2797 réponses à ce sujet

[SamilTane]

Hello everyone. I've just completed the game - took me close to 50 hours with most side quests completed, and I played on hard without changing the difficulty level at any point. I thought I'd post my review while the game is still fresh in my mind. This is a revised version of a review I posted elsewhere when I was still just into act 3.

Skip to the bottom of my post for a summary if you don't like bashing through a wall of text!

To give some backgroud on my perspective, I'm very firmly in the camp that loves "classic" RPGs - been drawn to them since I picked up NWN years ago - and thoroughly enjoyed DA:O mainly because of the very memorable characters and gripping plot. My experience experience, in order of area I find most important in any game are as follows.



*** The may be some very, very mild spoilers below ***
(Oh, and the change in smileys reflect the change in my opinion from when I wrote the old version of this review - around the start of act 3 - to now, when I've completed the game!)



Story [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie] >> [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

I felt throughout that the story (so far) drew me in, and kept me interested in playing into the night to find out what happens next. My main gripes were that the "acts" felt terribly disjointed and that the story, while interesting, felt pretty shallow at least through acts 1 and 2. For example I want my character to have spent ~18 hours of game time working towards saving the world or something, rather than working towards getting enough cash to fund an expedition to get enough cash.

However as I entered the final part of the final act... my goodness. It was as though they hired a different writer to come up with the ending. I thought the finale was extremely well done and the emotions were done just right, in an understated kind of way that leaves you both wistful and hopeful.

I don't actually think that Bioware intends to use DLC to create acts 4 and beyond, by the way. The game actually feels complete to me. Sure, there's room to link it with future DA games, but the story of DA2 feels like it has been closed off very nicely (even if it was rough around the edges inside), and it has left me excited for DA3.

Environments [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

I actually enjoyed the environments in act 1, but some time around the middle of act 2 I realised that environments were being reused over and over. I don't think I need to say more than the fact that this is absolutely unacceptable.

Characters [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie] >> [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Contrary to the opinion elsewhere on the boards, I think Bioware did a pretty good job with the companions this time around. I understand the complaint that none of the characters are as memorable as Alistair, Morrigan, Sten, etc, but to be fair DA:O's companions just about covered the spectrum of personality types so it was always going to be tough to create memorable yet unique companions for DA2.

Either way I do think Bioware did an excellent job with the characterization of the companions, particularly Anders, Merrill, Aveline, and Fenris. It's a little surprising (to me) how bland Isabela turned out, especially since I remember a dev mentioning that she's going to be popular.

I also loved how the relationships with Hawke's companions feels like they are being constantly and increasingly tested throughout the story, especially (*especially*) towards the end, and thought the voice acting for all the NPCs was amazing sometimes and helped drive the story along.

Combat [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie] >> [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

Ok I do understand why Bioware would take combat in the actiony direction, and I do understand that some people do love this kind of combat style so I won't launch into a complaint about the style itself.

My gripe is that Bioware had to do it to this series. DA:O created the expectation of a certain combat style, one
that was slower and less flashy (for example), and they should have stuck to it or at least not tweak it too much.

Even from a business point of view, you severely increase risk by taking all your key products to a certain direction. You want to (1) hold on to existing customers, and (2) reduce risk by diversification, and Bioware should have done that by deepening the "classic" RPG combat of the DA series, while pumping as much actiony goodness as they want into the ME series.

And to add one more point, I thought that the bosses in the final part of the game were a bit underpowered compared with the bosses the player has already encountered. It was a bit surprising how easy to kill they were given the immense challenge of the bosses in acts 1 and 2.

Other coments

Graphics [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie] I'm not one that needs Crysis-esque graphics for every game I play, and I thought the art direction for DA2 was spot on.
Itemization [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie] On one hand didn't like the fact that I couldn't switch out companion armor, but on the other hand really loved the fixed armor styles on them. I suppose the best result would have been to allow companion armor to be switched out, but make *all* armor in the game as gorgeous as the ones the companion wore. But yeah, budgets constrain.

Overall [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

• Story. Very memorable story with an understated but (to me) very emotional ending that I feel made up for the disjointedness that was apparent for most the game, and that was effectively driven by occassionally very well done voice acting. If DA:O scored 10/10 for story, I'd give DA2 8/10.
• Followers. Companions were well-executed and, while not as memorable as DA:O's companions, were pretty interesting in their own right. It would've been nice to be able to talk to them at random places as in DA:O, but it wasn't a huge issue to me. Again, if DA:O scored 10/10 for companions, I'd give DA2 8/10.
• Environments. I'm sorry, Bioware, but environments that are recycled this much is absolutely unacceptable to me, regardless how well-crafted the  environments are. 2/10.
• Combat. As mentioned above, I think that if Bioware made a mistake, it was in changing the combat style to suit a different type of gamer entirely, as opposed to polishing up what DA:O had, so that its current most loyal customers would not be alienated. 4/10.

Cheers. Just my 2 cents.

Modifié par SamilTane, 17 mars 2011 - 07:17 .

[EG NeoMorph]

I finally figured it out... Dragons Age 2 is meant to be a stage show!

The reason I think this is so that the cave we have been endlessly searching time after time can be modelled on stage easier. To make it a "new cave" they just move bits of the scenery around and TADA it's the basement of a mansion or a cave in the mountain. QED!

[thesilverlinedviking]

I noticed that people never take development time into account. Origins took like 5 years to make. That's plenty of time to perfect the game to the point of perfection. DA2 was developed in around... 1 year 3 months. They also made some pretty major changes to the game. After considering that, I think BioWare did a pretty good job with DA2. I blame EA for the lack of development time. I just hope that EA doesn't pull a stunt like that with DA3.

[darkrose]

standardpack wrote...

And Hawke's voice, I know it isn't intentional but whenever I hear him talk I think 'That Bastard Vaughan Urien!!' Which made it harder to relate to Hawke, perhaps it would have been better to find a completely different voice actor for protagonist, or atleast someone with voice differentiation. This one might just be a pet peeve on my part.

