Bad =
Reused maps (lazy, should be free DLC to add variety)
Companion armour lock down (let me equip even if like the new and cool helmet toggle in options)
Exploding mannequin enemies (blood instead eg walking bomb in origins better)
Enemies appear from no where (just bizarre)
-------------
All the others i don't really agree with/ mind
Constructive Criticism
Débuté par
HawXV2
, mars 15 2011 06:50
Retour en haut
#1452
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 11:14
Chibi Elemental
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- Members
- 775 messages
Probably been covered but I'll post it anyway.
Dragon age 2 felt like dragon age origins sort of, what I mean by that is I really liked how it was stylised for a story telling themed game, and I found myself cursing varric for when ever a new wave of enemies spawned in nightmare, however if we are to go back to a none storytelling game (a game where the story is not being told second hand) Then please slow down the combat, The fast passed combat made it feel less like dragon age to me and you had to loose some key components that I really enjoyed from the first game, such as sync kills which gave some really fun times.
Now I would love to see in dragonage 3 if we return to a more in the now setting to slower paced more realistic spead to combat and not so hyper active, its cool for a bards tale but for a in the now moment not so much and would really ruin the immersion.
also in future sword and board games please bring back sync kills even if they are small, look to games like shogun 2 or even Dawn of War 2, I know those are rts but those games have some really nifty kills and they impact the game play by only a faction do to their snappy response time and also damage reduction while the kill is happening. Also if you decide to add in sync kills for the next installment please have a wider veriety even if it is 2-3 per type of enemy I doubt the same kill animation would look the same for a spider as it does for a human.
My next observation that I had for dragon age 2 was this, I enjoyed the story a whole lot but I found the game to be a bit well bottom heavy, It was cool that I had all these neet side quests at the beginning of the game but I would have rather had all those side quests sort of spread out more, and also be more rewarding, such as items, better different looking items are what rpg are partly about.
Which brings me to my last little thing about dragon age 2 I would like to cover, the armor in this game looked amazing and I wanted to wear every piece at least once just to see what it looked like, unfortunately the best items in every chapter were a set of items, which really made me sad as I would equip this set and be like sad as I would not be seeing other armors unless it was just for cosmetic fun. now there are a few ways to get around this, the easiest way would be to make many different sets that all do something good for the class but for a different type of that class like with rogue for example, make one set that focuses more on increasing your crit chance by a whole ton and not your crit multiplier as you know your going to be putting more cunning into your build then dex, things like that. Or another way have no sets at all and just let people put things together on thier own which in my opinion is the more boreing rout.
And one last and final thing, I think all concept artists should have to wear the armor they draw and come up for the game for one whole day, it will lead to less umm lawl what appearances
and you may even get some lawls out of it 
Dragon age 2 felt like dragon age origins sort of, what I mean by that is I really liked how it was stylised for a story telling themed game, and I found myself cursing varric for when ever a new wave of enemies spawned in nightmare, however if we are to go back to a none storytelling game (a game where the story is not being told second hand) Then please slow down the combat, The fast passed combat made it feel less like dragon age to me and you had to loose some key components that I really enjoyed from the first game, such as sync kills which gave some really fun times.
Now I would love to see in dragonage 3 if we return to a more in the now setting to slower paced more realistic spead to combat and not so hyper active, its cool for a bards tale but for a in the now moment not so much and would really ruin the immersion.
also in future sword and board games please bring back sync kills even if they are small, look to games like shogun 2 or even Dawn of War 2, I know those are rts but those games have some really nifty kills and they impact the game play by only a faction do to their snappy response time and also damage reduction while the kill is happening. Also if you decide to add in sync kills for the next installment please have a wider veriety even if it is 2-3 per type of enemy I doubt the same kill animation would look the same for a spider as it does for a human.
My next observation that I had for dragon age 2 was this, I enjoyed the story a whole lot but I found the game to be a bit well bottom heavy, It was cool that I had all these neet side quests at the beginning of the game but I would have rather had all those side quests sort of spread out more, and also be more rewarding, such as items, better different looking items are what rpg are partly about.
Which brings me to my last little thing about dragon age 2 I would like to cover, the armor in this game looked amazing and I wanted to wear every piece at least once just to see what it looked like, unfortunately the best items in every chapter were a set of items, which really made me sad as I would equip this set and be like sad as I would not be seeing other armors unless it was just for cosmetic fun. now there are a few ways to get around this, the easiest way would be to make many different sets that all do something good for the class but for a different type of that class like with rogue for example, make one set that focuses more on increasing your crit chance by a whole ton and not your crit multiplier as you know your going to be putting more cunning into your build then dex, things like that. Or another way have no sets at all and just let people put things together on thier own which in my opinion is the more boreing rout.
And one last and final thing, I think all concept artists should have to wear the armor they draw and come up for the game for one whole day, it will lead to less umm lawl what appearances
and you may even get some lawls out of it
#1453
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 12:11
mr fried
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- Members
- 16 messages
Ignoring the obvious bugs in the game that ruined things I'll re-hash a few things others said and add my own feel on it.
Big choices and big influences = lots of replay
Mass Effect, they carried over many of the things you did into ME2, so you replay to get that one 'sweet' saved game to carry over, same with ME2, there are things we assume will have a huge impact on ME3 so we've played it a few times for that perfect save game, or a few saved games that will provide different options...
When hearing that DA:2 would import the charactor and choices from DA how many replayed the game to make all the 'right' choices? Same with the DLC and awakenings, how many of those big choices did you agonise over? So when I'm left feeling that my choices didn't really matter or have a big impact and that things happened regardless of what I did, I question the existance of that one sweet perfect saved game, it doesn't inspire me to look for it if there is one because there probably isn't.
I was disapointed to find my DA:O choices didn't have much of an impact but maybe they will in the next game.
To fix it they need to make a DLC or Awakenings style expansion that adds huge impact things where you turn left or right and feel like you control that choice and outcome and it will have a lasting impact, they need to make it so that those small and minor choices you made in DA2 that seem to have no significance actually does create waves that shake things up for you in the expac, they need to add back to it the feel that you actually control your fate and things matter as well as increase the size of the game and add more areas. It can be done, and the DLC could really shake things up and turn it around. There is still hope...
I hate that there is a set path for the story, that 'this will always happen' the end of act 2 will happen regardless it's only when you get to the throne room that you may find you have three ways to deal with the situation, would it have been so bad to seek solutions early on and make it so that the end of act 2 is just one posible option of maybe one or two other possible options.
And the end of act 3, Seriously? I mean seriously? With Awakenings the design team showed and clearly understood that just because you may design a boss fight doesn't mean you have to include it, in DA2 this lack of understanding only goes to further reinforce the feeling that nothing you do changes anything and that you actually have no real choice in this game, it doesn't inspire you to play the game again to see what happens if you make different choices, because what is being said at the very end of the game is that there are no choices, it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to put it mildly.
the re-use of the small maps, everyone has said it, I'm suprised no one at Bioware picked up on this early on, in Origins even the random encounters had a totally different map layout, having all the side areas use one map design with blocked of doors was incredibly lazy, I can understand it was done to save time but Bioware has to in turn understand that people will notice and will hate it especially as many people who play it will have played Origins which was amazing.
Now while I understand they felt they needed to do something with combat, the whole waves of enemies and huge quantities of them sucked the excitement out of the combat that they looking to inject into it, lets ignore the fact that it was totally unrealistic (Kirkwall would see it's population drop to 0 if it was true to life) as a Warrior in DA:O I played the 1-hand and shield method and found it fun, but with this I felt I had to realistically play as 2-hand to get the AOE attacks just to clear the volume of enemies in those encounters, there was no real grace or style to the trash fights.
While they may have felt trash fights in DA:O were lengthy and dull, I found myself getting bored alot faster with the repetative fast 'wave' style combat that didn't need thinking about than I did with the lengthier combat in Origins. I think they are on the right path but they should have aproached something in the middle of those two extremes.
I disliked the nerfs to the healing spells, they took away alot of healing spells and then extended the cooldown on the one universal healing spell to something you could use once (maybe twice on a boss fight) but somehow this didn't matter as I found I didn't need a healer for most of the game... To me I don't think of that as a good thing, you can tell that there is something wrong with combat where you don't need a healer or a well timed healing spell to survive the combat encounter.
Companions; they did alot right here, they kept the banter between party members, I liked my companions and their skills and abilities and did like taking each and every one of them with me rather than just leave them behind, I loved that they had their own lives and places to hang out rather than sit around a camp-fire while I'm off risking my neck. I liked that I couldn't just max out friendships by giving them gifts or talking at the campfire but had to take them to places.
They had broad and rich personalities, we got to sample only a small amount of it though.
What Bioware got wrong here however was making it that unless you played as a mage you spent most of the game with only one healer (although you could get away with not needing a healer) the fact I wasn't able to talk to them when out and about, the way I was limited only to quest dialogue, they could have put in a few other conversations, things like with Origins where they would tell you about themselves and tell you more as you increased your standing with them, the love intrest dialogue, who's bright idea was it to remove the option to kiss infront of companions where you could experiance the others thoughts and opinions or discomfort, or the whole 'get in my tent woman' thing, they showed they could do the whole complex LI thing with Morrigan with all those different conversations leading up to it and after you've formed a relationship with her. I just want more conversations in DA2, I want to be able to talk to them when out and about, I loved what was done with companions, just give me more damnit.
The changes to the crafting system were brilliant, it did feel worthwhile and rewarding.
Junk, well it's been said before, but I think something more could have been done here. either crafting quests or items with a lore to them, or things that are junk that different Kirkwall merchants might be intrested in, this is the difficult one as they will never be able to make people happy on this, a small comprimise where junk gets a short discription and that there is less junk dropped could be a possible solution.
The game could have been longer, act 3 felt especially short (probably the huge amount of side quests in act 1 didn't help feeling there wasn't much going on in act 3 just what seemed like 5 or so quests). I actually would have liked to play more as Hawk and maybe spent time in that first year working on getting that early reputation, building up contacts with those crafters... Doing all those things eluded to but never seen or experianced.
Being fully voiced was for me the best thing of this game, if Origins was fully voiced I would play it all the time.
DA2 is a good game, it's better than alot of games out there, it's just not as good as Origins and not quite as good as the Mass Effect games, if some really good DLC is released that gives new areas and new maps, maybe a map pack that shakes up the existing recycled maps in DA2, maybe something that adjusts or addresses the big issues that people have, it would be a bold and daring step but could go far, or if they do something like Awakenings as I said before that makes the choices made actually matter and injects alot of further choice that has real impact in it, DA2 could easily be the game we were wanting and hoping for, it could maybe get brought up to being on the same level as Mass Effect 1+2 and just under Origins.
