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Constructive Criticism


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#701
abnocte

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aox_general wrote...

3. i loved how enemies would appear from all sides, not just the direction you're going towards, but had this been a real rpg involving tactics, finding yourself literally surrounded by enemies would make the usual tactics very...unsuccessful. It's not like you can hide your mage in the back, because soon enemies will apear right next to your mage and cut him/her down before you have time to run accross the map to save them. I'm not saying that enemies coming from different directions in waves should change, but then we should have the tactics to deal with that. In a future game that emplyes tactics, that is. Oh and I guess I'm saying that my mages here were too buff, spells are too strong. Having 2 mages in the party essentially means that nobody save for the High Dragon stands a chance against us.



Actually there's a rogue hability named "back-to-back" that allows rogues to teleport rigth next to an ally of their choosing. Quite useful to help cornered mages or to just simply get your rogue out of harm way...
I don't fancy the idea of rogues being able to teleport as if they were able to use magic though...

#702
aox_general

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double post

Modifié par aox_general, 18 mars 2011 - 02:34 .


#703
aox_general

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abnocte wrote...

aox_general wrote...

3. i loved how enemies would appear from all sides, not just the direction you're going towards, but had this been a real rpg involving tactics, finding yourself literally surrounded by enemies would make the usual tactics very...unsuccessful. It's not like you can hide your mage in the back, because soon enemies will apear right next to your mage and cut him/her down before you have time to run accross the map to save them. I'm not saying that enemies coming from different directions in waves should change, but then we should have the tactics to deal with that. In a future game that emplyes tactics, that is. Oh and I guess I'm saying that my mages here were too buff, spells are too strong. Having 2 mages in the party essentially means that nobody save for the High Dragon stands a chance against us.



Actually there's a rogue hability named "back-to-back" that allows rogues to teleport rigth next to an ally of their choosing. Quite useful to help cornered mages or to just simply get your rogue out of harm way...
I don't fancy the idea of rogues being able to teleport as if they were able to use magic though...



oh yes, that's true! I forgot about that, I'm not used to rogues being so powerful that it would make such a difference if I let them protect the mage. But, yes, thank you for pointing that out. In DA2 that's an option to protect my healer.

#704
Xaenn

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oh yes, that's true! I forgot about that, I'm not used to rogues being so powerful that it would make such a difference if I let them protect the mage. But, yes, thank you for pointing that out. In DA2 that's an option to protect my healer.


In DA:O rogues were possibly the most powerful class, I did far more damage (single target anyway) to a single target with a rogue then mage. I've beaten DA:O more times then I want to admit to, however, rogues for me have always been far superior in damage.  Once you start playing harder difficuilties however, I found mages to be far more useful CC tool (DA:O). I think I know what you mean though, being able to have a wider variety roles.

Although even in DA:O you could tank on a rogue, especially in Awakening, Stone Form was crazy lol

#705
wicked_being

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Two things I didn't like:

1) You can't talk to your companion NPCs at will.
This was a step back from that wonderful character interaction in Origins. I think DA2's characters are much more interesting than Origins' but it just feels restricted. Why must companion interaction be limited to quests? Why can't we just talk to them while they're in our party or even when we go to their home bases. Hawke wanted to talk to Merrill but she kept saying she stepped on something, Fenris seems always in a hurry because all he ever say is "Let's move on." Come on.

2.) Re-using maps, disappointing game atmosphere.

Again with the feeling of restriction and the impression of the game being rushed. Now I know Bioware only said we get to explore Kirkwall and its outlying territories and not the Free Marches a a whole, that's fine. But seeing the same maps over and over again just makes it feel like you're really in just a small place. When I look at the map of Thedas I just can't help but feel disappointed. There's so many places to visit out there, why would you just confine us to a tiny place like Kirkwall?

Even the Vimmark Mountains wasn't fully used we only got to explore a "pass"...that or maybe we did go to the Vimmark Mountains I just didn't realize it because it felt so recycled. That place where you look for Ironbark, I was expecting something like the Brecilian Forest, but no it was only a place as big as the Dalish elves' campsite. Sundermount was very linear. Once again, it pales in contrast to the BreciIian Forest as it wasn't as mysterious as I first thought it would be(I can't help but compare it to the Brecilian forest with all the elves you know). I was really looking forward to that whole elven resting place but the place is just well...rocks. And the whole "they don't sleep peacefully anymore" simply meant a few corpses and skeletons popping up.

Much as I hated the Deep Roads in Origins, in my opinion, THAT was the Deep Roads. The feeling that you were actually miles under the earth and the (for lack of better words) epic feeling as you walk the dwarven hallways approaching the Dead Trenches. Kirkwall's Deep Roads didn't have that same atmosphere.

Hightown, Lowton and the Undercity was well done in my opinion. Maybe it's because Bioware focused on places Hawke might frequent, after all why would Hawke hang out in Sundermount or the Wounded Coast? But still as people who have posted before me keep saying, exploration is very very important. I explored the whole city and looked forward to exploring the mysterious outlying locations in Kirkwall. I don't expect dragons at every bend of the road but I just felt let down seeing how bland the outlying locations looked like.

Really, to whoever's going to make maps for DA3, I urge you to look at the map of Thedas. Maybe you'd feel the same feeling I have wondering what's there in The Donarks, or the Hunterhorn Mountains or the Arlathan Forest or that city/village of Laysh. Apply that imagination in making the maps and let us Dragon Age fans explore.

Deeper character interaction and better maps for the dlc and expansion (if any) and for DA3. That's all.
I still love you though :wub:

Modifié par wicked_being, 18 mars 2011 - 03:07 .


#706
ymatis

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logangriffith wrote...

I know this post will mostly be echoing the complaints that so many others have already voiced but here is where I believe the game fell short.

- Introduction to characters. Not only do most of the companions join Hawke for the most trivial reasons, but we don't get a real chance to get to know Hawke before the action starts. I would have liked some dialog between Hawke and his family before the blight reached lothering and then have the pace of the game pick up as they try to escape for their lives. I would have liked to have seen the companions join due to some compelling reason, not just oh it is Tuesday and I have nothing better to do (exaggerated but really there reasons aren't developed very well.).