I initially had the same problem, but I really didn't like Fem!Hawke's voice, so I went with a guy. By a few hours in, I'd gotten used to it. (Thinking about Ser Bryant helped). There were a couple of lines that made me go, "VAUGHAN! KILL!" though, like whenever he did the "Sure...oh wait, no," construction, which is what he told my Tabris before kidnapping her.

[Shadow_Claw]

the only thing i have to say so far is that the experience doesn't feel as epic as the original. i have an open mind and am willing to follow the game wherever it takes me, i am just not in awe as i was with DA:O. some elements i like - the art, the story, and the fact that the main character has a voice actor.

[Statulos]

To me the main issue of the game is that it was released too soon and too rushed.

It clearly shows that you improve visuals, that you improved dialogues, scripts (in textual terms), characters, choices... Basically everything that made Origins great. But the lack of time shines when:

-You have to repeat scenarios. Sure, the streets of Hightown are not going to be much different, but not identical. That does not contribute to the sense of passing the time in Kirkwall. Sure the dungeons are not that different, but a bit more variety gives you the idea that you´re not doing the same thing again an again.

-Quests that only deal with bring X object to Y person, with no context just don´t tell anything about the plot or help you get a better understanding of the universe and its characters.

-You have traded epic scale for deeper interaction taking a narration to a more personal level. That is great and I like that a lot. However, I would like to influence my characters more often. Befrending Isabela renders changes (This is a spoiler-free area so I´ll just say that a strong relationship with her changes elements key to the plot), so why not more of that with Anders, Sebastian, Merrill and the rest?

-Control and influence are important ingredients in an RPG. The more you give us, the better. I liked the capacity to improve and upgrade the Vigil in Awakening. Something like that, where you can see your influence coming back would have been excelent. It helps you seeing that you´re more and more important and could lead to potentially solving the "I am important yet poor" feeling. The prices of the loot are terribly low compared to the prices you get charged for items and that severely cuts my options to customize my character and companions.

-Romance and conflict attached to it is something I miss. Companions getting jelous or not minding give them more personality.

-More coherent cameos would be great. Yes, I know the events on Witch Hunt are not covered in DA2 (maybe they will with future DLC´s), but those cameos feel more like eye candy than integral parts of the story. I have the feeling that the way they were placed lacks time for development.

All in all? I wish this convinces EA to give you more time to develop more and better the next game and if possible, it would be great to have a redux pack that adresses variety issues not necessarily changing anything already present, but simply fleshing out better what is already there.

[UlukayX]

Alright, Topic with actual constructive criticism beyond "The game it teh **** cause it's not Baldurs gate and 4 consols I hate u all Bioware mangiraffedog ftw" spamming, nice change of pace after the last days.

I can't possibly add anything that hasn't been said, but I try anyway.
The Idea to place the whole game in Kirkwall is not as bad as it seems, it makes sence with the Companion system for once, after all, why would someone follow you around half the world as a rival?
Yet, there is wasted potential here I think. Within the whole 7 Years, the city does not change once even in details save for a single statue in the Docks. Slowly adding new Areas over the years, closing old ones off and adjusting steady ones to the changes the times bring would have gone a long way here, but not even the Drunks in the Taverns change. It would have been good to keep players entertained.

Watching how your companions develop over the xears was a pleasure, however. The one thing I found missing from mass effect 2 was interaction between them, Dragon age two fixes that with finally adding sporadic cut-scenes for them. Anders arguing with Aveline, Isabella and Merril Talking about men, Varic urging Merryl to leave her home again, and so on. Combined with 3 times as many personal quests then usual and it being shown that they lead a life beyond following the Champion around they are clearly given more spotlight then before,
The downside though seems to be that the casual chatter to get to know them better seemed to have been cut out in return. I think that's why many feel like they can not connect to the new party as well as to the old one, Combine both elements in DA3 and everyone will be happy. ^^

Oh, and it took me a while to understand the reasoning behind the companion equipment route, but I think I do now. In DA:O All three female leads had the exact same body. It almost took a bit of immersion away to have one size fit all even. In DA2 Merril, Isabella and Bethany have a completely different BMI that would require Armors to be custom fit to them, Same for Fenris, Varic and Anders, not to mention that this way it is ensured that they always have a unique look when compared to others... and you can sell us custom appearences for them too

Yet still... If my character moves on and grows more powerful I want his/her look to represent that in a game like DA. The individual look thing worked very well for mass effect but when you actually find equipment, it feels like a slap in the face to not be able to give it to your companions, worse, to throw it away because your main char is not if the required class, it would also have made shopping more appealing, I didn't find myself biying eqipment once...

You ether have to do it like with Shepard and have one armor with Customizable parts (Please don't!) or allow companions to be equipped as well, I vouch for the later in DA3, If I want to play a game like Mass Effect 2, I play Mass Effect.2.

And this also leads to my final comment. DA2 had me seriously entertained despite the flaws though I'd compare the game mechanics more to games like Final fantasy 12 then to the actual RPGs DA:O was lauded as the spiritual successor off. It at turns looks like someone thought "Okay, Mass Effect 2 was our most successful game so far, so all games need to be more like it!" But that's not the case. DA should be a series on it's own, and I think Bioware could have avoided a lot of heat from the fans had the game not be marketed as the successor to one of the last bastions of classical style Roleplaying these days.
These are a dying breed and people are frustrated about that fact enough without it being shoved down their throats like that. ^^'

Modifié par UlukayX, 17 mars 2011 - 02:10 .

[TheKnave69]

John,

Be careful what you ask for.

While I was playing, it felt like an action game with RPG elements, and if that's the direction that Bioware went, then it succeeds, but to me, BW will always be a creator of expansive and deep CRPG's. Bioware has always excelled at character generation, with a myriad of tweaks and customizations. One of the things that I enjoy about CRPG’s is the ability to shape my character as I see fit. Part of that is manipulating looks stats, class, race, gender and name. Here, it feels almost like the character creation was almost unnecessary. You picked class, sex and first name. Even most of the stats were irrelevant, and it was almost required to dump all of the points into the two primary stats in order to get the feats and wear the high end class armor.

