Constructive Criticism
#1251
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:21
Kirkwall - I'm there for years, yet the place feels like an empty sandbox invented solely for me, not a thriving city.
Quests - I don't feel an overwhelming need to do anything. There's no urgency. Where's my motivation? What am I striving towards? Why am I bothered? When my mother went missing it felt like something I needed to do immeadiatly - but this has been an exception. The rest of the time I'm wandering back and forth killing time. This is an RPG grind!
Combat - The combat in this RPG is a step too far for me. I managed to get over my initial frustration with the pacing and simplicity of ME2 and learned to love it as something else, but I can't love DA2 no mater how I try. It is not the tactical skill based game I was hoping for (don't worry, I am on nightmare), it has turned into a button masher so loved by console players. The combat is boring and repetative, with very few fights that stand out as interesting. And the waves.... oh god the waves!
Waves of enemies - One fight in DA:O (amongst many memorable encounters from that game) for me stood out as an exceptionaly interesting challenge. It was the spider boss on the way to the broodmother. I learned to position my team out of reach and draw off groups at a time when a new wave arrived. Once in DA:O made it interesting. Doing it every fight in DA2 is not.
Skill trees - I love these. Different shapes for different uses. Upgrading of skills being useful but not necessary. Good move.
Junk - I see a lot of people don't like it, but I hate having to individualy select and flog each piddly gem you pick up, so I like this too.
Companions clothing - Personaly I'm happy to not have to worry about what my companions wear, but I'm disapointed that upgrading their equipment was a simple case of finding or buying upgrades. A missed opportunity I think.
Pre-release DLC - are you guys having a laugh at our expense? Of course it's our expense, you expect us to pay for it.
Banter - between companions this is first rate. Between Hawke and companions - why can't I talk to them about random stuff?
The big breaker for me is the lack of feeling that Kirkwall is a thriving city and that I'm having any impact on it or even that it's worth me doing anything at all. And if I do do anything you can guarantee there will be another pointless band of .... crap another wave!
#1252
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:57
I fully support BioWare's right to make any kind of game they want, and to make it for any platform they want. But hack 'n' slash really is a console gaming thing - Dragon Age made its name on being and RPG. The combat really could stand to be slowed down, maybe not as slow as Origins (I liked Origins' combat speed, but clearly, others thought it too slow), but nowhere near what it is now.
Additionally, the comments about DA2 leaving more questions than it answered and feeling more like an errand runner than a hero or actual Champion are spot on. I can only hope this is a "bridge" game between Origins and a properly plotted DA3 that won't be released until it actually is done (the online publication Kotaku can be very informative...) that ties up the numerous loose ends.
The lack of choice at significant plot points is disturbing though, as is the inability to care at all about most of your companions because after a decade, you still don't know them.
#1253
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:13
However, my big criticism is that the combat is a bit too "Hollywood" and it breaks the immersion. What I mean by that is that there is too much jumping around, gliding through air, flipping and acrobatics. I wish combat was more down to earth "real".
Yes yes...I know you must make the combat flashy so that it looks cool for the mainstream audience. It looks great in trailers and it sells games. But maybe if you toned it down a bit. Maybe keep the acrobatics to the cut scenes....or make them at least somewhat realistic looking.
For example, I loved that animation from Origins where your character would launch himself at an ogre at the end of the fight and give him that final stab. That was a great balance between realism and flashy fantasy combat. Not too spectacular, not boring, it felt just right.
And please bring back the decapitation animations instead of exploding enemies...
#1254
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:34
UI:
- The overall UI was sterile, bordering on futuristic, which detracted from the atmosphere of what was a medieval fantasy game. Many other posters suggested a scroll as a background and that could work. Other suggestions might be a stone tablet. I'dsuggest splitting the journal and codex in particular to a scroll format while character stats and abilities could have been in the stone format as they were less malleable once your selections were locked in.
- The generic icons on the trash loot showed little effort on details, albeit one that was inconsequential. A lot of posters expressed their desire to have written text accompany every single piece of loot. At least generating artwork in the icons would be a fairly good compromise and highlight quest items and items that might garner greater value from selling it off to merchants rather than just being viewed as something taking up your bags.
- Resistances should have been included on the stats page.
- Displaying the set bonuses of armor sets on the abilities page was welcome, although it would still have been better served to be placed on the inventory screen so that we wouldn't require flipping throuhg pages to evaluate what items were better or worse, etc.