Big choices and big influences = lots of replay
Mass Effect, they carried over many of the things you did into ME2, so you replay to get that one 'sweet' saved game to carry over, same with ME2, there are things we assume will have a huge impact on ME3 so we've played it a few times for that perfect save game, or a few saved games that will provide different options...
When hearing that DA:2 would import the charactor and choices from DA how many replayed the game to make all the 'right' choices? Same with the DLC and awakenings, how many of those big choices did you agonise over? So when I'm left feeling that my choices didn't really matter or have a big impact and that things happened regardless of what I did, I question the existance of that one sweet perfect saved game, it doesn't inspire me to look for it if there is one because there probably isn't.
I was disapointed to find my DA:O choices didn't have much of an impact but maybe they will in the next game.
To fix it they need to make a DLC or Awakenings style expansion that adds huge impact things where you turn left or right and feel like you control that choice and outcome and it will have a lasting impact, they need to make it so that those small and minor choices you made in DA2 that seem to have no significance actually does create waves that shake things up for you in the expac, they need to add back to it the feel that you actually control your fate and things matter as well as increase the size of the game and add more areas. It can be done, and the DLC could really shake things up and turn it around. There is still hope...
I hate that there is a set path for the story, that 'this will always happen' the end of act 2 will happen regardless it's only when you get to the throne room that you may find you have three ways to deal with the situation, would it have been so bad to seek solutions early on and make it so that the end of act 2 is just one posible option of maybe one or two other possible options.
And the end of act 3, Seriously? I mean seriously? With Awakenings the design team showed and clearly understood that just because you may design a boss fight doesn't mean you have to include it, in DA2 this lack of understanding only goes to further reinforce the feeling that nothing you do changes anything and that you actually have no real choice in this game, it doesn't inspire you to play the game again to see what happens if you make different choices, because what is being said at the very end of the game is that there are no choices, it's a bit of a kick in the teeth to put it mildly.
the re-use of the small maps, everyone has said it, I'm suprised no one at Bioware picked up on this early on, in Origins even the random encounters had a totally different map layout, having all the side areas use one map design with blocked of doors was incredibly lazy, I can understand it was done to save time but Bioware has to in turn understand that people will notice and will hate it especially as many people who play it will have played Origins which was amazing.
Now while I understand they felt they needed to do something with combat, the whole waves of enemies and huge quantities of them sucked the excitement out of the combat that they looking to inject into it, lets ignore the fact that it was totally unrealistic (Kirkwall would see it's population drop to 0 if it was true to life) as a Warrior in DA:O I played the 1-hand and shield method and found it fun, but with this I felt I had to realistically play as 2-hand to get the AOE attacks just to clear the volume of enemies in those encounters, there was no real grace or style to the trash fights.
While they may have felt trash fights in DA:O were lengthy and dull, I found myself getting bored alot faster with the repetative fast 'wave' style combat that didn't need thinking about than I did with the lengthier combat in Origins. I think they are on the right path but they should have aproached something in the middle of those two extremes.
I disliked the nerfs to the healing spells, they took away alot of healing spells and then extended the cooldown on the one universal healing spell to something you could use once (maybe twice on a boss fight) but somehow this didn't matter as I found I didn't need a healer for most of the game... To me I don't think of that as a good thing, you can tell that there is something wrong with combat where you don't need a healer or a well timed healing spell to survive the combat encounter.
Companions; they did alot right here, they kept the banter between party members, I liked my companions and their skills and abilities and did like taking each and every one of them with me rather than just leave them behind, I loved that they had their own lives and places to hang out rather than sit around a camp-fire while I'm off risking my neck. I liked that I couldn't just max out friendships by giving them gifts or talking at the campfire but had to take them to places.
They had broad and rich personalities, we got to sample only a small amount of it though.
What Bioware got wrong here however was making it that unless you played as a mage you spent most of the game with only one healer (although you could get away with not needing a healer) the fact I wasn't able to talk to them when out and about, the way I was limited only to quest dialogue, they could have put in a few other conversations, things like with Origins where they would tell you about themselves and tell you more as you increased your standing with them, the love intrest dialogue, who's bright idea was it to remove the option to kiss infront of companions where you could experiance the others thoughts and opinions or discomfort, or the whole 'get in my tent woman' thing, they showed they could do the whole complex LI thing with Morrigan with all those different conversations leading up to it and after you've formed a relationship with her. I just want more conversations in DA2, I want to be able to talk to them when out and about, I loved what was done with companions, just give me more damnit.
The changes to the crafting system were brilliant, it did feel worthwhile and rewarding.
Junk, well it's been said before, but I think something more could have been done here. either crafting quests or items with a lore to them, or things that are junk that different Kirkwall merchants might be intrested in, this is the difficult one as they will never be able to make people happy on this, a small comprimise where junk gets a short discription and that there is less junk dropped could be a possible solution.
The game could have been longer, act 3 felt especially short (probably the huge amount of side quests in act 1 didn't help feeling there wasn't much going on in act 3 just what seemed like 5 or so quests). I actually would have liked to play more as Hawk and maybe spent time in that first year working on getting that early reputation, building up contacts with those crafters... Doing all those things eluded to but never seen or experianced.
Being fully voiced was for me the best thing of this game, if Origins was fully voiced I would play it all the time.
DA2 is a good game, it's better than alot of games out there, it's just not as good as Origins and not quite as good as the Mass Effect games, if some really good DLC is released that gives new areas and new maps, maybe a map pack that shakes up the existing recycled maps in DA2, maybe something that adjusts or addresses the big issues that people have, it would be a bold and daring step but could go far, or if they do something like Awakenings as I said before that makes the choices made actually matter and injects alot of further choice that has real impact in it, DA2 could easily be the game we were wanting and hoping for, it could maybe get brought up to being on the same level as Mass Effect 1+2 and just under Origins.
Modifié par mr fried, 30 mars 2011 - 12:25 .
#1454
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 02:27
Woodstock-TC
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- Members
- 346 messages
just one last thing to add about additional stuff i loved in DA2 as i was rather harsh in my first critics:
the game feels much more vivid and less as a fantasy stereotype. ok there are exceptions but overall the characters and their behaviors became muhc more vivid. we had htis in DAO as well with prince behlen partially and Logain. But here almost every main character in the plot has depth and stuggels with his decisions. thats COOL. i mean thats really cool !!
after completing DA2 now two times, i really would struggle playing again DA:O. I mean yes the tactical combat i loved, i still miss some epic parts (and added playtime), but besides repetition of levels (which really sux guys. dont be lazy!) it IS a step forward. There is lack black&white, more grey, up to the final decision which is super hard to make.
Fantastic. I mean really, keep up the work, but give yourself more time.
My initial reviews were rather negative, but overall from a "fun" factor and from a depth factor, dunno, i kindof like DA2 more now.... (completed original DA:O in total 16 times..)
My first rating was 3/10.. than after first palytrhough 6/10.. now i would give 8/10.
Im sorry with you guys as most users like me give reviews before actually getting an indepth feeling of the game and getting used to some of the changes.
ps. LOVED the femshep, eh, femhawk and malehawk default models. fantastic work & voice acting !! kudos to designer
the game feels much more vivid and less as a fantasy stereotype. ok there are exceptions but overall the characters and their behaviors became muhc more vivid. we had htis in DAO as well with prince behlen partially and Logain. But here almost every main character in the plot has depth and stuggels with his decisions. thats COOL. i mean thats really cool !!
after completing DA2 now two times, i really would struggle playing again DA:O. I mean yes the tactical combat i loved, i still miss some epic parts (and added playtime), but besides repetition of levels (which really sux guys. dont be lazy!) it IS a step forward. There is lack black&white, more grey, up to the final decision which is super hard to make.
Fantastic. I mean really, keep up the work, but give yourself more time.
My initial reviews were rather negative, but overall from a "fun" factor and from a depth factor, dunno, i kindof like DA2 more now.... (completed original DA:O in total 16 times..)
My first rating was 3/10.. than after first palytrhough 6/10.. now i would give 8/10.
Im sorry with you guys as most users like me give reviews before actually getting an indepth feeling of the game and getting used to some of the changes.
ps. LOVED the femshep, eh, femhawk and malehawk default models. fantastic work & voice acting !! kudos to designer
Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 30 mars 2011 - 07:15 .
#1455
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 03:11
Aireoth
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- Members
- 48 messages
I am all for sex and sexuality in games, hell I'd prefer to see it over violence (but its at its best with both). What bugs me in DA2's romances is the shear lazyness of it, they don't really have to like you, you don't really have to like them, doesn't matter if your male or female, everyones a bisexual wh*re.
Seriously, Western RPG's are to emulate life, thats always been the basic foundation from PnP to video games. Not everyone is a bisexual, some characters should be firm in their orientation, its more realistic that way.
Seriously, Western RPG's are to emulate life, thats always been the basic foundation from PnP to video games. Not everyone is a bisexual, some characters should be firm in their orientation, its more realistic that way.
#1456
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 03:24
AlfredJFK
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- Members
- 7 messages
XOGHunter246 wrote...
This game to me seemed like they was making it based on getting people to buy DLC content as we all know there are more plans for DLC in the future.
The Exiled Prince to me was just thought of last minute to turn a part of the game into a DLC for money. I think Sebastian was not really meant to be DLC content as he plays a part in the main story.
It seemed to me a half done game for money purposes this will be proven more when we see the kind of DLC they bring out.
My Thoughts exactly. I like DLC's, but I don't like it when they're just selling me a Skeleton of the Game, forcing me to buy the flesh seperately to get the real Game. That's the point when I decide to stop buying DLC's for this Game particularly (Especially when they are animating you to play DA:Legends for some additional Items, where they are making some extra money by selling you these Crowns. Is EA really that greedy? I suppose they are...).
So the first thing I would want from DA3 is that Bioware takes his time developing it - I want to see where their Ideas can lead to. I liked the new crafting System, the companions, dialogues and the Story, as well as the new Skill Trees, especially those of your companions. I'm sure they had a lot more great Ideas and I'm willing to wait for them. If DA3 is released anytime earlier than June 2013, I simply won't buy it.
Having said that, my second demand on DA3 kind of comes along with my first one: A more detailled World (which includes unique Icons for Items AND Item Descriptions, an explorable World-Map, unique Dungeons, less Bugs, at least SOME chances to actually affect the Story not just some surroundings and I would appreciate it if the many different injuries of DA:O were brought back. And so on... I just want some real depth!).
Last but not least: The Fights (especially the Exploding-Enemy-Finish) are coming out so over-excited, flustered and psyched up. It really forces me out of the Immersion. As some Posters already said, the Killing Moves in DA:O were so special, because they were staged in a special way apart from the "normal" fighting actions.