By forcing me to play Hawke, with a pre-defined background, I felt more like I was watching Hawke’s story than living it as I played. When I watch a movie, or read a book, that’s fine, but I play CRPG’s to be in control.

This leads me to the dialog wheel. Honestly, it didn’t work especially well for me. It was an interesting concept, but it basically limited my reactions to good, bad, sarcastic. I also felt that the story dictated events. My dialog choices may have had a cosmetic effect, but I didn’t feel that my decisions had gravitas. The voiced protagonist also detracted from my immersion. When I play a CRPG, I imagine my own voice and attitude in the dialog. Here, it 1) wasn’t my voice and 2) wasn’t spoken how I imagined it would be.

A lot of talk has been made of the ten year span, but the individual scenes and chapters felt more like a loose collection events rather than a cohesive whole. The whole thing seemed episodic. I’d rather have an intense story that covers a short period of time than a disjointed one that covers a longer span.

I found the UI and art direction to be uninspired. Replacing the battered scroll design with a basic grey on black gave the game a generic feeling. The UI could have just as easily been for a modern day or futuristic game. The UI, while “transparent,” is just as much a character as your companions, and serves to set the tone of the game. I did enjoy the presentation of the skill tree, but streamlining them to combat only feats, made it feel less deep.

The simplified inventory management system and general lack of depth in item description also pulled me out of the world that was supposed to be created. Half of the fun, for me, is finding a book or item and reading the lore behind it. I found the 5 star belt, the 5 star belt and the 5 star belt, with simple stat listings to be less than engaging.

I found the friend/rival system an interesting concept, but lacking. In the first game, there were breaking points. If a companion didn’t agree with you, they would leave, or your could always tell them it was time to part ways, but here it feels like the companions stick around because the story dictates that they stick around. This, for me, removed meaningful party development. “I hate you, don’t leave me,” didn’t work for me. There’s only one player, and it’s not like your rival will take over the party and play the game.

I didn’t feel a connection to my party the same way that I have in previous Bioware games. Here, they all seemed to be pretty broad strokes and the interaction at predefined locations and times made them feel more like plot points than organic characters within the game. In DA:O for example, each of the characters had layers that you could discover, if you chose to pursue it, and if you met the requirements.

The city, and world, just didn’t come alive for me. It felt extremely under populated and confining. The city maps were all basically narrow corridors, and the vendors were just trunks. The day and night toggle also felt overly artificial. If I had a mission I had to undertake at night, I could postpone it indefinitely. There was no sense of the passage of time.

I didn’t enjoy the new combat mechanics. They were too hyperkinetic, and lacked tactical elements. I approach RPG combat like a chess match (I actually enjoy pausable real time). With the spawning enemies and lack of friendly fire (maybe an available option on all difficulty levels), there was really no advantage to party placement. Mages in melee combat with their staves made little sense to me. Mages are supposed to be glass cannons. If I’m fighting a group of enemies clear across the screen and enemies pop up next to my mage, I don’t have time to get to him and support him. With the current combat system, I didn’t have to.

The auto locking, self centering, camera, combined with a lack of tactical view made it difficult to center AOE effects on a group. I had to target an individual enemy and hail-mary my effects. Because of where I may be on the field, some of my own party may be blocking my view, making target acquisition problematic. It’s pretty clear that the controls were optimized for a controller, but with a mouse and keyboard, the combat was more annoying than anything else.

The game was obviously a console port that didn’t take advantages of the strengths that a PC (my platform of choice) offers. Perhaps, if it came out on console first, and was properly ported, my impressions would be different. KOTOR is a good example of a successful port from console to PC. The UI was tweaked, graphics revamped, and controls optimized for the PC. Releasing an enhanced graphics pack as a patch, and not integrating it into the PC version, along with the oft repeated (both in the forums and in the game) maps prior to the release screams rush job. I also felt that the same day premium DLC was pretty tacky.

In short:
Protagonist – I wasn’t in control of him/her. The story was.
Dialog – Not enough choice or weight behind them
Story – A collection of episodes rather than something intense and cohesive.
UI/Art Design – Too streamlined and slick. Too modern. Not enough lore involved in inventory
NPC’s – Felt that the story dictated their actions, rather than their personalities. The felt too one dimensional.
Combat – Too fast. Not tactical.
Presentation - Feels hurried to market, could use a good coat of polish prior to release.
Same day premium DLC - Not a way to make friends and influence people.

[John Epler]

TheKnave69 wrote...

John,

Be careful what you ask for.

I always am! But in this case, you gave me exactly what I was hoping for

Just letting you guys know that we're still reading these.

[nubbers666]

i agree with hawx
while this game had some major improvements it also had its bad parts

choices i felt had no real impact they all lead to the same thing
the ending were it just said me and my companions went our separate ways and that is that.. i did not like . i preferred the dao ending were it gives more detail of what happens to my companions

also import saved games are broken on some parts

[standardpack]

JohnEpler wrote...

TheKnave69 wrote...

John,

Be careful what you ask for.

I always am! But in this case, you gave me exactly what I was hoping for

Just letting you guys know that we're still reading these.

What's your guy's reaction so far?

[Selphares]

So since I read that the constructive critic here is taken along I will give it a try. Oh and sorry for my english it is notmy first language.

Story:
*may consist partly slight spoilers but mainly unwanted*

Postive:

I sort of liked the narrative style and how the story developes over several years and finally connects in the end. It is really nice done.

Negative:

The main problem is that the mgicians choice is not hidden enough as a whole. Latest the second time around someone must notice that choices sadly have hardly a bigger impact over the course of the game and just feel bland and not significat, which I find kind of sad. Realy wished more variation there end to the end things felt a bit rushed, even as I must the final was made nice.

An other problem maybe was that Bloodmages are propably way to overused to be taken well serious.Than again amybe only my own opinion but somehow certain charakters in the end just not act very rational in that case.

Charakters:

Positive:

I really like the charakters and their personalities not to mention their comments about things.  In special I have to praise the options to let them interact, they do not feel that much passive like they partly did in Dragonage by doing this. Anyway the same area leads me to the negative things from my view.

