Aller au contenu

Photo

Constructive Criticism


2797 réponses à ce sujet

#951
Sarezar

Sarezar
  • Members
  • 34 messages
My initial issues with the game:
- Interrupted!... Interrupted!....... Interrupted!............
I hated how you would be interrupted all the time when trying to use a power or spell. It needs balancing. Mostly because you need to spam the button, the character doesn't try to complete the power after being interrupted.

My later issues with the game:
- Storyline. Playing the part of a refugee who struggles in a city's slums trying to make money and protect his family is not epic at all. The build up is too slow, I needed epicness from start.


I had a lot more issues with the game when I started it, bugs and waves of enemies were some of them, but when I realised that Bioware was trying to create a Mass Effect game in Dragon Age universe, I started liking all the changes. I actually went from being angry that I preordered the game to actually enjoy it a lot. 

Iwould have preferred a proper Dragon Age 2 though. As much as ME2 was a success, that doesn't mean we want ALL our games to be copies of it.

PS. Most suggestions in post#1 are great. If you make DA3, please make it like DA1.

Modifié par Sarezar, 20 mars 2011 - 10:22 .


#952
Persona

Persona
  • Members
  • 128 messages
I also agree with everthing. I also didnt like the fact if your character used Blood magic no one cared. But Anders cared about merril Using but never gave a crap about me.

#953
Immer Rastrelly

Immer Rastrelly
  • Members
  • 59 messages
I'll try to summary all what I've got about DAII for myself at current momen (rematk: I still didn't finish the game yet ^_^)

MAIN and, in fact, only problem is *generic quests*. I thought BioWare burned on it in first ME, but no... Every first quest is built by scheme: receive - fight way to key character - decide something - (rare/optional) fight way back - report to questgiver. Yes, some quests should involve fighting - but why the hell can I just try to play as a diplomat?! In fact, my favorite part for DAII is it's casualty. Not gameplay casualty, but storyline. You're not a Chosen One. You struggle to live - and to live good. And that's what I like in this game! Why the hell I can never persuade anyone to give up fighting BEFORE I slaughter dozens of his/hers sidekicks?!

Also, a strange moment... Sometimes after longly placed events (ACT II and III, for example) characters share their memories of events, which were ending years before! Everyone should've already forgotten this things - but no...

#954
Vint1

Vint1
  • Members
  • 20 messages
My main concern is the lack of development time.

EA pushes out content, priortizing capitalizing on
previous successes over actual quality. This isn't meant to be a troll. Or to say EA is the devil. Or whatever. I am constructively pointing out that, historically, the games that were given more time to develop were released virtually bug-free and with less padding out the playtime. The gameplay issues have already been pointed out - rotating 10 maps for about 60 quests, or more. The sewer has the same model as a templar sanctuary and a serial killer hideout. It's just silly. But, let's look at history.

The Sims 3, also by EA, releases two expansions a year. These expansions have historically been released with very problematic bugs. Every single time.

There's actually a bug that is
just underneath the border of "gamebreaking" that was released with the
first Sims 3 expansion. To date, it still remains unfixed. The cause? Using
any of that expansion's content. The expansion was released over a year
ago. It doesn't look like a fix will ever come, and the devs stopped
communicating on it. They made an attempt to fix it, giving reports on
the progress with several months between them, released a patch that was supposed to merely prevent it but didn't undo the damage it caused, then the bug
pops up yet again with no comment to it.

Don't think this could happen to Dragon Age? In
Dragon Age Awakening, released rapidly after the first release, shipped
with a bug that deleted all of your gear when you hit the Silverite
Mines. Unless you knew about the bug beforehand, you wouldn't find out
everything was missing until you hit the end of the dungeon and open the
chest to retrieve your stuff only to find it's completely empty. This
bug is still present and it's been a year. There are a number of other bugs that prevent Oghren and Sigrun's companion quests for most players who weren't aware of the bugs beforehand.

Now, in Dragon Age II, there's a bug that hits toward the end of Act II or III where your character gets a stacking attack speed penalty if they have Isabela's approvement perk. The game becomes completely unplayable, unless you're okay with playing only with the other three members of your team and ignoring Hawke.

Please tell me Bioware isn't
falling into this trap. They've done so well with Mass Effect,
the release schedules are given plenty of time to iron out bugs and
avoid padding to fill the hours of playtime. I don't get why they aren't
allowed to do the same with DA. :(

I'd take a 3 year gap between games where all of the major quests included their own unique areas to flesh out Kirkwall and its surrounding areas, a more polished combat system, and fewer bugs over a 1 year gap between games that gives us...well...this.

The game's potential glimmering through the cracks has been a deeply frustrating sight, that a game that could have easily contended for Game of the Year rivaled only by its sister series Mass Effect was released as only "good enough."

I hope that didn't sound hostile. I have nothing but respect for Bioware. The game screams of a conflict between developer and publisher, due to what the game clearly wants to be. It's amazing to watch the game make do with what limited features it has. They somehow made quests still interesting even though they constantly reuse the same environments, but it's starting to burn me out.

#955
Ahisgewaya

Ahisgewaya
  • Members
  • 553 messages

Cybermortis wrote...

**May contain minor spoilers for the start of the game** 

In DAO you start with your own origin story, this allows you too see where your character comes from and meet people you will run into later on. The ultimate ending of all the Origin stories is that you end up with the Grey Wardens, you simply have no choice in the matter. But strangely enough this fixed ending doesn't feel forced even if you've played it 20 times before. It is a logical outcome of events you've just played.

By the time you get to Ostagar you know where your Character has come from, so you can start to think how they will view and react to the world around them. The first part of Ostagar is a pause in events, with no action until you get into the wilds. However you have the option to look around and talk to people, from the guard outside the Kings tent to an injured soldier, or you can just run straight to Alistair and continue on the main quest - you can also pick up two minor quests if you wish too.

