Overall, I have to say I've enjoyed DA2 more than Origins. I could spend all day talking about the things I love - characters, story and storytelling, the themes of the game, companions, sidequests, combat (I love being able to leap out of the way of an ogre) , the framed narrative, the really difficult choices with no clear-cut good/evil outcome - I can't remember the last time a game forced so many moral and ethical dilemmas on me. Bloody Marvellous! The c&c in this game is Immense. I keep feeling like I'm getting punched in the face by decisions made in previous Acts. Love the tie-ins/cameos with Origins. A real improvement on the previous game. Graphically very pretty. Day/night toggle excellent idea and quests that could only be performed at a certain time - now that was a clever way of re-using areas. Friendship/Rivalry much better than gift giving and playing nice just to get someone's personal quest. DA2 is now in my list of top 5 favourite games. So thanks for all the hard work everybody xx
But this is a criticism thread.
Yes, these have all been said - but I guess it's good to reinforce them! Errr, this is going to be long. Sorry.
Environments
You must be so tired of hearing this by now, but yep, the recycled environments were a drag. The little exploration that there was quickly became tedious, which is a shame because it undermined just how pretty areas such as the wounded coast actually were, and because a bit of exploring is an important part of such a big game. It was really obvious that the maps were exactly the same too, just with different bits blocked off. A fog of war on the minimap would have helped maintain the illusion a bit, and some different lighting/colour filters; but in the end, a more diverse selection of environments is the only answer that could really satisfy.
Kirkwall seemed a bit lifeless, sometimes. Interiors were fine - the Hanged Man was great for example, but outside, things seemed overly sparse and quiet. It was alot better than Denerim, imo, but it needed a bit more oomph! Rowdy crowds of drunks wandering Lowtown at night, a group of protestors outside the Chantry or Viscount's Palace at different times, the odd occasion when the marketplace is really busy. All these things (and more) would increase the sense of Kirkwall being a living, breathing city without taxing everyone's computers too much.
If you're telling a story that takes place over time, you need to show (not just tell us about) things changing over time. Fenris's mansion, for example. After six years, it still has the same corpses and cobwebs that were there when we cleared the house. Okay, so Fenris isn't exactly houseproud, but at least turn the corpses into bones or something! It's a bit jarring when the story being told isn't complemented by what you're seeing.
Combat
I didn't mind the waves of enemies. I found combat in general to be much more tactical and satisfying than Origins (playing on PC, btw), and visually it was superb. I didn't like that certain enemy skills, such as overwhelm, were absent, though, because it made creatures such as spiders and mabari seem a lot less threatening - in Origins I would get a feeling of genuine trepidation at fighting a group of wolves, a worry absent in DA2. I also didn't like that enemies would spawn out of thin air, often right on top of my character. This was aggravating because I like to play tactically and to find good defensive positions for my weaker party members. This is rendered pointless if a couple of bad guys can appear from thin air, literally anywhere. I liked corpses bursting through the ground, raiders running round the corner or jumping down from windows, spiders dropping from the ceiling. That showed a lot more thought.
I also didn't like the non reactivity of Kirkwall NPCs as I was fighting. On more than one occasion, passersby would wander into the crossfire talking about their shopping or whatever. They should have been cowering or running away or something. Likewise, city guards would stand motionless as I fought waves of gangmembers. Wouldn't they join in?
classes
I agree with AFW - archers need their own class. Or at the very least an extra group/tree of skills devoted to ranged combat. The whole rogue skill set seems much more set up for playing a dual wielder. As awesome as some of the archery skills are, I'm getting more satisfaction from playing Varric or Sebastian as archers, than I am from playing Hawke, and I feel that both of those characters are actually far more effective than Hawke in battle (Kickback rocks!). I guess this is because they both have unique skill sets that are designed completely around ranged weapons. Once my Hawke had maximised archery, I struggled to find abilities that would complement what she'd already learned, without turning her into a dual wielder.
Mages are awesome. Almost every time there's a 'last person standing' situation at the end of a battle, that person is Anders. But for anyone who doesn't like Anders or want him along all the time, there's a problem. He's the only mage in the game with access to advanced healing powers (such as multiple healing/reviving fallen party members). It can be really expensive constantly stocking up on potions. And as compelling (if not likeable) as I find Anders to be, I dislike being so reliant on one companion.
Companions
The homebases are a good idea. Or, at least, it's a good idea to have some characters with day jobs - Aveline in the barracks and Anders in the clinic really work, I think. But there also needs to be a place where they are all together, or at least a screen accessed from the Options menu where I can look at everyone's stats and sort through their kit. The campsite in Origins was great - I could sort through everyone's inventory, buy stuff from Bodahn, have a chat with everyone, without having to go to loads of different places, and constantly switch out party members. Perhaps everyone should have a room in the Hanged Man - from their room (much like the lockers in Mass Effect), you can change their personal effects, check their stats etc, even go directly to their home/place of work etc.
Wasn't too bothered about limited outfits, but maybe instead of just one outfit with a couple of upgrades (that still looks exactly the same after a decade) , you could find several different outfits for each companion on your travels. Would make them look a bit more interesting and give a greater sense of customisation.
Inventory
Please stop labelling things as 'junk'. I don't mind if that's what it is, effectively, but I want to make up my own mind.
Oh my God, that's quite long enough. Sorry. Again. And I really did adore the game, and am going now to start again as a Mage.
Constructive Criticism
Débuté par
HawXV2
, mars 15 2011 06:50
Retour en haut
#602
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 04:11
meanieweenie
-
- Members
- 3 501 messages
#5 having just re-converted back to PC gaming, the one thing that DA:O had me hooked on, was over the head tactical view. Very important for archers and mages.. where is it? Why was it removed?
Excellent point... I concur.
Excellent point... I concur.
#603
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 04:35
Farlington
-
- Members
- 20 messages
Quest logs...
Playing the game the following day (Act 1) from a marathon drinking/gaming session the night before, I had no idea of WHY I was doing certain quests. I'd obviously been accepting every quest as it came along during the drunken evening, which meant I had 20 quests with a very basic description which didn't keep a history of what had already occurred.
This meant the following days play through was just following the dots. No fun at all. Game restarted because of it and this time I had to pick one quest at a time and stick to it until complete so I'd know WHY I was doing what I was doing.
I was also disappointed to find out that a large chunk of quests had no quest giver, just a found item then a quest marker to a 50 silver dispensing npc. It felt entirely stuck on as an afterthought and dropped me back into "you are playing a game" mode.
I'm still in Act 1, today I'll start the deep roads mission, but already I'm fed up of repeated maps. What was going through your minds when you guys were playtesting this game? It's really in your face "you are playing a game" that I was not expecting from your "normally very good at this thing" gaming studio.
Low res NPC padding wasn't too noticeable at first, but sometimes you are in a cutscene with them in the background which draws your attention. Presumably it's to keep frame rates up in the consoles, but why do I need this on the PC where things like this are much more noticeable?
I'm not trying to turn this into a PC's are better than consoles argument. They are different than consoles insomuch as you sit close to the screen and things like this stick out like a sore thumb (or Bethanys hand).
Overall thumbs up from me regarding the game overall (so far). Combat is too fast for my old eyes to keep up with, but I suppose that's more to do with me than the game and the sound levels seem to be all over the place, but again this might be my own faulty equipment.
Playing the game the following day (Act 1) from a marathon drinking/gaming session the night before, I had no idea of WHY I was doing certain quests. I'd obviously been accepting every quest as it came along during the drunken evening, which meant I had 20 quests with a very basic description which didn't keep a history of what had already occurred.
