Aller au contenu

Photo

Constructive Criticism


2797 réponses à ce sujet

#1126
Lumikki

Lumikki
  • Members
  • 4 239 messages
I have now played little more about DA2 and I would like to comment few things.

1. Linearity

While I agree that game is very linear, like someone sayed more adventure game like interactive movie. I have to say, Kotor, DAO, ME1 and ME2 all have exactly same linearity. It's the way Bioware does the games. Now, I don't find linearity in story perspective as problem, but from role-playing perspective, player needs more choises what matters. After playing DA2, I did not notice it to be any more linear than other games so far. There where choises what did matter in side quest too. Meaning they have different ending based you choises. So, while I agree that DA2 is linear, I disagree that it's any more linear than other Bioware games. So, it's bad excuse.

2. classes in combat

I haven't actually made all classes yet, because I don't really like playing melee classes. How ever, I can jump in npc classes and play them and look how they work. In my opinion all classes doesn't work well, because the boss enemy design and long healing cool down. Let me explain.

Normal and elite enemies and all classes works fine here, I think melee rogues is little slow here, because lack of AoE attacts, but in elites they are pretty good. There is no problem in any class with these enemies.

Boss enemies. Here is where the class difference shows well. Problem is that fight will las long time no matter what. This also means if character does melee attacks alot, it will be close to the boss enemy alot. This means also that all melee classes suffer here because limited healing, if they defence isn't good enough.

Only tank has good enough defence in melee range. Meaning it can survive long time in melee range. Rogues and Two hand warriors are just useless here. Tank and 3 range attacker can do bosses alot easyer and alot less healing is needed.

Now if player playes the class, it's okey most the time, but as npc melee rogues and two handed warriors are 100% useless in boss fights, they require too much healing what other classes doesn't need.

3. Items, loot and customation

Now many people have sayed that because there isn't enough loot, customation and items, it doesn't feel like RPG anymore. I don't know, I have played RPG's for decades and let me tell something. Customation and choises are needed in RPG's. How ever, look example DA2 where you main character collect armors, while companions doesn't need them. Why?

Because companions armors scale up with levels you go up. As for player character, you need to find or buy better armor and do exactly same but manually replasing armor parts. If you don't do it, you will feel like you character is gimped. So, does the game do it automaticly or does the player do it manually. What's the difference, it's exactly same end result.

I can understand why some player wants to do this manually and while some others doesn't care so much about this. Why? Because it provides player to something to do as goal. How ever, player like me who has done this decades in rpg games, it feel like some useless waste of time what in the end doesn't matter. People who likes it are still illusion that it actually matters. Level based games just scale the armors and weapons out, because gameplay balance between player and npc enemies is needed. It's pure illusion of progress what doesn't even happen. Real progress happens how player is getting new action to make, they are skills and talens what makes it possible, not items.

How ever, customation point the items still stands. Example how you character and companions looks and what kind of effects they weapons and armors can have. Like adding armor more fire resistant or something else. Allow player to customize they characters looks and gear.

4. Character attributes and armors

Now DA2 had two attribute restriction in armors based levels. This was for player character armors, as companion armors could not be changed. Now this creates problem. Because armors has two attribute limits and those limits are allways equal. Like restriction of 17 str and 17 con. This means player is basicly forced to raise those two attributes, so that player character can wear the best armors they can, what is required as gameplay. This creates problem.

I mean if player is forced to do it, because without it player will gimp they character progression what they are forced to do manually. This means that player has no real choises what attributes put points. Basicly it's pre-defined. This means that hole attribute system becomes waste of time in player character, because why to do manually someting where player has no real other choises. Point is, why have attrbute system at all, if player has no real freedom to use it to customize gameplay, because only choise now is gimp you character.

One notice about attributes. Why does my mage with 10 str and 30 magic do so much damage in melee compared range attack with staff spell? I mean what's the point of have low str if I feel like melee character in robes. You know I had ones better armor/defence rating than my tank companion and I was wearing robe. Point is mages should be weak by defence and they melee attacks, if attributes say so. So, why aren't they?


Now my point of all this is. Having choises can create diversity for player, but sometimes having more choises isn't diversity, just illusion of it. To really have choise, the choise has to have meaning to player gameplay or visuality. Not just choise what is forced to player by restrictions or game eliminate the meaning of choise away by game design.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 mars 2011 - 03:14 .


#1127
Sidac

Sidac
  • Members
  • 1 433 messages
Re-used maps

Got old but understandable considering you were in 1 city for 7 years.

Enemy encounters

I will agree with most others, the paradrops were kind of akward.


Enemy deaths

Exploding enemies got old after 10 min
.
Armor

NEED MORE EVERYTHING! ADD Mage armor please! Champion robes were a start. Im a fan of the class now but I cant stand going into battle wearing a wedding dress. 


 Weather

I agree with the OP, dynamic weather is a must in games. Would be nice to see it storm in the game and have the NPCs complain about it.


ps. dont know why that part wont unbold.

#1128
thebatmanreborn

thebatmanreborn
  • Members
  • 400 messages

Sidac wrote...

Re-used maps

Got old but understandable considering you were in 1 city for 7 years.

Enemy encounters

I will agree with most others, the paradrops were kind of akward.


Enemy deaths

Exploding enemies got old after 10 min
.
Armor

NEED MORE EVERYTHING! ADD Mage armor please! Champion robes were a start. Im a fan of the class now but I cant stand going into battle wearing a wedding dress. 