- I understand the reasoning behind abandoning the isometric PoV but having played the game on PC, I'd have preferred the option to scroll a bit further back. Say 25% would have kept the more personal feel to the game while giving a better overall view of the battlefield.
- If you are going to recycle areas, please have the the werewithal to at least mask it. The maps should have only displayed the accessible areas. It screams of laziness and while I ignored it for the most part, enough people felt outraged by the reuse of zones. Maps fully revealing the extent of the copy-paste was salt in the proverbial wound.
- The tactics needed to be in smaller font or display to show more of them simultaneously on screen.
- The character models werevaried and for the most part well-done but I'd have liked to see some minor alterations to companion characters each time you picked up a piece of their additional armour sets in addition to changes wrought through the story triggers. These changes would be minor, but would add a lot of polish and more a sense of investment in the characters as we see not only their personalities but also their looks evolve over time. RPG fans tend to be very detail-oriented and borderline anal about such things. Showing that you are making an effort in even a subtle manner goes a long way to engender good faith.
- Kirkwall needed to be made more lively with additional character models to create the sense of activity. Hightown was fine as is being the residence of the upper class, but Lowtown and particularly dark town would have benefitted from more NPCs (even non interactable ones) to create a stronger contrast between the areas and the social classes. There are more people in the lower classes and thus those areas should be more crowded.
- Lowtown and Hightown needed more variety in the overall scenery. As a former mine, that most of the walls in Darktown were the same colour was fine by me. The poverty of its citizens made sense for them not to bother with aesthetics such as painting the walls and what have you. On the other hand, Lowtown should have been a hodge podge of colours to make the buildings stand out, particularly the accessible locations like the Hanged Man, etc to better give the sense that people were better off in that neighbourhood. Hightown would benefit from more greenery. I'd have prefered that the various estates' entrances actually be gates to their grounds rather than doors that go immediately inside. The white stone and additional gates would have given a greater sense of a homogeneous and stuffy society that wanted to keep the riff-raff out. That said, entering a gate would still lead inside the mansion proper unless you intended to have an outdoor fight.
- No change in lighting within Darktown between time of day really felt awkward. The deep roads had torches or special rock formations to provide illumination. Darktown should have had the torches and maybe the occasional firepit provide the ambient light during the night.
- Recycled maps; enough said. I would add that a few more different points of entry for the cave areas could have been used if only to give some semblance of variety. Moreso if the map were flipped to show this change of perspective. Changing the skins would have been preferable.
- Exploding deaths were somewhat appropriate in some occasions but not others. The design should have erred towards using it sensically and cautiously rather than gratuitously. Nevertheless, it was still better than what it replaced in Origins.
- The letters and item orders menus could have also used a more quill and paper look instead of the futurisitc email application feel.
- Not to beat a dead horse... but recycled maps has to be the biggest knock against the game and made things predictable. Note, I'm not targetting areas like the city locations or some of the outdoor areas but the caves. Preserving the same layouts led to predictable battle locations and made it far too straightforward. Had some of the maps been more extensive and mazelike would have given a greater sense of exploration but also throw a few curveballs. Moreso if you had multiple paths that lead to rooms which would help mask the spawning reinforcements many players complain about. Personally, it never reallydetracted from gameplay. In fact, it created a sense of urgency and chaos to a fight. However, it is an obvious sore point to a significant vocal number of players.
- Speaking for myself, combat was overall very slick and more enjoyable than Origins. I'd make an analaguous comparison to Batman: Arkham Asylum. Fights like the rock wraith boss, arishok, and the first ogre battle in the prologue were great and were akin to the fight against Poison Ivy. I'd have liked to have seen more bosses along those lines. However, just throwing in a few extra elite monsters like rage demons was overused and turned some fights repetitive. Batman: Arkham Asylum had the same problem with Bane and the super thugs. The first time (Bane himself) was a lot of fun, but following that it became more of a chore.
- The Cross class combos were well implemented and the new ability trees were most welcome. The unique or companion specific skill trees really created diversity among them.
- I'd have liked to have more opportunities to exchange dialog with Hawke's sibling during act 2. Your other family members are in contact with them to a point. It would further elaborate or paint new perspective on the events in act 3 to create more personal stake in the final decision.
- The game needed another healer if only to prevent being forced into dragging Anders along throughout most of the game (particularly on harder difficulties) and would also give more replayability. I wouldn't make the additional healer as good as Anders' with martyr specialty path, but having access to the creation tree only or an ability in a specialist tree would have certainly helped.