The wilds quest is also done well. For new players it gives a great chance to really get to grips with the game, plus you can stop and talk to two of your companions and learn more about them - in fact you can learn more about Sir Jory here than you can the characters in DA2. In repeated playthoughs the wilds quests are small enough that you can fly though them in short order, before you get really bored. The ending with Flemeth and Morrigan is just long enough to do its job, but not quite long enough to get really annoying.

Returning to Ostagar you can drop off a quest, then take the joining. Slow going with all the cut scenes but capped off by the magnificent start of the main battle. At this point you get dropped right back into the action, doing your best to get to the top of the tower before the battleplan falls apart gives a real sense of tension - even if you know full well the ending is going to be exactly the same. As it started this part ends with a world-class cut scene that leaves you wanting to get revenge there and then.

The next part back at Flemeths hut runs slower, but it clearly sets out what needs to be done and gives you a chance to get to know your new companion.

Lothering is optional. You can bypass it (missing out on a companion or two) or you can spend the time doing the minor quests there. Staying in Lothering gives you a great feel for the world, how the average man feels as well as the chance to pick up companions, get to know the people you are travelling with and get some XP, money and even equipment. Staying also allows you to level up a bit, which allows you to customise both the main charcter and companions so they will fit together as a group. If you want to do so you can start turning Morrigan into a healer, or Alistair into a duel welding/2H warrior.

Things end when you leave and end up at your camp for the first time. This is the end of act one, and at this point you know who you are playing, what you are trying to do and also know something about the people you are questing with. It is also notable in that the basic question as to why all these people are travelling with you can be answered - Lilliana will note that '..Elves/Dwarfs must want the blight stopped as much as anyone...' if the warden is not human. So even if you haven't talked to companions a single line has just explained the motivation of everyone around you.


Now lets compare DA2. You start with a long cutscene, which turns into a fictional account of the mythical Champion's battle against the darkspawn that does nothing but show you how to use the combat abilities. Then you have another cutscene which ends with character creation. So in the first 10 minutes you haven't in fact played as the Champion at all. 
When you are done another cutscene starts, this time you are the champion and get told you've just lost everything...that would be the 'everything' you were not aware of. Did you loose you home? A mansion? A lover? Was that your father you lost? 
No idea, we've just lost everything apparently.
Oh, and the people you are with turn out to be your family. You only know this when two of them are told to listen to their sister/brother. And you only realise that the woman telling them this is your mother when you see her name hovering over her head, or when one of your siblings calls her mother.
We now get to walk along a long path, fighting off darkspawn who appear to be more interested in waving swords at you from 200 yards away that doing anything about the woman with the sword 10 feet behind them you meet. Brief cutscene/conversation in which we learn more about the Husband than the wife. Followed by continuing to walk along the same path and fighting more darkspawn.
One of my apparent siblings gets killed and my apparent mother decides to blame me for this, even though I had just been knocked 50 feet by an enraged Ogre and had no option to do anything. I'd be upset about this death, if that is I had been aware I had siblings for longer than five minutes or maybe had had a chance to talk to them at some point.

Another cutscene, a long one, followed by another cutscene that tells me about the long trip to my new home. Here I have to talk to Captain Generic Guard, and have to fight someone who thinks his 20 men are going to be able to get inside a fortress by killing all the guards. I would have tried to talk him out of this by pointing out that he is outnumbered about 2000-1. But I can't do this for some reason, I can only assume that the teleportation device he uses to call in the last 15 men prevents logical thinking or speech in anyone within 100 feet. Still he probably realised his mistake as his men vanished into red mist when I sunk a dagger into their backs.

Another talk to the guard, a three day wait in which I appear not to have talked to anyone any more than I did on that long sea-voyage that brought us here, followed by a short meaningless quest that will get me into the city. Not one quest but two...not that my choice makes any difference.

Another cutscene, telling me that I've apparently been in the city for a year, before I get the chance to be shouted at by one dwarf then have a more meaningful conversation with another. I have a great opportunity it seems to become a partner in a trip into the Deep Roads. I ignore my own observation that if I had the amount of money needed to become a partner I wouldn't need to go on the trip in the first place, and agree. Throwing logic and quite possibly what little self-preservation I had into the wind.

Does my new Dwarf companion have any idea how I could get the money? Of course, just run around town doing random quests for people. No big quests that might get me the money all at once, no that would be too easy. Instead I should develop my talent for being able to look at random items and know who will pay good money for them.

A quick trip home and I discover that after a year my Mother hasn't bothered to ask to see my grandparents will. This is only understandable as she is apparently still moaning about my dead sibling and is incapable of saying more than 10 words without mentioning their name and sobbing. I'd feel bad about this if I'd known them, or for that matter ever had a conversation with my apparent Mother in a year. As it is I just want to slap her across the face and point out that her remaining two children would like to have a conversation where they are not made to feel guilty for still being alive.
At this point the surviving sibling, who I still don't know because we've had one conversation in the year since we met, raises the idea of looking for the will. Even when I get this, because for some reason you can't go on a trip into the Deep Roads without having your grandparents will first, my Mother will show the first sign of senility by declaring that 'you three are Ferelden'. I'm not sure who she is talking to at this point, since only two people in the room were born there. I can only assume she is including the Dog.


In DAO I had, by this point, a good idea who the Warden was where they had come from and who my companions were. I felt somewhat attached to them, could see their point of view and had given at least two of them gifts because I liked them. I also knew where I was going and why, or at least I knew the places I would have to go to and why.
In DA2 I was wishing I was an only child and that my Mother had been eaten by the Ogre - in hindsight I would have been passing the salt. I'm also wondering why I feel the need to go around making all this money so I can go on a trip, when I could just keep the money and end up in the same place without risking getting killed in the process.


Cybermortis, you are awesome. This sums up a lot of the things that really pissed me off about this game. 

#956
fraquar

fraquar
  • Members
  • 80 messages

Immer Rastrelly wrote...

