, then there once he gets to the orig point you clicked.
You should be ashamed of releasing this abbreviation of Dragon Age and the disservice I feel you have done to the fans of this game.
If there was a way to get my money back for this game I would gladly do so.
The replay value is almost nil. I have played all classes and wow am I disappointed.
I am back to playing Origins, yeah the graphics are not as nice but its much funner to play.
Oh and did I mention how horrid the pathing is in DAII?
It would be nice to actually be able to click somewhere where your character CAN go, instead of clicking here, then there once he gets to the orig point you clicked.
You should be ashamed of releasing this abbreviation of Dragon Age and the disservice I feel you have done to the fans of this game.
#2685
Posté 22 août 2011 - 12:35
Okay, since it was mentioned by the developers that they took some of the things into account with the legacy DLC, I bought it and played it.
I have to say a lot of things have improved there. More atmosphere, challanging, and I felt as if a story was told and I have a purpose to do that stuff, what I missed a lot in DA2.
Still, choices seemed to be missing (except one point where you decide your side, have not chosen the other side yet though).
It's not the "DA:2 reworked in a DLC", but the developers said that, and it's not expected to be, but as I see it it's a move into a right direction for DA:O fans.
If it gets more story love, deeper characters / more talking to your companions and environment love/maps (topic repeating environments, I don't need them to be completely different looking, but having different pathes and gimmicks at least, where opponents spawn wait for you on different spots), I think I would have enjoyed DA2 a lot better.
I have to say a lot of things have improved there. More atmosphere, challanging, and I felt as if a story was told and I have a purpose to do that stuff, what I missed a lot in DA2.
Still, choices seemed to be missing (except one point where you decide your side, have not chosen the other side yet though).
It's not the "DA:2 reworked in a DLC", but the developers said that, and it's not expected to be, but as I see it it's a move into a right direction for DA:O fans.
If it gets more story love, deeper characters / more talking to your companions and environment love/maps (topic repeating environments, I don't need them to be completely different looking, but having different pathes and gimmicks at least, where opponents spawn wait for you on different spots), I think I would have enjoyed DA2 a lot better.
#2686
Posté 22 août 2011 - 01:46
How about just create a new game exactly like Origins. Which is what the far majority of people want.
#2687
Posté 22 août 2011 - 05:23
jcrusader wrote...
How about just create a new game exactly like Origins. Which is what the far majority of people want.
i already made a suggestion similar to this. Bioware unfortunately is not willing to even truly acknowledge the mistakes they've made. So sad...after dragon age origins the dragon age dlcs used to be a straight buy for me. After dragon age 2 and the way people giving constructive criticism were insulted by bioware...the bioware franchise to me..is now a toxic franchise. i will never buy a bioware game again unless dragon age 2 is re-done properly.
#2688
Posté 22 août 2011 - 05:46
I guess I am late to this party, but I saw elsewhere there was a discussion about DA3 possibly returning more to the look and feel of DA-Origins. For my part, that would be a great idea. I much enjoyed DA-O, and will likely go back to purchase more DLC's. I almost certainly will not purchase any DLC for DA2. I read several other postings, and generally agree with the constructive criticisms. However, I am not going to read through everything here and on 2 other related threads. I simply want this to nudge BioWare developers back toward Origins and Awakening.
1.) I really do enjoy managing companion (or whole party) equipment. I liked it back w/ Balders Gate (and some others of that era's games), and I enjoyed its return in DA Origins. Call me a gaming nerd, but its fun. For instance, strategically, you can extend the use of your gold by moving you previous "top gear" to other party menbers.
2.) I miss the weapon quick toggle (e.g. melee/ranged), and going into inventory seems tedious. i do it in DA2, but it takes away the fun.
3.) Both party characters and monsters are too stylized in DA2. The old graphics were better.
4.) "Junk" is really a waste of time. It is completely uninteresting.
5.) I am not a "D&D" purist, but the combat capabilities of Rogue vs. Warrior seem way out of balance. The big hits (e.g. Twin Fang) are unrealistic at the lower levels. These types of advantages are classically reserved for the ultra-master rogues. When at the same level, a warrior should kick the rogue's ass 9/10 times. You keep the rogue around to "burgal", not as a front line fighter. Fighting is a bonus, better than a mage in close quarters.
6.) I am not too bothered by the re-used maps, nor the use of reinforcements. However, the closed of doors are pretty cheesy.
And the reinforcements seem too late for a real challenge. All they seem to do is make you fight the smae battle a second time.