 Weather

I agree with the OP, dynamic weather is a must in games. Would be nice to see it storm in the game and have the NPCs complain about it.


ps. dont know why that part wont unbold.


I agree with the weather effects.  A night and day cycle with a weather system would be awesome.  Especially if the rain created a muddy ground that affected the speed of movement in combat.  Or high wind caused an issue with accuracy.  Where as a hot, humid day causes stamania to drain.  And NPC's comment on the weather.  This goes back to immersion and attention to the details.

#1129
Moirnelithe

Moirnelithe
  • Members
  • 395 messages

Lumikki wrote...

I have now played little more about DA2 and I would like to comment few things.

1. Linearity

While I agree that game is very linear, like someone sayed more adventure game like interactive movie. I have to say, Kotor, DAO, ME1 and ME2 all have exactly same linearity. It's the way Bioware does the games. Now, I don't find linearity in story perspective as problem, but from role-playing perspective, player needs more choises what matters. After playing DA2, I did not notice it to be any more linear than other games so far. There where choises what did matter in side quest too. Meaning they have different ending based you choises. So, while I agree that DA2 is linear, I disagree that it's any more linear than other Bioware games. So, it's bad excuse.


Wait until you've seen the end of part 3, then you'll understand the linearity part :(

#1130
Lumikki

Lumikki
  • Members
  • 4 239 messages

Evainelithe wrote...

Wait until you've seen the end of part 3, then you'll understand the linearity part :(

Yeah, I wait motivation to get pass that " Year seven" idiotic choise. I will play it soon, but still I have played multible character to act 2, just to test the gameplay differences as trying to play different kind of character. How ever, I have noticed that some quest situations does change when you choose differently. Example quest "Act of Mercy" has at least 3 different ending. I would say  that developers did try to give us different paths and meaning for choises. Like the "Year one" stuff. Just because main story is linear, it has been that in all they games. Meaning if you do something different, you still need to come back to main story path.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 mars 2011 - 03:29 .


#1131
thul

thul
  • Members
  • 46 messages
I'm still mid-Act 3, so I'm still hopeful there will be some improvements in the story (trying not to read any spoilers). It's kind of sad that I'm essentially toiling away hoping that the story will pick-up eventually, though.

Regardless, thus far I certainly have to echo some of the sentiments expressed here. Other than the combat (which I find to be an improvement in excitement and tactical depth), the level design has been horrible and the quests and overall story are generally uninspired and even recycled. Heck, all of Act 1 essentially boils down to earning 50 gold. Yeah....

In Origins there were epic cut scenes as armies clashed. There was a sense of urgency as towns burned behind you and the Darkspawn horde moved across the map. Your decisions changed the landscape of entire races (I still remember sitting back thinking, "holy crap...did I really just wipe out an entire settlement with Werewolves!?)

There's none of that here. Other than some text telling me how my decisions impacted things, there is little showing me (at least thus far). Isn't that one of the cardinal rules of story telling?

Other than (hopefully) a better story and quest/level design, I do have one perhaps far-fetched wish list item for DA3. You have the ability to import our Hero from Origins and our Champion for DA2. Letting us control one or both as party members would be awesome. Letting us romance one even more so. It'd be pretty cool controlling my Hero again, hunting down Morrigan with the Champion of Kirkwall at my side as both party member and new love interest.

#1132
Guvanata

Guvanata
  • Members
  • 5 messages
Positives:

1. Combat animations - especially rogue and mage MELEE attacks are awesome. Also, the speed of the combat makes it so that you actually have to pause a LOT more than in origins. I just went back and played origins and balked at how bad the combat was in origins compared to dragon age 2. The warrior animations in dragon age 2 however could use some more variety like the way they did the rogue autoattack animations that were awesome.

2. Amount of character interaction and sidequests/stories with companions - made it seem much more realistic - some stories were a little better than Dragon Age.

3. Voice protagonist - excellent immersion. I also loved how our dialogue choices affected what the character says when he/she is clicked on.

Negatives:

1. Level design - specifically the fact that maps are re-used over and over again - I counted 6-7 of the same maps re-used probably 8-10 times each or maybe more. I think a little variation would be good, as it becomes extremely boring after a while going through the same levels over and over again. After one playthrough I am not so inclined to play through Dragon age 2 again.

2. Choices - there should be both more choices that affect the story/environment as well as more dialogue choices - perhaps add another dialogue "personality" option instead o just having "saintly" "comedic" and "gruff/confrontational."

3. Story - I have mixed feelings about this: Act 1 and 2 were pretty good and the companion stories were intriguing. Act 3 seemed a little too simplistic and the outcome was completely dissatisfying. The way they left things off seemed almost like a marketing strategy to get people to buy Dragon Age 3. I believe that the talents of the studio should not be aimed towards "how much money can we make" but more towards "how good of as story can we tell - with many different endings as well as ways conflict/rising actions can go about."

#1133
quickthorn

quickthorn
  • Members
  • 303 messages
I liked the game but it's fair to say that several aspects have a rushed feel. It wasn't that I didn't enjoy it as I'm now on my second playthrough, but it still feels like there's a lot of missed potential and that's a real shame.