- A few more changes to the characters over the time skips would have been more interesting and demonstrate they weren't just tagalongs but also living and breathing characters. Merill, Anders, Varric had elements of this going for them with Aveline being the most prominent once she attains a position of prominence in the city. On the other hand, Sebastian's struggle over his birthright had a strong start but never had enough momentum if you chose to encourage him to reclaim it.
- Along the same lines, early in act 2 Varric asks Hawke what he would like to do with his newfound wealth and position in the city and you're given a few options. It would have been nice that this choice could have been explored in the game. Espescially if this choice later gives access to specific quests. A business entrepreneur would focus on the challenges of becoming successful and geting some additional revenue to buy equipment while a political busybody might get the option to become the ruler of the city and deal with the management of Kirkwall.
- I've only gone through 1 romance (male hawke w/Merrill) and liked the narrative around it. At the conclusion of her arc, I'd have liked to see a follow up on how that plays out for the couple.
- The templars ignoring a mage hawk was a plot hole one could fly a high dragon through. While events in the game by the 3rd and final act might explain their reluctance or unspoken tolerance of Hawke's continued activities, prior to that I'd include some possible fights against templars if you were too brazen and blatant with your abilities. Fighting in dark town wouldn't draw attention to hawke and the group, but Hightown and the Gallows most certainly should.
- I'd have liked to have seen Uncle Gamlen more involved past act 1 in the game's story. I understand he isn't pivotal to the plot, but after the events that transpire in Hawke's life, a more saintly inclined Hawke could still have family to rely upon while a harsher Hawke might end up pushing his uncle further away due to abrasiveness.
- Too many blood mages made it difficult to want to sympathize with the mages and made Anders' struggle difficult to defend. Conversely, it turned the Templars' duty into something too black and white. The final choice would have been more difficult on the players if we got a glimpse of the hard decisions the templars had to struggle with on a daily basis.
- There were several poignant scenes in the plot that worked really well and spoilers keep me from highlighting them. I'd rate the framed narrative as highly successful for a first time out and very innovative for the genre. I'm hoping to see where Bioware goes with it in the future.
#1255
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 02:31
My first long post back on page 40 contains pretty much everything I needed to say about the game. But one thing that has come back to me that I didn't mention then...
What happened to the Darkspawn? I felt *fear* during the cutscene right before the Battle of Ostagar with hurlocks and genlocks and emissaries and Ogres emerging from the forest shrouded in a smokey fog. The Darkspawn were threatening, horrific, and truly lived up to their position as big bads.
The new graphics design... it burns my eyes. Not only did you entirely remove Genlocks and Shrieks from existence, you made the Hurlocks walk like planet of the ape characters with swords and had the flesh melted off their face so it looked like a legion of Skeletors are marching across the Blightlands and are having fun at Sundermount. The Ogres, I have no comment though I do think that the Ogres in Origins looked more fearsome and less laughable... and were also tougher to kill.
#1256
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 03:41
1. Bigger/easier to read text please. I have a 40inch tv and I still had trouble reading the text.
2. Quicker loading time
I feel I liked a lot of the things others didn't. The abilities trees seemed more intuitive to me, I enjoyed that the companions had their own personal tree. I liked that the companions had their own armor, but I found this approach less cumbersome than wasting time trying to make sure the team is well equipped. I still got to assign weapons, accessories, runes...
I thought the storyteller angle was a good one. It got me really curious about where the story was going. I, also, appreciated that it was more about the life of the Champion, instead trying to defeat some great enemy.I liked that Hawke was fully voiced. I think they could have played up on that angle with more interactions with companions. One criticism was even though 6 years past not much really seemed to change in Kirkwall. However, the ending really got me excited for a possible DA3.
I actually liked the companions better in DAII. Particularly, I like Varric, Anders, Merril and Fenris. They had interesting backstories that could have been fleshed out. I think it would be cool, if in DAIII, you import your character along with your romance companion (from either DAO or DAII) to continue their adventures. Might be too much work though
Anyway, I hope there is a 3rd installment with more from the DAII characters.
#1257
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 03:57
#1258
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 04:09
1. The city of Kirkwall could have been a bit more lively in the markets and the docks. To be more clear, there could have been more background chatter, not necessarily actual dialogue but just the kind of chatter you would here walking around a busy area.
2. The caves/dungeons while being copy/pastes could have worked if the areas had been a bit bigger or if they had even two more areas.
3. The story and dialogue were excellent so no complaint there, and the endgame is truly exciting.
4. I like the simplified inventory/ability trees and how the trees weren't just a linear progression from one ability to the next.