This meant the following days play through was just following the dots. No fun at all. Game restarted because of it and this time I had to pick one quest at a time and stick to it until complete so I'd know WHY I was doing what I was doing.
I was also disappointed to find out that a large chunk of quests had no quest giver, just a found item then a quest marker to a 50 silver dispensing npc. It felt entirely stuck on as an afterthought and dropped me back into "you are playing a game" mode.
I'm still in Act 1, today I'll start the deep roads mission, but already I'm fed up of repeated maps. What was going through your minds when you guys were playtesting this game? It's really in your face "you are playing a game" that I was not expecting from your "normally very good at this thing" gaming studio.
Low res NPC padding wasn't too noticeable at first, but sometimes you are in a cutscene with them in the background which draws your attention. Presumably it's to keep frame rates up in the consoles, but why do I need this on the PC where things like this are much more noticeable?
I'm not trying to turn this into a PC's are better than consoles argument. They are different than consoles insomuch as you sit close to the screen and things like this stick out like a sore thumb (or Bethanys hand).
Overall thumbs up from me regarding the game overall (so far). Combat is too fast for my old eyes to keep up with, but I suppose that's more to do with me than the game and the sound levels seem to be all over the place, but again this might be my own faulty equipment.
#604
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 04:41
Timon44
-
- Members
- 158 messages
I think the music that is played during fights is too hectic. Especially in the kinds of fights that last over 20 minutes I would like a calmer tune far better.
#605
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 04:44
Cybermortis
-
- Members
- 1 083 messages
Both Mass Effect and Dragon Age; Origins/Awakening worked so well because you were dropped into the middle of a story. In DAO you started out playing 'a day in the life', which allowed you to get a feel as to where the character came from. This gave you a basis on which you view the world you were playing in, which in turn allowed you to see how deep and complex the world was.
From this start you moved on to Ostagar, which expanded the understanding of the world and ultimatly showed you what the rest of the game was about. This nicely set up a duel plot on which all your actions revolved around - stopping Logain and then the Archdemon.
Everything that followed in the game revolved around this, all of the main quests were being done because you had to do them in order to deal with the main protaganist(s). Side quests were largely that, quests you could take outside the main plot for a change of pace or money/equipment. Indeed several of the side-quests were directly related to what you had done in the game up to that point.
Your companions were likewise related to the plot, and had viable and logical reasons for joining you.
All of this is simply missing from Dragon Age 2.
There simply is no protagonist here that binds everything together. Nothing to show you where Hawke came from, or allow you to get any connection to the rest of the family. And no sense that this is a 'real' world. The side quests - especially in Act 1 - become things you need to do for the main plot, without any logic as to why. Hawke can even note this right at the start when talking to Varic - basically noting that if they had the money to become partners in the expedition they wouldn't need to go in the first place. Side quests should be things you can choose to do, not have to do.
Choice is the other loser here, regardless of any claims made none of the choices really effect the outcome of anything. Be it dialog or how prior decisions affect the end - in DAO the ending is strongly affected by the choices you made when bringing your army together...or even on occasion in some of the side quests.
What made Mass Effect and DAO so well recieved was that the stories of both games overcame problems in other areas. I could forgive the inventory system in ME because, well, I wanted to get to the end of the story. Not so here.
If the story had been put together FAR better, with events flowing logically from what you had done before. With the decisions you made - rather than those forced on you - shaping events after, and showing you where Hawke came from the game would have worked better. The story also suffered from having no clear protagonist for Hawke - no individual you were aiming to vanquish from the start. There were maybe two characters you wanted to kill, but their presence and involvement was limited with everyone else who could have fitted into this role failing to drum up much of an urge (if any) to see hacked into small parts.
The lack of real choice is another stumbling block. I can understand why the developers would wish to have limited outfits for companions - it reduces the amount of work needed. However doing this makes the option for buying armour, and of course armour drops, redundant. Two-thirds of all armour can't be worn by Hawke regardless of chosen class.
Companions, as in the party as a whole, feel badly thought out. You are effectively stuck with one tank and one healer and can't do anything about this - of the three mages in the party one of them doesn't have access to healing spells at all. This means that you realistically you have to choose those two characters all the time, leaving you with only one spare slot unless you are willing and able to fill one of those roles yourself.
All of this comes across as either rushed or downright lazy - I mean how difficult would it have been to give the generic rings/belts a generic name - such as WoW's 'Of the eagle' - based on the stats they had?
Some ideas as to what they should have done/do;
Start in a similar way to DAO - a day in the life of the Hawke family in Lothering. This would introduce the various family members, allow you to interact with them and get to know them. Combat at this stage could have been a basic quest to clear the road of, say, bandits with the added bonus of a small cut scene of the Warden walking off into the distance with the rest of his/her party. (This would also allow the game to nod at DAO since the companions would be those the Warden recruited).
Then the game could cut to the flight from Lothering, with the father sacrificing himself to allow the others to escape - if he was seen to die at the hands of a distinctive Dark Spawn that creature could reappear in the Deep Roads at a later time. Maybe this was one of the driving forces for Hawke wanting to go down there in act 1.
Then we can get into the flight in what is currently the introduction.
Companion armour/outfits - I can understand, from a development point of view, why it would be desirable to have limited models of your companions. In practice however this makes two-thirds of all armour in the game pointless. The simple way around this would be to allow you to give armour to companions, but keep the same armour model with a slight colour or detail change - for example adding the dragon markings to Avaline's basic armour if you equip her with that armour. This could be explained in-game by making any given armour then customised for that character alone. The upgrades for companion armour could then be retained too.
From this start you moved on to Ostagar, which expanded the understanding of the world and ultimatly showed you what the rest of the game was about. This nicely set up a duel plot on which all your actions revolved around - stopping Logain and then the Archdemon.
Everything that followed in the game revolved around this, all of the main quests were being done because you had to do them in order to deal with the main protaganist(s). Side quests were largely that, quests you could take outside the main plot for a change of pace or money/equipment. Indeed several of the side-quests were directly related to what you had done in the game up to that point.
Your companions were likewise related to the plot, and had viable and logical reasons for joining you.
All of this is simply missing from Dragon Age 2.
There simply is no protagonist here that binds everything together. Nothing to show you where Hawke came from, or allow you to get any connection to the rest of the family. And no sense that this is a 'real' world. The side quests - especially in Act 1 - become things you need to do for the main plot, without any logic as to why. Hawke can even note this right at the start when talking to Varic - basically noting that if they had the money to become partners in the expedition they wouldn't need to go in the first place. Side quests should be things you can choose to do, not have to do.
Choice is the other loser here, regardless of any claims made none of the choices really effect the outcome of anything. Be it dialog or how prior decisions affect the end - in DAO the ending is strongly affected by the choices you made when bringing your army together...or even on occasion in some of the side quests.
What made Mass Effect and DAO so well recieved was that the stories of both games overcame problems in other areas. I could forgive the inventory system in ME because, well, I wanted to get to the end of the story. Not so here.
If the story had been put together FAR better, with events flowing logically from what you had done before. With the decisions you made - rather than those forced on you - shaping events after, and showing you where Hawke came from the game would have worked better. The story also suffered from having no clear protagonist for Hawke - no individual you were aiming to vanquish from the start. There were maybe two characters you wanted to kill, but their presence and involvement was limited with everyone else who could have fitted into this role failing to drum up much of an urge (if any) to see hacked into small parts.
The lack of real choice is another stumbling block. I can understand why the developers would wish to have limited outfits for companions - it reduces the amount of work needed. However doing this makes the option for buying armour, and of course armour drops, redundant. Two-thirds of all armour can't be worn by Hawke regardless of chosen class.