Pros

*Graphics generally looked better with a few exceptions
*Cutscenes were nicely handled on the whole.
*Facial animations were much improved
*Companion quests were appropriate to the characters and while a couple were amusing, some of them packed an emotional punch. Special mention goes to Varric's Act 2 quest for doing both at the beginning and end.
*Characters were mostly interesting
*Good inter-party banters
*VA was generally good with fewer wooden-sounding intereractions than in DA:O.
*Combat speed was fine.
*It was good to see the sun shine, oddly. It's such an overused convention in games that when bad things happen, landscapes must be grey or barren to match. The prologue was the one glaring exception.
*Act 2 felt like the best part of the game in its pacing and dramatic conclusion.

Cons

*The most obvious exception to the improved graphics was poor hair textures.
*Too many recycled dungeon/cave areas.
*Untrimmed maps for the above. This was one of my biggest peeves because it led me to waste time double-checking dead ends/closed doors.
*Character interaction feels too constrained. I would have liked to interact more casually in my own time. The character home bases felt pointless when you generally needed a quest before you could actually talk with them.
*I missed giving my companions all the armour that I couldn't use myself.
*Small touches like more names for rings/belts/amulets would have made the game look less rushed.
*Kirkwall looked pretty but felt too lifeless.
*Too many character/appearance/accent/personality changes. I'd rather see fresh characters if old ones are going to come over as completely different people.
*Restricted companion abilities. I felt forced to take along Anders in some situations when I would have rather given Merrill spirit healing.
*The number of forced plot deaths started to feel melodramatic and hence lost some of the impact.
*Friendship/rivalry was an interesting experiment but I metagamed even more than with DAO. I either chose sides earlier than I wanted or else had to keep swapping party members to avoid taking them on certain quests. I don't want to check walkthroughs just to avoid having too many characters bailing out on me before the end.

#1134
BubbleDncr

BubbleDncr
  • Members
  • 2 209 messages
Things I liked:

Updated graphics were pretty. I honestly didn't mind the reuse of environments.
Voice over - I liked it more than I thought I would, tho there were still moments where even with the icons, Hawke said something that wasn't quite what I intended.
Updated combat - overall, was more fun and interesting.
Auto-sorting junk
the wider varieties of junk.
Not having to worry about getting all my companions the best gear possible.
Not having to carry around crafting supplies.
The companions were all awesome.
I liked how the companions can interact in dialog. I honestly feel the replayability out of this game for me, is the companion interactions.
The relationships felt more real to me than they did in Origins, but I missed being able to talk to them when I wanted to. I could only talk to them when THEY wanted to. But having a little quest pop up to tell me they wanted to talk was good - kept me from feeling like I was gonna miss anything.
I loved the updated battle animations. Being a mage truly felt epic (tempest!)
I kind of liked how the whole first act, I was just doing quests, and felt like I wasn't making an decisions of importance. But then in Act 2, someone would show up and I'd be, "who are you?" and they'd say "I'm the guy you saved!" and there would be some reaction to it. Made it feel more realistic, like a butterfly effect. But I've heard that things basically happen the same no matter what you do - I've only done one play through so far, and I imagine that if this is true, future playthroughs wont be as interesting as origins.

Things I didn't like:

UI updates - even after playing the game for 45 hours, I still was trying to get to my inventory through the radial menu.
Changes the the leveling up system - I don't like how you now need 2 attributes to fulfill armor constraints. Made making my blood mage a sad experience, cos I wanted to up my constitution, but needed a high willpower to wear good armor.
**No more Coercion*** - I really liked being able to persuade/intimidate people. I think this is what I missed the most - not always solving everything through fighting. I feel like even if you got rid of the coercion skill, you could still persuade/intimidate people based off your strength/cunning.
Not being able to kiss my LI on demand.
The opening felt too quick. I had really been looking forward to maybe wandering around Lothering for like, 10 minutes, and then having the darkspawn attack, and it being crazy escape time. It felt now like I was thrown in the middle of the action, had no idea what was going on, and it was over before I knew it.
The only thing about the reused envrionments that bugged me was when the maps were all the same - I kept running around to check if I went everywhere.
I played a little bit of the beginning as a rogue, and I wanted to hate mages, but I found that most of my dialog options towards Bethany can't be outwardly mean to her. I felt like a lot of the time, the 3 dialog options were just three ways of saying the same thing, and not so much giving you a choice to react differently than the predetermined.
I was confused for a lot of Act 3. I had no idea why Trask and grace thought I was working for Meredith, when Orsino asked me to look into them. I also had no idea why Grace hated me. It seemed like it was just forced that you had to fight these people no matter what.
I really liked Orsino up until he went Harvester on me. It made no sense. We were basically winning the battle - those templar were easy pickings. I think the ending would have been stronger if who you sided with determined who your final boss was, rather than just having both sides go crazy and fight you, even tho you sided with them.

#1135
Siven80

Siven80
  • Members
  • 1 505 messages
Little history first.

30 years old and  started PC gaming in 98, played a variety of genres from FPS, Strategy, RPGs, MMOs and adventure games. I consider myself a gamer and dont limit myself.

I never played any Baldurs gate game or similar so the term crpg means nothing to me. When i heard about DAO i liked the look and sound of it, that why i bought it rather it being a successor to the BG series.

While i did really enjoy DAO it was by no means perfect. So i was keen to see what changs would be made for DA2.

PC Version

Main Character


Having a voiced protagonist really helped me in being immersed into the game. There were many times in DAO when i'd zone out during dialogues because i wouldnt hear my character talk, so this change was very welcome for me and i loved the different tones.

