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Constructive Criticism


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#876
taine

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Ok. I finally found the time to complete this game, and this seems as good a place as any to post my thoughts in the hope that someone at Bioware will actually notice them. I played through as a Rogue, with a sarcastic personality, did every quest I could that wasn't bugged, was full friends with most companions and rivals with Fenris (AKA Mr. Frownypants), and did the romance with Isabela. Many things have already been said, so moreso than just airing any grievances I may have I am going to talk a bit about the apparent design philosophy behind DA2. 

I'll go into this saying that I have played every game Bioware has ever made (yes, even MDK2) and I have enjoyed everything they have created. Some moreso than others obviously, but I have never had a bad time playing a Bioware game. That said, DA2 is the worst standalone game that Bioware has made. This is not as harsh a criticism as it sounds considering what it is up against, and I actually really enjoyed it on its own merits, but I couldn't help but feel disappointed by some things while being very happy about others. 

The watchword when designing every aspect of DA2 seems to have been "Streamline". Everything from combat, to companion interactions, side-quests, original content, and level design have been streamlined as much as possible. This makes a certain degree of sense given the fairly short development time for a full RPG, but while it did lead to some aspects of gameplay being improved, it also added a veneer of what I can only describe as apparent laziness to the game in certain areas.

This starts with the most obvious things -- sidequests literally appearing out of nowhere and vanishing with a click of an NPC, a total of perhaps five or six unique dungeon layouts repeatedly reused without even the effort spent to make an accurate mini-map, swarms of enemies allowing for nothing but essentially identical battles outside of bosses. I don't really care that much about those things though -- at worst they make side-quests feel a bit repetitive, but not to the degree where I wanted to stop playing. Happily the writing and characters were, for the most part, more than good enough to keep my attention. Where the intense focus on streamlining everything begins to go wrong for me is in the lack of original content or real world building.

I am interested in The Dragon Age Setting (TheDAS hur hur hur). I enjoy reading the Codex entries and listening to every line of dialogue that is uttered. I want to learn more about the world and see it grow through sequels. This is the main place where DA2 really disappointed me. I cannot speak to why, but very little significant new lore -- outside of a few tidbits about the Qunari that weren't entirely clear from talking to Sten in DA:O -- was revealed. I thought the new enemy that was introduced was pretty interesting. However, note that that was "Enemy", singular. By my count, the Rock Wraiths were the *only* entirely new enemy introduced in DA2. For a sequel to a game that already has a pretty thin Bestiary, that strikes me as borderline unacceptable.

Of course, it's not all bad. In some ways, I think the new design philosophy really worked. To be frank, I thought the companion interactions were a lot better and more focused than in DA:O. Granted, I wished that there had been a lot more of them, but what was there was for the most part excellent and felt much more natural. The redesign and simplification of combat worked in some ways and failed in others, but in the end I feel it came out a net positive. DA2 was pretty clearly a console port where combat design was concerned and that was frustrating at times, but the controls were significantly more responsive than in DA:O, and the abilities were a lot more interesting.

As a (mostly) unrelated aside, I want to compliment whoever wrote Isabela (Mary Kirby?). She underwent some real, honest-to-goodness character development over the ten year timeline, and was -- in my not so humble opinion -- the best romanceable NPC in a Bioware game to date. Kudos. 

So, in summation, while it was quite a bit better than one might expect from witnessting the massive outpouring of hate and vitriol towards this game on these forums and elsewhere, DA2 was clearly limited by its shortened development time. I did not feel like the game was rushed, exactly. It is certainly not particularly bug-ridden (though it does contain a few) and the story does not feel curtailed at all, nor do the majority of the real side-quests. However, I do feel that it was made a bit too quickly. I hope DA3, or the next expansion or whatever is given a sufficiently long development cycle to allow the folks at Bioware to do what I know they are capable of. 

Some other miscellaneous observations not entirely related to game design: as people have said, the framed narrative worked to introduce Acts, but not when it broke up the action. The 10 year timeline was also used very well to develop characters and inter-NPC relationships. The exception was the romance plot, where it just makes no sense that there was no change over a 3 year period, however reticent one or the other may be feeling at the time. I suppose it is an issue of player agency vs. a realistic narrative. I loved the "Dominant Personality" idea that led to varying canned responses when you didn't get a choice in dialogue. It made that particular change more palatable.

zyxe wrote...

GLOBAL HEAL POTION COOLDOWN
i really dislike the cooldown of ALL healing potions at the same time. while it hasn't ruined the game on normal, it just seems kind of silly. at the very least if the global cooldown has to stay, it would be great if they knocked a few seconds off the cooldown, even 5 seconds would make it nicer.

Just noting that this is inaccurate -- the health potion cooldown is per-character, not global. IE one character can use a health potion immediately after another has, but the same character cannot chug two in a row. If this were taken out, it would be essentially impossible to lose an already easy game.

Modifié par taine, 20 mars 2011 - 08:57 .


#877
Chiramu

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On a different note, I'd just like to pipe up that I REALLY enjoyed playing DA2.
The writers did a good job on the script and even though people have been complaining about the reuse of the environments; I don't mind that much because the environments are well done ^_^.