 


I just read your post and i must say i mostly disagree with what you wrote about the characters. the charcters and thier Introduction in DA2 is MUCH better than in DAO. they seem do join you for REAL reasons(most of them) and not becuase their mother told them or because they love the maker..
the characters in DA2 are much more deep and unique than in DAO.

#707
mousestalker

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The only point I'd really like to hammer home is that Bioware needs to play to their strengths. Mostly this means y'all excel at characterization. You do it very well and I like to spend time with the npc's you create. So more time with the NPC's would make the games more fun.

#708
NackterGolfer

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Having finished the game two times (Twohanded Warrior and Backstabbing Rogue) here's my two cents. I'll try to make it short, and avoiding topics that were mentioned often enough already.
  • Reuse of maps - far too extensive. It is really a weakness in DA 2.
  • Waves of enemies. Sometimes it just makes no sense, sometime it does. Use it more carefully.
  • Combat:
  • How is kiting a boss (i.e.: High Dragon) a good strategy and something a game designer desires? It was lame in DA:O and it is lame here. It doesn't feel at all heroic. I understand that movement belongs to a much more action oriented combat system, but sometimes it's just boring. Especially when you see how stupid the enemy npc's and your own companions react to that. And let's not forget that playing four people at once is different from just only one. That is where a main problem lies: Some people enjoy playing only the main protagonist, others like playing the whole party. I play to don't let anyone in my party die, but sometimes they are so stupid. How to appease both gamestyles is very tricky and I got no satisfying answer to that at the moment. However to the next points.
  • Healing isn't at all as important as in DA:O (at least on 'normal' or 'hard'), and I don't think that's the wrong way. Nothing is more sad than a mage that keeps and uses all his mana for healing spells. So yes, good.
  • Setting up tactics is great! More options to set them up is great! But as situations change (i.e. from trash mobs to high dragon), there will be need of changing tactics. But no more different saving slots for my custom tactics and no button to deactivate my tactics at all. Why not?
  • Companions and their upgradeable armor. This is basically not so bad as I first thought, but some things could have done differently. Why is it, that I don't get the quest for Varric's last armor upgrade, just because I didn't buy and play DA:A? :? Ok, not so important. Maybe it would have been better, to generally just give runeslots to companions, and increase the amount of different runes, and don't let us use them twice or something like that - this would maybe increase customisation and replay value. I wouldn't say no.
  • Runes: More different runes for armors. I missed some that give ATTACK, HEALTH, STAMINA. Why not? I ended up either re-runing after every mission for the right resistances, or to just glyph defense all the time. Maybe I'm stupid.
  • Requirements for weapons and armor are hard to reach, if you're planning to do something different. Maybe lower them for the sake of it, or all character builds do not differ much from one another, and this narrows choices again.
  • Visuals:
  • How is it, that everytime a female NPC talks to me I think: 'Bethany?' They do look all the same! Or maybe I'm stupid again, but you get my point I hope.
  • I won't complain about Darkspawn (yes I do), and their ridiculous swords that could be ripped out of NWN1 right away (yes I do).
  • While Kirkwall looks very nice, some other areas just plain suck. Imagine the DA:O Temple of Andraste in the mountain near Haven. How grand, how divine. Now imagine the Deep Roads in DA 2. Shocking. More effort needs to go in this direction. If you reuse maps, make them at least look good.
  • Set Armors exist as I understand one for each act. Never completed the first two, but if you do something like this, why even bother with loot at all? Where's the point? Either make more of them, so we do have choice, or leave it. I got the feeling 99% of the loot i get is made directly for the trashcan.
  • User Interface is a bit a turn-off for me as well:
  • The Action Bar (where my skills are waiting to be used) ok, nothing really wrong here.
  • Loot Window too small, text too large. Maybe this has something to do with the console market, not sure how this feels there.
  • Same can be applied to tactics screen, it feels confusing. This is because again, text too large results in too less information on one screen, and I need to scroll up and down all the time.
  • Codex, Quest description etc. My main gripe how it looks so unloved. Just some bright font on black background feels so cheap. Why not leave it as this scroll/book design similar to DA:O?
  • Storytelling is great in my book, although I don't see me fit to give good feedback. I'm more of a fanboy in this department. Just the beginning felt a bit forced: Get to Kirkwall quick, eat or die. Maybe this should have been expanded a little.
    Side Quests: Find item and drop it. Cheap.
Conclusion: While I enjoyed this game pretty much and spend around 86 hours playing it since release, I cannot shake off the feeling there is something missing. Sometimes these are the details and the love for it. But I feel there is a conflict between the streamlined, action-oriented aspect and the more conservative roots this game has. Why bother with inventory at all, if you cannot use more than quarter of it. Why keep your mage behind the lines, if he/she's gonna be swarmed a second later by spawning enemies. Why 'think like a general' and control enemies, if I can run around in circles until my cooldowns are ready again.
Guess that's obvious. Well I don't want to embarass myself any further: This is all my personal opinion on this game. Thanks for reading. etc. :whistle:

edited several times for formatting.

Modifié par NackterGolfer, 18 mars 2011 - 03:50 .


#709
tivadar27

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I'd like to agree/emphasize what Dave of Canada pointed out. I was hoping to make a rogue with Cunning/Constitution, and just a little bit of Dexterity. I wanted to try making a tank. Basically, I can't because I still want to be able to wield equipment. I understand the need to have requirements in place, but it'd be nice to have them not be so high!

I also independently came to the conclusion that it would be nice to have companions able to wear armor even if it doesn't change their actual appearances. I just feel we lost a lot of the customization/tweaking that was in Origins due to these two basic oversights.

However, on the skill tree idea, kudos to you guys. It was implemented amazingly well! And hard is actually hard now in terms of difficulty, Tivadar approves +7.

Hate to end on a negative note, but bugs, seriously? I understand missing some things, like maker's sigh errors, and the isabela/sebastian boost slowing attack speed. But how do you miss/release without fixing bugs where if I wear and remove a shield, my defense continually goes up. Or even bigger, how Armistice and Goad just plain don't work on Consoles. Did you never actually use these skills in a beta test?