Character creation is still in and still great.

I didnt really miss the option to be another race as i prefered being human anyway.
Story

After DAO i loved the world world of Thedas and the lore behind it and was hoping for more of the same from DA2 and thats what we got.

The whole Chantry/Templar/Circle conflict is fascinating in that none of them on the surface seem evil or wrong, yet they all have problems and issues. Its a very political story and reminded me a lot of the Witcher game which i also enjoyed.

A problem i did  have during the game though was that there was too many sidequests and not enough main plot quests. The way it was set out i felt that many sidequests helped flesh the story out and really should have been in the main quest lines.

I preferred the quest hub areas from DAO honestly.

I liked the ending and the extra part after the conclusion to the champions story....cant really embelish on that due to spoilers...but i enjoyed it. It was different to most game stories around.

Level design/Areas

Setting the game in one city wasnt as bad as i imaganed. Though i would have liked more variety.

The re-used areas and maps did indeed get tiresome. Reality of a rushed game by EA? Probably as Origins took a long time and no doubt a lot of money.

Conversation/Tone Wheel

Personally i liked it. Especially the tone indicators. When playing DAO i generally knew what how each line was intended to sound by listening to how the npcs answered it, but  sometimes it did catch me out.  The Tone wheel helped a lot with that and theres just as many respones available as i found in DAO around the wheel rather than in a line.

Paraphrasing doesnt bother me so that helped me in liking the wheel dynamic.

Companions

Slightly dissapointed there wasnt more chance to talk to them, but not a huge issue for me as in DAO I generally got the chat out of the way ASAP anyway after the first couple of playthroughs.

Friendship/Rivalry i think is a big improvement from DAO. While not perfect i did prefer it to just agreeing with my companions in DAO so they wouldnt leave.

Now i may not agree with some companions but i can still be friends of sorts with them which imo is great.

I think the romances worked fine overall, though at times it didnt seem like i was actually romancing them. Maybe its just a time issue. The sex scenes were imo better than DAO, though i still prefer the sexy sideshot style ME1 had to anything.

I also loved that each character got a unique look and abilities. More on that below.

User Interface/HUD

First of all the main menu. Having the DLC items in a seperate menu to the DLC content was i felt, a strange decision and i think it would have been betterto have all the DLC content in the same area with tabs like it was in DAO.

The ingame UI while functional was bland. DAOs UI had style with the golden borders on things and light background with dark text.

DA2 seemed to reverse everything and imo became too bland. And large.

Every screen seems to have many large elements to it also...and lots of blank space. Things like resistances on another page entirely to your actualy stats was wierd when you could easily move things around in all that empty space there was.

The tactics screen had Huge selection boxes compared to DAO where you could have many more tactics actually showing rather than having to scroll down a lot to see past the first 8 or so. And again the dark background and light text......DAO was better in having the light background with darker border and dark text.

I did like the variable length HP and resource bars, thats a huge improvement on the hard to see circular bars DAO had.

Also REALLY missed the quick weapon set toggle and ability to equip a seond weapon set.

I also severely missed the coloured enemy names. White, Yellow, Orange, Red for difficulty. Yes their HP bars were different length, but most of the time i find it easier to look for coloured names denoting enemy difficulty and rank.

In general though, the actualy bars and action bar at the bottom were as good as always, its just the actual menus etc being large, dark and bland which put me off slightly.

Shop interface was an improvement in not having to listen to the vendor talk before i saw the goods.

BUT whats with having no ALL tab, same as my inventory too.

Inventory/Equipment

The inventory functions just fine, though why isnt there an ALL tab?
Junk though...sigh why? What is the point of picking up junk that sells for a few copper when you could just give us the money instead. Loot just for the sake of having loot is unnecessary imo.

Accessories: hmm generic loot called Ring that does something different to generic loot Ring is just odd. Atleast have some Prefixes or suffixes like how Diablo does it.  Ring of the tiger/Stately ring of the tiger etc.

Armor: Now i love that companions have their own unique look. But if you do that and dont allow them to equip any of the many armor drops then atleast do something to address the issue of all the lovely loot dropping being useless.

Being able to break down the armor to make upgrades to their armor or something like that would be great.

OR allow them to wear gloves and boots, but still keep their unique appearance.  Just something to use all the lovely loot that drops but keep the great unique looks they have.

Also would love to see the upgrades add something to their unqiue armor , like a chaimail sleeve or shoulder pad would be fantastic.

The lack of an area where we can change companion gear, level them up and select abilities is a huge miss.

Ability trees and Skills

Love them

Much better than the linear DAO choices while combining all the very similar spells and abilities. The upgrades are a fantastic idea.

Especially love that each companion has a unique tree to make them different than just warrior companion number 1 for example.

But i not keen that some trees have been removed from certain companions like the creation tree from Merrill, as i like all my mages to be able to heal and idont like Anders.

While i like the new potions being 30 mins duration, new bombs and the better and easier to make runes, i do miss being able to make them myself from character skills.

Combat


I generally like the new combat speed, but it may just be a little too fast sometimes.

Its far more responsive which is a great thing and no more slow shuffling is awesome!
But sometimes the animations did slow me down as they kept you from actually moving until the animation was finished.

I think a happy medium between DAO and DA2 combat speed would overall be a good thing...and again with no shuffling.