Only downside for me is the way both sexes can romance all LIs when you never hear from the characters that they are into boys and girls (except for Isabela of course, she looks more like a lesbian though ;)). Although this little thing has made me laugh a lot from reading Gamefaqs forums and CAD comics. Perhaps Anders comes onto a boy a bit too strongly in comparison to a girl? Considering he keeps going on and on about "I don't wanna hurt you" for a girl and for a boy HE initiates the flirting O_O.

But aside from that this game is awesome!

#878
Tomomi

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zyxe wrote...

oh... one more thing... i HATE the fact that there's DLC right as the game launches... flipping include it in the game. i paid $60 for it, i'm not going to spend another $5-$10 on another "part" of the game... i'm not talking stupid graphic packages, but actual content. i don't know if this was the case with DA:O as i only got it a few months ago, but...seriously. *grumble*


It is not quite like that. There are totally 2 DLCs out right now: Black Emporium and Exiled Prince.  In some way it was included with the game.  I bought DA2 off Steam, and it came with Black Emporium.  I am not sure this goes for everyone who registers the game.  Exiled Prince comes with Pre-Order of DA2 and/or the Signature Edition. So both DLCs were planned from the start to either combat piracy and reward pre-ordering/special edition packages. And while at it, might as well make it for sale to the regular DA2 buyers who somehow missed out and wanted to get them later on. So the price on these DLCs are justified, making those who own the special editions feeling valued.

Now since we are at it, I am hoping they would make a Lothering DLC where Hawke, after all these years in foreign soil, decide to return to at least visit homeland.  And perhaps he will decide to go back to Kirkwall because he has nothing left at Ferelden while already well established in Kirkwall.  This means this DLC can only be playable from Act 2 onward since Hawke is still a poor nameless sod in Act 1.

blush wrote...

Lack of epic-ness:

Repetition of areas, the idea of a day/night toggle, limited to Kirkwall and a political-only backstory made the world seem small and the reasons for Hawke's fighting weak. i still am confused as to why Hawke didn't return to Ferelden sooner or why the characters in the party were actually staying with Hawke.


I know, right?  Where is this grandeur?  With such heavyweight graphic engine and amazing DX11 features, you think they would at least try to give you more areas to visit to further revel DA2 in its greatness that Bioware works so hard to promote.  They should at least spend a little more efforts to do some fan service like allowing more pure sigh seeing areas of the city.  I was so tempted get to certain forbidden area like the balcony hanging high on top of Lowtown, or run out to the pier in Dock to enjoy the amazing views.

And Hawke's estate?  What kind of player house without any ability to decorate?  I also have high hope for a DLC to go back to visit Ferelden as mentioned above, and another DLC where Isabella gets a new ship and we get to visit the ship at sea.  No, I don't need to even control the ship, just the feeling of being on the deck to enjoy the breeze and gaze at the horizon is already enough to make me purr. <3

#879
Any0day

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I'll start with saying that I've been a Bioware fan for a long long time; since Planescape, Baldur's gate, etc. I'm a developer myself in real life (not a game developer though) and I understand the stresses are work it takes to complete something great. That said - I'd be a bit embarrassed if I had such a reputation as Bioware and released this game.

Story:
Anyway, I've played the game over a few times now, choosing a few different options and paths. The first thing that struck me was all these insignificant characters that had no meaning to me.
Getting these letters like "thank you for saving my life, I owe you and one day I'll make it up to you big time...
-love someguyorgirl
" Don't get me wrong, I think insignicant characters add depth - but having them catch up to me 4-6 hours after I saved them from some random roadside kidnapping or something just made me think: Oh ****, who is this person? Should I know who they are?

It was bad enough that I really didn't get why my character just decided it was a grand idea to go out and kill people every day anyway... I could see the motivation in act 1, money... after that I was just thinking to myself "why am I doing this?" You don't even meet the villian of the game until the last playable scene of the game - that's just... stupid.

Let's contrast - BG2 vs DA2:
Okay, I'm comparing sequels only because Dragonage sort of started where I felt BG started. It had an epic tale, but I expected DA2 to expand on that story not come up with a completely new one. I'm not against the formula you chose, though, novels do it all the time - to be wrapped up in a third book (first one that comes to mind is the Golden Compass trilogy).

I digress though; the reason I'm comparing these two games is because of the villian setup. Jon Irenicus, for all intents and purposes, is in your face the entire game. He haunts you, everywhere, and -- even affects the gamers psyche. All we are left thinking the entire game is: wow this dude is powerful, I want to be like that (which is why 90% of the first playthroughs for people were mage main characters)! It wasn't only the fact that we wanted to know his motives, but we wanted to be just as badass - the gamer, in the real would, was able to relate to the villian - and that's a feat.

In this game, all we are left with is: why do I care; what's this leading up to?... and when we finally come face to face with the villian (or two villians depending on how you look at it) - we find out it's your atypical "rawr rawr rawr, I'm going to destroy the world with my huge weapon *evil mad scientist laugh*" and we just don't care. There's no connection, not only in a gaming sense, but also a roleplaying one too.

In the end, when I finally beat the game I saw where you were going with all of it - and it was just very underwhelming.

Combat:
Not really sure where to begin here. First, I liked the faster pace of the combat - but due to the rather limit selection of enemy types, combat was mind numblingly boring.