Companions, as in the party as a whole, feel badly thought out. You are effectively stuck with one tank and one healer and can't do anything about this - of the three mages in the party one of them doesn't have access to healing spells at all. This means that you realistically you have to choose those two characters all the time, leaving you with only one spare slot unless you are willing and able to fill one of those roles yourself.
All of this comes across as either rushed or downright lazy - I mean how difficult would it have been to give the generic rings/belts a generic name - such as WoW's 'Of the eagle' - based on the stats they had?
Some ideas as to what they should have done/do;
Start in a similar way to DAO - a day in the life of the Hawke family in Lothering. This would introduce the various family members, allow you to interact with them and get to know them. Combat at this stage could have been a basic quest to clear the road of, say, bandits with the added bonus of a small cut scene of the Warden walking off into the distance with the rest of his/her party. (This would also allow the game to nod at DAO since the companions would be those the Warden recruited).
Then the game could cut to the flight from Lothering, with the father sacrificing himself to allow the others to escape - if he was seen to die at the hands of a distinctive Dark Spawn that creature could reappear in the Deep Roads at a later time. Maybe this was one of the driving forces for Hawke wanting to go down there in act 1.
Then we can get into the flight in what is currently the introduction.
Companion armour/outfits - I can understand, from a development point of view, why it would be desirable to have limited models of your companions. In practice however this makes two-thirds of all armour in the game pointless. The simple way around this would be to allow you to give armour to companions, but keep the same armour model with a slight colour or detail change - for example adding the dragon markings to Avaline's basic armour if you equip her with that armour. This could be explained in-game by making any given armour then customised for that character alone. The upgrades for companion armour could then be retained too.
#606
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 05:06
MPSai
-
- Members
- 1 366 messages
I think the biggest problem facing the Dragon Age series is rushed releases. And the problems started with Awakening.
Origins was great. It was a throwback to the oldschool fantasy RPGs. The characters were well-rounded and obviously had alot of love put into them. Now I know there's probably pressure form the publisher to capitalize on the first surprise hit, but this is really what's killing it.
First Awakening felt like a bad movie sequel where only the B actors had a return. The story was lackluster and not having your party from Origins was gravely disappointing. It felt cheap to suddenly be introduced to a whole new cast that wasn't as interersting and didn't have nearly as much time to be developed. An expansion pack should necessitate the first game, I think it was a mistake to try to cater to new players over existing fans (that's what the sequel was for.) Why let people start a new Warden? I understand there are complications in keeping in the Origin crew since you could choose not to recruit any of them, but hell Mass Effect 2 still involved Garrus and Tali under the same conditions didn't it?
When I heard there was an expansion I fully expected to have my Warden embarking on a new adventure with his lover Zevran and his best friend Alistair (two characters who were still with me according to the epilouge...sorta messed up Alistair's marriage arrangements when I let him kill his fiancee's father), as well as other friends. Obviously Morrigan was out, but was there really any reason not to bring Leliana and Wynne back? What about Shale? What else does she have to do? or Sten? Where's he gonna go?
I agree with Angry Joe's review that DA2 feels more like a reboot than a sequel. It's sad that it now seems the series is trying to distance itself from Origins as much as possible. Origins is a brilliant game, even if it's a bit niche. What we need is a Dragon Age game with a longer development cycle, if these games just keep getting shoved out on a yearly basis it's going to continue to degrade. There is a huge, awesome world that could be developed a fully explored. To be confined to one city is frustrating. So is only being able to talk to your companions in painfully short conversations at set events. I could spend an hour running around camp in Origins listening to a dialog string from each companion. And each of these characters are more than they appear to be on the surface. The companions in DA2, on the other had, are extremely archtypical and predictable.
What I think we need is a DA3 a few years from now. One with the epic scale of Origins and a more polished version of the art style of DA2 (except... maybe not make the elves look so weird.) I want to go all over Thedas. I want to see Fereldan again. I've wanted to go to Orlais and Antiva since the beginning. I want to see Tevinter now more than ever. And I long for these places to be distinctive with many cities and areas to visit. I also want race selection again. This would be my dream Dragon Age game. Come on Bioware, DA2 feels like you're trying to one-up Lionhead, instead of one-upping Bethesda which should be the real goal.
Origins was great. It was a throwback to the oldschool fantasy RPGs. The characters were well-rounded and obviously had alot of love put into them. Now I know there's probably pressure form the publisher to capitalize on the first surprise hit, but this is really what's killing it.
First Awakening felt like a bad movie sequel where only the B actors had a return. The story was lackluster and not having your party from Origins was gravely disappointing. It felt cheap to suddenly be introduced to a whole new cast that wasn't as interersting and didn't have nearly as much time to be developed. An expansion pack should necessitate the first game, I think it was a mistake to try to cater to new players over existing fans (that's what the sequel was for.) Why let people start a new Warden? I understand there are complications in keeping in the Origin crew since you could choose not to recruit any of them, but hell Mass Effect 2 still involved Garrus and Tali under the same conditions didn't it?
When I heard there was an expansion I fully expected to have my Warden embarking on a new adventure with his lover Zevran and his best friend Alistair (two characters who were still with me according to the epilouge...sorta messed up Alistair's marriage arrangements when I let him kill his fiancee's father), as well as other friends. Obviously Morrigan was out, but was there really any reason not to bring Leliana and Wynne back? What about Shale? What else does she have to do? or Sten? Where's he gonna go?
I agree with Angry Joe's review that DA2 feels more like a reboot than a sequel. It's sad that it now seems the series is trying to distance itself from Origins as much as possible. Origins is a brilliant game, even if it's a bit niche. What we need is a Dragon Age game with a longer development cycle, if these games just keep getting shoved out on a yearly basis it's going to continue to degrade. There is a huge, awesome world that could be developed a fully explored. To be confined to one city is frustrating. So is only being able to talk to your companions in painfully short conversations at set events. I could spend an hour running around camp in Origins listening to a dialog string from each companion. And each of these characters are more than they appear to be on the surface. The companions in DA2, on the other had, are extremely archtypical and predictable.
What I think we need is a DA3 a few years from now. One with the epic scale of Origins and a more polished version of the art style of DA2 (except... maybe not make the elves look so weird.) I want to go all over Thedas. I want to see Fereldan again. I've wanted to go to Orlais and Antiva since the beginning. I want to see Tevinter now more than ever. And I long for these places to be distinctive with many cities and areas to visit. I also want race selection again. This would be my dream Dragon Age game. Come on Bioware, DA2 feels like you're trying to one-up Lionhead, instead of one-upping Bethesda which should be the real goal.
#607
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 05:10
HawXV2
-
- Members
- 661 messages
MPSai wrote...
I think the biggest problem facing the Dragon Age series is rushed releases. And the problems started with Awakening.
Origins was great. It was a throwback to the oldschool fantasy RPGs. The characters were well-rounded and obviously had alot of love put into them. Now I know there's probably pressure form the publisher to capitalize on the first surprise hit, but this is really what's killing it.
First Awakening felt like a bad movie sequel where only the B actors had a return. The story was lackluster and not having your party from Origins was gravely disappointing. It felt cheap to suddenly be introduced to a whole new cast that wasn't as interersting and didn't have nearly as much time to be developed. An expansion pack should necessitate the first game, I think it was a mistake to try to cater to new players over existing fans (that's what the sequel was for.) Why let people start a new Warden? I understand there are complications in keeping in the Origin crew since you could choose not to recruit any of them, but hell Mass Effect 2 still involved Garrus and Tali under the same conditions didn't it?