Waves of enemies. Well it would be fine on some encounters but not EVERY battle. Seriously its gets so tedious and boring when you know waves are reinforcements are going to come in every battle.

Boss battle are great. Some actually require you to be aware and move which is a bif improvemnt over DAO. Though the Arishok Duel is tedious.

Cross class combos are imo much more fun than the DAO combos. Though i do think they could be a little less limited.

Camera

While i didnt use the topdown camera much in DAO i did have the camera at max range before it changed to top down view so i had a good view of the battlefield while still having imo a good 3d view.

So i dont really miss the topdown camera on the PC....But i really do wish the camera could be zoomed out more and possibly be detached when paused and holding a key down. Several time while fighting in tight areas and in a doorway i wanted to move my companions but couldnt get a good angle or click the area i wanted to because of the camera.

-

All in all i did like the game and it gave off a very Witcher feel with the more political storyline, main character, main story set in around a city.

If it wasnt rushed by EA and given another year or so it could have been great, but due to that it unfortunately has too many issues to be great.

For me its an 80% game. Not bad, but not great. And im happy they tried something different than just making Origins 2. It just needed more time.

Modifié par Siven80, 22 mars 2011 - 10:46 .


#1136
neeeiiil

neeeiiil
  • Members
  • 6 messages
there are many things i like and dislike in the game, Here are two that i found particularly annoying.


The bugs in the game, I like a challenge I'm playing on nightmare as a mage and i chose the spirit healer speciality, but now all the challenge has evaporated as whenever I revive my companions they become practically un-killable due to a bug. I'd rather a game was delayed than rushed out with major gameplay altering bugs in it. I do not want a faulty product.

Secondly, day one DLC seems like a low money grabbing trick. i bought the game new and resent being charged again to get the full game, for content that could have been and should have been on the disk.
I don't mind buying add-ons for my favourite games that expanded the story and experience months after release and am looking forward to the upcoming mass effect 2 DLC but do not take me for a fool, it leaves a very sour taste indeed.

Modifié par neeeiiil, 22 mars 2011 - 06:36 .


#1137
Furtled

Furtled
  • Members
  • 426 messages
On the warrior build
Two handed is insane levels of fun, possibly a little OTT (the sword sizes are a smidge ridiculous at times) but fun all the same, I do miss the option of being a duel wielding warrior though, not sure why that was removed. And the lack of auto-attack can be a nightmare (no pun intended) in heavier fights. Sword and board and two hander could do with a couple more attacks because both result in a lot of pushing r repeatedly waiting for cooldowns during heavy fighting. No shuffling sighted though so that bit worked ;)

Threat management
With the companion armour options gone (and nothing in the trinkets/belts to reduce/increase threat) and rogues having more useful threat generating abilities than warriors (??) managing threat is tricky as hell now, especially with the 'waves' of enemies dropping into unexpected places behind my defensive lines etc. This seems to tie in with the stripping away of more strategic combat, also having two switchable weapons sets was sorely missed in some battles as my warrior just stood there unable to pull out a bow and do some damage.

Being forced to do things in obvious (and not so obvious) ways
I love the companions special talent trees but cropping the builds forces a certain healer character on you under certain circumstances if you're not playing healer yourself.

Main plot quests are more obviously forced, despite saying no outright because a quest was either against my PCs core beliefs (as set-up in the game) or something they just wouldn't do, the quest still goes into the log and needs to be done. There's three very specific quests I'm referring to here (but won't mention due to spoiler possibilities) that did this and broke me right out of the game because it removed any illusion of control.

With a little more care the quests could still have been added to the log after being turned down through random encounters, comments from companions or some other alternative path that justified them. I know you guys are good enough game makers to pull this kind of thing off which is probably why I was so annoyed when it happened the way it did.

Plot
Overall I loved the plot and story structure, it's nuanced and complicated in a way that forces you to think. Act 2 is an absolute corker (constant frustration at not being able to talk to Elthina about a certain someone aside), however it is very difficult to justify going dark side at the end of Act 3 given the hints, actions and rumours of the big bad. In the final confrontation (before the big choice is made), their decision is almost pantomime villain level because their planned action is so extreme and isn't fully justified by the events you play through beforehand. You did such a good job of humanising that group (more so when doing a pro them run) but the actions of the big bad make that job a bit pointless.

When the plot device was used before in Origins there was an obvious and immediate need for something so drastic, that's not the case here and only really leaves you the choice of possibly dodgy or utterly mad and bent on destruction.
That sense of urgency is also a bit lacking in the actions of the 'good guys' boss because it happens at a point when seemingly you've won, a cut scene might have helped there, some banging on the door or similar.

Also the 'good guys' involvement in other matters is too subtle in places to rob them of sympathy, even with the hints on perspectives dropped by other characters during the story and that one note you find. This might have been helped by adding something to seed doubt after various quests earlier on, as is it's very easy to write them off as rogue elements.

Some positives
The characters looked great, not quite sure what happened to Alistair's face - I'll put it down to the booze. On a happier note after a few playthroughs now I've gotten more attached to the companions via the party banter, sadly it just doesn't trigger enough to make up for the lack of interaction on a first playthrough though. Oh and yay! for mage robes that don't scream 'I'm a mage!!' in glorious technicolour - having an apostate running around in leather armor made much more sense visually.

Modifié par Furtled, 11 mai 2011 - 11:01 .