AI:
Every single mage in the game was stomped to oblivion by my warrior on auto-attack. The AI was terrible - which may have been excusable even two or three years back; and instead of programming decent AI you chose to have mages cheat with some blink ability combined with globe of invulerability. Literally - the only thing programmed was some rudimentary threat based system with autoattack, and a few spells thrown in for kicks.
-------------
The compensation:
So, the AI was bad - and to compensate for this, normal encounters consisted of throwing 30 enemies at us while boss fights all depended on huge health pools. It's like watching a bad kungfu movie, where tons of enemies rush at the hero and are cut down one at a time. Immersion is kind of lost when every single enemy in the game either cheats, or is too dumb to do basic counters to you.
-------------
The conclusion:
"Less is more" sort of comes to mind right now. Less enemies with better intuition would have made fights more memorable. I'm not saying give every thug on the street their own combat style, but it's not as if you didn't program enough subclasses in the game to give us more variety, and it's not as if the AI didn't exist to be utilized. All the tools were there for you to use, you just... didn't.

Because of this combat was left uninspiring, dull, and insipid. There wasn't a single fight in the game that consisted of more than two enemy combat types. A mirrior matchup every now and then is exciting.

Area Design:
Most RPGs that I've played encourage wide open exploration, and while this game ''allows'' such things - it highly discourages the idea. Was the development team afraid I'd get lost or something; so they decided every area was pretty much "go from here to there"? I'm not even going to comment on the fact that every single area was copy&pasted. Honestly, that straight up shows no one cared anymore.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, really can't say much much more except I won't be blindly buying Bioware games anymore. Not because the game was flawed terribly, but because I saw little heart in the development. What you submited was a cold, sterile story and terribly executed plotlines. I see a development team that did everything just to slip by the standards.

I'd say take a page from Valve's motto "we're done with the game when we're done," but since this seems to be how EA does things, I can only fear this is what to expect in the future.

I'm sorry.

Modifié par Any0day, 20 mars 2011 - 09:53 .


#880
Jenova65

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Cybermortis wrote...

So...it is fine to murder a Templar by turning him an expanding red ball of body-parts, even though he is just doing his job. But its not OK to make a feral dog, who is trying to eat you, whimper?

Blah blah blah................ I can't even be bothered to get into this. The dogs are doing what they have been ordered to do and some of us just don't like it, they don't have the ability to reason that what they are doing is *wrong* so yes it is fine to *murder* a templar who knows what he is doing, he could beg for mercy and I would let him go.
End of story. I refuse to get get into a petty discussion on rights and wrongs of freedom of choice.

#881
limaCAT

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Just my two cents, and sorry if I barge into this thread. (Haven't finished act 2 yet).

The next time some bigwig tells you "we are going to release a complete game in under 18 months", you need to stand up and say "in that time we are going to release the first part of a story at budget cost".

I talk from experience: working with a ridiculous shipping date sucks. 2 years is not just the right time for making a game with the story breadth of DA2, and what you have done is in part a miracle denied by bad content reuse...

Mike Ladilaw at 1Up...

"Is it important to have more content in the game, or is it important that the content be 100-percent unique?" So we tried to strike a balance, and tried to evaluate a good way to use this.



But it wasn't a good way imo :). Metroid and Castlevania just do a better job at reusing assets or backtracking (part 2 of Symphony of the Night was just part 1 with the dungeon mirrored up and down, but no one said that it was cheap or ugly... it was also justified by the setting). I think it would have helped if part of the different-but-same dungeons were actually the physically same dungeon each one branching to a new area with the non-active parts closed off for some reason, and the common parts better integrated in the city, the wilderness or common areas... All those caves with the same exit on the coast... couldn't they have been different exits on the same map that we could acknowledge the next time we went there?

Modifié par limaCAT, 20 mars 2011 - 10:27 .


#882
Lavec

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I have played all previous Bioware games and love traditional CRPG games but I'm not too disappointed with the direction DA has taken. I think though that some elements lack the polish of a AAA game. This is from first impressions only as I've only played a little so far.

- Overlay maps. The vector drawn maps are quite disappoint compared to nice hand drawn (or seemingly hand drawn computer generated) maps. It down help to get a feel for the world.
- NPC AI. To watch NPCs walk in a random back and forth pattern like the AI of games in the 80s is quite disappointing.
- Environment interaction. It feels wrong to have objects all over the place you can't inspect or interact with. For example you can read the odd notice or letter but what makes you want to read that and not all the other notices and letters placed everywhere.

I guess maybe it's emmersion that's lacking for me. It feels limited by the lack of environment interaction and general polish.

There's still a lot I like about it though but this is a thread about constructive criticism so I've left it at that here.

That's all for now until I play more.

#883
Xextor

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I was dissapointed that the game didn't keep the story straight when it came to Anders. At first i was like, "oh, so this is where he's been for those 10 years mentioned in Awakening outro" but then when you have the option of killing him at the end, kinda kills that. Pretty sure it wouldn't match the Awakening story then ;P

#884
harrier25699

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It's a small thing but I would like to see the "automatically-take-you-to-the-character-screen-if-you-have-unspent-attribute-points" disabled or at least optional. I usually wait till all party members have leveled up before I spent time assigning skills and tactics. If I'm viewing the inventory on one character and I click a portrait to amend another characters inventory I don't want to be taken to the character screen, I want to stay at the inventory screen.