When I heard there was an expansion I fully expected to have my Warden embarking on a new adventure with his lover Zevran and his best friend Alistair (two characters who were still with me according to the epilouge...sorta messed up Alistair's marriage arrangements when I let him kill his fiancee's father), as well as other friends. Obviously Morrigan was out, but was there really any reason not to bring Leliana and Wynne back? What about Shale? What else does she have to do? or Sten? Where's he gonna go?
I agree with Angry Joe's review that DA2 feels more like a reboot than a sequel. It's sad that it now seems the series is trying to distance itself from Origins as much as possible. Origins is a brilliant game, even if it's a bit niche. What we need is a Dragon Age game with a longer development cycle, if these games just keep getting shoved out on a yearly basis it's going to continue to degrade. There is a huge, awesome world that could be developed a fully explored. To be confined to one city is frustrating. So is only being able to talk to your companions in painfully short conversations at set events. I could spend an hour running around camp in Origins listening to a dialog string from each companion. And each of these characters are more than they appear to be on the surface. The companions in DA2, on the other had, are extremely archtypical and predictable.
What I think we need is a DA3 a few years from now. One with the epic scale of Origins and a more polished version of the art style of DA2 (except... maybe not make the elves look so weird.) I want to go all over Thedas. I want to see Fereldan again. I've wanted to go to Orlais and Antiva since the beginning. I want to see Tevinter now more than ever. And I long for these places to be distinctive with many cities and areas to visit. I also want race selection again. This would be my dream Dragon Age game. Come on Bioware, DA2 feels like you're trying to one-up Lionhead, instead of one-upping Bethesda which should be the real goal.
Really? If anything, Origins had more archetypes in it's companions than DA2.
#608
Guest_Brodyaha_*
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 05:14
Guest_Brodyaha_*
Guest_Brodyaha_*
-
- Guests
I know I don't make criticisms that are walls of text, and I don't know how helpful my critique is, but I really loved how my choices matter. I can see the consequences all within one gam. This gives the game enormous replayability, and makes things interesting but, especially, rewarding.
I may have mentioned that before, but it's worth mentioning again.
Also, most of the companions were awesome, well-rounded, and greatly developed, although my favourites were Varric, Anders, and Aveline.
I may have mentioned that before, but it's worth mentioning again.
Also, most of the companions were awesome, well-rounded, and greatly developed, although my favourites were Varric, Anders, and Aveline.
Modifié par Brodyaha, 17 mars 2011 - 05:14 .
#609
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 05:23
Vicious
-
- Members
- 3 221 messages
Thank you Bioware for the Voiced Protagonist.
Only problem with it was persuade/charm/threaten special responses didn't come up much.
Only problem with it was persuade/charm/threaten special responses didn't come up much.
#610
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 05:26
MPSai
-
- Members
- 1 366 messages
HawXV2 wrote...
Really? If anything, Origins had more archetypes in it's companions than DA2.
Even if they appeared to be at first, they're pretty subverted once you get to know them. Leliana is more than a religious freak, she has her own doubts and ideas and can even abandon her religion if you "harden" her. Zevran seems like a carefree flirt, but most of his jokes and flirting are huge defense mechanisms, if you follow his romance especially he's a pretty deep character. Of course there are exceptions, Sten is just... well, Sten. Though he's unintentionally hilarious. Morrigans a ****. Shale is the one that surprised me most, I expected a golem to be like an emotionless robot but I started cracking up when I realized how sarcastic she was.
Again maybe the real problem with the DA2 characters is how little you get to talk to and interact with them.
#611
Guest_Brodyaha_*
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 05:36
Guest_Brodyaha_*
Guest_Brodyaha_*
-
- Guests
Talking with them is important. And not just in quests that come up. Their character development is in their banter with each other, as well as surprise encounters when you visit areas.
#612
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 05:37
Alexander1136
-
- Members
- 431 messages
The OP basically said everything i would add that i would appreciate it if when i told my companions to hold position they wouldnt follow me straight in to a trap and get injured, or i leave them by the exit and then explore the cave when im done i switch to one by the exit and leave, i cant do that when they still follow you while hold postition is on.
I would also appreiciate a little more accuracy on our imports, if your warden said " im not going to help you be king" and then is mentioned returning to denirim, whilst you should have gone "beyond this world and beyond the fade" in your import idk that just seems cheap.
I would also appreiciate a little more accuracy on our imports, if your warden said " im not going to help you be king" and then is mentioned returning to denirim, whilst you should have gone "beyond this world and beyond the fade" in your import idk that just seems cheap.
#613
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 06:07
RedShft
-
- Members
- 672 messages
Agreed, thank you very much for this. Much appreciated!Vicious wrote...
Thank you Bioware for the Voiced Protagonist.
.
#614
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 06:23
Gr8pillock
-
- Members
- 73 messages
I'm so glad this thread is here, because I have things to say! 
Who knew?
To start, I want to say that I am on my third play through right now, so I am not going to say that the game is terrible, but it was disappointing. (In fact, my first play through, I was so disappointed that I almost didn't play again, but I'm so glad I did. That second play through saved the game for me. Thank the man who created Fenris and Inon Zur, because they singlehandedly made me love this game.)
I like to start positive, so I will say this first -
1) the soundtrack is brutally perfect. It is haunting, moving, and helps to create the world where I desperately love to escape to.
2) The game play and combat are pretty seamless. Some complain about button mashing, but I play as a Mage or Rogue and still pause at the beginning of each fight to go at them strategically, so it didn't really bother me. In fact, I found it as smooth as an Antivan.
3) You had some fantastic characters. Fenris is probably my favorite character that I've ever encountered in a video game, ever.
4) The return of previous DA:O party members and the events of DA:O being integratable. Fantastic.
5) The sibling consequences depending on your class choice. LOVED IT!
6) The in-play banter between a love interest Fenris, a married Aveline and Isabella was hilarious! I love the mystery of potential three way banter and want MORE. Perfect!
Now, I gotta start with what isn't working for me -
(Many people have already made comments on map repition, and button mashing and all that, so I will focus on the major thing I found lacking.)
Character Interaction, Character Interaction, Character Interaction...
1) (Why can't I randomly talk to party members in game? When you're out with friends and you want to shoot the breeze, do you say, "Hey, let's go to the mansion you're squatting in and chat"? No, you turn to them and talk, with the onlookers interjecting as they see fit. The absence of this aspect was the first BRUTAL disappointment I felt. Literally, it made me miserable.)
2) (The romance options were immersive in the first DA. When you were putting the moves on Alistair, you knew it in every interaction and in-play banter that he was in love with you. You could smooch and jump him whenever you saw fit. The loss of that was yet another spike driven between player and the DA world. Even when Anders MOVES IN WITH YOU you can't talk to him unless it is quest related? Though seriously, why would you want to talk to him, since he only ever talks about his agenda. Even so, when you're in a romance/friendship, you talk to the person more than six times in ten years. I'm just sayin.)
3) (And let's be real, where are my cutaway sex scenes for a female Hawke? Where are my random make outs or fights? Why did I not see Fenris' full body tattoo at any time, but a male Hawke DID see Merrill in her underwear for three minutes? As a girl, I feel I got shafted, and not in a good way.
)
4) There were story/character inconsistancies as well
(in play banter about Fenris and Hawke not being together when they were officially back together - Sebastian being for mercy throughout the WHOLE game until it came to "The Last Straw", etc.- This one is a bit nitpicky, but again, they cause a rift between gamer and game which Dragon Age (and Bioware) has been known for completely tearing down.)
5) A common party screen? In DA:O I could go to camp and change out everyone's weapons/trinkets. Now, I can only do that if they are in my party at present. This is a HUGE inconvenience when you're trying to equip everyone with their best items and you can't compare unless you are near a GATHER YOUR PARTY location and change it out six times.