I'll try to summary all what I've got about DAII for myself at current momen (rematk: I still didn't finish the game yet ^_^)

MAIN and, in fact, only problem is *generic quests*. I thought BioWare burned on it in first ME, but no... Every first quest is built by scheme: receive - fight way to key character - decide something - (rare/optional) fight way back - report to questgiver. Yes, some quests should involve fighting - but why the hell can I just try to play as a diplomat?! In fact, my favorite part for DAII is it's casualty. Not gameplay casualty, but storyline. You're not a Chosen One. You struggle to live - and to live good. And that's what I like in this game! Why the hell I can never persuade anyone to give up fighting BEFORE I slaughter dozens of his/hers sidekicks?!

Also, a strange moment... Sometimes after longly placed events (ACT II and III, for example) characters share their memories of events, which were ending years before! Everyone should've already forgotten this things - but no...


Dude, in the end you ARE the chosen one, it's scripted...  

#957
Ahisgewaya

Ahisgewaya
  • Members
  • 553 messages

imooumoo wrote...
 Just give these fans (Dare I say butthurt fans) some time to replay it the 3 or 4 times they will and come to the realization that they were over critical.


The fact that you used the....well...it's not really an actual word now is it? The fact that you used the imbecile expression "butthurt" shows that anyone with either taste or sense should ignore anything you have to say. 
People who don't like a game do not play it 3 or 4 times. They rarely, if ever, play it twice. I know I don't intend to touch this a second time, and am now contemplating how much I could get for it on Amazon.

#958
imooumoo

imooumoo
  • Members
  • 66 messages

Ahisgewaya wrote...

imooumoo wrote...
 Just give these fans (Dare I say butthurt fans) some time to replay it the 3 or 4 times they will and come to the realization that they were over critical.


The fact that you used the....well...it's not really an actual word now is it? The fact that you used the imbecile expression "butthurt" shows that anyone with either taste or sense should ignore anything you have to say. 
People who don't like a game do not play it 3 or 4 times. They rarely, if ever, play it twice. I know I don't intend to touch this a second time, and am now contemplating how much I could get for it on Amazon.


http://encyclopediad...ca.com/Butthurt

Mabye you should lurk moar?
I am allowed to use any term I want. Butthurt is an internet term so of course it is real. I do not care if you think it is in poor taste, it's a funny expression. You have definantly used the words to "own" or "pwn" so do not give me crap for using internet slang when I GUARENTEE you have as well. That is what happens on forums, and that is what you should expect.
Have a problem? Talk to Bioware about it.

#959
Vint1

Vint1
  • Members
  • 20 messages
The thing about DA2's story is that I question whether it needs to be epic in that way. It's a story taking place in the world. Starting out as not a big great hero that everyone knows about was very interesting. I could mold who I was in more directions than I could with the previous hero. Instead of either wanting to save the world or being reluctant, I could choose motivation to do what I do without an obligation to save people.

The Grey Warden story and the Champion story had their own strengths and weaknesses. I appreciate both, though I do believe there should have been a sequence taking place before running from Darkspawn in Brownworld at the beginning.

If you think this is colored by my being a sheeple, see my last post. ;p

#960
Thibbledorf26

Thibbledorf26
  • Members
  • 225 messages
I have completed the game, and have some updated impressions. The game was alright but overall disappointing. One major aspect that became dreadful towards the end was the reusing of areas, visiting a small number of areas again and again gets boring, and the tremendous re-use of areas is a big no no in game design.

Most quests felt very repetitive, and I just wanted to get the game over with by the end, it felt rushed.

There also were not any major decisions that mattered really, the same events would occur regardless. DAO had major decisions that mattered. Many people say the decisions in DAO did not really matter, but I think they did- the fate of peoples could be decided by you, it would result in a different post-quest cutscene and dialogue, references by other characters, different armies available to you, and epilogue references. That is enough repercussions for me. It's a matter of opinion I guess.

I will give Bioware credit for great side-quests and storytelling in DA2, the characters really came to life and were three-dimensional, especially characters that you interact with throughout the span of years.

But overall it really felt rushed, it felt like a heartless product designed to make money out of the DA reputation.

I believe Bioware and EA did market research on previous games like DAO, that said that most people did not replay the game, most people did not focus on environments, so they decided they could get away with reusing environments and taking away choice in major decisions. There is a problem with their market research, they base too many decisions on research that only tells part of the story. The core fanbase are evangelizers for the DA brand, and they will replay RPGs and experience different parts of the story.

Having real choice will make the game feel different even if you only play it through once. People talk to each other, people who play RPGs will talk to their friends who play RPGs, if they all had the same ending and outcomes when they played differently, people will know.

People surveyed may not list detailed environments as part of their interest in games, but it is silly to re-use the same boring environments because of that! People may not comment on good, detailed backgrounds, but that doesn't mean they won't notice! People do subconsciously notice good backgrounds, they may not remark on it, but they WILL complain if backgrounds are not detailed.

Bioware, please do not make games based on superficial market research and design by committee, because it seems like that is what you did here. Before the fans tell me 'how do you possibly know how they developed the game' the answer is I don't. And neither do you, or anyone except Bioware and EA. But it really seems like this game was developed by design by committee. They thought they could get away with a rush job IMO.

Don't try and change the RPG genre to compete with more popular genres like FPSes and Action games, because there are companies that have been making mainstream games for decades longer than you, focus on what you are good at please. DAO and your other core RPGs made a lot of money. If you want to expand your audience please don't change the nature of the games, just focus on voluntary tutorials/manuals, in-game help and 'quick level up' options, to help people who need a head start into the genre. Or improve the interface and descriptions of abilities. Don't strip them out please.

Voice overs and the new combat system were great (besides the lack of high overhead view), and the talents were interesting and balanced. The plot was really mature and intelligent, but the experience was not above average.