(I already posted this somewhere else, until I realized that people are majorly using this Post for their Criticism and Suggestions.)
Modifié par AlfredJFK, 30 mars 2011 - 03:43 .
#1457
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 03:32
AlfredJFK
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- Members
- 7 messages
ColdEnd wrote...
Also... what happened to the elves!?!?! Did someone decide... "hey, aliens are popular, let's make them look like a Grey Alien with big ears":alien: Aweful, just aweful. Somebody started morphing in photoshop and forgot when to stop. Bulbus heads, giraffe-like necks, spindely elongated fingers, collapsed shoulders, and bizaare popeye-like arms. Seriously! What is with the forearms of most male elves?! They're huge!
I've got to admit: I really liked the new Elves-Design! It's not that stereotypical as all the other Ones out there. Sometimes these Fairy-Designs of Elves in DA:O ans some other Games and Movies seem to me as if they rose from a 16-Year-Old's wet dream.
For me that was the big strength of DA2. They brought that old fashioned Fantasy Realm onto a whole new Level, which felt great.
#1458
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 04:13
VanTesla
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- Members
- 241 messages
The game did not have to take a decade if the majority of it is unplayable and has you doing nothing to better the story. Not enough character connection (especially with your family), companions like Anders should have been delt with sooner for obvious intentions, the white lily killer was not implemented as good as it could have been, the three year gap in your character doing nothing as champion while Meredith/Orsino war becomes out of control....
I felt like my character was being a moron in not trying to use his/her fame to end the fight early and get both Meredith and Orsino imprisoned for their crimes... Why could I not investigate the killers contact or who bought the idol that has a huge reason civil war took place? No one noticed Merediths new sword and that it had a aura...
I felt like my character was being a moron in not trying to use his/her fame to end the fight early and get both Meredith and Orsino imprisoned for their crimes... Why could I not investigate the killers contact or who bought the idol that has a huge reason civil war took place? No one noticed Merediths new sword and that it had a aura...
#1459
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 05:10
Terastar
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- Members
- 229 messages
I enjoyed the game alot. I like being able to import my game decisions but then change to a different character. I hate the Arishok battle it takes to long to win. I loved how my companions felt like they had a life outside of me. The hands on the characters looked really bad what happened? The maps looked reused. I don't mind the layouts being reused but change the scenery in some way to make it look different. Fenris mansion needs to be cleaned up after 3 years don't you think? My female has way TOO much swinging hips I could kill someone with them hip swings.
#1460
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 05:42
Moirnelithe
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- Members
- 395 messages
AlfredJFK wrote...
ColdEnd wrote...
Also... what happened to the elves!?!?! Did someone decide... "hey, aliens are popular, let's make them look like a Grey Alien with big ears":alien: Aweful, just aweful. Somebody started morphing in photoshop and forgot when to stop. Bulbus heads, giraffe-like necks, spindely elongated fingers, collapsed shoulders, and bizaare popeye-like arms. Seriously! What is with the forearms of most male elves?! They're huge!
I've got to admit: I really liked the new Elves-Design! It's not that stereotypical as all the other Ones out there. Sometimes these Fairy-Designs of Elves in DA:O ans some other Games and Movies seem to me as if they rose from a 16-Year-Old's wet dream.
For me that was the big strength of DA2. They brought that old fashioned Fantasy Realm onto a whole new Level, which felt great.
Oops something went wrong with quoting, anyway:
I liked how Merril and Fenris looked, but the other elves look nothing like that. It's the noses mostly, it does make elves look like they come straight from area 51... Zevran stands out as being the ugliest among them, maybe they did that on purpose as a joke as he's supposed to be this charmer. Anyway the lore refers to elves as beautiful to humans and right now...I don't see it. (I didn't see it in DAO either though, they're all anorexic there)
Modifié par Evainelithe, 30 mars 2011 - 05:43 .
#1461
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 06:10
Sandmanifest
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- Members
- 134 messages
What I disliked:
1. Re-used maps, enemy waves seemed to be just thrown at you while DA:O was more tactical (Genlock would lure, ect)
2. Exploding enemies all over the place (big complaint)
3. My decisions had very little to no impact on events that took place. Same boss fights even if illogical, same order.
4. I believe you did not have to sacrifice the epic feel of the story to make it more personal.
- I think the next game should give you a wide land to explore, the city seemed stagnant and claustrophobic to me.
5. I feel the story could have been delivered in a better way, it felt splintered and disconnected the way it was.
- The idea of the story itself wasn't bad, just needed work on the presentation possibly.
6. I disliked the combat. I like party system though (Tank, Healer, DPS, DPS) I wouldn't want to lose that, but I'm sure there is a sweet spot between DA:O and DA2 (enemies not exploding into peices is a start).
7. GET RID OF THE TRASH CAN ITEMS. I roll my eyes every time I get some. They are completely pointless and just a random form of currency you have to sell. It takes away my immersion. Playing Origins after DA2 was particularly refreshing, and it had a lot to do with this.
8. Hurlocks looked more devious/scary and intelligent in DA:O. Here they look a bit like braindead zombie monkey skeletons.
9. There are other minor complaints (weather, ect) but thats most of it for me.
What I liked:
1. Lip movements to words were absolutely amazing.
2. Character models and badass enemy character models as always Dragon Age (EXCEPT DARKSPAWN)
3. Physical character creation in this game was the best I have ever seen in an rpg. I actually used hair.
4. Qunari were awesome, loved their culture.
5. Pouring through the codex was fun.
6. Enjoyed Mage vs. Templar rivalry story (even if it could have been delivered better, as I said.
That about wraps it up. Thank you for any time you spent reading this and I hope it is taken into consideration.
Panahedon.
1. Re-used maps, enemy waves seemed to be just thrown at you while DA:O was more tactical (Genlock would lure, ect)
2. Exploding enemies all over the place (big complaint)
3. My decisions had very little to no impact on events that took place. Same boss fights even if illogical, same order.
4. I believe you did not have to sacrifice the epic feel of the story to make it more personal.
- I think the next game should give you a wide land to explore, the city seemed stagnant and claustrophobic to me.
5. I feel the story could have been delivered in a better way, it felt splintered and disconnected the way it was.
- The idea of the story itself wasn't bad, just needed work on the presentation possibly.
6. I disliked the combat. I like party system though (Tank, Healer, DPS, DPS) I wouldn't want to lose that, but I'm sure there is a sweet spot between DA:O and DA2 (enemies not exploding into peices is a start).
7. GET RID OF THE TRASH CAN ITEMS. I roll my eyes every time I get some. They are completely pointless and just a random form of currency you have to sell. It takes away my immersion. Playing Origins after DA2 was particularly refreshing, and it had a lot to do with this.
8. Hurlocks looked more devious/scary and intelligent in DA:O. Here they look a bit like braindead zombie monkey skeletons.
9. There are other minor complaints (weather, ect) but thats most of it for me.
What I liked:
1. Lip movements to words were absolutely amazing.
2. Character models and badass enemy character models as always Dragon Age (EXCEPT DARKSPAWN)
3. Physical character creation in this game was the best I have ever seen in an rpg. I actually used hair.
4. Qunari were awesome, loved their culture.
5. Pouring through the codex was fun.
6. Enjoyed Mage vs. Templar rivalry story (even if it could have been delivered better, as I said.
That about wraps it up. Thank you for any time you spent reading this and I hope it is taken into consideration.
Panahedon.
Modifié par Sandmanifest, 30 mars 2011 - 06:15 .
#1462
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 07:51
catabuca
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- Members
- 3 229 messages
Overview:
I'm seriously incapable of brevity, I apologise in advance. I'm playing on 360. If I had to pick one over the other, DA2 wins out over DAO for me. Storytelling has always been the most important part of games for me, but in DA2 I've come to appreciate certain gameplay and combat aspects a lot more as well, since they are improved so greatly in this game. My main criticisms come in terms of chopped up and ill-defined main plot quests, and a lack of interaction with companions (specifically LIs). Almost everything else is (hopefully constructive) praise. Of all I write, the final paragraph is, to me, the most important.
I've split my reviews up into 2 main areas, but some of it could easily be in both sections. Sorry if it doesn't make sense. I rarely do.
Gameplay & Mechanics: (this is my weakest area so feedback may not be that useful, apologies.)
classes and Combat: I completely related to what people called the 'shuffling' in Origins, and that has been eliminated in 2. I like the way the classes feel different, from controller feedback right through to the animations. A DW rogue feels fast & furious, crazy at times, and while it may not be everyone's cup of tea I think it's important as it makes a distinction between it and a warrior, for example. The weight behind a 2H warrior's swings is impressive, and they aren't too slow (like I feared when playing the demo). A mage is fantastic fun to play, but also great for standing back and strategising, controlling the whole battle. I expect archer will be similar, but with a bit of wallop behind their arrows. I think the changes to classes has been a positive one in this regard. For once, I'm interested in playing them all.
The skills trees are greatly improved, and each feels more unique. I rarely have to take a spell or talent I don't want, and there is enough diversity to specialise in a couple of branches and build the character you want. In Origins it felt like you chose the same talents over and over, and had little control, but here you could build Fenris from one run to the next with substantially different talents and to fulfill a different role in the party -- that freedom is a great positive.
I love the speed of combat now. I set my radial wheel to toggle open/closed, and found I was pausing with almost every attack (until I ran out of stamina/mana) to survey the battle and issue the orders I wanted. In Origins I rarely did that because the combat just did nothing for me. Combat is fun and satisfying.
Inventory, Armour & Crafting: Overall the changes here were great. I found my inventory far easier to manage this time around, probably because of the change to 'loot' and the crafting system. The crafting system is excellent, and I hope this sort of approach is maintained in future games.
I was more than happy not being able to outfit my companions in armour. Upgrading them with runes, amulets, belts and rings was enough for me, and surprisingly I wasn't bothered that their look didn't change either (outside the one or two who did due to plot-specific reasons). I do wish I would have been able to outfit them with weapons/upgrades from my home like we could in camp in Origins, so I didn't have to keep adding and removing them from my party before each inventory sell-off. That's a small matter though, since you could add and remove at any of the 'companion hubs' like the Hanged Man.
The star system for amulets, rings and belts needs some tweaking though. When I had Ring A and Ring B, and A had +7 health and 1 star, but B had +7 health and 5 stars, there was nothing to explain to me why ring B would have been better than ring A. Was it worth buying ring B, or should I stick with ring A and save some cash? For weapons and armour the star system was a quick way of scanning down your inventory and junking whatever had less stars than your current gear, and investigating the stats of anything that had more, but for rings, amulets and belts it seemed incredibly confusing as the stats often contradicted the star rating.
