Constructive Criticism
#51
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 07:57
I remember BG when encounters were thought out, we would fight parties of almost eqal ability to ours and those battles were glorious (even a couple of years afer release which was when I got into the game).
DA2 is poor, this stuff works in action games because you have the tools to deal with them , and those tools are not constantly on cool down.
#52
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 07:57
Chadthesad wrote...
HawXV2 wrote...
Enemy encounters
Why do they randomly appear? In Origins, you guys had it perfectly. Behind a door they would come streaming, or when you turn the corner, bam! Darkspawn! Now, they just...apear. Literally. I've defeated many a wave quickly, just to see a warrior phase through like Star Trek! Very immersion breaking.
It was an attempt to show how reinforcements would appear. It wasn't done great, but the concept is in the correct direction.
Oh wow. I hadn't thought of that... waves of enemies being
reinforcements. Kind of cool. I don't remember seeing warriors phase in
though... dropping from the sky/windows, yes, but not phasing. Most
likely I was just never in the right place or angle to witness it. The
only things I remember phasing in are shades, abominations, etc, and I
think that's their normal method of transport. Heheh.
With that
said, I don't mind the waves. It keeps me on my toes. There were many
times where I thought I finally made it, but then more came, and my
party was low on everything (health, stamina, and mana, cooldowns
still... cooling down) and thought, "Oh goodness, no!" In a good,
challenging way.
Rogue-type enemies
They're so overpowered! They'll disappear and one shot my healer, or if they don't, they'll half my tank's health! And there seems to be no CD. Tsk Tsk!
They can do a lot especially on Nightmare mode. I found mages to be more difficult. If threat was generated and the proper skills were choosen for warriors, Rogues mobs weren't able to do much. Yes, though rogue mobs are challenging.
I don't mind rogue opponents. I play a Rogue/Assassin and I can one-shot my enemies. So why can't my enemies one-shot me? It seems fair. I must admit that the first few times I encountered an enemy assassin, I was flabbergasted at how quickly they killed me or Anders. My warriors were in better shape to defend against them though.
So now, whenever I see an Assassin, I target them and try to assassinate them first. If they disappear, then according to one of the Loading Page Tips, area of effect talents/spells should still injure them and dispel the illusion, so I have Anders cast something (or if he's low on mana, then I just hope we don't get hit!). My warriors can take the backstab for the most part.
#53
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 07:58
1. Game development length:
Now, none of us know the exact length of development that went into Dragon Age 2 or if development started before Origins was released (keep in mind there was DLC and Awakenings developed to), but for Dragon Age 3, I'd like to see a development cycle of two years or a little more. I don't care if EA rushed you guys for DA2 or there was an active decision to do a sequel in a year's time, but Dragon Age 2 really could've used another year of development to hammer out the following kinks.
2. Level Design
I'll keep it brief since you guys have been hammered with it a lot: do not re-use level designs. It feels cheap and pathetic everytime I come to the same cave but there's a solid gray "door" closing off a section of an area that I can clearly see on the automap. I don't mind if quests have us coming back to an area we've already been to, but when there's nothing new to look at, (especially since the game is supposed to be over a number of years), it gets boring.
3. "ANOTHER WAVE"
I will disown Bioware as my favourite development company in the entire world if this aspect is put into any one of your games ever again. It's a cheap way to inflate difficulty into the game, it feels like a forced way to extend battle length without having enemy NPCs do something interesting, and it breaks immersion when non-fade like enemies materialize out of thin air. The only time I've accepted "ANOTHER WAVE" is during the Winters Mercenary fight when the leader clearly stated there are reinforcements on the way and there was a minor cut scene between each battle to indicate that we're still under attack.
4. Rogue Lieutenants (Assassins)
Rogues should not have more health and armor than their warrior counter parts. It's also stupid to make them luck based to control. Even if I taunt with my Warrior, their backstabs will randomly target any of my party members. Most of the normal ways to control them, that even work on your bosses, do not work on Assassins. The only solution I've found viable is to have one party member kite them for ten to fifteen minutes as my other party members deal with the other enemies (and waves) until the assassin is left and then continue to kite. If you stop, they'll stun lock you and probably kill a party member instantly. One wrong move, one bad kite, one hesitated second, and my entire fifteen minute strategy falls to pieces. This has happened on several occasions.