#961
Ahisgewaya

Ahisgewaya
  • Members
  • 553 messages

imooumoo wrote...

Mabye you should lurk moar?
I am allowed to use any term I want. Butthurt is an internet term so of course it is real. I do not care if you think it is in poor taste, it's a funny expression. You have definantly used the words to "own" or "pwn" so do not give me crap for using internet slang when I GUARENTEE you have as well. That is what happens on forums, and that is what you should expect.
Have a problem? Talk to Bioware about it.

You can guarantee it all you want, you are still incorrect. I do not use the (so called) word "pwn". Bioware did not say I was "butthurt". You did, so I am talking to you. The fact that you think it is funny is also telling. I bet you think farts are hilarious. Anyway we are derailing this thread and we need to stop now. Also, spell the word "more" correctly. That site you posted had a pop-up asking me "which math do you like?". This does not speak well of your source when that happens.

Modifié par Ahisgewaya, 20 mars 2011 - 11:24 .


#962
Sammyjb

Sammyjb
  • Members
  • 234 messages
Presentation:

I liked the presentation of Dragon Age ][. The framed narrative really was used well to tell the story, and the intro made the game easy to get into to. The UI looks a little sci-fi, and doesn't seem to fit with the "Medieval" type story. The menus also suffer from this issue. The dialogue wheel worked fine, but it also looked a little to sci-fi for my taste.
8/10

Characters:

I really liked some of the characters in Dragon Age ][. Merrill was so very cute and shy, Aveline was likable, and Fenris had an enjoyable backstory. The Meredith vs. Orsino fight was fun, but I feel like they made Orsino more likable and that took away from the end of the game choice. Some of the side characters were entertaining, and but none of them were too memorable. In this section I also include cameos from Origins. I actually (believe it or not) feel like there were too many cameos, as it is a different location. Cullen, Leliana, Zevran, Nathaniel, Merrill, Anders, Isabella, and Sketch made it feel forced. But I really shouldn't be complaining about that
9/10

Graphics:

I love the new graphics style. The team really succeeded in their goal to have it be recognizable as its own IP and not just another Tolkien style fantasy. However, the exploding limbs and such really took away from the immersion. No one who gets stabbed bursts into forty pieces.
9.5/10

Story:

A lot of people felt the story was a little lacking, but I disagree. The main story arc took some very interesting turns, with the murder of Leandra and the destruction of the Chantry. I do wish that the three arcs were a little more connected, as each felt like a different tale. The framed narrative was used well, but I would have liked to see more examples of Varric exagerating as that would have made viewers question what he was saying more often.
8.5/10

Combat:

Despite my worries, combat has remained tactical. The fight with the ancient rock wraith required quite a degree on micro-managing, and was very fun. But the simplification of the level up system was a little dissapointing. I would have liked to see a wider variety of powers, but I do like the upgrades and the companion specific specializations. I just wish they could have chose another one as well, in case you wanted to change what their roles was.
7.5/10

Improvements over Origins:

There were many areas that were improved upon from Origins. The characters now have multiple quests, not just one. The story was more focused and the storytelling was excellent.The side quests felt more like regular quests, and there was a greater variety of them.
9/10

Things that were removed from Origins that shouldn't have:

I really miss the old speak. It seems to me that the people are talking a lot more modernly, and throwing in curses just for the sake of cursing. The rehashing of areas wouldn't have pissed me off so much if they had said they were the same area, and not just tried to pass of Fenris's mansion was five other ones too.
6/10

Favorite part:

Varric's personal mission in Act 2. Combined some cool myths with the lyrium idol, to some epic battles, and some awesome use of an unreliable narrator. Really fun mission and a funny one too.
10/10

Least favorite part:

I can't really think of any part that really pissed me off. I guess when the first re-using of areas occured, and then the second, and then the third, I started to get mad. And the Arishok battle was completely unfair and unbalanced.
7/10

Bang for your buck:

I capped off my adventure at a little over 40 hours. It was a fun time and overall, I liked the game.
9/10

Final Score: 83.5 out of 100.

#963
Vint1

Vint1
  • Members
  • 20 messages
Another problem with recycled environments is that I lose a sense of where I am. The Brecilian Forest in DA:O looked like the Brecilian Forest. They weren't the Brecilian Forest, the Korcari Wilds, and the Frostback Mountains. Suddenly, every quest I did sent me to a vague "place in this section of the city".

This is similar to the hypothetical of all of DA:O's sidequests involving Denerim's streets, as well as a large chunk of main quests and companion quests. Main quests became indistinguishable from secondary quests and side quests. All three sent you to the same areas, just with different people.

#964
taine

taine
  • Members
  • 310 messages

Any0day wrote...

No, I'd give it a 62/100, which is failing... these are the same people who brought us Baldur's gate and Planescape; they literally wrote the damn book on rpg gameplay and story standards.


Just noting since you've brought it up a couple of times, Black Isle made Planscape, not Bioware. They also made Fallout, and were partially responsible (publishing) for BG and BG2. There's a couple holdovers from that time still at Bioware, but most are elsewhere.

And everyone is going to have their own opinion, and care more about certain aspects of the game than others. There's no point in trying to convince them that they are wrong.

Modifié par taine, 21 mars 2011 - 12:04 .


#965
1varangian

1varangian
  • Members
  • 301 messages
It really did feel like they cut everything down to the lowest common denominator - gameplay, companion inventory, re-used areas... In hindsight DA2 does feel like a soulless, calculated corporate product.

They tried too hard to squeeze in something for everyone in the least amount of time. The end result is not a great RPG and not a good action game. The actual story is really short and the game is only artificially lengthened by the countless waves of trash mobs and fed ex quests.

To be fair, it's still a 'good' game. But with Bioware the expectations are higher. It's a waste of their talent to push out something like DA2 when they could have spent a bit more time to create an RPG masterpiece.