Negative:

No matter how unfriendly  and rude you are to them aside of a few cases they seem to be the most time very forgetful about you being for example really mean to them and feel sort of to much caught in their Personality. Like your Brotehr being a constant meany to you and your sister no matter how hard you try is always nice to you. While it is true that  people not easy change over night but consideirng about how long the game goes it would feel nicer to have some effect.
I think the worst case was Merril with her final Quest I did. I guess you know what I mean in case of worst outcome, if not I would like to explain over personal message. NAyway it was a bit disapointing and unsatifying after this.

Communication:

Positive:

I like the new wheel system and the case that the main charakter is voiced. Can only speak for the german voiceactors but special female Hawk sound snice and fitting.

Negative:

Propably it was said sometimes before but it is kind of sad that the charakter often not says what choice wheel kind of hints to. It sort of let you feel more liek a spririt that makes a kind of suggestion influence than actually be the charakter. It misses their felt often the option to act on your own special in some crucial cases you are just left with options you not want and if it is there the option seem to be ignored or kind of tricked  away. I really dislike the aspect, because it makes the illusion of choice even more weaker than it could have been. Personally I hope that it had mainly time reason, consideirng how long Dragonage was in work back than compared to Dragonage 2. Hey I even remember pictures with Neverwinter Nights 1 graphics for it in the early plannings.



Combat

Positive:

I mainly like the faster and more fluid combat and must admit that I play it mainly on easy, since I am a person that is more interrested intoa good story than actually combat. Anyway it feels nice made and the charakters plays quite fluid. Itis also nice that each main class feels quite different in the way it acts. Not to mention that there is no need for a long rest after the combat. Also very nice is that each of your companions does have a kind of personal special skilltree which I really like.

Negative:

I personally as a friend of mages and the former more Nature Rogue player really missed things like formshapes or the ability to summon a companion. Ok you have your own personal Wardog with the Signature Edition but it is not exactly the same. I agree that is mainly personal prefference. Also a Problem is sometimes that you are forced out of combat reason to optimize your group which kind of can limited sometimes the choices of group members. However this is mainly my personal dislike and not exactly a design flaw.

Items / Equitment

Positive:

I really like the aspect that the companions have their kind of own style that they wear instead of  all be forced in similar amory models to wear it let them feel more realistic. I sort of like as well how their amory changes after certain impacts or events. I really would wish more of these.  Also the way the items in general are sorted is kind of nice to look over.

Negative:

The Problem that you get for your maincharakter lots of amory and other things that just have no use for you if you play certain classes. In Wort cases it make sthe Bonus Amor and the Blooddragon Amor totally useless for you if you play a ,agic user and in some cases even as rogiue since the class is not mainly focused on strenght after all.  I wish their would be betetrsolutions to equit the companions  to make a lot of nice things to not get lost or just have to many things just as hmm needless weight by your side. It sort of feels saddening since you really find a lot of things and as a magic user most of it just can not be used.

Things I  wish to have in the future , that  would be great to have  but are no  factor for  if I buy the next game or not:

Get rid of the Wardog and give me a gwon out wild cat to fight for me instead.


Ok that was my critic to far, sadly with not that much constructive solutions , at least not as  drect listed as I would like to but I hope it can be a bit helpful.

With friendly  regards

Selphares

[xantis_iii]

Some complains that I have with DA2 and are not addressed here nor in the "An Exhaustive Discussion on the Merits and Demerits of Dragon Age 2" thread.

Let me just start by saying that DA2 as a PC RPG can only be played on Hard or Nightmare. On Normal or Casual it's too close to a hack&slash Diablo like game.

* The quest level scaling

In the first game due to it's more open nature you had sort of checkpoints before any major area, like the battles at the entrance to orzamar, which served to tell you that you weren't the right level to enter that area, now you don't have these kinds of encounters.
Which due to the way the story is told in DA2 (Act 1 covers Level 2 to 11 in Kirkwal, etc) makes life a bit hard when you aren't quite ready to do something. This made the "Night Lies" battle really hard to do until I had no more experience to gain from the act. I should note that this was helped by the "wave" system of the game.

What we have now are battles that at first glance appear doable but due to the fact that even if you do manage to kill the "boss", and other low levels, you can still die because enemies keep on spawning from the walls.

* Difficulty level scaling

The difficulty levels are too different from each other, they should be something linear not exponential. Casual is too easy, Normal is easy, Hard is too hard and Nightmare makes no sense.

On DA:O the scaling was better and made sense. Everything was just shifted one notch to account for new RPG players, hard was normal and nightmare was hard.

One good example is the loss of friendly fire on everything but nightmare, in my opinion this was caused because of the speeded up combat and the fixed camera. By making the combat fast AoE spells are impossible to target properly.

In any case, my suggestion is instead of making everything insanely difficulty, what about actually code better AI?
This is a particular example of a not so sporadic situation, there was a battle in allieanage where I ended it by running around the tree for a better part of 5 minutes killing enemies which insisted on following me instead of splitting up and attacking me from two fronts.
Being a programmer I know that it's much easier to just tweak stats but a better AI could really redefine the way difficultly level scaling influences a game.

* STOP means STOP

I play a rogue and, despite DA2 making it harder to use like this, I use it often to scout ahead while stealthed. This also implies that I want to leave my party behind so that they aren't seen by the enemies. The problem is that there seems to be a sphere between the party leader and the companions and they can't be further apart than X. This makes it very hard to do proper scouting.

I know that in DA:O there was an issue if you left the chars stopped too far back when you released the hold they would teleport to your location but the new solution is worse.

* The codex is not practical

Too much information for the current structure. The previous handling of codex entries though not perfect (the numbering wasn't a very good idea) was much better than the new version.

* Inventory

Although I very much hope this is never done and we get a more complete inventory, I need to say that the new inventory is mostly useless.
I pick up lots of things playing around but the fact is that besides potions and accessories the rest is just sold. What is the point of loot that I can't use and no other char can equip? Ie. a rogue can't equip robes or heavy armor so what is the point of even dropping it? We already have a junk section.
I do get why most of the changes were made, the extent was just wrong and not useful.
In my opinion bioware wanted to go the way of ME2 but was afraid that would be too large a change for DA. That is correct, the inventory system needed tweaking not neutering.