#885
Artoz96

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Greetings.

To begin with, I would like to thank you for the game. Despite all the disadvantages and
flaws of DA, only competitor in the RPG genre is Vitcher. Everything else is not even close to worth it. Nevertheless, compared with the previous games of your company, DA2 will be the worst of all you have created.

Also, I would like to warn you that English is not my native language, so excuse me.

I agree with all the negatives listed on the first page and so I will not mention them.

Story.

Do not believe it. Where Lothering? Where crowds of people fleeing? Where a sense of panic by the impending
inevitable death? Instead, we will leisurely travel for some strange wilderness (O don't remember desert near
Lothering?). You are excellent writers. Why don't you show a house in Lotheringe, a sense of growing panic among the people? Why not to show the hordes of creatures surging over the city?

You say that Hawke is a simple refugee? So how a simple refugee can shred opponents with
such ease in the beginning of the game? How he manages to cope with the Ogre? In DAO ogre has killed the king. We, as a gray warden had to fight with a Ogre in tower and he was alone! and it was really challenging.
But a simple refugee kills Ogre and even the crowd of Garlocks without any problem. If refugees are so cool, why they lost Lothering?

Here we are in Kirkwall. Hawke is a poor refugee and lives in a shack. But questshe have to do is just the same
as in the act 3, when we have received honor and respect. What's the difference? And if there is no difference, there is no atmosphere. And if there is no atmosphere then we don't have immersion in the game.

Further, the events occurring in the interval between the acts are absolutely haunting. I do not remember what happened in the first act from the moment I entered the city to the time when I went to the deep roads. In the second act I can only remember the moments associated with the family and Arishok. In the third, again, nothing memorable except fight with the bosses.

And you know what is worse? I can not answer the question - why? What  all of these 7 years are for
(and we were promised 10 years) what was our goal? I never understood what we did? Choose a side? Is that all? We just need to choose who to fight the final battle? For me the purpose of this game remains unclear.

Quests.

Quests are similar and only lazy guy didn't mention it. I have another claim - a choice. I am a player who loves the genre rpg and want to have a choice. I want game to evolve depending on my choice. Except for a couple of cases with a family there is nothing I can change in the game . For example, in one of the quests I specifically looked for consequences. In one case, I saved a mage, in other I  sent him to Templar’s . In both cases, that
mage attacked me in act 3... So what's the difference? And if there is no difference then why all this variants? I
am paying real money for real consequences of my choice in game. If you give me just illusion then I will give you just illusive money. I think it would be fair.

Combat system.

Many of the things implemented in new animation of combat I just do not understand. Why did the magician have
to turn stick around before fire? For me, it gives nothing to feel of action but in terms of common sense it's
just ridiculous. I would understand if the actions of the characters depends on the leveling ability, but it is not.
Mage use Staff at level 1 just the sameway as at level 25.

Stuffing the screen does not make the feeling of immersion into the game. Why
are the opponents are bloody walking bombs?

How can we talk about immersion in the game when enemies appear in front of my character out of thin air? Let the number of enemies be less, but make them more difficult. Let their be no more than 8-10. IN Baldur's Gate 2 it was implemented perfectly, I remember the soldiers of the drow, which went against our party sometimes even in a smaller number (priest and 4 warriors).

It's just not even logical. Everybody knows about the champion Kirkvola, but persist in the hundreds to get out of sewers, jumping out of windows and appear out of thin air to kill us.


classes.

I do not like the direction in which the game is developing. Why do you trying to make balance between classes just like in MMORPG? This is a single player game. In the world of DA magicians are vary rare and they have unique abilities. Instead, we slip to version of mage from Diablo. Elemental magic, really? It is boring! Yes, it is possible to mention other schools, but they dont very usefull. Infectious bomb has a very small radius. Curses are recharged for a long time and taking into account the 20 + enemies are virtually useless. Blood Magic? And what is the fundamental difference? You are making a mass area damage dealer from the mage. Why do you need to simplify it so dramatically?

I have a very simple proposal for the mage. Divide the spells and abilities. Firestorm is not the ability, it is a spell. But how effective it will be, it should depend on ability. Because weapon of the mage is not a staff, but
spells. It's like the warrior have sword, mace, spear, halberd and other kinds of weapon. Doing this you will add variety and interest to the mage class and keep the balance in the amount of abilities between classes. Give us the opportunity to search for powerful spells, like we did in Baldur's Gate!

Thief.
School of shade was absolutely useless. Why do I need that 100% chance
of critical hit with the impact of the shadows, if at the end of the second act, critical hit chance with my thief was 80%? Why my rogue cant steel items from shop, why cant he make traps or to create a poison? Is the difference between a warrior and a thief is just a weapon?

All other point were already mentioned so its all I have to say. :)

Modifié par Artoz96, 20 mars 2011 - 11:56 .


#886
MorseDenizen

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Very nice so far! was a bit non plussed by how non commital it felt in the beginning, that said DA:O made the game feel really personal by comparison due to the way the story was constructed. The only thing 'd like to see toned down a bit or sorted are the exploding enemies it feels a bit too ott other than that I'm still at the beginning so looking forward to see how it all pans out :D

#887
Morroian

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[quote]Artoz96 wrote...