#966
fraquar

fraquar
  • Members
  • 80 messages
Gotta be honest here, Bioware's street cred is only as good as their NEXT release......

#967
Bone-Dragon

Bone-Dragon
  • Members
  • 37 messages
Just tried to play through the game again, this time as a warrior on Nightmare. Act 1's main objective is so tiresome and unbearable that I just quit. I beat the game once, I have no interest or will to play it through again. Next time you design a storyline, don't include hoarding quests to progress onward... Delivery Boy action for 1/3 of the game makes it unbearable to play a second time.

#968
fraquar

fraquar
  • Members
  • 80 messages
Delivery Boy - yep....

#969
Guest_CassolicFusion_*

Guest_CassolicFusion_*
  • Guests
Also..for DA3 please..
-Bring pickpocketing back.
-Let us choose our race.
-Let us choose our companions armor.
-Bring back the old dialogue system from DAO.It's so limited in Da2.
-Give us some summoning or shapeshifting spells.

#970
Jenova65

Jenova65
  • Members
  • 3 454 messages

imooumoo wrote...

Dear Bioware,

Dragon Age 2 is a really great game. Sure it's not as good as the original, but it definantly improved it in many parts.
These fans were  just overhyping the game and expecting another Mass Effect 2. It's hard to make 2 perfect games in a row.
Dragon Age 2 does not deserve all this harsh criticism. Just give these fans (Dare I say butthurt fans) some time to replay it the 3 or 4 times they will and come to the realization that they were over critical.
It was a great experiance, and in a month everyone will come to realize that as well. Do not let this deter you from what you do best. I do not need to tell you what that is.
Thank you Bioware for making another fantastic gaming experiance!

With the kindest regards,

A fan

Have you read the entire thread? I suspect not because if you had you would have seen that John Epler commented right back on the first page and later on stating that they appreciate the constructive input and reading the thread and taking everything on board.
This is not a thread slating the game, you misunderstand, it is *constructive* criticism by people who (btw) have enjoyed the game and are offering their perspective, you might well dare to say *butthurt fans* but it makes you look a bit daft ;)
(Oh and I have played it twice, my points still stand, even more so, actually, go figure................. :P)

#971
fraquar

fraquar
  • Members
  • 80 messages
Constructive criticism that is censored (i.e. I like the game) isn't really constructive criticism, It's censured criticism.

#972
Jenova65

Jenova65
  • Members
  • 3 454 messages
It's really cool that BioWare are watching and reading this thread, they still want to make games we want to play :)

#973
Dexter111

Dexter111
  • Members
  • 53 messages
In Dragon Age 2 you play as Hawke (Warrior, Mage or Rogue), a survivor of the battle of Ostagar and refugee from the now destroyed town of Lothering. The first time you get to take control over him, he is in the process of fleeing from the Darkspawn hordes together with his family. You don't really get to know them so it is not very surprising that it would leave you uncaring to... certain things happening in that event.

Why can't the game start in Lothering instead, where you might start to appreciate your "home" with the hot topic around town being the currently waging war... introducing the characters for about an hour and forming a bond/connection to them till the Darkspawn come about and start ravaging everything so you can actually care?

During that Prologue, as one of the first things you also meet your first Companions aside from your own family, Jaheira and Khalid (now named Aveline and Wesley). A few fights later you find yourself on a boat floating towards the city of Kirkwall, a city that is apparently so overcrowded they can't let in any more refugees. Of course once you get in you find out that it isn't exactly as full as they make it out to be, either that or they purposely lied to you... because aside of the few vendors that don't really want to talk to you and let you rummage through their coffers instead and a few decorative NPC groups that look like they've fled Everquest for higher-resolution pastures which you can literally walk through, there's barely anyone around. Some of those vendors apparently can't even afford a chest to store their wares in, but let you stare into their empty market stand and discover all sorts of wondrous armor instead.

You can barely get around with all the refugees clogging up the streets leaving dirt,
their belongings and muddy blankets lying around all over the floor.

Posted Image Posted Image
"Please kill me..."

Posted Image
 "Quality armor, the best outside of Orzammar"... he says


There's one word best describing Dragon Age 2: lazy (alternatively rushed or disappointing)

Graphics/Environments
While the graphical quality of the game and the engine behind it has increased overall, which can easily be observed by the improved character models - barring of some of their horribly malformed hands - , lighting, shadows and a few parts of the game including DX11 features and improved downloadable High-Res Textures: http://social.biowar...age/da2-patches ), the use of it and general set pieces has not, in fact it has decreased by a lot... while Dragon Age: Origins was also... sketchy at best within certain areas a few examples like the start of the human origin or the dwarven city were generally more carefully designed. The city of Kirkwall is just a set of repeated building-blocks and textures and looks more akin to what could be produced with the Neverwinter Nights 2 Toolset (or a Lego set) some years ago, rather than an actual "living city". It has the appeal of a German plattenbau and is disjointed even further by the repeated zoning and loading screens. I estimate there was probably more work behind a single Mass Effect 2 quest-hub than the entirety of Kirkwall. This is especially regrettable, since almost the entire game is spent in this very city of Kirkwall... and not only do you have to walk through all the "districts" (so aptly named Hightown, Lowtown and Darktown) anew in every Act both by Day and Night to hand in quests you have to complete and get new ones, but they're also used in story context several times and even inspired some of the very few "dungeons" the game has to offer, notably for Darktown and its wallpaper-like layout, but also the Docks/Lowtown which look eerily similar to one another.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