#710
bschaaf

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just a list - some of this is already included

inventory - if the game is smart enough to tell what's junk, why can't it tell what class i am and move equippable items i can't use to junk also (this is especially true for armor.)

i would like some sort of way to manage the whole party from "home" sort of like ME. that way i can change weapons, rings and whatever without selecting each party member separately. No need to add each character to the party to change them, just a screen. There's less customization available, but it's still a pain to do indivudually.

i had difficulty using the tactic screen. i would like an option in every tactics set for the character to automatically use a health potion if their health goes below a certain level. self preservation for NPCs should also be automatic. (come to think of it this might be better - Party NPCs will automatically use a health potion when their health goes below a certain level (10%) and do not need a tactics slot.)

during character creation, it would be nice to have a short cut scene for the PCs face as it will appear in the other cut scenes - look in a mirror or talk to the guy at the black emporium. The character creation screen works fine, but there are subtle changes that can't be seen until a cut scene is played. i had this problem in ME and DAII and resulted in many restarts and trips to the black emporium - still not completely happy.

not quite sure how to put this - ability scores need a hard cap, at least at the level up screen. There's a general statement that cunning helps lock picking and that goes up every 10 points. if there was a hard cap or indicator (40 for master locks) then players could put any additional points into another stat. at least something to indicate that you might not want to put any more points into a certain slot - most players can always use more health or stamina/mana.

i lost some conversations between characters when i was surprised by enemies - they would keep talking while the fight was going on and the music was playing.

the other things are annoying, but with the simplifying i may actually play the game again. but the one thing that bothers me most of all is that i can't find a good reason to side with the templars. if you play as non mage Hawke, it's not like Bethanny is a blood mage and you have a good reason to turn on your sister. if you play as Mage Hawke, i imagine you'd be hard pressed to find a reason to voluntarily choose prison over freedom, especially as an adult.

#711
RenownedRyan

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I'd love to see a paragon/renegade system like in Mass Effect so that decisions carried some weight. For whatever reason Dragon Age has never embraced this. I'd also love interrupts.

#712
SorrowAndJoy7

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The biggest thing I have a problem with is probably(besides reused maps) companion armor, not necessarily upset because we can't change their armor, but there is no reason why there can't be an increased level of customization within this system... Such as, every level or every other level giving us the choice of A. +2 Dex +5% Attack Speed B. +2 Cunning +2 Dex, etc... obviously I don't know if that is a good A/B, i'm not a developer, but the actual developers can come up with similar type upgrades where we get to manually upgrade our companions armor in a way that gives us a higher level of control.

With this added in, we no longer feel like our companion's armor is simply out of our hands and you can always add an Auto-pick option or whatever for those who don't want to deal with deciding the path of armor upgrades. I like most people who have been into rpg's for a long time prefer to choose every piece of equipment, but a good middle ground between not having to design every piece of equipment to fit every companion for someone like me, is an armor customization system.

Besides that I enjoyed Dragon Age 2 quite a bit. It's features like this which maybe don't have to be as huge a time investment which can still please us customization wh***s.

#713
Katsaurs

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Just finished the game yesterday and I managed to spend around 35-40ish hours to get it finished, around the same time it took me to finished Mass Effect 2 when doing the majority/all the side quests that were on offer. Needless to say I had mixed feelings while playing and seeing how it ended; in my opinion it felt like an average – good experience. Yes I enjoyed some of it but there are quite a few things that left me scratching my head or wallowing in frustration.

Warning, it’s pretty lengthy!

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Companions, Dialogue & Interactions

-    Party banter. I just can’t get enough of it – I felt that DA2 had more (or it seemed it anyway) of it as you roamed around Kirkwall. I’d have to say that this was probably the most enjoyable part of the game for me to hear my companions strike up random conversations with each other (and having Aveline, Isabela & Merrill together was a riot). Good job on that, can’t fault it! :lol:

-    Inter party interactions during some cut scenes before Hawke comes to talk to them was awesome. I wish there were a lot more of them littered about the place without Hawke’s involvement (e.g when Isabela and Merrill are in the tavern playing cards, and Merrill leaves when Hawke arrives. Why not have Hawke simply a spectator to see how things played out? Or have Merrill stay and have a 3 way conversation?) An idea would be have Hawke be the spectator of companion cut scene interactions and watch how they form their own bonds between one and other, or rivalries depending on their outlook.

-    Hawke’s interaction with them felt off and shallow. Honestly, when I saw how limited the dialogue options were and how little was exchanged between Hawke and them it left a bitter taste in my mouth. It’s too much like Mass Effect 2’s weak interaction! What happened to the many conversations you could have with Morrigan or Alistair while at party camp, or taking a moment to talk to them out in the field? They always had stock things to say but when they actually had something new to add, it was far more enriching and deeper than what DA2 has now.

-    The romances were but a shadow of Origins. They were much, much weaker this time round- it felt like there was maybe 2 flirt options before they visited your house for sexy time? No good, there wasn’t enough build up. Leliana’s romance was excellent imo, you got to learn about her background, the people she met in her past and her thoughts about you and anything else on her mind. These LI’s? Not so much. Example, Merrill speaks of Tamlen from Origins but she never really explains who he is, what he was to her, how she knows him etc unless you played the Dalish origin (I don’t recall him during my Dwarf origin story at all).

-    The gift system in Origins was a good idea but badly executed. I know DA2 has a gift system but half the time I wasn’t even aware it was there sine everything went in my junk tab…and I emptied that often, so I always missed out on the little scenes that played out. Perhaps a Misc. or Gifts tab in your inventory would be a good idea, and any gifts you find or get would drop in there so you don’t accidentally sell them. More gifts added to the game would be nice, I loved how this time round the gifts triggered a meaningful cut scene- more of this meaningful gift giving feels like it would be a good idea. Why not mix it up a little? Like, maybe you find something that you think Fenris would enjoy, only to find that the item brings back bad memories for him and it adds rivalry points? That way you’d have to really think/be careful what you hand over to people in case they get the wrong idea.