Do not believe it. Where Lothering? Where crowds of people fleeing? Where a sense of panic by the impending
inevitable death? Instead, we will leisurely travel for some strange wilderness
[/quote]
Leisurely? It hasn't been leisurely in any of my characters.

(O don't remember desert near
Lothering?). You are excellent writers. Why don't you show a house in Lotheringe, a sense of growing panic among the people? Why not to show the hordes of creatures surging over the city?
[/quote]
Maybe they didn't have the resources for what would be a very small part of the game..

#888
Eva1346

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I have to agree with most.

I did miss several things tho

1.Camp
all your characters were there and you could check in with everybody. If they didn’t like each other they stayed away from each other… It had a kinda homey feel to it, like your little break away from all the craziness…
and sometimes people would jump on you if they had their two cents to add after certain quests: like the Redcliff castle quest with Connor, Ailistar totally cussed me out when I made the “not so smart” choice... I totally felt like a little school girl being yelled at by a teacher... totally didn’t expect that
Especially in the last act when u get attacked in camp. That moment basically said: this is it. Get real, no more time for cuddling and lovey dovey stuff, it’s time to kill that Archdemon. It changed the entire feel…

2. Character development
Also I liked that you could sway people’s opinions and eventually sway them to agree with you as long as you made a convincing point, like talking with Sten for example. When I first got him I was thinking we are never gonna see eye to eye, but eventually I learned how he sees the world and was able to make him see what I mean...
Same with Morrigan.
Or just simply the fact that you can “harden” characters, so that they make their own choices differently.
Also the fun conversations that don’t really affect anything like Wynne’s story about the Griffons…
Anyways, in DA 2 it seems like that the characters are so far gone in their mindset that they will not change whatever you do, in that way I felt like Hawke didn't really affect their life… Wouldn’t it be nice if you could convince Merrill that Blood Magic is evil or Fenris that not all the mages are monsters? Nope, their minds are made up…
3. Fights
I have to say I loved the fights in DA: O where I had to really struggle to stay alive. All your buddies have fallen and you have only a little sword to defend yourself from a horde of darkspawn running towards you. You go in this sort of “survival frenzy” and then you look around and mountains of dead creatures lay in a circle around you and your team is slowly waking up…
Or the blasted High Dragon… woah that thing was a piece of work…
Didn’t happen to me in DA 2. Yeah there is no shortage of enemies, but they are either too easy to defeat or it feels “unnatural”
I do like the speed though, took me a while to get used to, but I just wish I had more cool moves, especially as a dual weapon rouge…
4.Enviroment
It was said before, recycled maps… yeah… no discussion needed
Also I felt “smaller” because I didn’t get to travel and become notorious. I got all excited about the Deep Roads expedition but it was super short… I expected an epic underground tour like the Paragon quest in Origins. I would have also loved a trip to Starkhaven to help Sebastian, or a visit to some remote smugglers cave to retrieve “the relic.” How about a quick trip to find the Dalish for that tool that Merrill wants into some forest, because come on, why in the world would the Elves just hang out at this measly camp site for 7 years…
There was so much potential…

5. Equipment.
Dragon Scale armor? Hello? I missed seeing Master Wade and Herren…
Yeah and some of my companions outfits became lame… I romanced them just so that they would freaking CHANGE… It’s cool to have individual outfits for them, but maybe a few variations that you can choose from?
6.Chatter
I LOVE the party banter. What I didn’t like is that it happens in the field. It already annoyed me in Awakening. So they start talking and its super interesting and then some stupid bandits attacks and I don’t get to hear the rest. Bummer…
Here is what I liked:
The Dog: I could summon my puppy, so instead of having to “sacrifice” one of my party slots to him I could let him tag along wherever. Love it.
Decisions: I liked that in DA2 I had to eventually side with somebody… boy was I mad at the first enchanter… I almost turned around and loaded my last save to side with the templars…
Visitors: I got to see a whole bunch of DA O and DA A characters, which was really neat… Miss Oghren tho… he and Varric would have had sooo much fun.
Just to name a few.

#889
Caja

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Xextor wrote...

I was dissapointed that the game didn't keep the story straight when it came to Anders. At first i was like, "oh, so this is where he's been for those 10 years mentioned in Awakening outro" but then when you have the option of killing him at the end, kinda kills that. Pretty sure it wouldn't match the Awakening story then ;P



Could you use a spoiler warning the next time, please? Posted Image

#890
Artoz96

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[quote]Morroian wrote...

[quote]Artoz96 wrote...

Do not believe it. Where Lothering? Where crowds of people fleeing? Where a sense of panic by the impending
inevitable death? Instead, we will leisurely travel for some strange wilderness
[/quote]
Leisurely? It hasn't been leisurely in any of my characters.

(O don't remember desert near
Lothering?). You are excellent writers. Why don't you show a house in Lotheringe, a sense of growing panic among the people? Why not to show the hordes of creatures surging over the city?
[/quote]
Maybe they didn't have the resources for what would be a very small part of the game..[/quote]

Ok. Just a little question... how do you imagine peole fleeing from war? Have you heard "run for your lives"? In other words if you are a refugee, act like refugee and not like a regular army.

By the way, if you dont have resources dont do it! It also about animation whan we come to Kirkwall on ship. Do you remeber this consists of triangls rocks? It is terrible! If you cant - dont do it.