  • 1) Brown waste without any kind of vegetation or features, also tenderly labeled sh*t mountain by certain people.
  • 2) There's trees! 11 of them! Otherwise most of the "out-of-town" backgrounds/skyboxes resemble the planets from Mass Effect.
  • 3) Look, it's the quadruple towers of Kirkwall! And they all look exactly the same.
  • 4) The towers are celebrating their comeback in the skybox of Hightown. I count at least 4 of them. The rest of the buildings are the same you'll see all over Hightown and are all also base building-blocks carelessly placed with very little to no detail or prominent features to stand out.
  • 5) You start to think that either those towers are a very integral part of Kirkwall or that a level-designer was a little lazy doing his job, there they are again. This time in the skybox/background of Lowtown and there's at least 5 of them. All the rest of the buildings look almost the same. Same re-used texture on every wall, same windows/doors, spikes in 2-3 variable musters on each and every surface...
  • 6) The Docks use the same buildings/building blocks as Lowtown in a slightly different configuration, the same textures all over the wall that were used for Lowtown, the windows are all rectangular and black, there's spikes everywhere again. In the background to the right there's a large brown texture, that is supposed to be a mountain... or something?
  • 7) All buildings in Hightown look alike, both from the out- and inside... again same building blocks repeated everywhere, same windows and whatever those decorative things on the roof are. Even the trees are exact clones of one another. There's no dirt, mud or anything on the ground, just boring featureless stone slabs.
  • 8) Darktown, while it looks different and has a few new textures I'm not exactly sure what they were going for. It looks like there's wallpaper hanging from all the walls and the ceiling.

Some examples from some of their other recent games that they can do better than this, including Dragon Age: Origins
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted ImagePosted Image Posted Image Posted Image  Posted Image
There's more detail in that first room of the human noble Origin (including armor stands, wood textures, brick walls, chimney etc.) than in large parts of Kirkwall.


Talking about dungeons, there isn't exactly much variety available, there's 5 or 6 in total (cave, deep roads, mansion, warehouse and darktown) and by the end of Act 1 you've already seen them all... Let me repeat that, by the end of Act1 (of 3) in a Single Player RPG, almost all sense of discovery and mystery is gone because there are no new areas to explore, merely retreading of the old ones. There was a point where I had to run through the same underground cave for 4 side quests in a row. Not only do they heavily reuse the same levels, but they also have these giant "stone slabs" that either act as a very classy barrier so the dungeon seems slightly different or a door.

Posted Image
Gee, this looks... natural...


The combat and out-of-town (as few as they are) areas and dungeons are usually entirely linear, you'll be lucky if there's a single fork in the road that goes two ways. There's not much sense of exploration as you can usually only walk a few steps to the left or right at any given point on most of those maps and further they're not very memorable.

The story spans a 7 year narrative. Varric, the local storytelling dwarf and teller of your tale gradually skips a few chapters so he can get to the uninteresting parts depicting your character Hawke collecting 50 sovereigns or helping totally unimportant people with their insignificant problems. Despite of the skips through time several times and certain things happening around the city, not much change takes place in either the Free Marches or the city of Kirkwall and although 7 years might have passed people (including your companions) don't seem to age or require a change of clothes. Nor do any of the merchants on the city streets decide to move at all, waiting for you to talk to them on the same spot they were years ago. The buildings all look the same as they did before, there are barely any changes to the city and the story always takes place around the same time of year so there's no snow or rain or anything to remotely distinguish it from a previous Act. Even the senile barkeep in the Hanging Man tavern can delight you with mostly the same familiar rumors he already told you 7 years ago while not many people are willing to talk to you about the past events (or at all for that matter) aside of the few words your companions utter every now and again.

The quests range from rather swell to mind numbingly boring, unfortunately the latter represent the majority. I won't deny that some of the main quests around the Hawke family, the Qunari and the overarching conflict and your companions are rather well done, encourage you to contemplate every now and then and also have fairly well written dialogue options, which incidentally is also the best part of the game.

But alas, most of your daily chores consist of your band of adventurers getting the task to save someone (let's name him "Bob") or collect something or other, which usually ends with you traipsing across the land, entering a cave and disposing of all the foes within then initiating in a bit of dialogue and repeat. Alternatively you might also be charged with killing someone directly or picking up a certain number of items, which doesn't seem to change all that much about the basic procedure. Most of these quests are very MMO-y and forgettable in their nature and you'll be lucky if they're initiated by speech and not by a letter from your home base or some board around town. There's also some that just "pop up" after you kill a certain group of enemies or when you pick up/inspect items in the environment that don't have any kind of dialogue and have you return say a finger bone of a corpse to its owner in the city, after which he usually replies something intelligent like "Oh thank you, never thought I'd see this again." and hands you a few silver or even gold coins for your troubles. Along the way you're also compelled to expand your plant and rock collection so you can order the newest shiny things from the latest catalogue copy of "adventuring daily" at home.

Almost altogether gone though are the short "atmospheric" quests of DA:O or previous Bioware games about the little dwarven girl that wants to be a mage, the waitress that dreams about owning her own establishment, skill/class-specific quests like healing a wounded animal or pick-pocketing/stealing from people have also been rationalized away, same with stealth-based missions and puzzles that were still prevalent in DA:O. Everything seems trimmed for efficiency, random NPCs not in any way belonging to the main plot don't have a story to tell other than one line anecdotes, they don't tell you anything about themselves and more importantly everything seems to end with Hawke bashing someone or something's head in.

The pacing of the story suffers immensely, because the entire first Act is basically comprised of exactly these type of quests. You sometimes get the feeling you're in an MMO (and it's sad that even some of those started having more engaging and memorable NPCs and quests than a Bioware game)... alone and have to grind money to get your first mount or something. Arkham Asylum this is not...