-    I miss having a base camp where all the companions would reside. I understand why they would all live in their own homes in DA2 but to visit them and find they only have one or two lines to say to you, or just loop one saying over and over wasn’t great. I didn’t fully connect with these people as I did in Origins and that’s a shame.


Maps, Environment & Junk Items

-    Kirkwall as a whole, along with weapons and some armour are well designed and are pleasant to look at. But in saying that it was far too empty to be the bustling city it was supposed to be portrayed to be. When I think bustling city, I think more along the lines of Assassin’s Creed with all the npc’s roaming around and going about their business; not the very few random people wandering about.

-    I saw no point to the vast amounts of useless junk we gathered other than to be vendor trash and inventory spam. If there was absolutely no use to it, why on earth would you spend time creating said items just to add filler? Not good at all. The has to be some other way to earn money in game that doesn’t resort ot collecting so much trash to sell to vendors.

-    Repeatable environments really started to wear thin after the third time experiencing them. I absolutely hated having to do quests that made me go into cave/sewer/warehouse/house no.45467 that looked exactly like the other cave/sewer/warehouse/house except with a door blocked off and a few random crates. It started to become and feel like this was just useless padding to the game’s story.

-    The same goes with simply having Kirkwall and the mountain outside of town being the only explorable areas. Everything felt tightly compacted and limited that I started to really get bored, and that’s a first for me when it comes to a Bioware game. Usually when I get a game from you guys I spend hours upon hours trying to go through it, it’s like a good book- you just can’t put it down till you finish it. Unfortunately this went the way of Mass Effect 2- I had to force myself to finish it and I honestly wasn’t gripped by it enough to slog long hours into a single sitting play through.

-    The above sort of ties in with the maps too. Ok so I’ve been to this area before in the past…why do I have to re-explore it to uncover the map again? That makes zero sense to me, because I know nothing’s changed geographical wise; it just means I probably can’t go into that random cave like last time (thank god) or maybe a path way is blocked off for whatever reason. Still that doesn’t excuse the fact that I had to re-uncover the map yet again despite this.


Combat, Crafting & Gameplay

-    Mage spells were awesome to watch and perform. Seeing Merrill & Bethany rain down holy fury with their elemental spells and causing destruction was oddly satisfying.

-    It was fluid enough but it felt a smidgen too fast for my liking- Origins was a bit slow in terms of being a 2H but at least it felt like my weapons had significant weight to them for each swing given. Hawke in comparison just zoomed about the place while flailing a similar weapon like it was as light as a dagger or short sword- my mind is boggled. Maybe there’s a way to get that sweet spot where it’s not as fast as DA2 but now as slow as Origins; something that works!

-    The waves of enemies…why…WHY?! I can understand from the standpoint that in a real battle, reinforcements would come to aid their fellows when in trouble…but to have them appear out of nowhere/thin air and behind your well placed rangers/mages was silly. I’d have understood if your map indicated another wave actually running at you from a distance, or showing enemy movement rather than them just appearing- give the player the chance to re-jig their tactical placing to head them off/counter attack them.

-    What happened to auto attack? I play the PC version and more often than not Hawke seems a bit sporadic as to when she auto attacks and when she doesn’t. When I was against the High Dragon she would get knocked over and mauled on repeatedly, and still she would get up and auto attack her target. Yet in other menial battles around Kirkwall against random thugs, she would maybe knock one down and instead of running at the target she’d knocked down and continue to pummel…she just stood there doing nothing; waiting on me to tell her to continue to attack said target she hadn’t managed to kill.

-    Skill trees felt too overly simplified. It was a nice idea with the branching off into different skill sets and allows a lot of freedom, but even then the amount of combative skills you could actually use in battle felt limited.

-    Crafting I can’t really comment too much on, as I didn’t really touch the mechanic too much. However it does seem a little odd that resources are unlimited once you find them.


Customisation & Art style

-    The animations & new art style was spot on, even though there were a few dodgy looking areas from time to time. My only gripe is that sometimes the animations bugged out so npcs and sometimes Hawke herself kinda had her limbs glitch into her body at impossible angles. The new design of the races is perfect, you can clearly differentiate between elves and humans now- I wasn’t too much of a fan of Origins’ ‘they’re just human looking but with point ears’. Though in saying that, sometimes the elves looked a little…odd; as in, their bodies often looked a bit too small and bony looking in comparison to their head size. Other than that, I fully support keeping the new change.

-    I enjoyed the Hawke customisation at the start of the game; there were plentiful options to choose from when creating her in regards to Origins so I have no complaints there.

-    Companion customisation I hated. While I understand that it’s upto the companion what they wear it takes away a large chunk of setting up your team just how you like them. It wasn’t enough for me to only change their weapon and accessories- I wanted complete control of how my team was kitted out, not just a half hearted attempt. There was all this cool loot dropping from enemies and yet ¾ of the time I couldn’t use it because my Hawke wasn’t a mage or rogue…so all the hard work you may have put into modelling and making all this gear was for nothing because my warrior Hawke couldn’t wear it- the only way I’d see it is if I did another play through and maybe it would drop again. This would’ve been avoided if you’d allowed our companions to wear all this dropped gear, or make it so that the only stuff that drops from enemies actually fits your Hawke’s job role.


The Story & Side quests

-    The side quests were a step up from Origins and more often than not they were somewhat enjoyable to do, but I felt like there were so many that bared very little to the plot that it came across as filler to pass the time. If the quests tied in a bit more with the plot then perhaps it’d be a lot better than what they currently were. Also the items we find at random out in the field…how does Hawke know who to return it to if she had no knowledge that a particular person had lost something to begin with? It made my brain hurt trying to see the logic behind that.

-    The companion quests were entertaining (I especially love Aveline’s, it made me laugh quite a bit with the way she was handling things!) It’s a shame there wasn’t more of them to make you feel all the more attached and thoughtful of their wellbeing.

-    The overall plot felt…disjointed. I understand why time skips had to happen in order to push the story along, but if we’re to believe that during those said years that are simply narrated that Hawke connects more with her companions, or meets new people and rises up in the world it doesn’t work too well. I’d rather have my Hawke experience it at my hands rather than being told “She met so and so, this happened and she was soon thrust into the fray of politics along with it” How did she get thrust into it? Why was she involved? All these things I want to know and yet the key points are glossed over. Perhaps that’s why companion romances felt so out of touch? I would believe it more if the bonds were formed over the years but because we don’t have a say in how things go, it weakens the immersion factor.