Now, I should point out that I'm liking the game, the problem is that this isn't as good as DA:O, even if you take the game as stand-alone which we can't, the game is still worse. Not bad, but not great either.

Okay, I'm also going to give an idea that could be helpful. Bioware could create a survey (comprehensive) with questions to the end-user.
What I'm thinking is breaking up DA2 in sections, like story, character art, battle system, etc.
And ask the users what they think. And yes, I know that surveys are hard to get right, but if done right you could get more input from the users that really don't want to write here on the forum. And you still get the input from forum users.

To end I would really like to stress that the reason DA2 is having this amount of criticism (good or bad) is because people liked what they saw in the Dragon Age world, and seeing the amount of input on the forums, people feel a bit let down (about DA2) but still believe in the series and want bioware to see what in their vision is wrong so that it can be fixed for DA3.
And, in my opinion, it is in DA3 that you should focus now, not in DLCs that can't change what DA2 is but in a DA3 that will be awesome and will leave us hungry for the next big thing.

[standardpack]

Another thing I'm seeing, what is with the 'junk'? I mean if you guys down in bioware had some sort of plan for that like weapon and armor crafting then by all means go ahead and ignore this post. But so far it is good for nothing, why not just make it so we pick up more coin from a fallen enemy instead of this? What was the point?

[ransompendragon]

I think I can only do this in bite size pieces, although I have warmed up to the game some after posting mostly negative in the review thread in general.

Today my thought is the fact that the journal is not a journal! Not that it was much of one in DAO. There is no way for me to see the previous points in a quest, just the current very short sentence. At the pace I pick up new quests (still in act 1) I lose all the detail of why I should bother to go *there* and talk to *so and so*.

(Along with that is how much I hate the UI in general).

Modifié par ransompendragon, 17 mars 2011 - 02:39 .

[Malysoun]

I think that the dialogue wheel was an improvement over six equally bland or vague dialogue options that don't necessary convey my intent.
While it seems much easier to maintain my companions in armor, there's also a flipside where I never get to see them in the cool blood dragon armor when I happen to be playing a class that can't or won't use it.
The game did seem way too action oriented shooter almost vs deep puzzle solving rpg.
I'm not as upset about the area re-use as some people because it's the same thing as ME2 where all smuggler bases look the same.
What happened to the statistics journal page? I want to see party damage/heal contributions.
While I do like seeing new things with regards to character specializations, leaving out all the old specs and having one healer mage npc that I don't like diminishes my experience. At least in awakening you could make the other mage npcs into healers with respec. Or make the other warriors into tanks.
What happened to tanks anyhow? I see the forums littered with threads about WnS warriors need not apply, 2H has taken your jobs. Granted air of insolence was a little over the top, but no need to make 2H > everything.
I do miss being able to play as other than human, at least half of the replayability is gone.

[Alelsa]

I'll start off by saying that after reading the initial backlash on the forums, I had begun to dread starting the game. As I'm in the UK I had a couple of days to read peoples reactions before it actually arrived.

I'm happy to say I was pleasantly surprised to find I didn't share the majority of negative opinions I'd read. It just took me a little while to adjust to the change of direction from DA:O.

I was initially disappointed by being confined to the city and surrounding area, but once the story cut in and hooked me, I noticed it less and less. I'm not a big fan of "world maps" anyway, as I prefer a fully explorable game world (such as in Oblivion and Fallout), so by removing the need for a wider area completely I didn't really miss anything. The recycled areas however really did seem like a nasty, cheap shortcut. If it came down to it, I'd have even prefered the modular tile-based scenery of NWN because at least there was some scope for variety of layouts. If I could make one change to the game, it would be to include more area maps.

I'd have preferred "junk" to be labelled "other", and have a mix of items that could be useful and red herrings. If its all pre-defined junk then there's little point even including it, while putting in things such as lockpick tools, scraps of paper with clues to puzzles, half-drawn maps to hidden treasure, and the like would make me feel I'm actually having to think my way through the game a bit. If I'm desperate enough to be picking up items such as torn trousers to sell for a few coppers, then I might as well start picking up every single piece of flotsam and jetsam on the screen that isn't nailed down - hey, let me pick up the expensive candelabras in the mansions at least!

One of the things I've always loved about RPGs is that they tend to have little things added that will each only appeal to maybe 1% of players, like being able to bake bread from ingredients in the old Ultima games. The other 99% can happily rush on by without investigating that flour sack, but it makes me feel that someone actually bothered creating a game world if I can go poking around that kind of thing. On a similar note, let me have my non-combat skills, please - let me train to sneak past enemies, pick their pockets, repair/manufacture my own equipment. Don't make it compulsory to finish the game, but include the option for people that want it.

Day one DLC: I loved the idea. It make me feel I was a valued customer for bothering to preorder six months ago. Would have been even nicer if the signature edition had come in a fancy box with a (cloth) map of Thedas, of course!

Puzzles: Where were my puzzles to solve?   My room of teleporters that I have to map out on paper to find out which one takes me where I want to go?  My sliding blocks that open the secret door when arranged in a certain pattern?

Companion conversations: I'd have liked more opportunities to interact with them. Even if it was just an extra dialogue tree for each that we could work through when they weren't ready to discuss a specific matter, where we could ask them about themselves, etc.

As has been evident with this release, you now have a varied range of customers to please. Please bear that in mind with DA3, and try to make a game that gives everyone what they want. It isn't impossible by any means. You have a "combat difficulty setting" - add an "immersion setting" too that affects the degree of micro-management the player has to do. For example with junk, at the lowest setting it gets automatically translated into cash. In the middle you get it auto-categorised as junk. At the highest setting, the player has to figure out for themselves if its a red herring object or not. Oh, and let us turn off those damn quest arrows on maps if we want, too, it reminds me too much of the Questhelper addon for WoW (ugh). Personally, I'd like a "hardcore RPG" mode (as opposed to a hardcore combat difficulty) which makes us micro-manage our inventory and remember to eat and drink (again, something Bethesda seem to have managed to do in Fallout). Theres no reason why a game has to simply cater to the lowest common denominator - which leads me nicely to....