Speaking of combat, it doesn't seem inherently broken, some things like animations and the ability trees (which were kind of a catastrophe in DA:O) have been improved upon although can be a little confusing starting the game and being able to choose from about 7-8 trees at once without knowing which is good, but certain parts of it make it very unsatisfying.
For instance the wave mechanic, which breaks any kind of tactical pretense the game might give you. There's no planning ahead or positioning possible when you don't know how many waves, what kind of enemies and especially from where they're going to come. They often just appear mid air and drop down on you all around you. They also seem to love spawning directly onto your mages and taking them out on higher difficulties. Some of the groups that you'll have to fight approx. every 20 meters in a combat area you can actually see in front of you, others again "drop in" a few different ways out of nowhere akin to JRPGs and they also have Level-scaling (at least once they're cleared, they're gone till the next Act)

Posted Image
Enemies appearing mid-air


Playing on Hard for the most part of the game - which is kind of similar to Normal in DA:O (till the end of Act2 to be more exact where a ridiculous fight took about 30 minutes of Benny Hill-style kiting and I decided that I just want to get it and the game over with) was somewhat challenging during the boss fights, you had to plan somewhat and tell some of your characters what to do or reposition them. I also regularly used the Tactics screen to change the behavior of my companions somewhat because it wasn't really entirely possible to keep an overview over the battlefield with the narrow camera and only took control of them when I absolutely had to. In DA:O I'd usually start a fight by getting into position, Pausing and zooming as far out as I could to plan my moves. Regrettably that isn't possible at all in DA2 where I always start a fight by rushing right in and mainly pressing 1-2-3-4 whenever the cooldowns are down and the situation requires it. "Cheesy" tactics also generally seem to work on a lot of bosses including dragons, where you just run around them while everyone else is killing them or just running away through a corridor when you know there's going to be a lot of waves spawning and they either follow you so you can kill them easier around a corner or they sometimes spawn and stay in the room till you come and get them separately. Most of those tactics unfortunately often seem to work better than most actual in-game tactics. The game also seemed to require a certain group composition at times to be effective (inspired by MMOs with the "Holy Trinity" between Tank, DPS and Healer/Support with an "Aggro" mechanic and skill cooldowns) which I don't particularly WANT in an SRPG but whatever. On Normal afterwards, during Act3 it was pretty much a Cakewalk... click enemy, enemy explodes in a comic manner and fills both your screen and floor with ridiculous red goo, move on. I don't think I had to reload a single time and the class system also has an ancillary role.

I also find it debatable if adding both Health and Stamina/Mana shouldn't be done via each Level up instead of having to spend separate points into constitution yourself. Unpredictably appearing enemies can slaughter your squishy party members without enough health, and to make matters worse there are a lot of "Sustained" Modes that decrease your Stamina or Mana pool by very high percentages, sometimes up to 40-50% or more if stacked so I usually kept those kind of abilities to a minimum unless required for say Healing or the likes, otherwise there wouldn't be enough for more than a few attacks.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image
For this the cool finisher moves of the first game had to go?


Another reason why the combat seems unfulfilling overall (especially in the higher difficulties) is that the normal enemies just seem to gain more HP and damage resistance while most of them don't seem to pose much more of a tactical threat (unless they spawn right into your squishies...) and you'll fight the very same group composition of baddies, most of them also looking the very same or similar over and over. The higher the difficulty, the longer it takes to dispose of them (double or triple the time, not just slightly longer), it usually seemed more tedious than challenging. A perceived difficulty induced just by larger health bars and respawning enemy waves never feels as rewarding as it does frustrating and cheap. Pause, outside of Boss fights didn't seem to be a very required feature on either mode, I generally used it to target a specific enemy cause the camera didn't seem to allow that when they were right in your face and jumping or running around.

The lack of a proper overview is probably also the main reason why friendly fire is only available on Nightmare, I can't really imagine having it on while I can barely see a few steps around me and can hardly control my party members effectively in battles aside of using the Tactics menu...
I guess it's one of those reasons all those RTS games use that weird isometric perspective instead of a 3rd person over the shoulder camera.
Oh yeah, and all the fun and different spell combos you were able to do in DA:O... they got replaced by a "if the enemy has a glowing symbol above his head use a certain skill" system.

The game's UI is another step back, while the first Dragon Age had a respectable book layout that could be navigated easily with the mouse, DA2 has a nondescript "menu" for a lack of a better word with big letters more compatible with a TV on which you have to scroll through and click "Back" a lot to get to wherever you wanted to be. They've also streamlined the inventory and instead of separate -hand-drawn icons and item names you've got different symbols like a shield or a sword, the items (almost all of them) are also redundantly labeled as such. You'll find a lot of amulets labeled "amulet", a lot of rings labeled "ring" and a lot of shields labeled "shield" (gee, thanks game, I thought that shield-shaped thing might've been a space hamster). There's also a Junk tab for items that are mainly vendor trash now. Why it is there and why they didn't just include more coins in the barrels and chests all around the world I don't really know, probably because they might have seemed too empty without.

Posted Image Posted Image
DA:O and DA2 UI


Part of the UI is the Dialogue wheel that, unlike Mass Effect 1/2 (in which I really do not want to miss it or the voiced character) I had a problem with in Dragon Age 2 (especially considering DA:O). While it's nice that the main character is voiced now, about every conversation piece had mainly 3 options "diplomatic", "jerk" and "aggressive". Clicking on any one of them usually leads to very similar results, if there's any difference in the outcome it's the "Friendship" or "Rivalry" points you get out of it. More often than not there is the illusion of choice where there barely is one... Want to kill a certain apostate during a certain quest? You can't. Want to hand her over to the templars? She'll come back later and hate you for it. Want to let her go? She'll come back later in the same scene and hate you for it in both cases turns to blood magic.

Posted Image

There's also the problem of having to interpret the short summary of what you're about to say on the screen and your character saying something completely different, idiotic, insensitive or contrary to what you thought the outcome would be or you intended saying. In DA:O you could at least read all the options (there were a lot more) and weigh them. There was always one that was good enough or close enough.

Not only that, but the "other" options popping up once in a while seem to have been made completely idiot-proof. There's even a symbol for every time a dialogue choice will start a fight so you don't have to burden yourself with the thought process of considering if insulting the Qunari standing in front of you may be the best course of action to take. There's also a heart or broken heart for any Romance option etc., I guess it helps making things clearer in an otherwise broken conversation system where you can't decrypt the meaning of the summary without it though.