SPOILER START
-    I didn’t like how the game ended, nor did I like being forced to make such decisions only to have something utterly stupid happen regardless of the choice. For example, Orsino persists and persists for the freedom of mages and how they’re treated shouldn’t be because of how an extreme few blood mages are portraying them. Yet when the final battle happens, he ‘loses his cool’ and turns to THE VERY THING HE WAS AGAINST and turns into an abomination because of it, causing you to fight off both the Templars and the Orsino in the process. What the hell just happened Bioware…?! It makes no freakin’ sense after everything he argued against at all, and I feel like the ball was dropped for sake of causing needless drama.
SPOILER END

Modifié par Katsaurs, 18 mars 2011 - 04:51 .


#714
hekalite

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Very shot criticism...

I hate boss battles.  I know other people might disagree, so just consider this as one vote against that particular kludge for making things difficult.  Now, if you really really really feel boss battles are a must, then I would respectfully suggest that making a fight long is not the same thing as making a fight difficult.  And honestly, I don't mind a fight taking a long(ish) time if your strategy is all wrong, but there comes a point where it is just tedious.

#715
EddySpeddy

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May as well chuck my opinion in. 

I like the more animated combat actions it's great, gore is overdone in some cases though, and the jump distance is a bit far... you are wearing armour you know.

The voice acting is great, and I am glad my character is voice acted now. Although I dislike the common elves accent, Merril was good though. Oh also loved Fenris, but he didn't have an accent, awesome deep voiced psycho killer, I hope he is put in Dragon Age 3 if it gets made xD

Graphics are amazing, although I can't play it on Very High :/ runs on high easily, must be a fairly big difference there xD

Really hated what you did with dungeons/mansions. Not kidding all of them were the same building with certain areas removed, and you start at different entrances... although it is understandable considering the game was made in two years.

Brilliant story, but one of the best things about DA:O was that you could travel to different cities and stuff. Felt more open and less linear.

The new Art Design is both good and bad. The elves are okay, doesn't bother me, Qunari are amazing and I'm not very happy that I can't have an awesome Qunari in my party :/ The Common Darkspawn look rediculous though...

The game seems to want me to be evil. A lot of the things I do are all solved by being a dick, I assumed that if you went more humour you'd get witty ways of avoiding conflict or tricking people, and the good having calm ways of talking people down and stuff, but from what I've seen so far, I just threaten people and I win. Basically I think you get more options as an evil Hawke, which defeats the purpose of using other dialogue.

A major bone to pick with this. I really hate not being able to change my companions clothes/armour grrrr. I mean at the very least give us a few different styled armours for companions. Everybody has different tastes.

Quite a few other things I'd mention, but that would spoil some stuff, so I'll leave it at that.

#716
Nerevar-as

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hekalite wrote...

Very shot criticism...

I hate boss battles.  I know other people might disagree, so just consider this as one vote against that particular kludge for making things difficult.  Now, if you really really really feel boss battles are a must, then I would respectfully suggest that making a fight long is not the same thing as making a fight difficult.  And honestly, I don't mind a fight taking a long(ish) time if your strategy is all wrong, but there comes a point where it is just tedious.


I hated the Rock Wraith. I learned its fighting pattern soon, and still had to take around 20 minutes with it. My reaction at winning the fight was "about time", not satisfaction. Worst thing since planet scanning.

#717
ashwind

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After watching a couple of LP and reading some reviews, I feel that one of the biggest problem with DA2 is how the story is presented; not the quality of the story but the presentation/telling of the story. The presentation made DA2 look bad (very bad) in some cases when it had all the potential to make it great.

Lets take the scene from the demo as an example: Prologue Fleeing the Darkspawn

Picture this, groups of refugee fleeing, Hawke and family among them, darkspawns in pursue, killing slackers and Hawke struggling to defend his family while those who were travelling with him are being slaughtered. That would give players a sense of how dreadful the situation was.

After a hard fight and fleeing, Hawke meets and save/assist Averline and her wounded husband. Night falls, they break camp - Wesley is now very ill from the taint - give Averline and Wesley some touching moments - darkspawn swoop down and attack the camp, rest of surviving refugee died, Hawke surrounded - Flemeth came and .....
.

Currently, the prologue is like the last hour of Hawke's journey before he met Flemeth. It just does not feel tragic and there is no sense of urgency and despair and players do not feel for Hawke. Basically the same story but when presented in greater depth will make a world of difference.

I hope in the expansion and DLCs to come, Bioware will put more detail and effort in creating the cut scenes and story telling.

Modifié par ashwind, 18 mars 2011 - 06:05 .


#718
EddySpeddy

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ashwind wrote...

After watching a couple of LP and reading some reviews, I feel that one of the biggest problem with DA2 is how the story is presented; not the quality of the story but the presentation/telling of the story. The presentation made DA2 look bad (very bad) in some cases when it had all the potential to make it great.

Lets take the scene from the demo as an example: Prologue Fleeing the Darkspawn

Picture this, groups of refugee fleeing, Hawke and family among them, darkspawns in pursue, killing slackers and Hawke struggling to defend his family while those who were travelling with him are being slaughtered. That would give players a sense of how dreadful the situation was.

After a hard fight and fleeing, Hawke meets and save/assist Averline and her wounded husband. Night falls, they break camp - Wesley is now very ill from the taint - give Averline and Wesley some touching moments - darkspawn swoop down and attack the camp, rest of surviving refugee died, Hawke surrounded - Flemeth came and .....
.

Currently, the prologue is like the last hour of Hawke's journey before he met Flemeth. It just does not feel tragic and there is no sense of urgency and despair and players do not feel for Hawke. Basically the same story but when presented in greater depth will make a world of difference.

I hope in the expansion and DLCs to come, Bioware will put more detail and effort in creating the cut scenes and story telling.


You sir are a legend xD That was really well thought out : ]

Modifié par EddySpeddy, 18 mars 2011 - 06:14 .