5. The story of Hawke and his companions/family was much more engrossing than a save the world type story that DA:O had.
6. As a console player I liked the revamped combat mechanics. I felt much more involved in the combat.
7. YAY full voice acting!!! /mansqueeling
8. Loved the companions ecspecially Merill and Varric.
Modifié par Top55, 25 mars 2011 - 04:11 .
#1259
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 04:28
i agree with must of the posts but my biggest grievance is with the mane story plot missions don't get me wrong i think the story is awesome and may even be better the DAO in some ways but there is options missing witch i think should have been there and could be added witch a DLC or even just a patch very easily
not having the ability of becoming vicount and change Kirkwall that being the laws or having a choice to renovate areas stuff like that.
lack of options in the big moments in the plots for example.
-Not being able to pick which brother or sister you can save on opening sequence.
-Not playing year one when you are indebted to what ever faction you chose.
-You can not save hawks mother.
-Bethany/Carver there is only 3 options for them all of which ends in the same result, one they go to the chantry (templare/mage circle) or they go to the deep roads where they can Die or become a Gray Warden all of which the end result is them leave your party and you can't even visit them for a bit of dialog (i know you can see them at act 3 and 4 but that is not much)
-The other being the deep roads it is said in the game that hawk goes deeper then anyone believed possible yet you only spend about 5 to 10 mins max in there i was hopeing for a new map area like in DAO where you can pick areas.
over all this is a good game but i would of waited an extra year or so for them to refine it and make a good game into and AWSOME ROCKING GAME! that being said they can save it if they change at least some of the things that have been posted in this thread with a patch or something.
Modifié par genuine666, 25 mars 2011 - 04:31 .
#1260
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 04:43
#1261
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 05:51
I agree more or less with everything that has been said here so I'll just voice the things that annoyed me the most:
1) Lack of choice. There really isn't much in this game unlike Origins. The story is great, but in most cases no matter what course of action you take the end result is exactly the same. This severely limits the enjoyment of replays. In origins the first 2-3 play throughs had the option of being very different from previous ones.
-More banter and scenes with your companions. I loved/liked all of the companions (with the exception of Anders, but that's simply because you cannot change his fate) and the rivalry/friendship meter. I also believe that they were intergrated much better in the story then in Origins. More banter and an in game explanation as to why the appearance of certain companions changes would be nice and a wedding/party would have also been well recieved.
-Kirkwall is a stangant city. Seriously, with the exception of a specific statue and the closing of an area in the last act everything remains the same. How about a parade? Or new neighbours? Or a celebration in the chantry? Or a service in the chantry? Or a bunch of kids growing up? Or Hawke and his companions ageing a bit for that matter? Or Hawke actually starting a family?
-Combat. I love the changes and trees. Its fun, fast, interesting and satisying. But please, less waves and make them appear in a more logical fashion.
-Equipment: I both like and not like not being able to customize my companions armor. Sure I don't have to worry about it, but I also have to sell so much good loot
...and that's it of the top of my ahead.
Thank you for a great game and I look forward to a sublime DAIII!
RP.
Edit: removed spoilers.
Modifié par Rising Phoenix, 25 mars 2011 - 06:01 .
#1262
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 07:51
#1263
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 07:58
1> Individual "hold" orders - so I can keep my squishies in a good sniper spot while my Tank and Isabela smack things
2> enemies that are not base jumpers. have them run around a corner, pop out of a door or something more immersive.
3> more ability to customise companion armour - I like the concept but the companion armours are at best 2nd tier gear. I would like to be able to add more awesome sauce with a bit of work and/or coin.
#1264
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 08:11
Things like new plants, statues, trees growing/blooming, new buildings, abandoned old buildings could make the city feel like it's changing.
Companions do occasionally comment on past events but it's not enough to make time feel like it has passed so much. I'm sure there's a lot more ways to improve the feel of time passing.
Same goes for DA:O, that took place over a year but the mages tower didn't seem like it was recovering until the Morrigan DLC, and there should have been more encounters with darkspawn near the end of the game than there was to give the feel that the darkspawn were invading.
#1265
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 10:21
Half-assed cameos. Namely Alistair's and Zevran's. Do it right, or don't bother doing it, please. Both were major characters with a huge fanbase that deserved a better treatment instead of generic, disfigured faces and bugged dialog.