#1138
Guest_PurebredCorn_*

Guest_PurebredCorn_*
  • Guests
This isn't really a criticism, but I think the armor and mage robes in this game are the best Bioware has come out with. They are amazing.

#1139
Furtled

Furtled
  • Members
  • 426 messages
double post - sorry!

Modifié par Furtled, 22 mars 2011 - 07:00 .


#1140
Hoogies123

Hoogies123
  • Members
  • 189 messages
Ok here I go.

1. Lots and lots of reused dungeons. This is a no brainer, Bioware knows what they did wrong and I hope DA3 goes back to Origins in terms of level design. Its ok if it happens once or twice in a game but 50+ times in a single game is beyond overkill. So for DA3 you have no choice to make every map unique because you failed hard and owe us on this one. ;)

2. Please hold off releasing a game next time until its done. Blizzard does a great job of this, they dont release their games until the game is flawless (more or less). I'm not saying make games like Blizzard at all, just take a page out of their dedication to release perfection. When I first heard that DA2 was going to be released in early 2011 I was shocked beyond belief, I felt it was way too early for that and that they could not have made a good enough game in such a short timeline, I was right and this game came out missing lots of necessary things. Like graphical details, import problems, game not working for a lot of people.. etc etc.

3. Allowing player to play as different races. I could care less for fully voiced main character, in fact I perfer imagining how my character would sound.

4. Stop borrowing from Mass Effect. Didnt like the dialogue wheel at all, prefered origins conversation catalog. Also liked in origins that what I chose to say was almost exactly what my character said. Sometimes in DA2 it feels like a simple ok response will lead to me insulting someones mother. So expanding the conversation dialogue is a good thing. Also didnt like being limited to good, funny or evil, make more options please.

5. Expand the customization options to include equiping companions armor and to make the tactics screen resemble origins more, where you could see a lot more tactics and could see the path as you expanded each tactic slot.

6. Redesign the items icon in the inventory screen. Honestly everything just looks bad. Nothing looks cool or unique and a simple colour paste doesnt help whatsoever. Try to create unique icons for unique items and attempt enlarge and vary the other items design in the inventory screen. The expanded explanation of the items, stats, properties was also kinda lame, remove the ghostly faded background and make the items appear more pronounced.

7. Liked the story, but there was no clearly defined goal until the last act, so for the majority of the game it felt like my only task was to get rich and help people if I felt like it. I also wish the ending didnt have to be explained to me through varrics story but I could visually see changes that I was making.

8. I wish every mage wasnt a blood mage, there was only a handful of mages in the game that didnt turn to blood magic. Its so hard to feel sorry for mages or want to help them when everoyne is a blood mage. Origins had it right with only a few mages being blood mages and the majority being decent people.

9. Exploding bodies, its very cartoonish when a simple swing of a dagger causes 6 people to blow up. Please make combat damage more believable and semi-realistic . Some kill effects would be nice too.

10. Enemies that appear out of the thin air. Really makes tacitcs almost entirely pointless, why set up anything when someone can just appear behind you and kill you.

11. Inability to stay true to your own lore. Mages can't teleport yet there are mages teleporting in DA2... huh?

12. Cameos are stupid. I never liked the cameos in ME2 and I didnt like em in DA2, or Awakening. If you're going to add old characters to the story at least do them justice and give them a bigger part in the game, something that actually has meaning and contributes to the overall story, god there were so many times I just wished my old companions would turn up and join the champion, but nooooo that would be just too good to be true. Liara was a good example of this in the Shadow Broker but thats the first and only example of good companion cross over that Bioware has done to date.

#1141
Cybermortis

Cybermortis
  • Members
  • 1 083 messages

Hoogies123 wrote...

8. I wish every mage wasnt a blood mage, there was only a handful of mages in the game that didnt turn to blood magic. Its so hard to feel sorry for mages or want to help them when everoyne is a blood mage. Origins had it right with only a few mages being blood mages and the majority being decent people.


There are, what? 4 Blood Mages in DAO you can converse with...of which only one turns into an abomination, one admits to having made a series of errors and regrets their actions. Another turned to BM out of desperation, but is clearly not posessed or insane in any way. The last is just a generic boss to fight.

In DA2 every blood mage you can talk too is either insane, possessed, or about to turn into one or the other. (Baring a particular elf - who's sanity is questionable at times anyway.)


I wonder if the combat system would support having two modes? I'm thinking that if it could the player could have the option to pick an 'arcade' combat or 'realistic' combat.
Acade combat would be more or less what DA2 has, with 'realistic' combat being similar to DAO in having a slightly slower pace and fewer but stronger mobs and no respawns except in logical places.

Such a thing should satisfy everyone, and also allow for far greater re-playability.

No idea if that would be a viable 'patch' for DA2, but might be something worth considering for DA3. 

#1142
Talisk

Talisk
  • Members
  • 21 messages
Please bring back Persuade

I imagine a specific 1 on 1 duel would have never occurred in DA2
if I could have persuaded that individual of otherwise.



Perhaps make these conversation selections class specific.


Warrior: Intimidation - Based on level of Strength

Rogue: Persuasion - Based on level of Cunning

Mage: Magic - Based on level of Magic (duh)



For example main character needs to get by a guard.