#719
Caja

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ymatis wrote...

logangriffith wrote...

I know this post will mostly be echoing the complaints that so many others have already voiced but here is where I believe the game fell short.

- Introduction to characters. Not only do most of the companions join Hawke for the most trivial reasons, but we don't get a real chance to get to know Hawke before the action starts. I would have liked some dialog between Hawke and his family before the blight reached lothering and then have the pace of the game pick up as they try to escape for their lives. I would have liked to have seen the companions join due to some compelling reason, not just oh it is Tuesday and I have nothing better to do (exaggerated but really there reasons aren't developed very well.).

 


I just read your post and i must say i mostly disagree with what you wrote about the characters. the charcters and thier Introduction in DA2 is MUCH better than in DAO. they seem do join you for REAL reasons(most of them) and not becuase their mother told them or because they love the maker..
the characters in DA2 are much more deep and unique than in DAO.


Slight spoilers below!

1
2
3

This is interesting, because I partly agree with logangriffith. The NPCs motivation to join the Grey Warden in Origins worked better for some characters and not as good for other characters, IMHO. But at least there was a constistent motivation. Especially Alistair or Morrigan had very good reasons to travel with the main character even if Morrigans weren't fully revealed at first. So, as I'm writing this I'm trying to remember why the companions in DA 2 joined Hawke and their motives are already fading away, while I still remember the motives of the NPCs in Origins vividly. 

Let's see:
Varric is in on the expedtion,so he actually has a good reason to team up with Hawke. 
Aveline is another fugitive, so she an Hawke have got something in common.
Anders? What on earth did Anders want from Hawke? Doesn't matter so much, I guess. He is cute ;).
Merrill joins Hawke because Hawke is doing someone a favour.
Isabella, Fenris and Sebastian all want something from Hawke, so she is doing them a favours as well. So, Fenris and Sebastian think they are in 'my' dept.

I'm in act 3 now and during the time I've played the game and the time that passed in game I kept asking myself the question: Why do my companions still travel with me?  

Fenris and Sebastian still think they are in my dept. Even after several years. 
Merrill? Doesn't she have anything else to do?
Anders is my romance in this playthrough so I get it why he is still at my side.
Varric and Aveline should be busy with their own lives, Aveline probably even more than Varric.
So, while I'm still wondering about this, new quests apear and my companions ask me for help once more, at least some of them (I haven't finished the game yet). And again, I'm doing them favours. But apart from that I fail to see a connection. There is no common goal. Most of them aren't even my friends - actually Aveline, Anders and Varric are the only ones who have reached 'full friendship' status. Other characters such as Merrill and Fenris are more or less neutral. And I keep asking myself: Why are they doing this?

Don't get me wrong. I like the characters, so it's even more painfull that I didn't get a chance to get to know them properly due to the limited interaction there was. But when it comes down to characterization and motives there is definitely room for improvement.

Modifié par Caja, 18 mars 2011 - 06:26 .


#720
cinderburster

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Let's see... First, the good. I don't really care about the re-used maps. Yes, they're a little repetitive after a while, but we're not exactly going on an epic journey to far-off lands, now are we? We're staying in a small area around Kirkwall. I would rather Bioware spend it's money and time in other places than on unique area maps for quests that may not last more than ten minutes. I love the characters, the writing, and, as always, the animations. I like the new battle system--definitely not as clunky as the system in DA:O/A. The new crafting system suits me just fine. I hardly used crafting in the first game and expansion, and I used it twice in my first playthrough of this one. With the exception of runes, I found that I could find everything I needed just doing quests.

All of that said, there are a few things I think could've been done a little better. All of the companions' final quests in Act 3 were pretty epic. My only complaint was Fenris', which I felt was over with too quickly. I realize that it's far too late to change anything, but I wish there had been more drama to it.

My only MAJOR problem was at the end of act three.  I had a quest to turn in in The Gallows and was catapulted into the final battle without so much as a how-d'you-do. Perhaps a patch to fix that, somehow?

Loving the game otherwise. I'm about to start my second playthrough.

Modifié par cinderburster, 18 mars 2011 - 06:30 .


#721
elessarz

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 Some of these points have probably already been made, however I find it is always useful to reiterate.

The Wave System. This has been a game breaker for me. I played around 80% of the game on hard difficulty. By the time I reached the High Dragon I was fed up with it. I switched to normal and then I switched to casual. As a result the fights became boring rather than grueling. At least they ended more quickly. Other than being ridiculous, immersion-breaking and in some cases just plain impractical, enemies appearing in waves simply made the game much less enjoyable. At one point I vividly recall feeling offended at the fact that the game's sole notion of difficulty was throwing dozens of enemies at you. Soon after beating the game I started a second playthrough. I was in the prologue section, shortly after meeting Aveline. Waves of darkspawn appeared. I quit the game.

Bosses. I don't mind the bosses themselves, they are merely representative of society's tendency to enforce "rites of passage" on everyone. What I do mind is spending half an hour chipping away at a boss' health whilte I carefuly manage my party. In some cases I ended up doing the Benny Hill routine. I imagine Casandra going: "Varic, you are being awfully evasive about that rock wraith fight. Just what did the Champion do?" To which Varic replies: "The Champion deemed a tactical retreat necessary. So he retreated for about an hour around the cave while Anders and I took potshots at the rock wraith from behind a boulder." In my experience, boss fights in DA2 have been grueling, boring and unsatisfactory. Did I ever congratulate myself after winning a difficult encounter? Not really. I sighed and was glad it was over and hoped it never happened again.

The passage of time. Now I don't know about you but I keep more than one outfit in my wardrobe. I also change them regularly. In some periods I favor a particular arrangement of clothing,  but I generally never stick to the same outfit. I find it very unlikely then that the characters in DA2 dress up in the same manner over the course of ten years. There are some changes, and of course allowances must be made for the characters who wear armor, such as Aveline and Fenris. After all, armor is armor. For all I know they wear spandex in the privacy of their homes. There ought to be variation however. Isabela can't be wearing the same dark undergarment, the same scanty dress, for all that time. And what about aging? People change significantly in appearance over ten years. Wrinkles, creases, scars. Hair recedes, it changes color. People - warriors like Hawke & Co. - become battered, weathered by the blows they receive and the years which pile on top of them. My lady Hawke was at the end as beautiful as she was at the beginning. Varic strode bear chested into a mob of angry templars, seemingly immortal. There is a wonderful piece of artwork which serves as the background of this very message board. We see an old Hawke, grizzled and furious. That is what I expected to see. That is what I should have seen.