Then again bioware want a full amount of money for their product. I, from my part, whant full game, and I dont need excuses about not anough resourses. You know how blizzard says? "Game is ready when it is ready".

Modifié par Artoz96, 20 mars 2011 - 01:06 .


#891
L33TDAWG

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For this post I will critique DA2 by 5 categories: combat, character development, story, and setting. DA2 seems like a step back for BW in terms of options, but it gives them a chance to catch people's attention and bring them along for the long ride that this series will hopefully have. Most of us were wanting to see a traditional RPG similar to BG or at least close to DA:O because of how much lore and nastalgia traditionals like these bring about, but instead we have been graced with what seems like an attempt at a stat based hack and slash, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, that gives visual appeasal and quick lift off from what we are used to.

Combat
DA2's combat is very basic at the heart of it all, you can take a defensive approach and be tactical about what you are doing or go all out swords swinging and staves twirling. While in DA:O the cross class combos weren't so clear, but fun to discover, DA2 takes a different approach by pretty much telling you that upgrading this ability will allow you to do extra damage to an enemy who is DISORIENTED, BRITTLED, or STAGGERED. From there, it's pretty much just finding a class that can do either of those and then you are pretty much set in the damage apartment. For the more hardcore players, like myself, you can turn up the difficulty between casual, normal, hard, and nightmare. The difficulties are comparible to DA:O with a few tweaks in nightmare. When playing on a harder difficulty, you find yourself pausing a lot more and setting tactics to make sure that your team operates at its full capacity, distributing buffs and making sure the tide is always turning in your favor.
One thing you notice right off the bat is DA2's waves of enemies that attack you when doing quests or just walking around at night. DA:O would have benefited from having a few more waves spawn, given how easy it became. Although the spawning isn't exactly player friendly (enemies always spawn all around you, so no place is safe for a squishy), it's still a refreshing twist that leaves your blood thirst well satisfied after you managed to survive what was suppose to be an obslaught for you. Easy fights benefit from waves, but a great deal of the fights just seem down right unnecessary and overall tedious in how you have to go about them. There isn't a great variety of skill needed to beat your enemies considering all the enemies you fight are mages, warriors, and rogues. The only difference in the game is fade beasts and Qunari (Same classes just a different look and different spells) when it comes to a variety of enemies you must fight. Fade creatures such as Pride demons, Desire demons, Rage demons, and Revenants offer a little difference from the basic fighting you do, but you fight them enough to tire of it pretty quickly.
Enemy classes are just like yours, except it seems like they don't have CDs. When going up against an enemy lieutenant alone, be prepared to spend a good few minutes on him if you can't stop him from using potions! Rogue lieutenants are much more deadly on any difficulty, they stealth every few seconds and pop up behind you or one of your party members and one shot anyone below who doesn't have enough armor or points in constitution to survive the blow. Your best bet is to try bursting him down as quickly as possible. Warriors prove to be very little in challenge just as rogue archers are, but mages are only deadly when going up against a saarebas (Qunari mage); they're highly damaging lightning spells can dwinde your numbers quickly without proper maneuvering.
The larger boss battles boil down to phasing, and it's been noted that it has a "WoW" feel to it. Not only do they shift through different situations, but they conjure up constant adds that become a real pain fast! You should be prepared to wipe at least a few times before finally getting the pattern down. Without waves of enemies pooring in, the boss battles would be comparable to DA:O battles, except for the fast that there's a lot more phasing involved. Combat can be unforgiving, but with the right group set up, or if you prefer to take on the kite fest of soloing the game, you can have every boss defeated without even breaking your stride.

Character Development
Dialogue galore in DA:O, so what happened to it all in DA2? Going to your camp in between quests to listen to your companions talk about their past life without you was satisfying when looking for information about them, lore, or if you just wanted to skip the dialogue to get the companion quest just to get the exp. You could talk in your camp or outside of it and give numberous gifts to them to try and reach max approval. This gave you an immersive feel as you invision what they went through and all that happened to your companion. In DA2 there's hardly any talking between you and your party members (I guess they do it all over the three years you aren't playing), but there is random chatter that they begin while walking around outside of their individual houses that gives incite as to how they feel, but don't expect to ask them about it like you could with say, Sten, when he cited verses of the Qun while walking along.
One thing DA2 does right is companions quests, they span throughout the years and really get heated, but with sometimes rather poor scripture writing, it can break the mood they are trying to set. There's only one companion you actually need to bring along to fully complete his quest, and as you should know that's Fenris. Stepping away from the need to bring them along and ruin your perfect set up that Origins had you do, was refreshing in the greatest sense.

Story
With DA2's story, it feels like it's from an entirely different game. DA:O seemed to be more relative to what is happening in Fereldan, but when DA2 came along with its mage vs templar dilemna, it felt like an entirely different game that isn't part of the series, or DA:Os was just there to set up lore and not the bigger story that comes about.
DA2 has a great tragedy, but it feels poorly executed at some points. Fleeing to Kirkwall to escape the Darkspawn threat that is soon to destroy your hometown, it sounds exciting and like something you want to play through, but we are instead greeted with a short scene of mountains and darkspawn killing, which sets up narration, and introduces you to the "new and improved" DA2 world. BW could have added a cutscene of what life was like before the Darkspawn threat, Hawke in battle, and them gathering their things to flee. It's a sure thing that they could have done one of those things to draw you into the game a little more because it everything they open up with feels pushed onto you. From then on it's following a straight path that offers a few choices to shape up hardly anything as you "rise to power". The meaning of "rise to power" is never made clear, whether they meant it in the literal sense (you get rich and live in Hightown), or is it because you killed a Qunari and saved the city (Which all you do is get a title). Either way, the story feels a little rushed and downplayed from what some of us may have been expecting.