1. Outright fight him - Any class choice

2. Pay him off - Any class choice

3. Use knowledge gained from side quest - Any class choice

4* Threaten him aka Intimidate
- Warrior specific choice

4* Be Diplomatic aka Persuade
- Rogue specific Choice

4* Cause a distraction or mind trick Obi-Wan style aka Magic
- Mage specific Choice

5* True Good - Option only available if it coincides with your level of morality

5* True Evil - Option only available if it coincides with your level of morality

5* True Neutral - Option only available if it coincides with your level of morality



Obviously the choices with * beside them wouldn't be available for every
conversation but would be available intermittently and especially when it
counts (similar to DA:O).

Just something to think about and consider. :lol:

Modifié par Talisk, 22 mars 2011 - 08:17 .


#1143
thegrimfandango

thegrimfandango
  • Members
  • 253 messages
Actually, the person above has a point. I havn't noticed many points in the game where problems could be solved with actions other than fighting. I could have just missed them.

I do also really like the voiced protagonist (even though I'm not mad about the voice) mainly because it allows Hawke to act, to move, to make gestures, to be more alive, whereas the silent protagonist necessitates a 'talking heads' type shot, usually from behind so you don't see too much of the mute unrealistic protagonist. Also don't think the personality shifts in Hawke (depending on what type of responses you are picking) gets enough credit. Very nice & smoothly done, and kicks in a lot sooner than I expected.

#1144
Morroian

Morroian
  • Members
  • 6 396 messages

Talisk wrote...

Please bring back Persuade

Persuasion/coercion is still there its just different.

#1145
Crashloop_No

Crashloop_No
  • Members
  • 33 messages
All in all I enjoyed the game but there are things there that just doesn't feel right as a rpg game. I loved to see the old characters from DA:O during my play through and it was really nice to see the story unfold. I have no issues with only humans as playable race as we are after all following the story of a specific person rather then making a hero from scratch as in DA:O. Combat was nice, the exploding enemies did after a while become a bit boring and felt a bit over the top. DA2 isn't a bad game, but it is also one of those games I'm not sure I will bother playing again. I spent good over 350 hours on DA:O and DA:A. DA2 I have spent about 60 as I restarted the mage on act 3 as I had forgotten to upgrade the armor of my companions... I doubt a new playthrough as Warrior will give me much difference in the story telling, sure it will be some, but I fear it won't be enough to want me to replay with each of the classes.

DA2 is not one of the best RPG games Bioware has made that's for sure. It's a decent game as a action rpg, but it lacks the details that would make the entire rpg bit a tad more rpg'ish. Baldur's gate 2 stands for me as a memory of how good a game could be made, with dialogues and things like that. I don't want a new BG2 as the combat system is not something I was extremely happy about, but it worked and the story was good enough to really pull you through the game alone. DA2 does some things right, but also a lot of things wrong. I hope that DA3 really is being put some effort in making the entire game a bit more "alive" and that dialogues and actions you do as a player have a reaction. If you start throwing magic in a place where people fear mages they won't be standing talking like nothing happens they will flee for their lives. And goven the time period we follow the story you would think people was walking more around right? not standing on the exact spot for 3 years. I would love to see a city where NPC's where roaming around and buying stuff, even the companions should do this. And like Fenris mansion is always the same mess with bodies on the floor year after year, sure he is a bit of a ego centered mind but at least you would expect him to clean up the place, get some furnitures etc?

DA2 as mentioned earlier isn't a bad game, but it is not an swesome game either. It does the storytelling effectively however the dialogues should have been made better and there should have been put some thought into what they actually say. I have seen dialogues where it's obvious I'm a mage, yet the guy seems to be blind and deaf no matter that I threw fireballs at his feets. It's the small things with DA2 that really pulls it down for my part. I loved the combat, the story was interesting, companions was good and a few of them were awesome. Yet the small details makes it so that playing it on a second time as a different class isn't really tempting just yet. I will keep my eye open for DLC, however it has to be some pretty quality DLC to get me to buy it all as I did with DA:O.

#1146
artsangel

artsangel
  • Members
  • 320 messages
Having played through three times now - one as Diplomatic, one as Sarcastic, one as Violent - I can say there is a sort of Persuasion system. There are some dialog options that only come up if you are a certain personality type (for example, when you go to the Wounded Coast to take on Emmett's Marauders, if you are primarily Diplomatic or Violent, you get an option to rally the guards to help. If you are Sarcastic, you don't get this option). Also some 'violent' choices don't work if you are Diplomatic or Sarcastic, for example when trying to find the Orlesian Cargo, if you threaten the cargo guy with a knife but don't have a violent personality, it won't work against him.

----

But the reason I came here was for another crit / suggestion: Props. There were absolutely none that I can recall in DAO, and only a handful in DA2 (The Idol, Aveline's Shield, Sword of Mercy, Wine Bottle). Every other time you give something to somebody, or they give something to you, it happens either a) below screen, or B) it's just invisible, like being given a crafting recipe. It always feels lazy to me to not see the item being talked about / given. This was especially a let down in DAO when Alistair hands the FemWarden a rose... beneath the screen.
Please, implement props when people are dealing with items :)

#1147
Foryou

Foryou
  • Members
  • 437 messages
gotta give props to bioware for already looking at complaints so early

#1148
VanDraegon

VanDraegon
  • Members
  • 956 messages
Well, i just finished my first play through. I was pretty thorough about it as well. So, my thoughts on the game...

The Bad:
-Combat was too fast.
I saw the need to speed it up but i think they took it a little too far.  It felt chaotic and out of control most the time. A fairly minor complaint.