Maps: I may be a lone voice on this issue, but I didn't have as much of a problem with the recycled areas as many do. I completely agree it would have been nice to have more varied caves, dungeons and tunnels, but it certainly isn't a game-breaker for me.
Kirkwall seemed to provide plenty of individual areas to visit, so I didn't feel like I was cooped up in one place all the time, but on multiple runs it can feel a touch claustrophobic, so perhaps another extra main hub, along the lines of a village or something, may have been nice. Or perhaps extending Sundermount or the Wounded Coast to feel more like real areas you could visit outside of quests.
I liked how Kirkwall felt different in terms of lighting in each act. It was one of the things I noticed and loved, being in Hightown at the beginning of act 3 and the light was just beautiful. I really appreciated that attention to detail. I also liked how areas changed depending on whether you were there during the day or night (like the disused passage in the Docks being open at night), and I liked the gangs roaming around at night.
Art Direction: I love the direction 2 has gone in. Kirkwall is beautiful, there is far more colour throughout the world. I thought the facial animations were great. I played ME2's Arrival last night, and I was shaken by how bad the lip-synching was compared to DA2's. I prefer DA2's stylised approach to DAO's attempt at realism, which just looked forced and odd. I also prefer the new UI over DAO's, and find it far easier to stare at over lengthy play sessions. It may not be in keeping with a 'traditional' fantasy theme, but I found DAO's too fussy, so I'm happy.
Dialogue Wheel: I love it. The inclusion of icons was a great idea, and prevents all that nasty ninjamancing so many people complain about in Origins (and Mass Effect). I have a feeling the way Hawke's responses alter due to your dialogue stance is a lot more nuanced than we may appreciate through an average run. In a way, it's a shame something like this is hidden under the hood, because it's one of the great things we are under-appreciating because we don't realise it's there. My sarcastic!Hawke (who never fails to make me cringe) is a completely different person to my angry!Hawke, and it's apparent not only through my actively choosing particular dialogues, but in cutscenes because of the way those consistent dialogue choices weight and build up through the game. Superb.
Story & Storytelling: (this is the most important part of a game for me, so I'll have lots to say)
Friendship/Rivalry:While I think the friendship/rivalry system is a huge improvement over the DAO system, I still find myself metagaming with it. That's not a bad thing per se, since I'm a chronic metagamer and wouldn't have it any other way, but I still feel like there's no middle ground for a Hawke who can't make up his mind -- it seems to be all or nothing or you don't max out your companions (well some of them). I'm not sure what the solution to that would be, since every alignment system I've played has the same pitfalls. At least this one has rivalry and friendship on an equal footing.
Acts & Quest Structure: I found Varric's framed narrative to work really well. I liked being taken out of the action every so often and being told how what I was doing in the game was relating more widely. It anchored the individual quests in a larger story, although that was only being revealed a little at a time. In fact, I thought more could have been made of this aspect of the game to give more context to your actions.
DAO's 'four big grindy quests, a choice, an end battle' bored me by the end. It works well for storytelling to an extent, and the Landsmeet was some of the best writing I've played through, but getting there was tedious as hell. I appreciated DA2's attempt to break this template and provide lots of shorter quests and split them between main, secondary, companion, and side-quests.
However, I did find myself wishing there could have been a happy medium. It felt at times like even the main quests were nothing but a series of side-quests, without anything that made them stand out as special or more important to the game. Because so many side and secondary quests involved the Mage/Templar issue, which in itself was a good thing as it provided a game world centered heavily around this one question, there was little to distinguish why the main plot was, indeed, the main plot. I think the story - which seems to get quite a bit of flak - may have held together better had there been a handful of slightly longer main plot quests in each act (but not as long as the blighted deep roads from DAO *shudder*), rather than the piecemeal approach.
On my 3rd run and I'm still finding new quests because of different imports, which is great. The 'fetch' quests, where you inexplicably return things to people, are odd, and while they are a nice boost to your cash and XP, I find them too weird and ... jarring I suppose, that I wish there had been another way.
I love how the ends of each 3 acts involves various companions in surprising ways (surprising the first time you play it at least), but find that Aveline, Varric, Fenris and Merrill feel a little left out because of it. It might have been nice to have similar plot-crucial roles for them as well.
I don't know what to think of the time skips. They were clearly necessary to tell the story you wanted to tell, but I feel they could have been handled better. Perhaps 3 year skips was too long? I felt a little disconnected from my companions after each one.
Companions & Romances: ^^ Which brings me to the companions. I have a lot to say (as you can tell) about other aspects of the game, but companions are always the most important. Companions are what make my PC feel a part of the world and not some lone computer sprite, so I value their inclusion and development beyond most other things.
Companion banter is utterly excellent. At the beginning of run #3 I was still hearing new banter between Varric, Fen and Anders, despite having lugged them around the majority of the time in my previous 2 games. It makes them feel more like real people, and gives you a bit of an insight into what their lives might be like when you're not with them. I hope this is an area ME borrows from, and that continues to be improved upon in future games.
Even though only your sibling, Isabela and Anders had specific roles in the end of act plots, I felt that each companion was tied in sufficiently interesting ways to the main plot overall that they felt like more than just people you keep around to kill things. Their involvement could have an influence on how Hawke sees the world just as Hawke could influence them, and that was great to see. I thought Carver's story worked better than Bethany's, despite her link to the main Mage plot more directly. I liked what happened to Hawke's mother, but would like to have felt the impact on Hawke's psyche more vividly. Hawke's had a pretty crappy life, all told -- more might have been made of that.
This next part applies to all companions, but perhaps specifically the LI choices. Overall I like the change to a paced story, where your dialogue with companions is scripted in a way that it happens more or less at specific points in the story. This eliminates the problem many of us ended up with in Origins, where we rushed through all the dialogue in camp early on and had nothing left to say. This system feels more organic, although, ironically, it clearly is less organic since it's scripted. And of course, it had to work this way in order for the time skips and character progression to make sense. The cutscenes with companions when you visit them are excellent, and a huge improvement over standing oddly in one spot in camp randomly probing them with questions. Again it makes them feel more real.
Clearly the romances were written to progress over this longer time period as well, and it would not have made sense had we been able to rush ahead and make kissy with them in act 1. Having a more structured romance meant those scenes could be significantly different from one another and feel more like a real love story than just trying to get into someone's pants as soon as possible. That said, there simply isn't enough interaction, with all companions but specifically LIs. I feel like if there had just been a couple more opportunities per act to talk with your LI, perhaps for the player to initiate a conversation along the lines of DAO's camp talks, but within the confines of the scripted nature of their romances, it would have made it felt like you were getting to know them better, and also put a little control back in the hands of the player. As it is, the romances are completely out of the hands of the player, in that they happen as and when the story requires. That is understandable given the narrative structure, but a few moments of being able to chat, perhaps an LI-specific quest in each act, and the opportunity to steal a kiss with your LI in act 2 or 3, would have gone a long way. As it was, if Anders hadn't been standing on my balcony throughout act 3 I might have forgotten Hawke was supposed to be in a long-term relationship with him. I don't feel the romance writing did enough to make me or Hawke feel attached to these characters to a greater extent than the rest of the companions. I have almost exactly the same dialogue with Fenris when I'm not romancing him as when I do, bar a few lines. And I felt like Hawke had more interaction with Aveline throughout the game than the person he was supposed to be in love with.
Despite all this, I am completely bowled over with adoration for you (and other equally gushing phrases) that all romances were opened up to be available to all types of player and both genders of Hawke. BW (Mass Effect aside *grumble*) has led the way in including content for gay and bisexual gamers, or those who would like to play a gay/bi PC, and are well regarded critically within and without gaming circles because of it. To give gay gamers (or gay PCs) a chance to experience the same content as straight gamers (or PCs) is truly wonderful. The point here is 'choice'. Now gay gamers have a 'choice', an actual choice, of who their PC might like to pursue a relationship with. While one can make statements about it being a positive move for social inclusion and it sending a positive message to the LGBT community, on a very simple gaming level, it offers the maximum amount of choice to the maximum amount of players for relatively little extra cost (as I understand it). Despite my general grumpiness towards the way this has been handled within the ME franchise, the way you have decided to implement this in DA2 has made me one of your biggest fans, and I won't stop proclaiming loudly to anyone who will listen how fantastic this is. I only hope this is a sign of things to come, and not a one-off experiment. Because this is an overwhelmingly positive move, and the gaming community is only ever going to become comfortable with such content if they are exposed to it and it is viewed as 'normal'. I like to think BW is, in their own way, helping inch towards a brighter future.
I'm seriously incapable of brevity, I apologise in advance. I'm playing on 360. If I had to pick one over the other, DA2 wins out over DAO for me. Storytelling has always been the most important part of games for me, but in DA2 I've come to appreciate certain gameplay and combat aspects a lot more as well, since they are improved so greatly in this game. My main criticisms come in terms of chopped up and ill-defined main plot quests, and a lack of interaction with companions (specifically LIs). Almost everything else is (hopefully constructive) praise. Of all I write, the final paragraph is, to me, the most important.
I've split my reviews up into 2 main areas, but some of it could easily be in both sections. Sorry if it doesn't make sense. I rarely do.
Gameplay & Mechanics: (this is my weakest area so feedback may not be that useful, apologies.)
classes and Combat: I completely related to what people called the 'shuffling' in Origins, and that has been eliminated in 2. I like the way the classes feel different, from controller feedback right through to the animations. A DW rogue feels fast & furious, crazy at times, and while it may not be everyone's cup of tea I think it's important as it makes a distinction between it and a warrior, for example. The weight behind a 2H warrior's swings is impressive, and they aren't too slow (like I feared when playing the demo). A mage is fantastic fun to play, but also great for standing back and strategising, controlling the whole battle. I expect archer will be similar, but with a bit of wallop behind their arrows. I think the changes to classes has been a positive one in this regard. For once, I'm interested in playing them all.
The skills trees are greatly improved, and each feels more unique. I rarely have to take a spell or talent I don't want, and there is enough diversity to specialise in a couple of branches and build the character you want. In Origins it felt like you chose the same talents over and over, and had little control, but here you could build Fenris from one run to the next with substantially different talents and to fulfill a different role in the party -- that freedom is a great positive.
I love the speed of combat now. I set my radial wheel to toggle open/closed, and found I was pausing with almost every attack (until I ran out of stamina/mana) to survey the battle and issue the orders I wanted. In Origins I rarely did that because the combat just did nothing for me. Combat is fun and satisfying.