Now the good and apathetic:
5. Conversation Wheel
I completely understand the change from line based conversations to the conversation wheel due to having a voice character. I like voiced main characters and I like Male Hawke (haven't heard female Hawke). The conversation wheel is better than Mass Effect due to all of the kind of "emotions" you have control over other than Inquisitive/Renegade/Paragon in Mass Effect. It's a good step forward, but it does lose some of the moral ambiguity that Origins/Awakenings had. I really like the fact that you can hand the conversation over to a companion (like Varric) if they're better able to handle the situation. This is an awesome addition that needs to be in Mass Effect 3.
6. Companions
All of the companions are great. It's nice to see old faces with new. You guys have always done a great job creating fantastic companions. I can't wait to see what happens with them in Dragon Age 3. One thing that's missing though is being able to converse with them as much as you could in Origins (in the camp) or even Mass Effect (on the Normandy). You get a quest to go talk to them in their home and perhaps even take on some of their troubles and then that's it. You can click on them and hear a one liner at any time, but that's about it for constant interaction.
7. Customization in equipment
On one hand, I lament the fact that I have an excess of really cool helmets, armor, boots and gloves that are just merchant fodder due to the fact that none of my companions can be equipped with them, but on the other hand I like the fact that my companions have a "distinct" look that have upgrades. You guys should add in upgradable armor for Mass Effect 3, but please give us back full customization over my characters. The companions get decent armor ratings, and everything increases based on levels, but I'm one of the players that love min/maxing my equipment for the best effect.
8. Abilities
I love the skill trees. They're much better than Dragon Age: Origins. I've seen some complaints about not getting enough abilities, but I say "screw that!". I was overloaded with abilities in Dragon Age: Origins and by the time I got to a high level, I barely used my abilities that I gained at a low level, opting for my higher level earned abilities. Upgradable abilities was a nice touch and allowing for new combat options to open up with cross-class combos. Speaking of which...
9. Cross-class Combos
This is probably the most amazing feature in Dragon Age 2. They're well balanced, they're much better than trying to co-ordinate two mages pulling off a spell combination (or trying to combo off yourself) and allows for all three classes to have something to add to the damage. If there was one thing I'd want added to this system, it would be to lessen the damage and add a debuff. Did my Warrior just stagger an enemy? I can throw a Chain Lightning at the staggered enemy and do massive damage. What I'd like to see is throwing my Chain Lightning at the staggered enemy, do more damage (but not as much as what it's currently add) and add a debuff based on what I just used. If it's Chain Lightning, perhaps that enemy is now stunned as well from the electricity running through their body. Maybe they get an armor debuff or an attack penalty. Something like that.
That's all I can think of for now.
#54
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:04
General Thoughts:
The New Style: This is the big one, from which almost every like/dislike branches off from. Overall I like the game which is why The New Style goes in this column. I've been a fan of Bioware since they floored me with Baldur's Gate, and while I think there've been some rough patches (NWN single player campaign..) I love the company and I love their products. And while the thought of a spiritual successor to BG excited me, I loved Origins for what it was however I could never shake the feeling that it was held back from its own by tying itself so closely to Baldur's Gate. Origins was just too SAFE for Bioware. Too easy to fall back into what they once were instead of cutting a new path. And in an industry filled to the brim with copy-paste sequels and "Follow The Leader" mentalities, we need step forwards anywhere we can get them. We can't remake or relive that genius of BG, we have to press forward and Origins suffered because we fought against that. Dragon Age needs to be its own series with its own Style, and while it may have evolved from Baldur's Gate and tip its hat to its proud predecessor, the series MUST find its own sense of self for it to achieve greatness. And while these transitions to the Dragon Age style have been rough, I feel that with more improvements and refinements (even a few regressions to Origins), we can have a brilliant series on our hands here. Well, even more so than it already is.
- Waves of enemies. I like the idea overall, it adds another kind of tension to combat on whether you should front load your abilities to end the fight quickly, or save the big spells for when the reinforcements show up. Where this doesn't work well is with the fact that 90% of all fights have reinforcements, even when there is no reason this should be so. Gangs occasionally dropping from rooftops or window sills to help out their comrades? Demons being summoned by a blood mage hiding in the back? That's cool, but it has to be used sparingly and wisely, otherwise there ISN'T that tension, as you know that in pretty much every fight you have to kill a few waves of enemies, and it turns to tedium. If you need the fights to not have that many guys, just make the enemies tougher.