7.) DA2's handling of "apostate mages" is ridiculous. The Templars should not tolerate your party, but I can bring them anywhere. In Origins, it made sense, because you could have a circle mage (Wynne) or you could have the mage become a Grey Warden. In DA2, all you do is "hide in plain sight".
8.) I think Varric is a great character, fabulous in fact. However, why not make one of his Quests to build Bianca. Its cool that it seems to auto-upgrade, but it would be fun to make him work for it.
Thanks for listening!
1.) I really do enjoy managing companion (or whole party) equipment. I liked it back w/ Balders Gate (and some others of that era's games), and I enjoyed its return in DA Origins. Call me a gaming nerd, but its fun. For instance, strategically, you can extend the use of your gold by moving you previous "top gear" to other party menbers.
2.) I miss the weapon quick toggle (e.g. melee/ranged), and going into inventory seems tedious. i do it in DA2, but it takes away the fun.
3.) Both party characters and monsters are too stylized in DA2. The old graphics were better.
4.) "Junk" is really a waste of time. It is completely uninteresting.
5.) I am not a "D&D" purist, but the combat capabilities of Rogue vs. Warrior seem way out of balance. The big hits (e.g. Twin Fang) are unrealistic at the lower levels. These types of advantages are classically reserved for the ultra-master rogues. When at the same level, a warrior should kick the rogue's ass 9/10 times. You keep the rogue around to "burgal", not as a front line fighter. Fighting is a bonus, better than a mage in close quarters.
6.) I am not too bothered by the re-used maps, nor the use of reinforcements. However, the closed of doors are pretty cheesy.
7.) DA2's handling of "apostate mages" is ridiculous. The Templars should not tolerate your party, but I can bring them anywhere. In Origins, it made sense, because you could have a circle mage (Wynne) or you could have the mage become a Grey Warden. In DA2, all you do is "hide in plain sight".
8.) I think Varric is a great character, fabulous in fact. However, why not make one of his Quests to build Bianca. Its cool that it seems to auto-upgrade, but it would be fun to make him work for it.
Thanks for listening!
#2689
Posté 22 août 2011 - 11:48
Dragon Age II with a huuuuge amount of mods and tweaks is playable.
Dragon Age Origins with 1 or 2 mods is excellent
This for me means that I spent my cash on an inferior product. Hopefully Dragon Age III won't share faults of DA:O (mostly the memory leaks that till this day have no fix on pc and will never have dear sloppy programmers) and DA II (aka dragon age "intermission" as cited by The Escapist's Yahtzee -> enviornments reuse and enemies popping out of nowhere).
If I'm to provide a constructive feedback -> Please don't try to mix those faults together, if DA III will comes out like this (You lost my trust BW when it comes to delivering decent product) - I'm not buying it and that's all.
Dragon Age Origins with 1 or 2 mods is excellent
This for me means that I spent my cash on an inferior product. Hopefully Dragon Age III won't share faults of DA:O (mostly the memory leaks that till this day have no fix on pc and will never have dear sloppy programmers) and DA II (aka dragon age "intermission" as cited by The Escapist's Yahtzee -> enviornments reuse and enemies popping out of nowhere).
If I'm to provide a constructive feedback -> Please don't try to mix those faults together, if DA III will comes out like this (You lost my trust BW when it comes to delivering decent product) - I'm not buying it and that's all.
#2690
Posté 22 août 2011 - 03:52
@KoP: I was thinking about what you said regarding the 'Thin Veil'. If Bioware had handled it properly, this could have been the hook to really bring the story together. Hawke, the outsider, noticing things (such as the seeming abundance of blood mages, or something) and wanting to learn more about Kirkwall. Learning the history, discussions with templars, mages, companions, Orsino and Meredith. Argue about relocating the Circle for everybody's benefit. Learn some things which might show as affecting the Qunari, Anders/Justice's lunacy at the end could even be partially a result of the underlying pervasive influence. If the writing had been anywhere near par, the Thin Veil would have been the background against which the human (elf, dwarf, qunari) agencies would have played out. The corrupted idol could have easily been tied into this (probably should be). Personally, I always wondered why, when some people talk about the havoc a mage can wreak that Hawke never pointed out that events in Ferelden prove you don't need to be a mage to cause great damage (i.e. Loghain, Howe).
#2691
Posté 22 août 2011 - 03:55
Even if it's just a quick line to say that you agree with doing '_____' based on previous arguments, I think we should say so. That way, Bioware can get an idea of the importance of various topics discussed in this forum.