Inventory, Armour & Crafting: Overall the changes here were great. I found my inventory far easier to manage this time around, probably because of the change to 'loot' and the crafting system. The crafting system is excellent, and I hope this sort of approach is maintained in future games.
I was more than happy not being able to outfit my companions in armour. Upgrading them with runes, amulets, belts and rings was enough for me, and surprisingly I wasn't bothered that their look didn't change either (outside the one or two who did due to plot-specific reasons). I do wish I would have been able to outfit them with weapons/upgrades from my home like we could in camp in Origins, so I didn't have to keep adding and removing them from my party before each inventory sell-off. That's a small matter though, since you could add and remove at any of the 'companion hubs' like the Hanged Man.
The star system for amulets, rings and belts needs some tweaking though. When I had Ring A and Ring B, and A had +7 health and 1 star, but B had +7 health and 5 stars, there was nothing to explain to me why ring B would have been better than ring A. Was it worth buying ring B, or should I stick with ring A and save some cash? For weapons and armour the star system was a quick way of scanning down your inventory and junking whatever had less stars than your current gear, and investigating the stats of anything that had more, but for rings, amulets and belts it seemed incredibly confusing as the stats often contradicted the star rating.
Maps: I may be a lone voice on this issue, but I didn't have as much of a problem with the recycled areas as many do. I completely agree it would have been nice to have more varied caves, dungeons and tunnels, but it certainly isn't a game-breaker for me.
Kirkwall seemed to provide plenty of individual areas to visit, so I didn't feel like I was cooped up in one place all the time, but on multiple runs it can feel a touch claustrophobic, so perhaps another extra main hub, along the lines of a village or something, may have been nice. Or perhaps extending Sundermount or the Wounded Coast to feel more like real areas you could visit outside of quests.
I liked how Kirkwall felt different in terms of lighting in each act. It was one of the things I noticed and loved, being in Hightown at the beginning of act 3 and the light was just beautiful. I really appreciated that attention to detail. I also liked how areas changed depending on whether you were there during the day or night (like the disused passage in the Docks being open at night), and I liked the gangs roaming around at night.
Art Direction: I love the direction 2 has gone in. Kirkwall is beautiful, there is far more colour throughout the world. I thought the facial animations were great. I played ME2's Arrival last night, and I was shaken by how bad the lip-synching was compared to DA2's. I prefer DA2's stylised approach to DAO's attempt at realism, which just looked forced and odd. I also prefer the new UI over DAO's, and find it far easier to stare at over lengthy play sessions. It may not be in keeping with a 'traditional' fantasy theme, but I found DAO's too fussy, so I'm happy.
Dialogue Wheel: I love it. The inclusion of icons was a great idea, and prevents all that nasty ninjamancing so many people complain about in Origins (and Mass Effect). I have a feeling the way Hawke's responses alter due to your dialogue stance is a lot more nuanced than we may appreciate through an average run. In a way, it's a shame something like this is hidden under the hood, because it's one of the great things we are under-appreciating because we don't realise it's there. My sarcastic!Hawke (who never fails to make me cringe) is a completely different person to my angry!Hawke, and it's apparent not only through my actively choosing particular dialogues, but in cutscenes because of the way those consistent dialogue choices weight and build up through the game. Superb.
Story & Storytelling: (this is the most important part of a game for me, so I'll have lots to say
)Friendship/Rivalry:While I think the friendship/rivalry system is a huge improvement over the DAO system, I still find myself metagaming with it. That's not a bad thing per se, since I'm a chronic metagamer and wouldn't have it any other way, but I still feel like there's no middle ground for a Hawke who can't make up his mind -- it seems to be all or nothing or you don't max out your companions (well some of them). I'm not sure what the solution to that would be, since every alignment system I've played has the same pitfalls. At least this one has rivalry and friendship on an equal footing.
Acts & Quest Structure: I found Varric's framed narrative to work really well. I liked being taken out of the action every so often and being told how what I was doing in the game was relating more widely. It anchored the individual quests in a larger story, although that was only being revealed a little at a time. In fact, I thought more could have been made of this aspect of the game to give more context to your actions.
DAO's 'four big grindy quests, a choice, an end battle' bored me by the end. It works well for storytelling to an extent, and the Landsmeet was some of the best writing I've played through, but getting there was tedious as hell. I appreciated DA2's attempt to break this template and provide lots of shorter quests and split them between main, secondary, companion, and side-quests.
However, I did find myself wishing there could have been a happy medium. It felt at times like even the main quests were nothing but a series of side-quests, without anything that made them stand out as special or more important to the game. Because so many side and secondary quests involved the Mage/Templar issue, which in itself was a good thing as it provided a game world centered heavily around this one question, there was little to distinguish why the main plot was, indeed, the main plot. I think the story - which seems to get quite a bit of flak - may have held together better had there been a handful of slightly longer main plot quests in each act (but not as long as the blighted deep roads from DAO *shudder*), rather than the piecemeal approach.
On my 3rd run and I'm still finding new quests because of different imports, which is great. The 'fetch' quests, where you inexplicably return things to people, are odd, and while they are a nice boost to your cash and XP, I find them too weird and ... jarring I suppose, that I wish there had been another way.
I love how the ends of each 3 acts involves various companions in surprising ways (surprising the first time you play it at least), but find that Aveline, Varric, Fenris and Merrill feel a little left out because of it. It might have been nice to have similar plot-crucial roles for them as well.
I don't know what to think of the time skips. They were clearly necessary to tell the story you wanted to tell, but I feel they could have been handled better. Perhaps 3 year skips was too long? I felt a little disconnected from my companions after each one.
Companions & Romances: ^^ Which brings me to the companions. I have a lot to say (as you can tell) about other aspects of the game, but companions are always the most important. Companions are what make my PC feel a part of the world and not some lone computer sprite, so I value their inclusion and development beyond most other things.
Companion banter is utterly excellent. At the beginning of run #3 I was still hearing new banter between Varric, Fen and Anders, despite having lugged them around the majority of the time in my previous 2 games. It makes them feel more like real people, and gives you a bit of an insight into what their lives might be like when you're not with them. I hope this is an area ME borrows from, and that continues to be improved upon in future games.
Even though only your sibling, Isabela and Anders had specific roles in the end of act plots, I felt that each companion was tied in sufficiently interesting ways to the main plot overall that they felt like more than just people you keep around to kill things. Their involvement could have an influence on how Hawke sees the world just as Hawke could influence them, and that was great to see. I thought Carver's story worked better than Bethany's, despite her link to the main Mage plot more directly. I liked what happened to Hawke's mother, but would like to have felt the impact on Hawke's psyche more vividly. Hawke's had a pretty crappy life, all told -- more might have been made of that.
This next part applies to all companions, but perhaps specifically the LI choices. Overall I like the change to a paced story, where your dialogue with companions is scripted in a way that it happens more or less at specific points in the story. This eliminates the problem many of us ended up with in Origins, where we rushed through all the dialogue in camp early on and had nothing left to say. This system feels more organic, although, ironically, it clearly is less organic since it's scripted. And of course, it had to work this way in order for the time skips and character progression to make sense. The cutscenes with companions when you visit them are excellent, and a huge improvement over standing oddly in one spot in camp randomly probing them with questions. Again it makes them feel more real.
Clearly the romances were written to progress over this longer time period as well, and it would not have made sense had we been able to rush ahead and make kissy with them in act 1. Having a more structured romance meant those scenes could be significantly different from one another and feel more like a real love story than just trying to get into someone's pants as soon as possible. That said, there simply isn't enough interaction, with all companions but specifically LIs. I feel like if there had just been a couple more opportunities per act to talk with your LI, perhaps for the player to initiate a conversation along the lines of DAO's camp talks, but within the confines of the scripted nature of their romances, it would have made it felt like you were getting to know them better, and also put a little control back in the hands of the player. As it is, the romances are completely out of the hands of the player, in that they happen as and when the story requires. That is understandable given the narrative structure, but a few moments of being able to chat, perhaps an LI-specific quest in each act, and the opportunity to steal a kiss with your LI in act 2 or 3, would have gone a long way. As it was, if Anders hadn't been standing on my balcony throughout act 3 I might have forgotten Hawke was supposed to be in a long-term relationship with him. I don't feel the romance writing did enough to make me or Hawke feel attached to these characters to a greater extent than the rest of the companions. I have almost exactly the same dialogue with Fenris when I'm not romancing him as when I do, bar a few lines. And I felt like Hawke had more interaction with Aveline throughout the game than the person he was supposed to be in love with.
Despite all this, I am completely bowled over with adoration for you (and other equally gushing phrases) that all romances were opened up to be available to all types of player and both genders of Hawke. BW (Mass Effect aside *grumble*) has led the way in including content for gay and bisexual gamers, or those who would like to play a gay/bi PC, and are well regarded critically within and without gaming circles because of it. To give gay gamers (or gay PCs) a chance to experience the same content as straight gamers (or PCs) is truly wonderful. The point here is 'choice'. Now gay gamers have a 'choice', an actual choice, of who their PC might like to pursue a relationship with. While one can make statements about it being a positive move for social inclusion and it sending a positive message to the LGBT community, on a very simple gaming level, it offers the maximum amount of choice to the maximum amount of players for relatively little extra cost (as I understand it). Despite my general grumpiness towards the way this has been handled within the ME franchise, the way you have decided to implement this in DA2 has made me one of your biggest fans, and I won't stop proclaiming loudly to anyone who will listen how fantastic this is. I only hope this is a sign of things to come, and not a one-off experiment. Because this is an overwhelmingly positive move, and the gaming community is only ever going to become comfortable with such content if they are exposed to it and it is viewed as 'normal'. I like to think BW is, in their own way, helping inch towards a brighter future.
Modifié par catabuca, 30 mars 2011 - 08:13 .
#1463
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 08:05
Siansonea
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- Members
- 7 282 messages
My suggestions, based on 1 completed playthrough and several started playthroughs:
1) Implement the ability to replay an existing character after completing the game, and have other 'rewards' for starting a new character after completing the game.
2) Improve graphics quality and resolution across the board. Improve wireframe models to have more or better polygons, especially in environments.
3) Implement a "skip combat" button for players who prefer to focus on the story aspect of the game.
4) More variety in environments, and more unique environments. Re-using elements of existing environments is okay, but change them up so they aren't identical. Flip the orientation, re-color, recombine sections, change the lighting, do whatever it takes to make it feel like a new place.
5) Keep the dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist.
6) More of everything: More options for character creation, more missions, more interaction with people, more story elements. More of the stuff that I enjoy.
7) Less pointless combat. Of course a "skip combat" button would solve this problem.