6) Gifts? What the hell? They were such an added plus to the first game, trying to figure out who will like what by the conversations you've had to that point. Yet again, a character layer that was lost.
My first playthrough, I chose to Romance Anders. (I play these games FOR the story, and when there is a romance angle to the story, I am involved. When there isn't, I'm not. I'm clearing that up right now. And I speak for 99% of all the girls that play your games.) By the end, I was SO disappointed with the game due to reasons others have mentioned, but mainly because it was as though my choices in character relationships made NO difference on Anders' actions/comments/words/intentions. I still wanted to play it through again whilst romancing Fenris out of curiosity because he seemed a more interesting character and Anders was SO unsatisfying. That second play through, Fenris literally saved the game for me. He actually seemed to react to my choices, unlike Anders. Hearing "I'm yours" when clicking on Fenris was the defining moment for the romance comparison. Anders would have said, "Hey, you remember that quest you need to complete for me?" Had there been more opportunities for mingling with the companions, I may have felt more immersed with Anders, but there wasn't. At all. And when there was, even if a character was 100% in love with Hawke, it didn't affect a conversation. Tore me right out of the game. Fenris literally saved it.
I've heard comments that these characters weren't as deep as DA:O characters, but the truth is, I think these characters were brilliant, but the casual player doesn't get to find that out because interaction is SO limited. Carver was my preferred sibling, Isabella was AWESOME, Fenris was perfect, and VARRIC! Don't even get me started on Varric. Yet, we weren't allowed to just 'get to know them' because interaction was only allowed when coupled with an agenda.
Character interaction is HALF of the game, maybe more. The stabbing and maiming is a blast and all, but the story and the companion dynamic IS where you gained classIC status. This was NOT the area where there should have been "shaving off."
There's a saying "You can't please ALL the people ALL of the time, but you can please SOME of the people ALL the time."
We are those SOME. We expected more of what made the first so great. I think in "Shaving off" some of the old, you shaved off the stuff that made the first game SO AMAZING in order to make it more accessible. More accessible shouldn't be LESS immersive, and more accessible shouldn't alienate the diehards.
I understand that Bioware was hoping to branch out to the less hardcore RPG lover's, but the first game was a blockbuster, you had a bestseller on your hands no matter what. There are enough button masher games out there to fill the great divide. Dragon Age stood apart from all of them. It isn't NEW DA gamers who were lining up to buy this or preordering it, it was the people who worshiped the first. We loved the first because it was fully immersive, the characters were a constant, and it was like literally writing your own fantastic novel as you cleaved your way through Thedas. Now, if button mashers want to play DA2, they can and just skip through the dialog with an easy click of a button. Sadly, the hardcore DA fans CAN'T just click a button and have those conversations back because they never existed to begin with. That's not fair. These were the people Bioware should have been reaching out to, not the people who may STILL never play DA in their lives.
Dragon Age 3 (And even an Awakenings style explansion) should have more character interaction and freedom, less repetitive maps, and it should be BIGGER not smaller (as DA2 is in comparison to the first game). I love you guys and I love and respect what you do, but don't lose what makes you amazing by trying to be the other guys. I don't play the other guys' games.
Who knew?To start, I want to say that I am on my third play through right now, so I am not going to say that the game is terrible, but it was disappointing. (In fact, my first play through, I was so disappointed that I almost didn't play again, but I'm so glad I did. That second play through saved the game for me. Thank the man who created Fenris and Inon Zur, because they singlehandedly made me love this game.)
I like to start positive, so I will say this first -
1) the soundtrack is brutally perfect. It is haunting, moving, and helps to create the world where I desperately love to escape to.
2) The game play and combat are pretty seamless. Some complain about button mashing, but I play as a Mage or Rogue and still pause at the beginning of each fight to go at them strategically, so it didn't really bother me. In fact, I found it as smooth as an Antivan.
3) You had some fantastic characters. Fenris is probably my favorite character that I've ever encountered in a video game, ever.
4) The return of previous DA:O party members and the events of DA:O being integratable. Fantastic.
5) The sibling consequences depending on your class choice. LOVED IT!
6) The in-play banter between a love interest Fenris, a married Aveline and Isabella was hilarious! I love the mystery of potential three way banter and want MORE. Perfect!
Now, I gotta start with what isn't working for me -
(Many people have already made comments on map repition, and button mashing and all that, so I will focus on the major thing I found lacking.)
Character Interaction, Character Interaction, Character Interaction...
1) (Why can't I randomly talk to party members in game? When you're out with friends and you want to shoot the breeze, do you say, "Hey, let's go to the mansion you're squatting in and chat"? No, you turn to them and talk, with the onlookers interjecting as they see fit. The absence of this aspect was the first BRUTAL disappointment I felt. Literally, it made me miserable.)
2) (The romance options were immersive in the first DA. When you were putting the moves on Alistair, you knew it in every interaction and in-play banter that he was in love with you. You could smooch and jump him whenever you saw fit. The loss of that was yet another spike driven between player and the DA world. Even when Anders MOVES IN WITH YOU you can't talk to him unless it is quest related? Though seriously, why would you want to talk to him, since he only ever talks about his agenda. Even so, when you're in a romance/friendship, you talk to the person more than six times in ten years. I'm just sayin.)
3) (And let's be real, where are my cutaway sex scenes for a female Hawke? Where are my random make outs or fights? Why did I not see Fenris' full body tattoo at any time, but a male Hawke DID see Merrill in her underwear for three minutes? As a girl, I feel I got shafted, and not in a good way.
)4) There were story/character inconsistancies as well
(in play banter about Fenris and Hawke not being together when they were officially back together - Sebastian being for mercy throughout the WHOLE game until it came to "The Last Straw", etc.- This one is a bit nitpicky, but again, they cause a rift between gamer and game which Dragon Age (and Bioware) has been known for completely tearing down.)
5) A common party screen? In DA:O I could go to camp and change out everyone's weapons/trinkets. Now, I can only do that if they are in my party at present. This is a HUGE inconvenience when you're trying to equip everyone with their best items and you can't compare unless you are near a GATHER YOUR PARTY location and change it out six times.
6) Gifts? What the hell? They were such an added plus to the first game, trying to figure out who will like what by the conversations you've had to that point. Yet again, a character layer that was lost.
My first playthrough, I chose to Romance Anders. (I play these games FOR the story, and when there is a romance angle to the story, I am involved. When there isn't, I'm not. I'm clearing that up right now. And I speak for 99% of all the girls that play your games.) By the end, I was SO disappointed with the game due to reasons others have mentioned, but mainly because it was as though my choices in character relationships made NO difference on Anders' actions/comments/words/intentions. I still wanted to play it through again whilst romancing Fenris out of curiosity because he seemed a more interesting character and Anders was SO unsatisfying. That second play through, Fenris literally saved the game for me. He actually seemed to react to my choices, unlike Anders. Hearing "I'm yours" when clicking on Fenris was the defining moment for the romance comparison. Anders would have said, "Hey, you remember that quest you need to complete for me?" Had there been more opportunities for mingling with the companions, I may have felt more immersed with Anders, but there wasn't. At all. And when there was, even if a character was 100% in love with Hawke, it didn't affect a conversation. Tore me right out of the game. Fenris literally saved it.
I've heard comments that these characters weren't as deep as DA:O characters, but the truth is, I think these characters were brilliant, but the casual player doesn't get to find that out because interaction is SO limited. Carver was my preferred sibling, Isabella was AWESOME, Fenris was perfect, and VARRIC! Don't even get me started on Varric. Yet, we weren't allowed to just 'get to know them' because interaction was only allowed when coupled with an agenda.