... don't eliminate features on the PC version just because consoles don't have the capacity to handle them. Note that unlike many, I'm blaming the consoles themselves here rather than the console players. Please write for the PC first, then cut/simplify/streamline the features that don't fit in on the consoles afterwards, rather than just porting the console version to the PC and adding mouse and keyboard controls. A game like this can't be written as a "one size fits all" solution for hardware any more than it can for different types of player. This is obviously evident from the complaints of some console players that the text is too small on a non-HD TV. Think about your audienceS, not your audience, and add in some customisation for them. Personally, I feel being able to customise the game experience would be far more useful than being able to customise the main character (something I initially thought I'd miss, but was happy to find I didn't). I'm not asking you to write three different games, just add a bunch of checkboxes to let people turn off things they don't want in their game (e.g. eating+drinking, inventory management, junk, exploding bodies+blood splatters, whether companions manage their own equipment, whether time passes and night falls on its own, etc).

Okay, that all sounds far more negative than I had originally intended. This is just how I'd improve on the game, it isn't by any means a list of things I hated - I loved DA2, other than those darned recycled areas!

Modifié par Alelsa, 17 mars 2011 - 03:02 .

[Sephrith Umdur]

 Ok, I will first say  I have not had time to read all 20 pages so far of this thread. I will try and avoid repeating things already said.



1. I miss having unique companions in terms of class and tactics. There are only three archetypes(sp) in the game (Rogue,Mage, Warrior) and if I recall correctly each archetype has two companions not including any DLC characters. The illusion of unique tactical choice is given by only allowing some skill trees for each character such as Varric being unable to learn duel wield and Fernis being unable to use sword and shield. This however is artificially limiting, they are still rouges or warriors and no matter the weapon they still serve the same role in combat, it is only at what range and to what effect they perform this role. I want a return to the BG or JE days where each companion was a separate class and they all had their own purposes in combat that nobody else could fill. 



2. I have read a few posts saying how they enjoyed the 3 year delay between acts, while I respect their opinions I personally do not feel that way. The whole city of Kirkwall is turned upside down and more throughout the game and that part I love, but having large gaps in the story just feels odd and at some times immersion breaking. Why are the characters that have such strong convictions about achieving there goals not achieving them in this downtime. In two weeks you finish act one and get some much accomplished, did really nothing happen in the next three years that was worth playing? If the game had taken place over say two years that would have felt much better. There would be a sense of excitement and change instead of slow progress. I want to play a game where the world is changing, it is changing fast and I had best keep up.



3. I think this has already been mentioned but I would like a bit more description to my dialogue choices especially the chance ones. I have on more than one occasion had to reload a pervious save because I misinterpreted a dialogue option and ended up doing something I did not want to. I would preferably like to go back to a DA:O dialogue choice system but maybe just put the symbols to the side, or change the text color to show the emotion behind each option.



4. I know the wave combat has been mentions but I have a bit of a different take on it. I would like more dangerous enemies instead of more enemies. I'm not talking about enemies with excessively large health bars, there is too much of that in modern games. I want enemies that can pack a punch but don't look ridicules taking 20 arrows to the face. The way I see it, my tank that I have build up to lvl 23 should not be vastly weaker than generic bandit assassin #256 and have 20 regular bandits act as cannon fodder for his escapades. I would much prefer only fighting 4 enemies but they are just as strong as my party, and its tactics and team work that will decide the outcome and not spamming skills and hoping that godlike assassin doesn't kill my healer first.



5. This is my final one, I want a stronger branching story. I liked the story over all but I didn't feel like I was missing much after my first playthrough. At the end of Origins I immediately started a new game to try all the other options and try the different character classes and races but at the end of DA2 I felt that I should just reload to right before the end of act three and just pick the other option. Overall Hawke is a static character, he/she is the Champion of Kirkwall and I just didn't feel that enough of the story would change to warrant and immediate playthough to see what I missed. What if it was possible to never go on the deep road expedition but instead try and make a new life for yourself with the 50 sovereign? What if because of your pro-mage ways you were denied your estate in Krikwall and had to set up a small home outside the city and live as a rejected apostate? What if because of your pro-templar ways Meredith offered you a position within the templars and you have to chose to be a mage sympathizer or be the new advocate for tranquility, maybe even perform it on a mage of choice yourself? These are the kind of decisions that I think would offer more replay ability. You need choices that once the game is over it burrows into the gamers head until they have no choice but to find out what would have happened if they had picked a different path.

Edited for formating 

Modifié par Sephrith Umdur, 17 mars 2011 - 03:24 .

[Gosian]

 I would first like to say, fantastic job to all of you who worked on this game.
I think I can speak for the vast majority in saying we appreciate all the time and effort you put into this.
 A few things that I have noticed and feel need to be mentioned, if I mention things that others have I'm sorry I havent read all the reply/posts in here.

1. Weather effects would really add to the feel of the game.

2. Some epic weapon / armor quests for high lvl characters. I have noticed that the weapons seem to plateu well before you reach lvl cap.

3. I would really have liked to play year by year instead of a year here three years there. I do understand development constraints, but as you have left this open for a third game I feel I need to mention this. I felt robbed of time developing my character in this as you could really set tone and reputation through that first year.

4. I noticed a significant lack of rogue gear, lots of mage and warrior choices just not so much in the way of rogue. I'm on my second play through at this point with at least 4 to go for classes.

5. I really love the new look keep it up.

6. I would have loved to wonder around the free marches, it just felt a bit small in contrast to to the first game which I played through a number of times.

Thank you for giving us a place to voice or opinions, its nice to know the dev team is listening.

[Midarc]

(reposting this from another thread, now I've noticed this one.
yeah, I shoulda looked first, but got writing, posted and realised it'd probably be better here...
it's late where I am, I'm tired! leave me alone!)