- Companion dialog. I saw a post about this the other day, basically saying that you couldn't get a very good feel for the companions during Act 1, because you never got the usual options of asking them about themselves and their past. I totally agree with this, but I also enjoy that more talking is spent on inter-party dialog and talking about things that they're dealing with NOW rather than what they did in the past (like Merril and her clan issues, or the Mirror) Finding some way to balance these two would be great. Also, the companion dialog availible in the houses (what few there are) are limited and don't show a lot about the character. Not sure how to fix that one but... just sayin'.
- Act 2/3 changing due to actions in previous acts: I have yet to complete my second playthrough, so I can't comment on how well this is done in the game. However I will say this: You've got this great setup to SHOW your actions really matter in the long run, and the changes should be much more than a few dialog changes and some sidequests. I think a 20% shorter game would be far more impactful on the player and on the industry at large if it changed wildly based off of your decisions.
- I'm not sure how I feel about a 60 dollar product with such an open ending to it. While I of course was screaming at the screen at the end, I wasn't really UPSET in a bad way because I knew I'd be getting the (meaty) DLC (we'll talk about this next) and the sequel, but what about people just introduced to the series? I'm not averse to having endings set us up for another or leaving some plot threads dangling, but at least in Origins and ME2 especially you got SOME sense of closure on the story, then with some tidbits at the end in case you were interested. I think that's a better way of doing it personally.
- Real DLC this time. Hour long crap just isn't going to cut it anymore Bioware. While Ostagar, Wardens Keep and Golems were interesting, 5 bucks for an hour long adventure that deals with only one minor thing just isn't filling at all, and leaves the player with a sense of "Thats it?". There's just no closure there. You got away with it for Darkspawn, Leliana's and Witch Hunt, because the first two were just off the wall (and while I overall thought they were okay, I like the different approaches), and the last because everyone wanted to know what the hell was up with Morrigan. I know voice actors make returning characters a ****, but these often flat side characters just don't match the great job you guys did with the originals (though the ones in WH were funny). So, maybe more a focus on 5-10 hour adventures with a real X-pac like awakenings thrown in for good measure? Or a character like Sebastian to join you on subsequent playthroughs. I just can't see myself purchasing things like the first mentioned group again, even if they were free, they're so paper thin I get almost nothing out of them anyway.
[*]New combat. Origins was fairly plodding with lots of bloated abilities and downright useless talents. More specializations or larger trees are a must for DA3. Also, adding to the ambiguity and forced-choices in the story/dialog, why not incorporate this into the skill trees? For example, lets take the Smashing Blow talent for warriors in the 2 handed tree. It has two upgrades, one that ups the damage and force, and one that lets it work with cross class/or takes advantage of it. Instead of letting players get both, why not make each one better, and forcing them to only pick one? I know this will make some OCD players disturbed by not seeing all the little bubbles filled in, but maybe the other talent could disappear once you make the choice. Also, it will help with roleplaying, as now you can say "My Hawke is a two-handed specialist with some tanking mixed in" instead you could say "My Hawke is THIS kind of Two-handed specialist with THIS kind of Tank mixed in". Again, I think it would help reinforce the grey-n-grey setting of the game even further.[*]More sidequests like the Wayward Son, where we get to see parts of it and the characters inside evolve more as the years go on (and maybe have those sidequests become different quests later based off of what you choose, instead of just getting another one/not getting another one based off what you do)[*]
Sorry about the length, I doubt anyone will read this but if so, I hope it was useful or at the very least interesting. If you have any questions/comments/snide remarks, please feel free to quote me or PM me.
Have a good one [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]
#55
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:05
Okay, perhaps not all that sinister, but we're paying attention.
#56
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:08
JohnEpler wrote...
Keep the feedback coming, folks. It is being read and.. collected.
Okay, perhaps not all that sinister, but we're paying attention.
Ah...I feel pretty happy now that my thread is being used for what it was made for. I hope I'm making an impact in my favorite franchise.
#57
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:09
#58
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:09
my complaint will be the total lack of exploration..i know DAO had a little of that ..but DAO at least had a map of Fereldan...the 2D map from DA2 is annoying ..so i expected a little more exploration of the Free Marches, this is my main complaint
#59
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:10
JohnEpler wrote...