Character interaction is HALF of the game, maybe more. The stabbing and maiming is a blast and all, but the story and the companion dynamic IS where you gained classIC status. This was NOT the area where there should have been "shaving off."
There's a saying "You can't please ALL the people ALL of the time, but you can please SOME of the people ALL the time."
We are those SOME. We expected more of what made the first so great. I think in "Shaving off" some of the old, you shaved off the stuff that made the first game SO AMAZING in order to make it more accessible. More accessible shouldn't be LESS immersive, and more accessible shouldn't alienate the diehards.
I understand that Bioware was hoping to branch out to the less hardcore RPG lover's, but the first game was a blockbuster, you had a bestseller on your hands no matter what. There are enough button masher games out there to fill the great divide. Dragon Age stood apart from all of them. It isn't NEW DA gamers who were lining up to buy this or preordering it, it was the people who worshiped the first. We loved the first because it was fully immersive, the characters were a constant, and it was like literally writing your own fantastic novel as you cleaved your way through Thedas. Now, if button mashers want to play DA2, they can and just skip through the dialog with an easy click of a button. Sadly, the hardcore DA fans CAN'T just click a button and have those conversations back because they never existed to begin with. That's not fair. These were the people Bioware should have been reaching out to, not the people who may STILL never play DA in their lives.
Dragon Age 3 (And even an Awakenings style explansion) should have more character interaction and freedom, less repetitive maps, and it should be BIGGER not smaller (as DA2 is in comparison to the first game). I love you guys and I love and respect what you do, but don't lose what makes you amazing by trying to be the other guys. I don't play the other guys' games.
Modifié par Gr8pillock, 17 mars 2011 - 07:08 .
#615
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 06:49
Tom Jolly
-
- Members
- 177 messages
First off, kudows to development team; clearly alot of hard work went into the game. It is gorgeous, the combat and inventory systems are improved, and the voice acting & writing is quality.
However, It's hard to connect to Hawke's world. It lacks the the rich contextual elements that made DA: Origins so memorable. The main plot choices are mostly postural, and do no affect the overall story arc in a way that is satisfying and meaninigful. The plot feels more linear becacause of this, and because of the disconnect between the three acts. Lastly, While the geographic locations are gorgeous, they are severly limited, and resused to a fault..
It would be easy to fault the"Framed narative" for my discontents, but that's not it. The root cause of these shortcomings is the blantant economy at work in the game design of DA:2. It seems that the developer's ambition for this project was to fuse trusted Bioware quality with an accelerated production schedule; a profitable framework for gamemaking, and a launchpad for profitable DLC.
I hope someone is listening. I don't mind paying for DLC, and i don't mind paying $60 a highly anticpiated game. I'm the kind of guy that upgrades his pc hardware in anticipation of a game. However, you need to deliver the goods!
However, It's hard to connect to Hawke's world. It lacks the the rich contextual elements that made DA: Origins so memorable. The main plot choices are mostly postural, and do no affect the overall story arc in a way that is satisfying and meaninigful. The plot feels more linear becacause of this, and because of the disconnect between the three acts. Lastly, While the geographic locations are gorgeous, they are severly limited, and resused to a fault..
It would be easy to fault the"Framed narative" for my discontents, but that's not it. The root cause of these shortcomings is the blantant economy at work in the game design of DA:2. It seems that the developer's ambition for this project was to fuse trusted Bioware quality with an accelerated production schedule; a profitable framework for gamemaking, and a launchpad for profitable DLC.
I hope someone is listening. I don't mind paying for DLC, and i don't mind paying $60 a highly anticpiated game. I'm the kind of guy that upgrades his pc hardware in anticipation of a game. However, you need to deliver the goods!
Modifié par Tom Jolly, 17 mars 2011 - 08:25 .
#616
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:02
Sen4lifE
-
- Members
- 859 messages
I think I spoke too soon about the combat. The brutality and swiftness is kind of fun. I never really thought it was less tactical, and getting more into the game, it's really not.
I personally love how powerful heal is, though it takes -forever- to cool down. It's like an inverted form of DA:O healing. In DA:O, it'd heal you just a bit but could be used frequently. This time it takes a long time to cool down but gives you a big heal. Wish there would be another upgrade to decrease the CD though or something.
Dragon Age 2 really feels like it has some MMORPG inspiration to it.. just like.. beyond a normal RPG game. Can't say it disappoints me, I'm loving it thus far!
A lot of what makes you just a little weary about the game at first, after you play for a bit, you come to realize how helpful or nice it is.
That's my opinion anyhow.
I personally love how powerful heal is, though it takes -forever- to cool down. It's like an inverted form of DA:O healing. In DA:O, it'd heal you just a bit but could be used frequently. This time it takes a long time to cool down but gives you a big heal. Wish there would be another upgrade to decrease the CD though or something.
Dragon Age 2 really feels like it has some MMORPG inspiration to it.. just like.. beyond a normal RPG game. Can't say it disappoints me, I'm loving it thus far!
A lot of what makes you just a little weary about the game at first, after you play for a bit, you come to realize how helpful or nice it is.
That's my opinion anyhow.
#617
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:13
amaltheaelanor
-
- Members
- 48 messages
Because it can't be stated enough, the lack of overhead camera option is driving me crazy. I thought I could get used to it, but when I got stuck in a fight where a group of enemies had my party pushed up against a set of stairs and backed one of my characters into a corner, I officially grew to despise the lack of option. Seriously, when I literally can't even look around when a character is selected because the enemies are so close and the camera always goes wonky when it gets pressed up against a wall that I literally can't see - which was also a problem in Origins, but could be fixed by zooming out - then the battle isn't no longer about challenge - it's about fighting with the camera just to be able to see. The interace is just illogically frustrating. Also, I cannot believe how much time I spend arduously trying to line up my mouse over the fraction-of-a-millimeter wide space to select the enemy I want the character to attack. Please either increase the size for lining up the icon, or return the top-down camera, because the lack is driving me nuts.
Also, it really, really bugs me that I can't turn off the AI at all. Even unchecking all the boxes under the tactics screen and putting my party on Hold at the start of each fight doesn't change the fact that if an enemy is close enough, a character will automatically attack. I want full control of my party. That's fine that they have the option for others to use increased tactics - as it should be - but there should also still be the option of disabling the AI entirely. As is, this combined with my first complaint means I feel like I control, at best, maybe 75% of combat, and the experience is significantly less satisfying. I liked triumphing in combat when I had complete control of the situation.
I enjoyed the start and got a kick out of running around in Kirkwall doing tasks - but after 19 hours of sidequests, I was banging my head against the wall. Especially because the only hints of actual plot were the amulet with Flemeth - which took half an hour - and the Deep Roads, which took me 19 hours to get to. There must be a better balance, because the excess of side quests feels more like Elder Scrolls to me, and it's one of the reasons why I don't particularly enjoy those games. Heck, I even found myself missing The Deep Roads That Never End from Origins, because I greatly enjoy those big long campaigns that take days to complete and have a serious impact on the story. Granted, I only just got to the Deep Roads now, but the excess of sidequests is just overkill, and I've lost track of all the little sub-plots and characters because there were just too many.
I still enjoy playing it overall, but with the changes in combat options, I find it a less satisfying experience overall. Though I'm still hoping that opinion will change, as I anticipate many more hours to play still.
Also, it really, really bugs me that I can't turn off the AI at all. Even unchecking all the boxes under the tactics screen and putting my party on Hold at the start of each fight doesn't change the fact that if an enemy is close enough, a character will automatically attack. I want full control of my party. That's fine that they have the option for others to use increased tactics - as it should be - but there should also still be the option of disabling the AI entirely. As is, this combined with my first complaint means I feel like I control, at best, maybe 75% of combat, and the experience is significantly less satisfying. I liked triumphing in combat when I had complete control of the situation.