-No finishing moves. This was one of my favorite touches in DA:O. Further, the constant exploding corpses was a bit silly. A fairly minor complaint.

-Reused maps. A couple times i am fine with it, but frankly this was just way over the top. I originally thought  i would prefer to have more content and less maps but after playing the entire game i have changed my mind.
Going to what is supposed to be a a new area and knowing the exact  layout of the place because i have played through it already really breaks the immersion for me.  A serious issue to me.

-Inventory was too limited. Guess i am just used to being able to customize my companions more. I understand the reasons behind the choice and cant say i entirely disagree with them, but i am not fond of the result. The inventory screen seemed far too simplified to me. A fairly minor complaint.

-Too little interaction with non companion npcs. I felt like most the town residents, of which there seemed to be few, generally ignored my character for the most part. I felt i should have been able to at least get a couple lines of dialog out of them.  There was a distinct lack of shops. Apparently in Kirkwall everyone just drops a table out in the square. A farily minor complaint.

-Skills and talents reduced.It seemed, at least from a warrior POV, that the skills were pared down. I liked the new skill trees but found mymself only with a few activated skills by the end of the game. Too simplified, imo. A moderate complaint.

-Story was too cinematic.
Far too guided along the path. I dont need a movie based video game. Dont get me wrong, cut scenes are enjoyable but i felt in DA2 they were used to skip content.

-Dialog Wheel. Too easy to make a wrong selection and sometimes doesnt convey what you think it is going to. A minor complaint.



The Good:
-The Story.
I thought it was excellent and told an important part of the troubles ingulfing Thedas.

-Environment. I liked the look and feel of the world.  I didnt mind only being limited to a few areas and one city because i thought the atmosphere of those places was very well done.

-Companions and Characters. I found them to be over all very well done. They were entertaining and i liked that there was a lot more party chatter than in DA:O.  Flemeth is a great NPC. She looks imposing and has a great vision for the world. Isabela is going to be an iconic character i think.

-Art Style and Graphics
. I thought it was excellent. The armor, items and setting were great, imo. There is a lot of over lap here with environment.


I over all enjoyed DA2. It isnt the game i was hoping we would get but i understand why Bioware made the changes they did. I dont always agree with those choices however. I didnt finished the game feeling as satisifed and drained by the experience like i did in DA:O. I have replayed DA:O at least 8 times at this point. I know i wont get near that many out of DA2. It just didnt leave me feeling as satisified.  Most of the time i felt like i was sitting at my pc playing a console game.  That really isnt a feeling i care too much for. DA2 is missing something.... it doesnt feel anywhere near as epic as Origins. It didnt feel as special to me and didnt leave me upset that i was finished like the previous game.

DLC for Origins i bought without question, any future DLC for DA2 is gonna heve to make an impression on me or i dont think i will bother.

In the end however, i got to play another game in the Dragon Age world and that is what i wanted.

7/10

Modifié par VanDraegon, 22 mars 2011 - 11:24 .


#1149
tomas819

tomas819
  • Members
  • 84 messages
 I'm nearing the end of this game, and I just want to say I really have enjoyed it.

These features were highlights (for me):
-- Great characters: companions, NPCs, all of them
-- Fun quests
-- Absolutely awesome voice acting
-- I loved the improvements to combat and graphics
-- What an intriguing story, lots of unexpected twists and turns, slowly building over time
-- Well-written romances
-- The framed narrative really worked well for me (and, yes, I was doubtful at first)
-- Great armors: finally, mages don't have to look like dorks -- Yay! Posted Image
-- Dog the way he should have been
-- The Black Emporium was nice, too

A (very) few suggestions for improvement:
-- I would have liked more freedom over companion specs; I so wanted to make Fenris a sword/shield warrior like Aveline but couldn't. :(
-- I wish Bioware would finally offer an option to display one armor even if  you're wearing another
-- When I first saw the armor tabs for the companions, I thought I was going to obtain several armors per companion and that I could pick which one to display. It was very disappointing not to have any choice in how their armors looked.
-- You need to open up lockpicking (bashing [warriors], blasting [mages]) to other classes OR ...
-- You need to have lockpicking (cunning) not suck up so darned many attribute points from your rogue. Posted Image

All in all, though, it was a great game. Thanks so much! Posted Image

Modifié par tomas819, 22 mars 2011 - 11:29 .


#1150
Jerrytje

Jerrytje
  • Members
  • 1 messages
Exuse my poor english

The level re-hash burned my eyes.
Back tracking killed a little part of me
I really liked the diffrent start ups in DAO
Would like to customize the character before I start, not after.
I absolutly loved a big chunck of the story, the conflict with the chantry was very amusing
Kirkwall is a ****ty city, liked the big world scope much more.
The combat animation looks great ! , make it even better.
I dont feel very powerfull in boss fights , but its reasonably good.
I still dont get why every mage is a bloodmage
loved the new flemeth design but want to see more of her
loved the family drama
wish I could be/have justice.
want the game to be beautyfull, my girlfriend should be interrested in they scenery while I am beheading a templar.
felt I had more influence as a gray warden, chuckled when I saw a gray warden with a mustache
next DLC should be free, I feel the game wasnt worth the full price.
because it simply wasnt finished propely.

edit: use the rockstar LA noire facecapture in DA3

and it will be game of the year

Modifié par Jerrytje, 22 mars 2011 - 11:53 .