Keep the feedback coming, folks. It is being read and.. collected.
Okay, perhaps not all that sinister, but we're paying attention.
Assuming direct control.
#60
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:10
Likes:
Dynamic personality system - which was only possible with a voiced character
Combat speed improvements, not as awkward
Difficultyof Nightmare is nice and challenging, while Normal lets more casual players to go through the game w/o feeling frustrated.
Better boss fights, less tank and spank more moving around.
A more personal story that allows us to focus on the lore and the depth of Kirkwall rather then have it spread out and unfocused. Sadly, this focus had some bad repercussions mostly with the re-use of areas and the same environments over and over again.
Good storytelling, much more personal and emotional
Nice enemy variety (assassins, mages, warriors, 2h warriors, blood mages, demons etc).
The decisions in DA2. Oh my god the decisions. I love them and how they were done.
Good soundtrack.
Nice crafting system, not tedious at all.
Friendship/Rivalry system
Neutral:
Companion Armors - its a love/hate relationship. I like the fact that the companions don't have to look ugly, but I feel restricted in customizing them.
Dislikes:
Recycled environments.
Removal of features like armor penetration and other combat features that added depth to combat (not really saying DA2's combat isn't deep, but it is simplified and is only harder and requires more tactical thinking
because of the more variations of enemies and waves...)
Bosses have too much HP and once you figure out the pattern can be very easy... Still better than tank and spank, but there are no surprises once you figure them out.
Modifié par Junri, 15 mars 2011 - 08:13 .
#61
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:11
Constructive criticism = "you had no eye contact during your presentation"
-OK so far so good -
Constructive unrealistic criticism = "your presentation did not cover topic X in its entirety"
Constructive realistic criticism = "the presentation should have at least touched on apect Y of topic X"
So John, what is our Constructive Realistic Criticism in this case, in order that we do not waste your precious time whining about the companion inventory lockdown, when this is non negotiable.
Set some parameters here please, or we will be talking cross purposes on a very long thread.
#62
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:11
Guest_simfamUP_*
Alot of people's rage comes from dissapointment, but are you really going to call this the worst RPG ever? Or the worst piece of **** you have played in a long time? There are hundreds of rubbish games out there that DA2 can smash into rubble! Still...I really think it's not fair on Bioware, the amount of entertainment they have given me is beyond 60$. And even if all this rage was expected, it's undeserved.
But I still think Bioware should be more clever, especially Mike Laidlaw who was abit too ambitious with Dragon age 2. If I was the lead designer and saw 1.5 years on a sheet of paper I would be more willing to do an expansion than a full game. Bioware your good, but not that good, and seeing that you have been drained with TOR + the release of ME3... I'm no finincial advisor or game developer, but it's not rocket science to see that a true sequel was impossible in that amount of time.
Yet I appreciate what you have done with DA2 in that short amount of time, but I think you were rather foolish in doing so. Fanboys, haters, lover, whiners, trolls...who cares... do you agree on my points? Or you just hate Bioware fully because of one game? Ofcourse if this trend goes on, and Bioware wants to take the direction of the Action RPG world, I will be very angry.
Taken from the "other" thread XD
#63
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:12
The camera was at times annoying. Personally I would prefer a detachable camera which can go higher. However if that is not possible I would really love for it not to "snap to" targets when you are positioning an AOE spell. It can occasionally be very difficult or even impossible to position them correctly because of this.
Wave combat would have been ok for a bit but obviously way overused. Would love to know the reasoning behind that design decision.
I think reused maps would have been ok if they had simply adjusted the minimap to suit each one. It would obviously be better if each one was unique but there were A LOT of them. Given that they wanted so many different areas they probably needed to do something clever. It isn't as bad a feature as is being made out. Again would love design comment on that.
Edit: Just thought I should point out that overall I think it is an excellent game, but this is the criticism thread.
Modifié par Malanek999, 15 mars 2011 - 08:13 .
#64
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:12
Guest_simfamUP_*
JohnEpler wrote...
Keep the feedback coming, folks. It is being read and.. collected.
Okay, perhaps not all that sinister, but we're paying attention.
YAY!
#65
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:16
Ostagar2011 wrote...