I enjoyed the start and got a kick out of running around in Kirkwall doing tasks - but after 19 hours of sidequests, I was banging my head against the wall. Especially because the only hints of actual plot were the amulet with Flemeth - which took half an hour - and the Deep Roads, which took me 19 hours to get to. There must be a better balance, because the excess of side quests feels more like Elder Scrolls to me, and it's one of the reasons why I don't particularly enjoy those games. Heck, I even found myself missing The Deep Roads That Never End from Origins, because I greatly enjoy those big long campaigns that take days to complete and have a serious impact on the story. Granted, I only just got to the Deep Roads now, but the excess of sidequests is just overkill, and I've lost track of all the little sub-plots and characters because there were just too many.
I still enjoy playing it overall, but with the changes in combat options, I find it a less satisfying experience overall. Though I'm still hoping that opinion will change, as I anticipate many more hours to play still.
#618
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:13
Vilegrim
-
- Members
- 2 403 messages
Ok I'll bite; It didn't feel like an RPG, my choices appeared to be meaningless, the events of the game where scripted out and nothing I said or did changed them. I couldn't tell petrice to get lost for a start, or kill her, or talk her out of it. I HAD to take the quest I HAD to escort the qunari mage.. why? There where masses of other reasons for the Arishok to kick off, why did I have to help that cow? In fact why wasn't 'kill her' a response at the end. If I had to do the quest, let me show how I treat people who try to get me killed.
Mobs teleporting in..that was immersion breaking and makes tactics really hard, can't bottle neck them, can't find a defensive position, they appear around you. Some mobs that was fine, demons it even made sense, but Qunari? Bandits? No.
the gorn... why where all the deaths so spectacularly bloody.. I stab a man and he explodes? Wth?
Siding with the mages or templars.. didn't make a difference, not one.
I never had the oppurtunity to talk my way past a fight.
Being Champion felt like it meant nothing.. I had this huge house, and a title but what actual influence? Did I get epic tasks? Could I make empassioned speeches (ala Shep to the Citadel Concil in ME1 or to the fleet in ME2) No more fetch quests.. lots and lots of fetch quests.
Locations... recycle recycle recycle.. good in RL not so much in a game. At least have the dungeons randomise.
Companions.. Well crafted personalities but not being able to talk to them unless a quest flag was up felt stilted and weird, I couldnt get a handle on what made them tick, what kind of people they where, for a long while after deciding to trust them with my life.
Companion armor.. set armor felt off, if you are going to do it make it unchanging for everyone including Hawk, (maybe having a different costume each scene) and instead of armour drops have 'panel' drops or whatever, things that add to whoevers armour they are placed in, and can be exchanged round the party.
Mobs teleporting in..that was immersion breaking and makes tactics really hard, can't bottle neck them, can't find a defensive position, they appear around you. Some mobs that was fine, demons it even made sense, but Qunari? Bandits? No.
the gorn... why where all the deaths so spectacularly bloody.. I stab a man and he explodes? Wth?
Siding with the mages or templars.. didn't make a difference, not one.
I never had the oppurtunity to talk my way past a fight.
Being Champion felt like it meant nothing.. I had this huge house, and a title but what actual influence? Did I get epic tasks? Could I make empassioned speeches (ala Shep to the Citadel Concil in ME1 or to the fleet in ME2) No more fetch quests.. lots and lots of fetch quests.
Locations... recycle recycle recycle.. good in RL not so much in a game. At least have the dungeons randomise.
Companions.. Well crafted personalities but not being able to talk to them unless a quest flag was up felt stilted and weird, I couldnt get a handle on what made them tick, what kind of people they where, for a long while after deciding to trust them with my life.
Companion armor.. set armor felt off, if you are going to do it make it unchanging for everyone including Hawk, (maybe having a different costume each scene) and instead of armour drops have 'panel' drops or whatever, things that add to whoevers armour they are placed in, and can be exchanged round the party.
#619
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:15
Sen4lifE
-
- Members
- 859 messages
Gr8pillock wrote...
...
And I speak for 99% of all the girls that play your games.
...
I want statistics!
Gr8pillock wrote...
I understand that Bioware was hoping to branch out to the less hardcore RPG lover's, but the first game was a blockbuster, you had a bestseller on your hands no matter what. There are enough button masher games out there to fill the great divide. Dragon Age stood apart from all of them. It isn't NEW DA gamers who were lining up to buy this or preordering it, it was the people who worshiped the first. We loved the first because it was fully immersive, the characters were a constant, and it was like literally writing your own fantastic novel as you cleaved your way through Thedas. Now, if button mashers want to play DA2, they can and just skip through the dialog with an easy click of a button. Sadly, the hardcore DA fans CAN'T just click a button and have those conversations back because they never existed to begin with. That's not fair. These were the people Bioware should have been reaching out to, not the people who may STILL never play DA in their lives.
I second this paragraph to it's entirety. Couldn't have typed it better myself.
#620
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:28
ruttunenn
-
- Members
- 64 messages
DIPLOMACY
Y U NO APPEAR IN GAME
So this has been bothering me through all the game
- There is little to no diplomacy in game
- You can`t never talk your way out of a fight
- You really can`t be an intelligent smooth talker in DA2
- There is no talents skills or anything dedicated to diplomacy
- Sure you can give "different" kind of replies from the dialogue wheel
BUT they all lead to the same result in the end...
All this adds up to some major dissapointments for me and
it made alot of the immersion dissapear for I like to play and character
that likes to talk hes/hers way out of situations.
The worst part of this is it really makes me not feel like I am the main protagonist
its more like I am playing some hawk that does what he wants.
How it could have been better?
- If there would have been an option to be an witty smooth talker.
- If there would have been an option to actually be a bit more pacifist approach to some of the problems
All the other problems mentioned in this thread combined with this just kills my immersion to the game the hawke just does not feel like anything my hero would be.
Y U NO APPEAR IN GAME
So this has been bothering me through all the game
- There is little to no diplomacy in game
- You can`t never talk your way out of a fight
- You really can`t be an intelligent smooth talker in DA2
- There is no talents skills or anything dedicated to diplomacy
- Sure you can give "different" kind of replies from the dialogue wheel
BUT they all lead to the same result in the end...
All this adds up to some major dissapointments for me and
it made alot of the immersion dissapear for I like to play and character
that likes to talk hes/hers way out of situations.
The worst part of this is it really makes me not feel like I am the main protagonist
its more like I am playing some hawk that does what he wants.
How it could have been better?
- If there would have been an option to be an witty smooth talker.
- If there would have been an option to actually be a bit more pacifist approach to some of the problems
All the other problems mentioned in this thread combined with this just kills my immersion to the game the hawke just does not feel like anything my hero would be.
Modifié par ruttunenn, 17 mars 2011 - 07:32 .
#621
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:33
F1relizard
-
- Members
- 30 messages
I must say that the only things that really let me down were the repetitive locations and the items, armor, and other junk. I actually handwaved my concerns over fighting in the same location again and again by just realizing that you are in a single area for a large amount of time. The enemies were always changed up, and if they weren't I would have had a huge problem with it.
As for the inventory, the big thing that let me down was the absence of descriptions and other lore for each item. Even if it is just 'ring', I can't help but take on my DAO OCDness and look over every item. It may be only me, but sometimes I would stop in the middle of fights and in important parts of the game to simply scour over the codex for hours on end. The companion armor part didn't really faze me that much, as I really enjoyed the cool looking armor for each companion as well. I was really disliking the armor choice of Hawke as well for the first two bits, but after I got the Champion Armor set I was sated.