In DAO I could check my online profile without leaving my game. I miss that in DA2 (unless that causes the memory leaks). I would think that would at least be possible from the main menu, though.
Don't do Varric style narrative again, or if so replace pictographs with pictures of the events. Maybe in black & white or sepia tinted pictures of Hawk moving in, Carver/Bethany in new situation, protests against Qunari, mages and templars issues, etc.
I imported a game from Witch Hunt, my DAO character did Origins, Awakening, Golems and WH in that order. Why didn't I get the Nathaniel quest in Act II? I haven't talked to them yet, but I see the dwarf with the missing sons instead. There's that continuity issue again.
More achievements than in DA2. One thing about the achievements in DAO is that it helps me to not do the same thing over and over again (which is enjoyable). It helps me get out of my comfort zone and I end up enjoying the game more.
Similar to what I said before, but better makeup and skin options. More like DAO. The darker lip colors especially seem kind of muddied, can't get a true wine or dark rose. And the intensity slider seems narrower. I would like to keep a hand mirror or something similar to the mirror in Black Emporium. Even if it's just to touch up my character, since in game looks can be a little bit different from character generation.
I like the 'show no helmet' option.
I like the option to highlight useable items.
I like the enhanced targeting option.
Would prefer higher max levels, 25 in Origins didn't seem enough, even without mods. Maybe 60 - 100 (which would have carried over into Awakenings, etc. instead of increasing levels for Awakening). Maybe player could earn special branch points every 7 levels or at levels 7, 14, 28, 39 . . . instead of just stopping at 14.
Tactical slots, either start with more or automatically add a slot at every level up. In DAO I did not like having to use a skill point to get more slots, I should have earned that by leveling up. That did not make sense to me.
I agree that the toggle weapons should be put back into play.
I also like being able to create multiple custom tactics that I can switch between, as in DAO.
I will go further, I would like to change the quickbar to a rotating one, so that regardless of screen resolution I can get more than 10 or 12 slots. And I would like to be able to add the tactics I want to the Quick Bar so I can switch between them more easily.
I like being able to move items to a 'junk' or 'for sale' status.
If I have the character walking, but use the mouse to select a destination point, I want them to walk there instead of running.
Injuries, go back to different types of injuries and let user make determination whether individual needs to be healed just then or not.
Random encounters, why weren't there any random encounters/ambushes when traveling from one part of the city to another? Once I am in Hightown, I can see groups of thugs (usually). With my reputation, I am presumably a target for somebody or other.
More variety in potions, etc. I liked having to earn the poison or herbalist or rune skills. It made my character more custom.
I agree with the comments about better deaths in DAO, not just chunks of blood and stuff.
I like the look of a lot of the magical effects in DA2, Arcane Shield, Cone of Cold and Rock Armor immediately come to mind.
How about the journal really being a journal, and there is a chronological record of what I do and the conversations I have? For example:
"Noble Origin
Conversation with father ".....", ".....", etc. (Details, who said what)
Convo w/ Arl Howe
Convo w/ Duncan
Quest: Find Fergus
Encounter SG
Convo w/ SG
Quest: dog in kitchen
Quest: dog in kitchen, convo w/ Nan
Quest: dog in kitchen, kill rats in pantry
Name dog"
I know it would be lengthy. But I would like it.
I would like to be able to make my own notes, in game. If I had to choose, I would take this over the complete journal I just mentioned.
Don't 'dumb down' or simplify in order to appeal to a larger audience. In many ways I feel this was done in DA2. If the story and characters are good enough, it will appeal. You can do something in the Game options, add a 'Streamlined' option which might encompass:
- recommended level up attributes, skills and tactics based on character development to that point (not replacing autolevel) which user could choose to use or not
- fewer sidequests
- maybe some abilities or ability upgrades would not be visible
- not all achievements could be unlocked, those would still be based on the complete experience
- Addons and DLC would require the complete experience mode. If they like the game well enough to purchase DLC and expansions, they will play in complete experience mode anyway (to play those extra sidequests, or get those achievements)
In DAO I could check my online profile without leaving my game. I miss that in DA2 (unless that causes the memory leaks). I would think that would at least be possible from the main menu, though.
Don't do Varric style narrative again, or if so replace pictographs with pictures of the events. Maybe in black & white or sepia tinted pictures of Hawk moving in, Carver/Bethany in new situation, protests against Qunari, mages and templars issues, etc.