8) Keep implementing same-sex LI options. Not everyone who roleplays wants to roleplay themselves, so it's important to realize that these options aren't just for LGBT players, but for all players who like variety in their characters. Definitely expand on LI content, but also expand friendship interaction content for non-LI characters. Games like this are at their best when you're talking to people, and you care about what they have to say. Games like this live and die at the writer's desk, and that should be the guiding factor for everything else.
1) Implement the ability to replay an existing character after completing the game, and have other 'rewards' for starting a new character after completing the game.
2) Improve graphics quality and resolution across the board. Improve wireframe models to have more or better polygons, especially in environments.
3) Implement a "skip combat" button for players who prefer to focus on the story aspect of the game.
4) More variety in environments, and more unique environments. Re-using elements of existing environments is okay, but change them up so they aren't identical. Flip the orientation, re-color, recombine sections, change the lighting, do whatever it takes to make it feel like a new place.
5) Keep the dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist.
6) More of everything: More options for character creation, more missions, more interaction with people, more story elements. More of the stuff that I enjoy.
7) Less pointless combat. Of course a "skip combat" button would solve this problem.
8) Keep implementing same-sex LI options. Not everyone who roleplays wants to roleplay themselves, so it's important to realize that these options aren't just for LGBT players, but for all players who like variety in their characters. Definitely expand on LI content, but also expand friendship interaction content for non-LI characters. Games like this are at their best when you're talking to people, and you care about what they have to say. Games like this live and die at the writer's desk, and that should be the guiding factor for everything else.
#1464
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 08:07
mr fried
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#1465
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 09:01
XOGHunter246
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- 1 537 messages
AlfredJFK wrote...
Having said that, my second demand on DA3 kind of comes along with my first one: A more detailled World (which includes unique Icons for Items AND Item Descriptions, an explorable World-Map, unique Dungeons, less Bugs, at least SOME chances to actually affect the Story not just some surroundings and I would appreciate it if the many different injuries of DA:O were brought back. And so on... I just want some real depth!).
Glad another person has said this too I said a few post back about the junk having no pictures It is very minor thats the point so minor Bioware could of done this. I like DAO when you could compare items to decide before you loot places if you need them, then having to pause game and look through all you other items I cannot do this on console.
So many minor things that Bioware should of known to put in DA2 if I notice it not there espesially if it was in the previous game and there was no negative feedback from it.
I really hope they take a long look at this trend and actually take some consideration of the advice/Ideas and listen especially for the major bugs.
Modifié par XOGHunter246, 30 mars 2011 - 09:03 .
#1466
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 09:24
darknoon5
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Just posting here. (to clarify I have played DA: O but I don't have the copy anymore so I can't register it here. I'll probably get another some day.)
I'd give the game 8.5/10. It's got a very good set of characters both in and out the party, a less cliche plot, and plenty of interesting decisions.
However, just as I'm sure pretty much every other person has said, the third act felt rushed. As in waaaay too rushed, especially compared to act 2.
Obviously bugs were annoying. I experienced a bug with Merrill that ruined her 2nd companiuon quest before I even played it. Oodles of graphical bugs. Bugs can be fixed and aren't intentional, though. My real problem is that this game tries to be too much like mass effect 2 with few of the strengths and many of the weaknesses.
The big problem is the repetitive enviroments. The sidequests alone are quite good, but they are made 100times more repetitve and less interesting with that exact same cave and exact same map with irrelevant areas boxed off with a slab of rock. Considering the game takes place in 1 city and the free marshes, I was expecting a huge, intersting and characteristic city full of life, and unique enviroments. Unfortunately not.
I also miss the scale of the story from DA: O. Sure, it had a clche story that followed the bioware story ark set by jade empire and kotor (player joins secret order, all or most that order already or soon become wiped out) but it was definetly more epic than DA2's.
I'd give the game 8.5/10. It's got a very good set of characters both in and out the party, a less cliche plot, and plenty of interesting decisions.
However, just as I'm sure pretty much every other person has said, the third act felt rushed. As in waaaay too rushed, especially compared to act 2.
Obviously bugs were annoying. I experienced a bug with Merrill that ruined her 2nd companiuon quest before I even played it. Oodles of graphical bugs. Bugs can be fixed and aren't intentional, though. My real problem is that this game tries to be too much like mass effect 2 with few of the strengths and many of the weaknesses.
The big problem is the repetitive enviroments. The sidequests alone are quite good, but they are made 100times more repetitve and less interesting with that exact same cave and exact same map with irrelevant areas boxed off with a slab of rock. Considering the game takes place in 1 city and the free marshes, I was expecting a huge, intersting and characteristic city full of life, and unique enviroments. Unfortunately not.
I also miss the scale of the story from DA: O. Sure, it had a clche story that followed the bioware story ark set by jade empire and kotor (player joins secret order, all or most that order already or soon become wiped out) but it was definetly more epic than DA2's.
Modifié par darknoon5, 30 mars 2011 - 09:25 .
#1467
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 09:37
John Epler
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- BioWare Employees
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- 3 390 messages
Just to update - we are still reading this thread! I haven't been able to respond lately due to being fairly busy all around, but everything's still being taken into consideration and still being collated.
So if you have feedback, don't hesitate to post it here
Thanks everyone!
So if you have feedback, don't hesitate to post it here
Thanks everyone!
#1468
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 09:46
Aireoth
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- 48 messages
I would like to see the RPG elements brought back. In particular the usefulness of all character stats and social skills.
The combat is better then DAO, but it would be made even better if exploding bodies where eliminated and finishers bought back. Perhaps instead of generic exploding bodies, limbs would be cut off by swords, and body parts crushed by hammers?
Bring the darkspawn back, not in plot, but in texture and animation, make them scary and threatening again.
Lastly involve the player in the plot, rather then making us an active observer, I don't need to be the central figure (grey warden) but I don't want to feel like a fly on the wall either.
The combat is better then DAO, but it would be made even better if exploding bodies where eliminated and finishers bought back. Perhaps instead of generic exploding bodies, limbs would be cut off by swords, and body parts crushed by hammers?
Bring the darkspawn back, not in plot, but in texture and animation, make them scary and threatening again.
Lastly involve the player in the plot, rather then making us an active observer, I don't need to be the central figure (grey warden) but I don't want to feel like a fly on the wall either.
#1469
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 10:25
Furtled
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- 426 messages
Mage specific
Just finished a mage playthrough (which was ridiculously fun combat wise, if a bit one button mashy, so kudos for that - about the only time exploding enemies made sense), like others have said Hawke's status as Champion makes sense as a form of protection from the Templars, but prior to that it's a bit of a plot canyon; especially as various characters mention what the PC is and caution them on provoking the authorities. On the upside the final letter in the setting up a Templar quest still makes me laugh.
General plot
My previous points on escaping Lothering, companion/family interaction and Act 3 stand, but (much as I love the whole Quanari plot) Act 2 has a bit of a plot flaw too in that you've got no idea what Hawke actually does once they get back from the Deep Roads. On my first playthrough I thought the response you gave to Varric might set a path for what they would do so gave the choice some serious consideration - only to see no difference in a second playthrough with a different response. This carried through to Act 3 as there still wasn't even a vague sense of what the PC was up to outside of wandering the city helping/blackmailing/killing/flirting with people. Feels like it would have been better to have some sort of overarching 'rise to power' backplot instead of the unrelated side quests.
There were other quests/interactions (including one remarkably creepy one in Act 1) that seemed like they were setting up for something else that turned out to have no impact either - that really surprised me for a game from you guys.
Overall it's a passable enough game, the visuals (glaringly out of place UI style aside) are gorgeous, voice acting, music etc. top quality; but it feels a little lost and ocassionally soulless/grindy. I get the whole 'life's what happens when you're making plans' feel to the story, but it wanders off track too much and you lose the connection to the characters due to that and the lack of additional interaction.
Minor Anders specific point
Would have liked a dialogue option to let the poor s*d down gently so he doesn't have a rage attack. It was nice to have one of the LI's be the initiator, but given the dialogue options his only available response is a bit alarming/OTT. To steal from another thread though I love the fact that all the LIs are 'Hawkesexual' and available to the PC whichever sex you play.
Crafting
I'm not too fussed on the crafting changes (being able to order things from shops/home was nice) but please, for the love of all things holy, in the next one don't hide essential ingredients in specific side missions players may not even get to play.
Side-characters
Cullen, Thrask, Emeric etc. were great, however I missed the sense of a living breathing world that you got in DA:O from characters like Wade and the two sisters outside the Denerim chantry. The sparse population of Kirkwall and re-use of character models didn't help either. I get that all of this type of thing adds to the cost and work involved in making the game but it's those sort of little touches that really brought things to life for me before and really aided immersion.
Best of luck!
Just finished a mage playthrough (which was ridiculously fun combat wise, if a bit one button mashy, so kudos for that - about the only time exploding enemies made sense), like others have said Hawke's status as Champion makes sense as a form of protection from the Templars, but prior to that it's a bit of a plot canyon; especially as various characters mention what the PC is and caution them on provoking the authorities. On the upside the final letter in the setting up a Templar quest still makes me laugh.
General plot
My previous points on escaping Lothering, companion/family interaction and Act 3 stand, but (much as I love the whole Quanari plot) Act 2 has a bit of a plot flaw too in that you've got no idea what Hawke actually does once they get back from the Deep Roads. On my first playthrough I thought the response you gave to Varric might set a path for what they would do so gave the choice some serious consideration - only to see no difference in a second playthrough with a different response. This carried through to Act 3 as there still wasn't even a vague sense of what the PC was up to outside of wandering the city helping/blackmailing/killing/flirting with people. Feels like it would have been better to have some sort of overarching 'rise to power' backplot instead of the unrelated side quests.
There were other quests/interactions (including one remarkably creepy one in Act 1) that seemed like they were setting up for something else that turned out to have no impact either - that really surprised me for a game from you guys.
Overall it's a passable enough game, the visuals (glaringly out of place UI style aside) are gorgeous, voice acting, music etc. top quality; but it feels a little lost and ocassionally soulless/grindy. I get the whole 'life's what happens when you're making plans' feel to the story, but it wanders off track too much and you lose the connection to the characters due to that and the lack of additional interaction.
Minor Anders specific point
Would have liked a dialogue option to let the poor s*d down gently so he doesn't have a rage attack. It was nice to have one of the LI's be the initiator, but given the dialogue options his only available response is a bit alarming/OTT. To steal from another thread though I love the fact that all the LIs are 'Hawkesexual' and available to the PC whichever sex you play.
Crafting
I'm not too fussed on the crafting changes (being able to order things from shops/home was nice) but please, for the love of all things holy, in the next one don't hide essential ingredients in specific side missions players may not even get to play.