As for the inventory, the big thing that let me down was the absence of descriptions and other lore for each item. Even if it is just 'ring', I can't help but take on my DAO OCDness and look over every item. It may be only me, but sometimes I would stop in the middle of fights and in important parts of the game to simply scour over the codex for hours on end. The companion armor part didn't really faze me that much, as I really enjoyed the cool looking armor for each companion as well. I was really disliking the armor choice of Hawke as well for the first two bits, but after I got the Champion Armor set I was sated.
#622
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:03
Goldens
-
- Members
- 99 messages
I just want to add a couple hopefully constructive comments about the story. (This is separate from the dialogue writing, which I thought was mostly fantastic.) I'll try to keep it vague.
In the Beginning, through Act I
I found it difficult to connect with Hawke or companions until the end of Act I. Here's why:
At the start, we're plunked down on a random road, already in flight. The Hawke family is saddened by loss. Understandable, but since I-as-player don't know firsthand what they've lost, I have no personal connection to it. I merely observe their reactions passively rather than share it with them. This could have been more engaging if it started similar to the human noble and dwarf noble origins from DA:O, where you get to develop a personal connection to home before it's lost. Had this game started in Lothering, the scene prior to arriving in Kirkwall could have taken place on the ruins of Lothering, which might have been more dramatic. With this beginning, I might have arrived in Kirkwall feeling like a refugee with loss, rather than just observing one and picking her dialogue choices.
In my first playthrough I felt completely adrift during Act I. The side quests seemed unending and their relation to the greater story was vague. I could guess where things were going, but I felt as though many side quests had been added in just because there was space (after everything crucial was in) to add them. A note on motivation: we're given the goal to get maps and make money. Or... something bad will happen. What will happen? Survival is only a compelling goal if it's clear you really might not (Shepard's suicide mission). Social climbing is only compelling if we're shown how sweet it is at the top, or how sour at the bottom.
So in Act I, I felt as though I were completing game quests with neither a fond memory of home, nor a compelling goal to move forward.
Act II and III
Loved them. Fantastic. Much more engrossing than I expected from them after Act I.
End
Hawke needs to get to resolve something important, even if other cauldrons are completely boiling over. If Hawke doesn't get to resolve any problems that really matter to the story of the place and time, it's unsatisfying. It's middle-chapter syndrome.
Hope the feedback helps.
In the Beginning, through Act I
I found it difficult to connect with Hawke or companions until the end of Act I. Here's why:
At the start, we're plunked down on a random road, already in flight. The Hawke family is saddened by loss. Understandable, but since I-as-player don't know firsthand what they've lost, I have no personal connection to it. I merely observe their reactions passively rather than share it with them. This could have been more engaging if it started similar to the human noble and dwarf noble origins from DA:O, where you get to develop a personal connection to home before it's lost. Had this game started in Lothering, the scene prior to arriving in Kirkwall could have taken place on the ruins of Lothering, which might have been more dramatic. With this beginning, I might have arrived in Kirkwall feeling like a refugee with loss, rather than just observing one and picking her dialogue choices.
In my first playthrough I felt completely adrift during Act I. The side quests seemed unending and their relation to the greater story was vague. I could guess where things were going, but I felt as though many side quests had been added in just because there was space (after everything crucial was in) to add them. A note on motivation: we're given the goal to get maps and make money. Or... something bad will happen. What will happen? Survival is only a compelling goal if it's clear you really might not (Shepard's suicide mission). Social climbing is only compelling if we're shown how sweet it is at the top, or how sour at the bottom.
So in Act I, I felt as though I were completing game quests with neither a fond memory of home, nor a compelling goal to move forward.
Act II and III
Loved them. Fantastic. Much more engrossing than I expected from them after Act I.
End
Hawke needs to get to resolve something important, even if other cauldrons are completely boiling over. If Hawke doesn't get to resolve any problems that really matter to the story of the place and time, it's unsatisfying. It's middle-chapter syndrome.
Hope the feedback helps.
Modifié par Goldens, 17 mars 2011 - 08:06 .
#623
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:08
Trophy_Hunter
-
- Members
- 35 messages
First of all, whilst I admit i prefered DA:O and I agree with the improvements mentioned in the OP, I do still like most of DA2. The one thing I'd like to mention is the companion interactions, which feels unfinished.
I personally think what is missing is the camp interactions which we had in origins. The companions are interesting, Merril in particular is one of my favourites, but they all leave me wanting to know much, much more. Why can we only talk to them about twice an act when we are told to?
I think the companion interactions are far too like awakenings, which as an expansion works but not as full game, and an expansion is what DA2 seems like (In this area of the game at least).
As a side note, in Mass Effect 2 the relatively low amount of companion interaction worked overall, but in a Dragon Age game I guess I expect much more. The interaction, like it was in Mass Effect 2, has changed into a couple of conversations and a couple of unique quests. A shame that interesting characters are distanced in this way.
________________________________________________________________________________________
As an ending, I third (yes third) this paragraph.
I personally think what is missing is the camp interactions which we had in origins. The companions are interesting, Merril in particular is one of my favourites, but they all leave me wanting to know much, much more. Why can we only talk to them about twice an act when we are told to?
I think the companion interactions are far too like awakenings, which as an expansion works but not as full game, and an expansion is what DA2 seems like (In this area of the game at least).
As a side note, in Mass Effect 2 the relatively low amount of companion interaction worked overall, but in a Dragon Age game I guess I expect much more. The interaction, like it was in Mass Effect 2, has changed into a couple of conversations and a couple of unique quests. A shame that interesting characters are distanced in this way.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Sen4lifE wrote...
Gr8pillock wrote...
I understand that Bioware was hoping to branch out to the less hardcore RPG lover's, but the first game was a blockbuster, you had a bestseller on your hands no matter what. There are enough button masher games out there to fill the great divide. Dragon Age stood apart from all of them. It isn't NEW DA gamers who were lining up to buy this or preordering it, it was the people who worshiped the first. We loved the first because it was fully immersive, the characters were a constant, and it was like literally writing your own fantastic novel as you cleaved your way through Thedas. Now, if button mashers want to play DA2, they can and just skip through the dialog with an easy click of a button. Sadly, the hardcore DA fans CAN'T just click a button and have those conversations back because they never existed to begin with. That's not fair. These were the people Bioware should have been reaching out to, not the people who may STILL never play DA in their lives.
I second this paragraph to it's entirety. Couldn't have typed it better myself.
As an ending, I third (yes third) this paragraph.
Modifié par Trophy_Hunter, 17 mars 2011 - 09:25 .
#624
Guest_Brodyaha_*
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:29
Guest_Brodyaha_*
Guest_Brodyaha_*
-
- Guests
Sorry, but I disagree. DA2 was hardly a button-masher. I could not keep pressing A and expect to win a fight. I had to coordinate my teammates and abilities and decide what strengths and weakneses they would have.
Yes, I had to press A in combat a lot. But I made full use of thos tactics and had to plan. And I still played on casual because I just wanted to pass the game as fast as I could before the weekend ran out.
Yes, I had to press A in combat a lot. But I made full use of thos tactics and had to plan. And I still played on casual because I just wanted to pass the game as fast as I could before the weekend ran out.
#625
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:30
TEWR
-
- Members
- 16 989 messages
AllThatJazz wrote...
Companions
Wasn't too bothered about limited outfits, but maybe instead of just one outfit with a couple of upgrades (that still looks exactly the same after a decade) , you could find several different outfits for each companion on your travels. Would make them look a bit more interesting and give a greater sense of customisation.
this is the exact same idea I had a few pages back! nice to know there's someone out there who thought the same thing as me lol. Great minds do think alike