Story presentation. I was seldom convinced by the storytelling. However, given the spoiler free nature of this topic, I am not at liberty to say why and how exactly. What I can say is that the storytelling was not consistently good. There are times in which dramatic tension builds nicely. At these points the story is like a cord, stretched taut, just between breaking and slackening. At other times it wheezes like an old trumpet and falls flat on its face. Nothing is worse than a story which takes itself very seriously indeed, but comes short of what it imagines itself to be.

Cross class combos. Satisfying and efficient. However they force you to spec into certain talent trees. This must be avoided.

I would like to praise the party banter. It gave the game heart. Hearing Aveline ask Carver about his future and scold Fenris for squatting the way he did... these are human concerns which we can all identify with. At one point Aveline told me she resented my selling her dead husband's shield. Of course she did. It was her dead husband's shield. Was it necessary? It was not. It was trash to me. And because I treated it like trash, I got told off. Human concerns. So it goes.

#722
zambixi

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Edit: formatting & more constructive

Reiterating some points and hopefully bringing up a few new ones.

The World
 •    I thought being in Kirkwall made the overall game world a little smaller.  Not because I necessarily need to see places outside of Kirkwall, but because Kirkwall itself was not explored.  I had seen all of Kirkwall by Act I (except for one area, I guess), and other than one or two forces leaving or arriving, nothing in the city ever evolved.  While this did not ‘break my immersion’ so to speak, I did not feel as enthralled in the world as I could have been.  I lost the feeling of being in Hawke’s own unique world fairly quickly.

•    I enjoyed the random NPC one-liners as you walked past them or clicked on them.  I enjoyed occasionally overhearing conversations from non-companion NPCs, and those in the Hanged Man are particularly well done.  This makes Kirkwall seem much more real, and the random people standing around become less decorative and more involved. 

•    The companion’s home bases never change or evolve either.  Fenris has dead bodies in his house for all three acts, and Merrill never acquires new belongings.  Your companions are rarely if ever found in different areas within their homes, and this made the whole mechanic seem a bit ‘stiff’.  I like the concept of them having their own place (I can’t imagine more people in Gamlen’s Lowtown hovel), but I would like to see these places slowly become reflections of the characters through the different acts.  It just seemed unrealistic that they would never make any improvements or changes within seven years.

•    Re-used maps.  Every mansion in high-town is the same.  Every single one has the ‘Orzammar Furniture’ that Varric talks about in his quest?  The secret road underneath Darktown is the same as the cave in the Bone Pit?  I don’t mind a few maps that are re-done, but seeing the same place for the tenth or eleventh time is just boring.  The game already feels a bit small because it is based in and around Kirkwall.  Re-using maps so many times only exacerbates this problem.

Enemies & Combat
•    As a 360 user, I love the new combat.  Much better pace, much better look, just good all around.  The faster pace and lack of auto attack (though admittedly I want the latter back) forced me to pay attention, and got me much more involved in the combat.  I actually used tactics and strategy, something which I did not need in DA:O.

•    Enemies sometimes randomly appear.  Literally.  I would slaughter everyone around and think I was done just to have another cluster pop up out of empty space and continue.  I do not mind ‘waves’ of enemies, but when they magically appear it makes no sense and is truly ‘immersion breaking’.

•    It’s not all darkspawn, all the time.  I like that there are different enemies depending on what area you’re in.  Though, there are A LOT of bandits/raiders/slavers in Kirkwall.  Sometimes I just wanted to be able to go from point A to point B without a battle in between.  It became a bit repetitive when every time I went into Darktown or Lowtown I was forced to battle some raiders, and it seemed unrealistic that I would not have developed a reputation for killing people and thus have been avoided.

•    Skill trees are….awkward.  They seem overly-simplified, and I felt as if I was often “shopping” for skills instead of developing them.  Each ability was a microcosm and even though they build off each other tactically, they did not really seem to be related.  I prefer the more linear skill approach from DA:O and the ME games.  It makes more sense character-development wise.

Story & Plot
•    The plot did not immediately endear to me.  I was often frustrated with a lack of middle ground, and often annoyed when my companions or others around me could not be swayed by my arguments.  After finishing however, I have decided that this approach is much more compelling and involving.  I was frustrated because the game actually affected me, and the choices that I had to make could not be made passively based on right/wrong answers.  Even when I had to think about what the best decision was, I was still deeply involved and invested in the game.  This is one of DA2’s biggest (and most controversial) strengths.

•    The time jumps made the story a bit disjointed, and definitely pulled me out of the game.  When Varric is ‘showing’ the story, I am literally and (mostly) whole-heartedly involved.  When the game pans out into the frame narrative and he begins ‘telling’ however, I feel like crucial details are glossed over and am no longer involved.  I like the idea of the frame narrative, but in this case it was very obtrusive, and when the time lapses occurred I briefly felt as if the entire focus was on Varric and that Hawke was a secondary character.  (On a side-note, Flemeth as a third-person near-omnipotent narrator would be awesome)

•    I didn’t mind that the plot was pretty linear.  It made sense since Varric is telling it as a story, and stories don’t (usually) jump around very much.  That being said, I did sometimes feel like I was forced into a foregone conclusion.  With persuade and intimidate options being removed, and a middle ground often not available, I felt forced to ‘pick sides’ even when doing so would be out of character for my Hawke.  I noticed on my second playthrough however, that the game keeps track of your green/purple/red responses, and that these work as a sort of intimidate/persuade check.  This is an incredibly innovative mechanic, and after noticing it I really like it and am prepared for the actions Hawke takes, and more accepting that I can’t outright choose how to interact with someone.  However, I would not like to have to play a game twice in order to not feel ‘trapped’.