Side-characters
Cullen, Thrask, Emeric etc. were great, however I missed the sense of a living breathing world that you got in DA:O from characters like Wade and the two sisters outside the Denerim chantry. The sparse population of Kirkwall and re-use of character models didn't help either. I get that all of this type of thing adds to the cost and work involved in making the game but it's those sort of little touches that really brought things to life for me before and really aided immersion.
Best of luck!
Modifié par Furtled, 30 mars 2011 - 11:37 .
#1470
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 10:30
Punahedan
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Two more things that occurred to me just recently.
Firstly, would like more mage-pants. It was refreshing to have my Hawke running around in pants and still casting spells. Dresses do NOT make the magic flow easier, heheheheheheh.
Secondly, and more seriously, I remember reading an opinion on BioWare and on Obsidian Entertainment. While I don't always agree with Obsidian's design choices, the writer of this article (I wish I could find it again) made an interesting point that I agree with. BioWare's conversations are shorter than Obsidian's. I think it still stands, and becomes even more pointed as the games become more "cinematic."
Cinematic dialogue - most dialogue in any book or show or movie - is shorter and captures the essence of a conversation, but rarely actually imitates it. It would be too awkward and too realistic. I can appreciate that for what it is, but as I mentioned pages ago, it ended up feeling like not everyone said what they wanted to say in a conversation - particularly in debates relating to mages and templars. Obsidian's not really afraid of throwing the player into a long, long conversation. I think the most memorable part of NWN2 was the trial, and how that went on a really good, long while and was probably my favorite part of an otherwise lackluster campaign (MotB being considered separate, of course). Not every talk should be like that, but it'd be nice to see a chance to really get long-winded and entrenched in a topic now and again.
Okay. I'm done. Until I think of something else.
Firstly, would like more mage-pants. It was refreshing to have my Hawke running around in pants and still casting spells. Dresses do NOT make the magic flow easier, heheheheheheh.
Secondly, and more seriously, I remember reading an opinion on BioWare and on Obsidian Entertainment. While I don't always agree with Obsidian's design choices, the writer of this article (I wish I could find it again) made an interesting point that I agree with. BioWare's conversations are shorter than Obsidian's. I think it still stands, and becomes even more pointed as the games become more "cinematic."
Cinematic dialogue - most dialogue in any book or show or movie - is shorter and captures the essence of a conversation, but rarely actually imitates it. It would be too awkward and too realistic. I can appreciate that for what it is, but as I mentioned pages ago, it ended up feeling like not everyone said what they wanted to say in a conversation - particularly in debates relating to mages and templars. Obsidian's not really afraid of throwing the player into a long, long conversation. I think the most memorable part of NWN2 was the trial, and how that went on a really good, long while and was probably my favorite part of an otherwise lackluster campaign (MotB being considered separate, of course). Not every talk should be like that, but it'd be nice to see a chance to really get long-winded and entrenched in a topic now and again.
Okay. I'm done. Until I think of something else.
#1471
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 10:44
der_sandmann
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So this is my first post here but I’ve been lurking around since DA:O. Feeling the need to speak my mind about DA2 alone means a lot as I didn’t do this about all the other Bioware RPGs. That’s not supposed to be negative point, though.
Before I’ll begin, just a few words about myself: I’ve played almost every Bioware RPG and loved most them. For me the only real let down was NWN (NWN2 was so much better but not Bioware ). I’ve also played a lot of non-Bioware RPG and consider myself a real fan of especially of party-based RPGs. I think that BG2 is still unreached, mainly because of the great story and characters but DA:O is a damn strong competitor
But let’s come to DA2: First of all I’d like to thank Bioware for making a really great game. Considering the short development time(for an RPG) they probably did the best work they could. But it could be significantly better if there had been a little more time and work put into it. I also have to admit that there a lot of things that I liked better than in DA:O. So I’m going to divide the following text into 3 sections and try to compare each point mainly to DA:O as BG2 is too different for comparison (the apples and oranges thing).
What I liked as much or even better than in DA:O
The dialogue system:
Damn, it’s so much better In DA:O (and BG2, NWN, KOTOR …) I sometimes had a hard time to identify which answer is meant ironically, diplomatic, romantic etc. as text doesn’t carry accentuation very good. The symbols helped me a great deal.
I also enjoyed the possibility to let my party members speak or ask for their opinions. It was such a great surprise to see Fenris talk with the Arishok in their language.
That only an abbreviated version of the answers is shown in the menu increased the atmosphere along with the next point.
Main character has a voice of his own:
I must admit until Mass Effect I preferred flexibility in character creation over a voice for my char. But ME and now DA2 have shown that identification with the char actually increases dramatically when he can speak, react kind of spontaneously to situations and so on. It’s great and I don’t want to miss it.
Faster combat:
This is neither better or worse than in DA:O. It’s different but it’s fun. It feels dynamic and I can promptly react to events. Sometimes it has an almost cinematic feel. And using cross-class combos to barbecue a horde of staggered enemies with chain lightning is always a good thing. If this was my game, though, I would’ve designed it differently.
More info on what talents do:
I missed accurate descriptions of talents and spells DA:O badly. I didn’t know what to expect of them. So the additional info on them in DA2 is good thing. Could be even more. I like to understand how things work. Maybe you can make this info switchable for the few people who really want to know, like an expert mode.
More and more diverse talent trees:
I like it when I have to make a decision how to develop my character. It’s kind of boring when you end up with every single talent in the end. The system right now is great at the moment. It lets me not only choose to use a sword and shield but decide if I want to fight more offensive or defensive, no matter what style I chose.
A big, plausible city:
Yay, Kirkwall almost feels like a second Athkatla to me. It’s big, beautifully designed and you experience so many adventures in it. DA:O was missing such a thing. Denerim or Amaranthine were just cities somewhere in a fantasy world. No identification with them. Nevertheless, Orzammar was great
Crafting:
Collecting single leafs of elfroot was a real pain in the ass for me. The new system is much more comfortable and I crafted more runes than all craftable stuff together in DA:O + add-on. It’s a good compromise between comfort and improvement of the craftable items throughout the game. A keeper for sure.
Interaction with party members:
Getting rid of the gift system helped the game and focused the interactions on my decisions in quests, conversations and so on. Making rivalry not necessarily a bad thing helped me decide things “my way” and not to the liking of my party members many times. Each member has a life of his own which actually make them feel more realistic than in DA:O.
The party member’s quests:
I really like how they integrated into the whole story making the life of party even more important and comprehensible. Just a bit more background info would’ve been nice. How was Varrics life before I met him? Or how could Anders flee from the Grey Wardens?
Special outfits for my party members:
Gives them more personality and uniqueness. But here’s room for improvement. Maybe add some special items just for the members that actually change their appearance a little. New boots for Isabela that can be found or bought, a helmet for Aveline.
The design of the Qunari:
Much better. Now they look like giant, fearsome, glorious warriors. Sten in DA:O looked like some nerdy alien compared to it
The design of the elves:
They look more exotic and different to humans now which is nice as they are not humans but elves I didn’t experience the change as drastic as lot of other people, though. By the way, I can’t see a difference in design of the dwarves. Don’t know what people are complaining about.
What I liked worse than in DA:O:
The reduction of complexity in particular of everything regarding combat:
Why doesn’t heavy armor increase my fatigue anymore? Where are the differences between the single classes of weapons? Where’s armor penetration? Critical damage modifier (as a general spec, not as special thing to magic weapons)? No more spell combos (additional to cross-class combos)?
I like to optimize my party. I like tactical combat. If I build a tank I will give him the thickest armor available to absorb damage at cost of agility and stamina in battle. DA:O was great regarding that matter (but also not perfect imho). I used my rogues to penetrate armor, unpacked the hammer to crush skeletons and so on. In DA2 I just beat the hell out of every enemy without considering what I was actually facing. Golem? Just beat it to pieces. Dragon? Just slayed it. Arishok? Let’s think a moment … ah, just beat him ‘til he gave up. I like the new high speed combat but it’s less intellectually challenging if you know what I mean. I’d like to see best of both worlds here.
Additionally no friendly fire in lower difficulty levels and no tactical view. Even in DA:O I wished to zoom out even farther.
Balancing of difficulty levels:
I was always changing the difficulty level throughout the whole game which indicates something is wrong. I started on normal and switched to hard after the first fight because there was not the slightest amount of challenge. This was good for a few more fights but then I got slayed by some random thieves. WTF? Back to normal, next fight, no challenge at all. Hard again. Boss fight, on hard not even the slightest chance, on normal almost too easy. Next boss, slayed me even on normal. It lacks consistency here. Towards the end of the game this got even worse.
I think a few more month of balancing would’ve helped a great deal here.
The balancing of the classes was great, though. Never had the feeling that the i.e. the mage is overpowered or the 2-handed warrior is too weak like in DA:O.
Balancing of assassins and some other “lieutenants”:
Especially the elite rogues felt a bit overpowered. Stealth on contact, then backstab on a party member, heal, stealth, backstab. And at the end half of my party was dead. I’m exaggerating right now but it should give you the idea of what I mean. The healing and stunning abilities of some elite fighters were also just a bit over the top. Why can they do it and not my party?
In general I like it when casual enemies only have the same possibilities that I have. Equal chances, the one who uses his abilities better wins.
The story:
I really liked the story and it motivated me to play this game. It all seemed plausible. No severe logical errors. But it lacked a bit of epicness and some sort of “frame”. There was no greater goal, just the story of someone’s life. I know this was done on purpose but I would’ve liked some more connection between the acts.
Less possibility to adjust the party members to one’s playing style:
Depending on the chosen class and style some members just got redundant. Having a bit more room for adjustment to the member’s fighting styles would’ve been a good way to change this. Why not let Varric use a dagger even if he’s still more proficient with Bianca?
Less fighting styles for each class:
I would’ve liked to build a dual-wielding warrior or a thief with only one scimitar. Or the possibility to build to an actually awesome magic-based close combat fighter (something like a Jedi
Combat animations:
Exploding corpses when hit by a dagger? In parts I felt like I was playing a comic game. You should’ve kept the death blows of DA:O for edge-based weapons and the exploding enemies to weapons that actually explode. The mage’s animations were a big improvement over DA:O, however.
No funny, special or just interesting side characters:
Where are those characters which contributed little to the game but were just great to have met like Wade and Herren. Speaking of them:
No more forgeable items and only a few sets:
Where are those? I always had a great time looking out for parts of a magic sword or armor. In this matter BG2 is still unmet but DA:O was great here, as well.
Lack of puzzle quests:
I like action. I like fighting. But there has to be a bit of variety. I dearly missed quests which challenged me intellectually more than tactically like the asylum in BG2 or the Gauntlet in DA:O.