I imported a game from Witch Hunt, my DAO character did Origins, Awakening, Golems and WH in that order. Why didn't I get the Nathaniel quest in Act II? I haven't talked to them yet, but I see the dwarf with the missing sons instead. There's that continuity issue again.
More achievements than in DA2. One thing about the achievements in DAO is that it helps me to not do the same thing over and over again (which is enjoyable). It helps me get out of my comfort zone and I end up enjoying the game more.
Similar to what I said before, but better makeup and skin options. More like DAO. The darker lip colors especially seem kind of muddied, can't get a true wine or dark rose. And the intensity slider seems narrower. I would like to keep a hand mirror or something similar to the mirror in Black Emporium. Even if it's just to touch up my character, since in game looks can be a little bit different from character generation.
I like the 'show no helmet' option.
I like the option to highlight useable items.
I like the enhanced targeting option.
Would prefer higher max levels, 25 in Origins didn't seem enough, even without mods. Maybe 60 - 100 (which would have carried over into Awakenings, etc. instead of increasing levels for Awakening). Maybe player could earn special branch points every 7 levels or at levels 7, 14, 28, 39 . . . instead of just stopping at 14.
Tactical slots, either start with more or automatically add a slot at every level up. In DAO I did not like having to use a skill point to get more slots, I should have earned that by leveling up. That did not make sense to me.
I agree that the toggle weapons should be put back into play.
I also like being able to create multiple custom tactics that I can switch between, as in DAO.
I will go further, I would like to change the quickbar to a rotating one, so that regardless of screen resolution I can get more than 10 or 12 slots. And I would like to be able to add the tactics I want to the Quick Bar so I can switch between them more easily.
I like being able to move items to a 'junk' or 'for sale' status.
If I have the character walking, but use the mouse to select a destination point, I want them to walk there instead of running.
Injuries, go back to different types of injuries and let user make determination whether individual needs to be healed just then or not.
Random encounters, why weren't there any random encounters/ambushes when traveling from one part of the city to another? Once I am in Hightown, I can see groups of thugs (usually). With my reputation, I am presumably a target for somebody or other.
More variety in potions, etc. I liked having to earn the poison or herbalist or rune skills. It made my character more custom.
I agree with the comments about better deaths in DAO, not just chunks of blood and stuff.
I like the look of a lot of the magical effects in DA2, Arcane Shield, Cone of Cold and Rock Armor immediately come to mind.
How about the journal really being a journal, and there is a chronological record of what I do and the conversations I have? For example:
"Noble Origin
Conversation with father ".....", ".....", etc. (Details, who said what)
Convo w/ Arl Howe
Convo w/ Duncan
Quest: Find Fergus
Encounter SG
Convo w/ SG
Quest: dog in kitchen
Quest: dog in kitchen, convo w/ Nan
Quest: dog in kitchen, kill rats in pantry
Name dog"
I know it would be lengthy. But I would like it.
I would like to be able to make my own notes, in game. If I had to choose, I would take this over the complete journal I just mentioned.
Don't 'dumb down' or simplify in order to appeal to a larger audience. In many ways I feel this was done in DA2. If the story and characters are good enough, it will appeal. You can do something in the Game options, add a 'Streamlined' option which might encompass:
- recommended level up attributes, skills and tactics based on character development to that point (not replacing autolevel) which user could choose to use or not
- fewer sidequests
- maybe some abilities or ability upgrades would not be visible
- not all achievements could be unlocked, those would still be based on the complete experience
- Addons and DLC would require the complete experience mode. If they like the game well enough to purchase DLC and expansions, they will play in complete experience mode anyway (to play those extra sidequests, or get those achievements)
Modifié par QueenPurpleScrap, 22 août 2011 - 07:56 .
#2692
Posté 23 août 2011 - 04:37
I have been really lazy about giving my review and I think it has all been said. I would like to add what I don't think has been stressed enough, which is the poor delivery on the story as a whole. I was very excited to hear that the main story would be based on the templar/mage/chantry politics, which I think is a much more difficult story to tell than your standard the big bad evil is going to destroy the world...which is a large part of the reason it didn't not work out so well in DA2. The game was clearly rushed (I won't try and guess at the reasons). I'm guessing this meant less time for the writers. Companions in DAO were much more layered, but with the exception of Aveline, it felt like the characters were only 75% done in DA2.
Bioware deserves respect for trying something very different for the main story, but it looks like they could have used another year to fully hash out the delivery and companion development.
If it wasn't for the fighting and graphics, I would have said DAO was the sequel since DA2 was a disappointment in all other aspects....well except Fenris.