#1266
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 10:29
Needs more puzzle elements though as did Origins, as you don't really need to use your brain wit RPG's these days which is a shame. More puzzles and DLC missions and DA2 could best even Origins.
Sorry have to rush this but working.
#1267
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 11:14
i do hope they improve it in DLC (more cities and dungeons)
sorry for my bad english
#1268
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 11:23
And here is the big reason I do not like this game. Having played Dante and Batman, I liked those games for what they were - button bashing brawlers. DA2 is a button basher that is prettending to be an RPG.Phwrobel wrote...
[*]Speaking for myself, combat was overall very slick and more enjoyable than Origins. I'd make an analaguous comparison to Batman: Arkham Asylum. Fights like the rock wraith boss, arishok, and the first ogre battle in the prologue were great and were akin to the fight against Poison Ivy.
[/list]
Modifié par Painiess, 25 mars 2011 - 11:24 .
#1269
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:11
#1270
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:34
That being said, thanks for the High Res texture pack...that was a nice gesture to us high end PC folk.
#1271
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:51
BluGirl1968 wrote...
I think that arguments about recycling locations are not logical in the story context. The reason is that this particular story takes place in a specific city and landscape that becomes well known to Hawke after 10 years.It makes sense unless you view Thedas as a Lovecraftian place where the streets that were never there before suddenly open into a world that is strange and new or the whole world is the fade. It is an irrational and unthinking argument.
i fined that comment even more illogical lol what ppl are trying to say is that the town areas it self could have been bigger and that on the map out side of kirkwall could have ad more locations and don't even get me started on the CAVES! lol and you don't even get a map of the deep roads
#1272
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 12:58
Combat: Getting a bit bored to be honest, the wave thing isn't that big a deal for me, although the droping out of the sky is a bit ludicrous is it any more so than when the dead bodies melt away?!
No it's the grinding aspect that's getting old and the insane hit point counts on the bosses I'm thinking specifically of the boss at the end of Act 2, I didn't find that tactically challenging just dull as ditchwater, took me back to the Malak battle at the end of KOTOR
I'd also add my voice to the calls for more companion interaction, only being able to have proper conversations with them when a quest is in the offing or I'm specifically told to by the journal is not how I thought it was going to be. Even the text on the loading screen makes it seem as if you could have a more Origins camp fire style of convo's, it says something like 'visit your companions in their homebases frequently for conversations you can't have on the road'
Whilst on the subject of companions: Outfits, Ok I get the argument that you wanted to give them unique looks but really, the same outfits for ten years?!! Isabella's thong must be getting a bit whiffy by now!! Couldn't you have at least redressed them between acts?!
Finally a couple of glitches as well, i'm on the Xbox and I'll post them in the technical forum but as others have reported the Sketchy quest whilst completing didn't close down in my journal and the Forbidden Tomes quest just didn't finish after I found them all, I was never given the option of going to the secret location
#1273
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:09
There was not enough monies collected for the high priced gear, nor enough plunder in general that was collected. The words were small print and hard to read at times, while I had to keep the conversation labels on all the time, for even though the volume was turned up, it was hard to hear. They could of also used a better color than yellow to highlight treasure and plunder. It was hard to see. Also, by the beginning of Act 3, I was getting tired of seeing the same old city, the same old caverns, and ready to venture out to something different.
I hope these will be improved in Origins 3 and 4. After all, according to the codex, there were 7 old gods to begin with, and in DA:O we had killed old god number 5. There are still 2 more out there.
#1274
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:11
There was not enough monies collected for the high priced gear, nor enough plunder in general that was collected. The words were small print and hard to read at times, while I had to keep the conversation labels on all the time, for even though the volume was turned up, it was hard to hear. They could of also used a better color than yellow to highlight treasure and plunder. It was hard to see. Also, by the beginning of Act 3, I was getting tired of seeing the same old city, the same old caverns, and ready to venture out to something different.
I hope these will be improved in Origins 3 and 4. After all, according to the codex, there were 7 old gods to begin with, and in DA:O we had killed old god number 5. There are still 2 more out there.
Modifié par Kestral, 25 mars 2011 - 01:16 .
#1275
Posté 25 mars 2011 - 01:12
Charliea1234 wrote...
Combat: Getting a bit bored to be honest, the wave thing isn't that big a deal for me, although the droping out of the sky is a bit ludicrous is it any more so than when the dead bodies melt away?!
i have seen this a lot on the forum but i have to say when ever i have seen enemies drop from anywhere it looks to me that the coming over the walls or if inside a building threw a window





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