Setting
Kirkwall is a greatly detailed city, well what you see of it, that depicts a social class system well in the small areas you can visit. You see how rich compares to poor, but what you don't see is any great change through out the year, even when the Qunari attacked and fires brokes out everywhere. Sunermount is absolutely stunning when standing high on the mountaintop, and the scenery is spot on. The Wounded Coast really boasts a great view of the sea, and the atmosphere holds true for all the raiders and sea fairers you meet. Going into DA2, you might expect to see change over time or unveiling of new parts of the city, but what you see is really all you get. It's a let down compared to how big DA:O was, and also how diverse the places could be. They did an excellent job with matching scenery with the scenario, but for DA2, it was reuse after reuse. The single fade portion of the game, as sad as it is that there's only one. really was an improvement over DA:O. Who couldn't resist playing with those barrels? It was interesting to walk through a door into different scenarios and play along with the demons.
The small areas did questing justice, allowing you to get to the location and hop into the action. Running from one end of Orzammar to the other, going through 4 load screens was really a pain. Welcoming the easy and quick areas to navigate with open arms was easy, That was a big positive for having such small manageable areas, but it did take away from the overall feel of the game none the less

#892
Woodstock-TC

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no complete review yet, as im not through so i wont assess the story yet. but sincerly, for me the main problem is the rushed dev timeline and trying to be the first new 'DIABLO' out there rushing for what was it.. 10mil+ copies.

++ alas i like the voice overs and the options to give funny remarks. both male and femhawk are excellent drawn and the voices are sympathetic and strong. Kudos to the actors (need to look up the names) the Hawk character is very cool and i like them.  their graphics are very nice as are those of the other companions as well. i also like that there are different animations for male/females, so even though the dev time was short you heard our voices from our ME2 rants.

+The idea of the family tale is also clever made and although too quick at start to catch its a nice parallel evolution

+/- dont like the narrator style so much at start as it makes it hard to get involved with the chars. somehow everything is past and you get pushed around from one place  / time to another. it starts to work out later tho.

+/- repetitive stuff: i could live with that indeed. Afterall when i was a Kid i played hundred hours of ELITE flying basically to the same sprites. It doesnt helps building up a good atmosphere tho, nor do i ever remember in DA2 if i searched all spots having passed by the same loc already x times before.
btw. talking about the reuse of stuff.. its funny seeing the ME2 drinking animation or hearing Mass effect Background tunes (galaxy map) with slightly different instruments (such as at the Wounded Coast).. really makes me feel at home.. well Mass Effect wise. ;) - is that good for DA2 ? well..

++ characters. I do like them, although you guys must learn to keep continuity even between DLC´s or stories. Merril the Dalishs character in special is totally changed from DA:O.


- clean: everything too clean and too small. Just one city to explore, and it feels as unsatisfying as my old Diablo Hellfire, which is well how old exactly now ? Denerim may have been generally smaller, but especially the market place was way above anything Kirkwall offers. Remember Britannia in Ultima VI and VII ? now that were cities. (Btw also a company which got problems after EA.. but thats another story)

- Fights: generally there is nothing wrong with fast paced fights. But alas they are never elegant, never eyecatching, feel always rushed, and partly ugly. I have over 2k screenshots from DA:O especially from the fight scenes. Im not bothering tho to take any shots from this game. It all happens a tad to quickly and the effects of your specials are just mixed in a general unsatisfying choreography. The gore looks plain ridiculous . Enemies getting splattered in funny looking robot pieces from 1 dagger hit.. What can i say. It could make up for some funny award. I mean it does indeed look funny if that was the purpose.
The waves of enemies and missing strategy is unfortunately deception as well here.

- missing driver at star (beside the family stuff which is definately good for some points)t: ok so after reaching kirkwall downtown, why exactly do we do what we do. The driver is not exactly clear first. We just get 50 gold to get into some expedition and just continue an endless killspree but why exactly. mind you, i can live without, but it doesnt makes up for a great story if you dont have a strong driver. Afterall a strong threat(like Reaper threat in Mass Effect, or the blight in DA:O) can bring you to hard decision wheather you need to bypass some peasants to save time getting xy to save a whole planet/people/xyz or not. Here you just take/or leave the hit. (with some smaller exceptions). I mean its an interesting concept, you try to use the story channeling the events "pushing the group" to the main story where past and presence will finally meet. 

You apparently lost somewhat your pen and paper base which is where your D&D ruleset titles came from and where DA:O was still drawing from. DA2 wouldhardly  made a P&P worth or proof adventure as you had a tad weak story to guide and forsee group actions. Yet you are still trying to push the 'group' in one direction for no obvious reason. In a P&P group this mastering style usually always led and leads very quickly to the exchange of the master or adventure.