Bioware deserves respect for trying something very different for the main story, but it looks like they could have used another year to fully hash out the delivery and companion development.
If it wasn't for the fighting and graphics, I would have said DAO was the sequel since DA2 was a disappointment in all other aspects....well except Fenris.
#2693
Posté 23 août 2011 - 02:59
I really wish they would fix the warrior animations. Warrior is my favorite class and I just can't play them in DA2 because their animations are so ****ing stupid looking it makes me cry.
#2694
Posté 23 août 2011 - 04:08
QPS makes many very good points. Especially about character looks. I know it may seem silly, but sometimes a choice made in character generation appears different in varying degrees during gameplay. It's nice that the character can be tweaked after creation, however, it would be more convenient to just whip out the ol compact of vanity and make the adjustments.
I like the pictographs over pictures to tell the story. It has a "Saxon" feel to them.
I loved Ferelden, the map for Fereldan, and the cultural stylings and architecture of Ferelden. I understand that Kirkwall is not Ferelden, but I would almost rather use a Ferelden weapon because it appears more ...well, realistic despite its inferiority to the over-stylized, monstrous weapons of the DAII. I would love to have seen more of the Freemarches, maybe Starkhaven. I understand that would be a lot more work and time before release. How about a small village or two?
Kirkwall was done well, but wow, it's like driving through the Salt Flats. After a bit you really stop looking around and just go from point A to point B.
I like the pictographs over pictures to tell the story. It has a "Saxon" feel to them.
I loved Ferelden, the map for Fereldan, and the cultural stylings and architecture of Ferelden. I understand that Kirkwall is not Ferelden, but I would almost rather use a Ferelden weapon because it appears more ...well, realistic despite its inferiority to the over-stylized, monstrous weapons of the DAII. I would love to have seen more of the Freemarches, maybe Starkhaven. I understand that would be a lot more work and time before release. How about a small village or two?
Kirkwall was done well, but wow, it's like driving through the Salt Flats. After a bit you really stop looking around and just go from point A to point B.
#2695
Posté 23 août 2011 - 05:20
Fyrdman wrote...
I would love to have seen more of the Freemarches, maybe Starkhaven. I understand that would be a lot more work and time before release. How about a small village or two?
I don't think many of us would complain if they took more time to finish the next game because they were adding more content. Personally I'd jump for joy.
#2696
Posté 23 août 2011 - 06:08
Ok, I just finished the game so I'll talk now about the things I liked and didn't like. Overall not a bad game, but it really suffers in comparison to DAO.
Like:
The runecrafting was done really well. I liked you could add runes to any piece of armor-helmet, greaves, chestpiece, etc. If it's possible, i'd like to add runes to accesories in the future.
Dont Like:
1. Choices- I always felt Hawke was running for Mayor of Kirkwall. I think a lot of the problem was he was limited to Kirkwall.
2. Timeline- There was very little discussion of what was happening in the rest of Thedas outside of Kirkwall.It was done much better in DAO with Bodahn and the Bartender.
3. Art Design-It was just really ugly. I've known people to post they won't buy DA3 if this is not improved-a major priority.
4.Unresolved Storylines-Nothing personal, but it's a really bad idea to send both previous protagonists into a black hole. It's going to be a major issue if unresolved.
5. Companions-It's not a good idea to be unable to discuss things with companions like in DAO. I really missed not being able to persuade people around to my point of view
6. Customization-One of the best things about DAO was the ability to customize your character at the start. I don't think it was a good idea to have only a human protagonist.
Like:
The runecrafting was done really well. I liked you could add runes to any piece of armor-helmet, greaves, chestpiece, etc. If it's possible, i'd like to add runes to accesories in the future.
Dont Like:
1. Choices- I always felt Hawke was running for Mayor of Kirkwall. I think a lot of the problem was he was limited to Kirkwall.
2. Timeline- There was very little discussion of what was happening in the rest of Thedas outside of Kirkwall.It was done much better in DAO with Bodahn and the Bartender.
3. Art Design-It was just really ugly. I've known people to post they won't buy DA3 if this is not improved-a major priority.
4.Unresolved Storylines-Nothing personal, but it's a really bad idea to send both previous protagonists into a black hole. It's going to be a major issue if unresolved.
5. Companions-It's not a good idea to be unable to discuss things with companions like in DAO. I really missed not being able to persuade people around to my point of view
6. Customization-One of the best things about DAO was the ability to customize your character at the start. I don't think it was a good idea to have only a human protagonist.