Items & Inventory

·        The interface is a bit “modern”.  I never felt like I was looking through a ‘backpack’ when I was going through my inventory.  I appreciated that it was well organized, but after I paused I felt like I was playing a different game.

·        What is the purpose of junk?  I like that it’s clearly labeled as such (unlike in DA:O), but I don’t understand the need for it.  I would either like to see more done with this (junk as building items?  Side stories?  Ability to collect in your mansion?) or for it to be nixed completely.

·        Why can’t I do ANYTHING with companion armor?  Sure I can buy upgrades, but they don’t seem to change their outfits that much until the end.  I would be happy even if I got to choose a color (like alternates in ME2), or between the upgrades (keep the stats, change the look between three or four outfits).  Plus, companions don’t even react when I buy them clothes.  These should be gifts!

·        In the same vein…there is so much armor that my Hawke can’t equip and all armor follows the two-stat rule.  There was never a bloodmage in Kirkwall who preferred armor to robes and had high magic and high con but low willpower?  I felt like if I tried anything other than x and y stats I was unable to equip armor for my class.

·        Also, descriptions for armor, weapons, and items seem to have been taken out?  The dagger “bodice
ripper” doesn’t have a story behind it?  I loved these little nuances in DA:O and was sad to see them absent.

Companions
·        The companions here are much more compelling to me than in DA:O.  They seem much more
round.  They are their own people, and aren’t simply defined by the fact that they’re companions of my epic PC.

·        Yay for party banter!  I enjoy not walking the streets of Kirkwall in silence.  It’s always endearing or
interesting (though sometimes the timing is strange), and I have not heard many repeats on my second playthrough.

·        I would like to sometimes[/i] be able to click on my companions for conversations outside of their base.  There’s a point where a companion has a full conversation with you about the gallows, but this
never seemed to happen again?  Either more place/moment prompted conversations, or more times when I can (as Anders says) “just talk.”  Also, I would like to be able to kiss/etc. my LI whenever (or at least during mostly appropriate times). I would trade some party banter for more dialog.

·        The companions sometimes seemed closer to each other than they were to me, even with friendship meters maxed.  Why is Hawke not allowed to go play cards with them at the Hanged Man?  Why do ‘third’
companions always leave when Hawke enters a companions base?  Do they not like Hawke (well OK,  sometimes they don’t)?  I’d like to see instances of just ‘hanging out’ among the party.  One good scene would probably be enough to establish the relationships between the different party members themselves and between the companions and Hawke.

·         I like the romances (at least the two I’ve played through).  No complaints about the emotional progression, it felt natural and was marred only by the time jumps.  I like the slight variation between friendmance and rivalmance.  The romance scenes were sometimes FANTASTIC…and sometimes a bit vanilla.  I also felt like I didn’t really “know” the LI outside the romance. 

·        Expand on the gift system.  I liked how companion’s reactions differed based on whether you were a friend/rival.  I really liked in DA:O how there were some small gifts, and then two that actually triggered cutscenes.  There should at least be one gift per companion per act, but for some companions there was only one gift in the entire game!  My Hawke would definitely have bought gifts for her friends (don’t they have birthdays?)

·        There should be SOMEWHERE where all the companions are together, if only for the sake of being able to compare weapons/accessories. 

Quests

·        Most of the quests were entertaining.  I thought there was a lot more dialog which made the standard find something, fight something, get something formula seem less droll. 

·        I didn’t always feel as if the quests added anything to the story.  This is ESPECIALLY true with the random return quests in Act I.  I guess these were a way for Hawke to get enough money for the Deep Roads, but I didn’t ever have a problem getting the money, and even if I had there’s a loan option.  These quests just came off as lazy.  Some of them (the mage/templar quests), did add a lot though, and I had many favorites.

·        I thought there was a good solid amount of companion questing.  More wouldn’t be unwelcome, but I was satisfied with what was presented.  The companion quests really added a lot for me; in DA:O and ME2 I felt they were a means to an end (making my companions loyal/hardened/etc.), but in DA2 I actually enjoyed completing them.

Ending

·        I liked how it was done (mostly).  The ending is compelling, and I was pretty surprised (I was expecting a good climax, but I was still shocked).

·        I did feel as if I had not really had much effect on my companions/Kirkwall at the ending though.  The outcome for either choice is basically the same, the opinions of the characters are basically the same, and your
choices in the game up to the ending lead up to the same conclusion.  I could have played with no thought at all
and the ending would not have been much different for me.  This was disappointing.

Overall

- Strong points: party banter & dialog, design and 'look' of the game, comelling story, improved combat, streamlined crafting, more developed characters, more difficult choices.

- Weak points: lack of consistancy in quality of game, not enough dialog, rarely a 'middle ground', lack of connection between Hawke and companions, lack of companion customization, world does not 'evovle'

Modifié par zambixi, 18 mars 2011 - 07:43 .


#723
hawat333

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Ah! I found it.
Well, when talking about dull side quests, I was thinking of these:
Posted Image

:)

#724
Lucastake

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I have played Bioware games for many many years and I have to say DA2, was the biggest dissapointment from a Bioware game I have experienced, as I probably had such high expectations from you guys.

Lets start by saying, the main story line was good, but a tad shallow! You could have made the game so much better with stories continues from the original such as Flem and Morg! Which was mentioned in the first chapter of the game! The ending was a total waste of time and seriously inconclusive!

The combat and graphics were grand. But in terms of story and character development, this was an utter sham. It seems slightly half assed to me, and I understand it was developed in a rather short period of time but its no excuse from (in my opinion) the worlds greatest maker of deep story driven RPGs.

I am annoyed because I know all the new content will be out for DLC as a money spinner. You could have made the game great, its just average.
You should of brought in more characters from the original who make a difference, even the hero of fereldan. Even when we meet Grey Wardens within the game, they leave.

Again the story is half assed and I think it lets down the whole game. (the story however is well told, in its format it just needs more in depth story and more padding!)

#725
BobWalt

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One thing that occurs to me is that Bioware could come out with a simplified basic game that would be accessable to the more casual gamer and then come out with an add-on DLC that would add advanced game machinics and greater depth for those of us who enjoy the greater effort and reward that comes from a more involved experience.

Bob