Its not a must to check against P&P, neither ME nor KOTR or the great plotted underrated Jade Empire required it, but itscertainly a good Q&A check as they all drink from this well.  Would my game make a good P&P adventure as RPG game? Does my Advenutre fits ? Would my group want to play it ?

- Last but not least following the forums and DA2 board since last year it was interesting to see how self confident part of the Bioware team got and reacted to critics during the design phase. It was mostly a 'take it or leave it' & 'forum reflects only small part of the player base' reaction. Some of valid critics were already available back than.

All in all, i think the main issue is the short dev time (who did and why agree to that anyway?). The rest may be fixed with some more time and tweaking.


br, Wood

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 20 mars 2011 - 11:58 .


#893
Soulcheg

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Don't know if already mentioned that, but -

DAO, Blood magic - It was assumed that blood magic hard to learn, hard to master and hard to practice, and only few can cast something powerful.

DA2, blood magic - every single mage can cut his hand and instantly become a Tevinter's magister of a blood magic.

Modifié par Soulcheg, 20 mars 2011 - 01:57 .


#894
TheChosenKing

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Soulcheg wrote...

Don't know if already mentioned that, but -

DAO, Blood magic - It was assumed that blood magic hard to learn master, hard to master and hard to practice, and only few can cast something powerful.

DA2 - every single mage can cut his hand and instantly become a Tevinter's magister of a blood magic.


This. Also, since most of what I disliked about the game has already been addressed, I'll save it for later and say that I'm still annoyed everyone seems oblivious to the fact that Hawke uses Blood Magic (if you choose to do so). I'm standing here having a conversation where Hawke just said something along the lines of "They're using Blood Magic, they must be stopped!" Yet everyone had just saw me stab myself in the gut with a blunt staff two minutes ago :huh:?

#895
Igib

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I forgot to mention a few things in my previous post. Adding them now:

dialogues
+ voiced pc, feels more alive than a mute
+ dialogue wheel, a must have for voiced pc
- dialogue icons.. are unnecessary/unwanted help and I would welcome an option to turn them off

combat
- sometimes it's really hard to find the right spot for targeting objects or moving enemies (i.e. shades)

music is average, neither good nor bad

playtime was decent enough, alhought about a third shorter than DA:O

On my next playthrough I found it strange that I didn't care much about what decisions I was making.
I had already known what would always happen (this illusion that you can change something, only to realize later that it's set in stone and your decision doesn't matter - I can't go into details without spoilers), therefore making those "decisions" was a bit hollow.

That said, I still enjoyed parts/elements of the game, just not the game as a whole.

#896
Pyrate_d

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As someone pointed out, the game would have been a LOT better if you had started out in lothering going about your business, hearing about the darkspawn, and then finally fleeing. This would give a much better chance to develop family members, and would just feel far more complete. I realize that this would involve a slight change--in the game, it's implied that warrior hawke/carver were at ostagar--but this could be easily changed.

#897
Isavald

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For the most part I agree on what everyone else has been saying, I just wanted to throw this out there for the devs to see and wasn't going to sift through 36 pages to see if it had been said already.

I didn't like how most of the companions were set to one design or role for the group. I found it sometimes made it awkward or less practical to use the characters in the combinations I wanted. I have seriously spent time just walking around in DAO and now Kirkwall for the sole purpose of hearing the banter between them.

This is one of my favorite part of your games, the character interaction. Note: I'm not asking to have every character made bland for utility, quite the opposite.

I was just very disappointed when I discovered Fenris was incapable of wielding a shield and one handed sword and Aveline vice versa. Or that Merrill could not heal. Based on what class and build you go with your Hawke, I felt pushed to use certain characters for the sake of game play. Basically back to Origins when you could use the character and their set class for the various roles the class is capable of.

Lastly I'm not against the set upgrades to companion armor, but make some of them drops, have them add more flare or design to their current clothing/armor or have it change it altogether. Its pretty dull to just walk around and purchase them. 

For example, a companion who is a templar, have a personal quest or a segment in the overall story in which templars or something related is involved, during this you could obtain for this character a cosmetic/performance upgrade.


Thats all I have besides please take what your fans in threads like these are saying into consideration for future titles.

#898
Giubba

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Just finished my first playthrough.

I think DA2 is a great experience in terms of story advancment, lore and whatever gravitate around those two important factor but i cannot say the same thing for the gameplay.

As a lot of other people pointed out there are 2 main element where DA2 falls short ; first the map's reuse, second the inexplicable high amount of enemy waves that forms the battles.

Both point were already explained in depth so i can only add my voice to the choir but with this said i think DA2 is a worthy game that deserve a more rightful treatment from both critics and supporter.

#899
Abispa

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I wonder how long it will be before Bioware introduces special outfit DLCs for DA2, like they do with Mass Effect. To be honest, it really didn't bother me a much as it seems to bother a lot of you, but even I have to admit that the armor choices aren't awe-inspiring. I would have loved to have given my pirate-mage outfit to Isabella, and more mage outfits where I could wear pants instead of a long dress. It seems ironic that we finally get a game that allows mages to be physical and kick-ass and we still have to look old-school D&D.

#900
EddySpeddy

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How about replacing JUNK with money. Say this piece of junk is worth 4 silver, give us 4 silver instead of the junk xD Hope a mod comes out for that or something :D