I'm caught inbetween camps in regard to like/dislike of DA2...
No, that's not right.
At most, I'd be a 'mildly dissatisfied', not a dislike.
Anyway.
Mechanically it's different, but that's a tolerable change.
Oh, I'd have loved to see a tactical view again and a bit more variety in locale wouldn't have gone amiss, but those aren't exactly the focus of what little discontent I have.
It's the story.

I've really enjoyed DA2 for the most part.
The story is fine, just set on a different scale to that told in DA:O and enjoyable in its own right.
It may not be epic (sorry EPIC) like it's predecessor, but it does have it's enjoyable qualities of its own.
I do feel a little constrained by it at times, but that in itself is valid a component of the narrative and there is a synchronisity in this when you consider the story elements that focus on the denial of player and npc choice from external and internal sources.
Thematically it's sound.
It's the railroading that gets to me.

It's not the presence of railroading that's the issue, you understand.
Let me explain.
In any game, you sometimes have to weather a little railroading for the sake of the plot.
If you didn't?
well, it'd be an early 'game over' screen or a 4th wall breaking 'if you want to play the game, you'd better say yes.'
It's impossible to create a game that caters to every possible response a player could give to a situation.
You either learn to live with it or you find yourself a set of D&D books with a very forgiving DM attatched to them.

My problem with DA2 in this regard is that when it does occur, theres no room for dissent.
Avoidance of spoilers will make it tricky to elaborate here.
Suffice to say, occasionally Hawkes available choices to a situation felt a little out of my hands.
It was assumed I'd want to perform the task.
I had a diplomatic acceptance, a sarcastic acceptance and a gruff acceptance.
No option to say 'sod this' and then, if the task was plot essential, be dragged back on track kicking and screaming at worst or gruffly tolerant at best.
Just the implicit understanding that Hawke had already decided to do this, and I'd better decide which of the three ways he wanted to do it.

This was my 'princess and the pea' moment, if you'll excuse the self depreciation.
The first of a couple of times in the story that I felt control of character slip.
That's the important thing you see.
Not that everything the character has to do be controlled, but that we should control how the character feels about it.
Otherwise?
Well, we're just along for the ride.

tldr?
It's ok but Waaah. (if you can't be arsed to read it, that'll do ya)

Modifié par Midarc, 17 mars 2011 - 03:32 .

[Ronin2006]

Dragon Age 2 was extremely disappointing to me on a number of levels. It wasn’t horrible, but if I had known it would turn out like it did I certainly wouldn’t have spent any money on it.

I have provided my own criticisms and tried to keep them as objective and constructive as possible. I hope that someone from Bioware takes the time to read and consider these points. I am not being abusive, and respect the effort made here, but honestly, as a loyal customer I expected a better product.

Combat/Gameplay: The combat is much less rewarding. I cannot tell you how much my sense of immersion was lost when my level 1 character caused literally 4 dark spawn to explode with a single swipe of their weapon during the opening parts of the game. Then as the story progressed there were numerous times that characters would simply just re-spawn during a battle, and literally drop straight from the sky. This was ridiculous. I don’t know if this was an attempt make the game more challenging, but from a gameplay point of view it didn’t make sense. I would rather have less opponents who are more difficult/challenging then battles against literally dozens of weak respawning enemies. There was a sense that some of the weaker battlefield opponents were simply filler. I shouldn’t be able to kill 4-5 bandits/darkspawn/spiders by simply pressing a button. (upping the difficulty level doesn’t really solve this problem either as you just end up facing the same hordes of easy opponents and it’s only really the stronger ones that are a concern)

I understand during the early press-releases it was mentioned that “you push a button and something awesome happens.” Well, while watching my character smash a whole lot of dark spawn in one hit the first time might have been “awesome”, after a 30+ hour campaign, it’s no longer awesome and just plain tedious. This isn’t Dynasty Warriors, and if you want the game to be like that, you can expect the sales to be as low as Dynasty Warriors, and relevance of the game to be like Dynasty Warriors.

Story: The story lacked cohesion and structure. The three segments of the game were not really connected together for any purpose. In Mass Effect 1 I always knew that I would have to find a way of stopping Saren and the Geth, and the game accordingly built up to that moment. In Dragon Age Origins I knew I was going to have to stop the blight and the darkspawn invasions. The story would build up organically and develop over the course of the game. Instead, in Dragon Age 2 I have an entire Act devoted to accumulating money so that Varric’s brother can make a journey to the deep roads and I can get more money; hardly an inspiring or exciting idea.

The fact that this Act takes over a third of the story is quite frustrating. Story build-up is one thing, but this seemed unnecessary. The third Act where Anders has his “moment” was unexpected and didn’t really make sense. It was like justifying any sort of ridiculous behaviour by using the “he is insane” card, instead of creating a plausible or believable story. Overall, having three largely separate stories as opposed to one single epic theme with other branching storylines makes for an overall far less engrossing experience.

Dungeons/Levels: I’m sure you have heard this numerous times, however re-using the same dungeons levels throughout the game was a really poor choice. I understand there may be challenges in creating additional levels (such as disc space, game development time frame etc), but if the developers could not for whatever reason, design a new level for every quest, then we don’t need so many quests; we don’t need to see the same area 5-6 times. It makes the game feel “padded.” It seemed like a 30-40 hour campaign with only enough ‘real’ content for a 10-15 hour game. I’m sure that most fans would be willing to wait an extra year or two for a more complete experience.

Bad Quest Design: Too often a quest involved running around from one part of Kirkwall to another simply to hand one item found in one part of the world to another person in another part. Further, unlike Dragon Age Origins, there is not a campsite that allows easy access to discussions with other party members. Therefore, every time I wanted to talk to Anders or Aveline for a quest, (and as most of you reading this know, many quests simply required you to talk to party members) I had to run around and spend a few minutes going to their “base.” Once again, this game design made the game further feel “padded” as there was no reason to simply just run around for the sake of it.