#2697
Posté 23 août 2011 - 08:59
I got the Nathaniel quest in Act 2,perhaps because I imported the final save for awakening? I don't know why others didn't, though.
As I've stated before, I like the new user interface and inventory setup. I'm not a fan of the whole follower customization may not happen. And this is because I play with a mod that let me choose the armour for my companions. This means that they have way higher armour class than in the normal game. And it helps the party - not at least in difficult situations or in combat which is hard to win otherwise. There's a gameplay reason for why people like to dress their companions. It simply makes the party stronger. [In PS: Torment, you could find certain armour and weapons that were restricted for say Morte or Annah, maybe this is the way togo?]
I agree about the cinematics and the spell effects, very nice they look. Please keep this around in further dlcs, expansions and DA3.
As I've stated before, I like the new user interface and inventory setup. I'm not a fan of the whole follower customization may not happen. And this is because I play with a mod that let me choose the armour for my companions. This means that they have way higher armour class than in the normal game. And it helps the party - not at least in difficult situations or in combat which is hard to win otherwise. There's a gameplay reason for why people like to dress their companions. It simply makes the party stronger. [In PS: Torment, you could find certain armour and weapons that were restricted for say Morte or Annah, maybe this is the way togo?]
I agree about the cinematics and the spell effects, very nice they look. Please keep this around in further dlcs, expansions and DA3.
#2698
Posté 23 août 2011 - 10:45
@aries1001: When I imported directly from an Awakening end of game save, I got the Nathaniel quest. Obviously importing from Origins will result in the other 2nd act deep roads quest. What is interesting, is that my current playthrough imported information from Witch Hunt which imported from Golems which imported from Awakening. Yet no Nathaniel quest, instead I have the other quest. Bug? Deliberate? I'm not sure.
I would like to add that if I summon a creature, whether a wolf in DAO or the dog in DA2, I want to be able to click on them (or their portrait) and direct them. If Mabari are such intelligent dogs I should be able to give them a command or two and have them follow orders (at least as much as my children do, haha).
I would like to add that if I summon a creature, whether a wolf in DAO or the dog in DA2, I want to be able to click on them (or their portrait) and direct them. If Mabari are such intelligent dogs I should be able to give them a command or two and have them follow orders (at least as much as my children do, haha).
#2699
Posté 24 août 2011 - 10:35
This game just felt like Awakening, or just another add-on for DA:O. Aesthetically, the menu system felt more Mass Effect than Dragon Age. I agree with most of the stuff listed as faults with this game. So far i've mostly just played around with rogue and prefer the DA:O rogue(without the ninja poofing). I also don't like the weird glowing dots trap detection in DA2 or the foggy stealth which seems to be a recycled effect from Awakening.
Being stuck in one city for quest after quest is making me drowsy, so having trouble getting through the game.
Character customization. Please fix this as Bioware seems to have the worst character creator mode out there. Mass Effect character creator is awful and limited, DA is about the same with alot of fugly thrown in to boot.
I miss playing something other than human. This is the first time i've ever been stuck playing human in a high fantasy genre and so far I have not enjoyed the experience.
Being stuck in one city for quest after quest is making me drowsy, so having trouble getting through the game.
Character customization. Please fix this as Bioware seems to have the worst character creator mode out there. Mass Effect character creator is awful and limited, DA is about the same with alot of fugly thrown in to boot.
I miss playing something other than human. This is the first time i've ever been stuck playing human in a high fantasy genre and so far I have not enjoyed the experience.
#2700
Posté 24 août 2011 - 02:10
The ninja poofinf sort of goes away if you play with the 1.03 patch. I've played both the demo and the game now; the poofing is nearly gone in the 1.03 patch and the rogue's backstab feels much more natural now, I find.
There a lot of quest in the Sundermount Area, in all three acts. And they're plenty of quests to do in Kirkwall itself. The game, DA2, is meant to to be low and dark fantasy, not high fantasy. And to me, it felt and feels natural to play as human in this story, Hawke's story.
I agree about the character customization, not because I want to dress my fellow characters (in the game), but because, as I said earlier, custumization means that people in my party are getting stronger as well.
There a lot of quest in the Sundermount Area, in all three acts. And they're plenty of quests to do in Kirkwall itself. The game, DA2, is meant to to be low and dark fantasy, not high fantasy. And to me, it felt and feels natural to play as human in this story, Hawke's story.
I agree about the character customization, not because I want to dress my fellow characters (in the game), but because, as I said earlier, custumization means that people in my party are getting stronger as well.





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