The companions on the other hand were the strong point of the game for me, while there might have been cases where I was more sympathetic towards other characters in earlier Bioware games or ended up liking them a lot more, every Companion in Dragon Age 2 has his own personal home base and contrary to Kirkwall and the outside world they do advance and change somewhat throughout the game. They seem to have their "own life" outside of your adventures and aren't portrayed as extras waiting somewhere for you to return and show a little mercy by taking them with you. They integrate within Kirkwall and most of them have their roles to play, not only in their Companion quests but also in the overall plot. Chances are you'll get attached to some of them and start hating others and you'll want to follow through to see how their life develops. There's also the possibility to call upon your companions during certain conversations, if you do that they take over for you and add their "personal touch". The amount of party banter has also been increased and it changes as time passes by. Even their relationships seem to evolve and when you go to visit one of them, more often than not a familiar face is already there. Unfortunately aside of the few times you are supposed to talk to them by quest Bioware has eliminated the possibility to converse and get to know them/get to know the backgrounds of their stories altogether.

From the gameplay mechanics side of things there are also a few changes that went awry, for one you can't equip any armor on your companions anymore, it's just one slot that is "upgradeable" and there are very few new "skins" that may be updated as the game progresses for 2 or 3 companions depending on your choices. This was obviously done to save time on character-based armor redesign. All slots that don't offer any visual cues are still there. If you do that... why not give every character at least 1-2 alternate outfits similar to Mass Effect at least? Even for your own character, apart from the 3 sets and 1 or 2 unique armor models everything I put on looked the same, from helmets to gauntlets to the main plate with just the hue changed slightly. Only ever found 4 or 5 different helmet designs for instance with my warrior. (3 of them being from armor sets)

Not only that, but your companions are basically restricted to a single main way of playing them. They only have one certain main weapon tree like "Archery", "Shield and Sword", "Dual Wield" or "Two Handed" and are further restricted by their specialization tree, which is only useful for a certain way of playing them. Mage characters are limited by not being able to choose the healing tree and a few support trees, there's no real customization possible and if you play on the harder difficulties you'll have to take companions with you that fill a certain role even if you don't like them.

I thought the way the "Lore" system was implemented into the game was an improvement though. In DA:O new entries usually just went into your Journal for you to forget about or be overwhelmed by and give up on later, whenever I clicked on an item that would add to the Codex in DA2 though it opened a small window and I was able to read through the story. Spreading it out more and making the Codex entries more specific to the places you picked them up at would improve it even more. Generally I also spent a lot more time with the Codex in this game (and read every entry) whenever I started being too bored by the game itself. It was one of the more interesting parts in combination with this map and a basic understanding of their calendary system e.g. "9:30 Dragon" means 930 A.D., 930 years after the events around Andraste and when the chantry was first founded. Every 100 years the chantry gives the next century a certain name, which in this case is "Dragon".
Unfortunately a lot of entries seem to be directly copy/pasted from DA:O, there's even some referring to "Here, in Denerim, the elves even have their own quarter".

From a technical standpoint the game exhibits a very bad/unplayable performance in DirectX11 on any NVIDIA cards at the moment and there's no Patch out, the latest Beta Driver helps somewhat but it is still near unplayable even with top of the line cards in SLI mode while it seems to work with most ATI cards, so while games like Crysis and Metro 2033 work on those machines at max. Settings and look amazing, Dragon Age 2 does not and does not so I played it using the "High" Setting only. I also had the game freeze on me around 10-15 times throughout the playthrough , luckily I Quicksave often.
There were also a few broken quests that wouldn't start or complete (I think 2-3) and Gamma goes from 0 to 1 in the Video Options Menu with 1 being Standard and much too dark in certain situations having to manually edit the DragonAge.ini, what's up with that?

Some more minor annoyances
  • The bodies of dead enemies disappear into the ground just a few seconds after they've been slain... which isn't exactly contributing much to realism or suspension of disbelief.
  • There's no "camp site", where you can equip/un-equip your party with items. Instead you have to rotate through them to do that (curious because DA:O had that exact same feature and it was much appreciated)
  • Unlike Dragon Age: Origins, the same-sex part of the game is a lot more "in your face", the two male romances literally jump on you the moment you talk to them first and if you "discourage" them to do so you get Rivalry points. Every single time you speak to Fenris, romantic music starts playing in the background which kind of... doesn't exactly fit to his general overall characterization and the bordello has an unusual 2:1 male-to-female ratio with a hidden transvestite to boot.
  • It's a really minor thing, but I always loved the effects of enchanted weapons in a lot of games e.g. Diablo 2, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights or even Dragon Age: Origins... if you enchanted a weapon with fire/ice/lightning it had an effect around it, in DA2 it doesn't have any effect.

Despite all of its faults and blemishes it is not a total disaster or necessarily a bad game like some people make it out to be and in parts even shows promise that it can have a stronger story and narrative than DA:O, if you have the ability to wear blinders towards all of its shortcomings and focus mostly on the characters and dialogue of the main storyline you might actually end up enjoying it...
Other than that, it isn't really on par with customary Bioware quality standards one has come to expect, really Bioware?

Posted Image Posted Image


Modifié par Dexter111, 21 mars 2011 - 01:23 .


#974
T-0pel

T-0pel
  • Members
  • 306 messages
Absolutely agree with Dexter111, especially about the grapihcs part.

#975
Xaenn

Xaenn
  • Members
  • 174 messages
You thought DA:O abilities were a catastrophe? Hmm. Personally they were setup better (for my tastes) DA:2s abilities were actually well setup, just thought DA:Os were a lot better (set up and just more of them). Rather have 30 abilities to choose from personally then 12 sustained and 12 passive with 6 abilities I can use.

But damn, nice post, very nice. If only every post including my own went into the detail you did here!

Modifié par Xaenn, 21 mars 2011 - 01:58 .