Kirkwall: One of the great features of Dragon Age Origins was the varied environments. From the Magi tower, to the elf city, to the deep roads, and then the human cities of Ferelden, there was amazing variety. There is only one city in Dragon Age 2 and it is largely empty, and quite generic. It is mostly a human inhabited city, and there is not that much contrast between say Lowtown, Hightown and Darktown. I couldn’t begin to describe to you how much more I enjoyed the (rather short, but soon to be repetitive) journey to the deep roads at the end of Act 1. I enjoyed it because it was different. The game finally gave me at least some semblance of variety in gameplay, but unfortunately this was the last time I saw a new environment. Further, I believe that this is not an aspect of the game that really just applies to “hardcore” RPG gamers as I believe that anyone, regardless of their taste in genre, prefers varied settings and environments. The size of the city and environments is much smaller and less varied than the first game, and this shows.

Trying too hard to appeal to a broad audience: After contacting a senior producer at Bioware about my concerns that Bioware risked alienating existing fans by creating a game that tried to appeal to the Call of Duty audience and didn’t do enough for the original fans, I was told that gamers are developing and changing and that they now play across many genres and therefore it wasn’t a risk that a big part of the Call of Duty audience wouldn’t be interested in a ‘Dragon Age’ game.

My response to this is that yes, I like many other gamers do play games across many genres. My friends and I regularly have FIFA nights, and I do enjoy the odd shooter, or even platformer. However, herein lies a problem. When I purchase a FIFA game, I expect a football/soccer simulator. When I purchase a Call of Duty game, I expect a war themed FPS and while I appreciate the ambition of this game to appeal to everyone, the fact remains that when I buy something with the name “Dragon Age” on it, I expect something more along the lines of what the first Dragon Age was. The fact is that having released a game called Dragon Age, a precedent has been set and expectations regarding the direction of the series are set accordingly.

Think about it this way, if there was a new release called Call of Duty 7 and it was made into a third person shooter with RPG elements and stripped of much of its online content and turned into a mostly single player affair then people would be outraged. You have released a traditional RPG, and turned the sequel into an action game, and of course people are angry. Ultimately, I don’t want the exact same game as Dragon Age Origins, but I do expect something that plays similar, or at least feels like a similar experience. Further, I am not opposed to change, if it improves or enhances my playing experience then it is more than welcome, however I believe that many of the changes were made for the worse and personally damaged my playing experience. The actiony/cartoony style and direction clearly designed to make the game more ‘mainstream’ changed the experience and style too drastically for the game to appeal to fans of the original game.

On a more personal/subjective level I had some other gripes. Romancing Merill would be like some sort of form of virtual paedophilia. The elves look more like young boys than interesting fantasy elves. The lack of customisation and equipment for my party is disappointing. Perhaps this could be an optional part of the game if at all possible. Just because some of the audience likes things simple and streamlined, doesn’t mean they all do. You seem to have created a conundrum here, please the ‘hardcore’ or please the ‘casuals’. Ultimately, this problem is Bioware’s own creation by trying to expand their audience and please everyone, creating a messy in-between that doesn’t really please anyone. I don’t mind the dialogue wheel, but honestly, it made the game feel like I was a child and needed to be guided everywhere. This dialogue wheel and pictures should (if at all possible) be an optional part of the game.

Things I liked included: The voice acting (though there was not enough variation for Hawke, and I personally don’t mind a silent protagonist), the soundtrack (though it was too recycled), the new Qunari design, the ability to bring the Mabari into combat, and some of the new spell/battle animations.

Hopefully someone from Bioware reads this very honest post. Dragon Age 2 was the only game I have ever pre-ordered and unfortunately has lead me to believe that from now on I will wait till after release before parting from my cash so readily. I sincerely hope that Bioware can return to form in their next release, however next time I won’t be putting down my cash so readily.

Modifié par Ronin2006, 17 mars 2011 - 03:32 .

[Zilod]

i was very disappointed by the demo and i admit i was quite wrong... i really enjoyed the game, its character and its story that seem to be more about a group of friends who face the difficulties of a city like kirkwall rather than the usual "lets save the world".

said that i feel DA2 had a rushed feeling in it... the game have quite a few bugs (even some pretty big ones), the same map is used over and over and over again, breaking immersion any enjoyment for exploration. the items with same name, so everytime i search a ring i have to mouseover 4-5 of them

then there are some "minor" criticism....

the combat imo is very interesting, i like its faster pace and the multi wave or complex encounters, still i feel a good portion of strategy is gone... i also agree about the "mob popping", it will be way nicer to have mobs come out of doors or certain (more intuitive) paths, something that will help the strategic factor too, rather than the usual popping in circle around the group.

so, as siad, i think the new combat is very interesting and have good potential, but it need to be refined to make it a bit more tactical and belivable.


companions dialogues is my last complain... not because they are not good (quite the oppsite!) but because, as was alredy noted, we kinda get to know them only in reguard of the story rather than their real personality or their past... in this game we kinda get their opinion in reguard of what is happening (and thats very nice) but thats kinda it.

in DAO there was a veeery nice evolution in our companions, both in reguard of the main character (i really liked the fact that we get to know more and more of their past and their feeling as we befriended them) and in reguard of each other with banders telling us some "mini stories" and showing us not only how a companion saw another one, but also how that idea changed as they interacted and knew them better (eg Wynne and Shale, with the mage that in the end decided to help Shale on her journey to return a dwarf)

[PirateT138]

I really, really dislike that companion's health/sta(mana) bars are proportional to the largest one.

It really skews the sense of what kind of condition my allies are really in when they have tiny little health bars (only because mine is so very large).

Ally health/mana should be a static bar size and reflect only what % the ally is at out of their maximum. It's silly the way it is currently, why this was changed from the original is beyond me.

[bloodshed17]

How about having the Staff of Parthalan level up with the character? It is in my opinion the best looking staff in the game but you pretty much out grow it by the end of Act 1.When I saw Hawke using it in the Destiny trailer I knew I had to have it. Just my opinion of course.

I thought it was a great game. The only major gripe I had was the use of the same maps for everything. Other than that and some minor stuff I thought it was a great game. Well done.

On a side note: Varric was by far my favorite companinon. Brian Bloom (I think that is his name?) did a fantastic job.

Modifié par bloodshed17, 17 mars 2011 - 03:54 .