Unconstructive criticism = "your presentation was bad"
Constructive criticism = "you had no eye contact during your presentation"
-OK so far so good -
Constructive unrealistic criticism = "your presentation did not cover topic X in its entirety"
Constructive realistic criticism = "the presentation should have at least touched on apect Y of topic X"
So John, what is our Constructive Realistic Criticism in this case, in order that we do not waste your precious time whining about the companion inventory lockdown, when this is non negotiable.
Set some parameters here please, or we will be talking cross purposes on a very long thread.
It's all good to a degree, but here's an example.
'I thought X was too Y' is okay criticism. It tells us there's a problem, and that it's something to look at. 'I thought X was too Y for Z reason' is better criticism. It tells us there's a problem, why it's a problem and that it's something to look at. The best criticism is, however, going to be 'I thought X was too Y for Z reason. As a result, A and B happened and tore me out of the immersion', because then we have a lot of feedback as to why it's an issue, what the problem was and what the knock-on effects of that problem were.
Don't hesitate to post your criticism, however detailed! But that's the kind of criticism that's the most useful and most likely to give us something to work on.
#66
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:17
#67
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:17
JohnEpler wrote...
Keep the feedback coming, folks. It is being read and.. collected.
Okay, perhaps not all that sinister, but we're paying attention.
obviously Biowerez didn't pay ANY attention when people were talkin about what they like about DA:O because everything of it is gone in DA2
#68
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:17
#69
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:18
#70
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:19
#71
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:21
leniush wrote...
JohnEpler wrote...
Keep the feedback coming, folks. It is being read and.. collected.
Okay, perhaps not all that sinister, but we're paying attention.
obviously Biowerez didn't pay ANY attention when people were talkin about what they like about DA:O because everything of it is gone in DA2
If you care to elaborate, maybe, just maybe, you could have an impact on DA3. Just think of the possibilities! Or you could rant, I guess. They made mistakes, no doubt.
Obviously they, at least, paid attention to some points people disliked about DA:O. The silent PC, for example.
#72
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:24
Yeah, BioWare is looking at this thread for feedback. Instead of trolling, how about you give some?Merci357 wrote...
leniush wrote...
JohnEpler wrote...
Keep the feedback coming, folks. It is being read and.. collected.
Okay, perhaps not all that sinister, but we're paying attention.
obviously Biowerez didn't pay ANY attention when people were talkin about what they like about DA:O because everything of it is gone in DA2
If you care to elaborate, maybe, just maybe, you could have an impact on DA3. Just think of the possibilities! Or you could rant, I guess. They made mistakes, no doubt.
Obviously they, at least, paid attention to some points people disliked about DA:O. The silent PC, for example.
#73
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:26
captain.subtle wrote...
Also QUIT WITH THE OVERDONE ROMANCES! Its an action RPG for chirst's sake. We want more mature themed philosophical dialogues (like in Deus Ex, Planescape) than twilight rehashes.
LOL. Well, I liked the romances. Well done, Bioware.
I don't understand the griping about them since they are like -- so freaking easy to avoid if you're not interested. Most good stories have a romance; at least, in this game, you can have it or not as an option.
My only criticism with the DA2 romances is that they were a bit over-the-top "emo" in some places. Still and all, though, I applaud Bioware for how you handled them.
#74
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:27
I mean they're not barbie dolls. (Well...Isabella....). They're supposed to be their own characters. They can dress themselves.
I would like to have seen even more "costume changes" for the companions. Maybe like how Hawke wore different clothing inside, if they plan to visit a noble or viscount, etc.
#75
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 08:29
Merci357 wrote...
leniush wrote...
JohnEpler wrote...
Keep the feedback coming, folks. It is being read and.. collected.
Okay, perhaps not all that sinister, but we're paying attention.
obviously Biowerez didn't pay ANY attention when people were talkin about what they like about DA:O because everything of it is gone in DA2
If you care to elaborate, maybe, just maybe, you could have an impact on DA3. Just think of the possibilities! Or you could rant, I guess. They made mistakes, no doubt.
Obviously they, at least, paid attention to some points people disliked about DA:O. The silent PC, for example.
Yeah, and now you have 3 choices in almost every conversation, thanks.
Sure i can elaborate. Stop making stupid games for casual gamers with story which looks like it's wrote by 6 year old.
Let me decide of my companions equipment.
Let me decide what should happen with the story instead of making the choices for me.
Let me go outside this goddamn city, and I'm not talking about those 2 dungeons.
Should i write more?





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