Group of obvious mages running around in Kirkwill:
By this I mean my party. Theoretically you can have a party of 3 mages running around in Kirkwall, a city full of paranoid templars. Pretty illogical, isn't it?
Things, that made me insta-facepalm and/or that I can only explain by a distributor pushing you Bioware guys to release the game (it’s ranting time):
Area recycling:
When centering a game around one place it’s understandable that a lot of time is spent in this place. What I can’t understand is why every goddamn cavern, dungeon or whatsoever must look EXACTLY the same. Same textures, same architecture. Only the amount of open doors or the point of entrance change. This is an absolute no go and the main point why this game, although still great, is a good deal worse than DA:O.
I can’t understand it. Was EA pushing you to release DA2? This is the only apology I might accept. Sorry guys, but this ruined the atmosphere more than anything else. This is all supposed to be constructive criticism but in that case I can only suggest to cut it out. Please design every dungeon for its own or at least vary the templates.
Incredibly imbalanced bosses:
Two bosses come to my mind at once, the Arishok and the Varterral. They had so much healing and regeneration that I had to beat them up for 15 minutes until they finally died. I changed the difficulty to casual when dueling the Arishok not because I would die too fast. I did it because otherwise I would still be fighting it right now. He seemed to have at least 10000 hitpoints.
This was so much better in DA:O. I had a hard time dueling Loghain but it was a fair fight. He had the same chances as my character, same talents, about the same amount of hitpoints. Why not the Arishok who on the other hand wasn’t able to kill me, either?
I’m not complaining of tough fights. I like challenges. But here you achieve difficulty by just raising hitpoints, resistances, sometimes damage output. This is (I’m sorry) cheap. Bosses must be tough, yes, but they must be special and not just have giant bars of health.
To conclude, Dragon Age 2 is still an awesome game and one of the best RPGs out there. You can be proud to have created a game that good in such a short time. But it could’ve been so much better if only the things in section 3 didn’t exist. Some parts just seem rushed to me.
The harsh criticism you can find in a lot of places on the internet is certainly not justified but there is a lot of room for improvements. DA:O has set the bar very high and unfortunately DA2 hasn’t fully met my expectations.
So this is a lot of text but I had to speak it out once. I hope it helps make DA3 a game which actually exceeds all expectations and is maybe even better than the ultimate god of RPGs: Baldur’s Gate 2
Before I’ll begin, just a few words about myself: I’ve played almost every Bioware RPG and loved most them. For me the only real let down was NWN (NWN2 was so much better but not Bioware
). I’ve also played a lot of non-Bioware RPG and consider myself a real fan of especially of party-based RPGs. I think that BG2 is still unreached, mainly because of the great story and characters but DA:O is a damn strong competitor But let’s come to DA2: First of all I’d like to thank Bioware for making a really great game. Considering the short development time(for an RPG) they probably did the best work they could. But it could be significantly better if there had been a little more time and work put into it. I also have to admit that there a lot of things that I liked better than in DA:O. So I’m going to divide the following text into 3 sections and try to compare each point mainly to DA:O as BG2 is too different for comparison (the apples and oranges thing).
What I liked as much or even better than in DA:O
The dialogue system:
Damn, it’s so much better
In DA:O (and BG2, NWN, KOTOR …) I sometimes had a hard time to identify which answer is meant ironically, diplomatic, romantic etc. as text doesn’t carry accentuation very good. The symbols helped me a great deal.I also enjoyed the possibility to let my party members speak or ask for their opinions. It was such a great surprise to see Fenris talk with the Arishok in their language.
That only an abbreviated version of the answers is shown in the menu increased the atmosphere along with the next point.
Main character has a voice of his own:
I must admit until Mass Effect I preferred flexibility in character creation over a voice for my char. But ME and now DA2 have shown that identification with the char actually increases dramatically when he can speak, react kind of spontaneously to situations and so on. It’s great and I don’t want to miss it.
Faster combat:
This is neither better or worse than in DA:O. It’s different but it’s fun. It feels dynamic and I can promptly react to events. Sometimes it has an almost cinematic feel. And using cross-class combos to barbecue a horde of staggered enemies with chain lightning is always a good thing. If this was my game, though, I would’ve designed it differently.
More info on what talents do:
I missed accurate descriptions of talents and spells DA:O badly. I didn’t know what to expect of them. So the additional info on them in DA2 is good thing. Could be even more. I like to understand how things work. Maybe you can make this info switchable for the few people who really want to know, like an expert mode.
More and more diverse talent trees:
I like it when I have to make a decision how to develop my character. It’s kind of boring when you end up with every single talent in the end. The system right now is great at the moment. It lets me not only choose to use a sword and shield but decide if I want to fight more offensive or defensive, no matter what style I chose.
A big, plausible city:
Yay, Kirkwall almost feels like a second Athkatla to me. It’s big, beautifully designed and you experience so many adventures in it. DA:O was missing such a thing. Denerim or Amaranthine were just cities somewhere in a fantasy world. No identification with them. Nevertheless, Orzammar was great
Crafting:
Collecting single leafs of elfroot was a real pain in the ass for me. The new system is much more comfortable and I crafted more runes than all craftable stuff together in DA:O + add-on. It’s a good compromise between comfort and improvement of the craftable items throughout the game. A keeper for sure.
Interaction with party members:
Getting rid of the gift system helped the game and focused the interactions on my decisions in quests, conversations and so on. Making rivalry not necessarily a bad thing helped me decide things “my way” and not to the liking of my party members many times. Each member has a life of his own which actually make them feel more realistic than in DA:O.
The party member’s quests:
I really like how they integrated into the whole story making the life of party even more important and comprehensible. Just a bit more background info would’ve been nice. How was Varrics life before I met him? Or how could Anders flee from the Grey Wardens?
Special outfits for my party members:
Gives them more personality and uniqueness. But here’s room for improvement. Maybe add some special items just for the members that actually change their appearance a little. New boots for Isabela that can be found or bought, a helmet for Aveline.
The design of the Qunari:
Much better. Now they look like giant, fearsome, glorious warriors. Sten in DA:O looked like some nerdy alien compared to it
The design of the elves:
They look more exotic and different to humans now which is nice as they are not humans but elves
I didn’t experience the change as drastic as lot of other people, though. By the way, I can’t see a difference in design of the dwarves. Don’t know what people are complaining about.What I liked worse than in DA:O:
The reduction of complexity in particular of everything regarding combat:
Why doesn’t heavy armor increase my fatigue anymore? Where are the differences between the single classes of weapons? Where’s armor penetration? Critical damage modifier (as a general spec, not as special thing to magic weapons)? No more spell combos (additional to cross-class combos)?
I like to optimize my party. I like tactical combat. If I build a tank I will give him the thickest armor available to absorb damage at cost of agility and stamina in battle. DA:O was great regarding that matter (but also not perfect imho). I used my rogues to penetrate armor, unpacked the hammer to crush skeletons and so on. In DA2 I just beat the hell out of every enemy without considering what I was actually facing. Golem? Just beat it to pieces. Dragon? Just slayed it. Arishok? Let’s think a moment … ah, just beat him ‘til he gave up. I like the new high speed combat but it’s less intellectually challenging if you know what I mean. I’d like to see best of both worlds here.
Additionally no friendly fire in lower difficulty levels and no tactical view. Even in DA:O I wished to zoom out even farther.
Balancing of difficulty levels:
I was always changing the difficulty level throughout the whole game which indicates something is wrong. I started on normal and switched to hard after the first fight because there was not the slightest amount of challenge. This was good for a few more fights but then I got slayed by some random thieves. WTF? Back to normal, next fight, no challenge at all. Hard again. Boss fight, on hard not even the slightest chance, on normal almost too easy. Next boss, slayed me even on normal. It lacks consistency here. Towards the end of the game this got even worse.
I think a few more month of balancing would’ve helped a great deal here.The balancing of the classes was great, though. Never had the feeling that the i.e. the mage is overpowered or the 2-handed warrior is too weak like in DA:O.
Balancing of assassins and some other “lieutenants”:
Especially the elite rogues felt a bit overpowered. Stealth on contact, then backstab on a party member, heal, stealth, backstab. And at the end half of my party was dead. I’m exaggerating right now but it should give you the idea of what I mean. The healing and stunning abilities of some elite fighters were also just a bit over the top. Why can they do it and not my party?
In general I like it when casual enemies only have the same possibilities that I have. Equal chances, the one who uses his abilities better wins.
The story:
I really liked the story and it motivated me to play this game. It all seemed plausible. No severe logical errors. But it lacked a bit of epicness and some sort of “frame”. There was no greater goal, just the story of someone’s life. I know this was done on purpose but I would’ve liked some more connection between the acts.
Less possibility to adjust the party members to one’s playing style:
Depending on the chosen class and style some members just got redundant. Having a bit more room for adjustment to the member’s fighting styles would’ve been a good way to change this. Why not let Varric use a dagger even if he’s still more proficient with Bianca?
Less fighting styles for each class:
I would’ve liked to build a dual-wielding warrior or a thief with only one scimitar. Or the possibility to build to an actually awesome magic-based close combat fighter (something like a Jedi
Combat animations:
Exploding corpses when hit by a dagger? In parts I felt like I was playing a comic game. You should’ve kept the death blows of DA:O for edge-based weapons and the exploding enemies to weapons that actually explode. The mage’s animations were a big improvement over DA:O, however.
No funny, special or just interesting side characters:
Where are those characters which contributed little to the game but were just great to have met like Wade and Herren. Speaking of them:
No more forgeable items and only a few sets:
Where are those? I always had a great time looking out for parts of a magic sword or armor. In this matter BG2 is still unmet but DA:O was great here, as well.
Lack of puzzle quests:
I like action. I like fighting. But there has to be a bit of variety. I dearly missed quests which challenged me intellectually more than tactically like the asylum in BG2 or the Gauntlet in DA:O.
Group of obvious mages running around in Kirkwill:
By this I mean my party. Theoretically you can have a party of 3 mages running around in Kirkwall, a city full of paranoid templars. Pretty illogical, isn't it?
Things, that made me insta-facepalm and/or that I can only explain by a distributor pushing you Bioware guys to release the game (it’s ranting time):
Area recycling:
When centering a game around one place it’s understandable that a lot of time is spent in this place. What I can’t understand is why every goddamn cavern, dungeon or whatsoever must look EXACTLY the same. Same textures, same architecture. Only the amount of open doors or the point of entrance change. This is an absolute no go and the main point why this game, although still great, is a good deal worse than DA:O.
I can’t understand it. Was EA pushing you to release DA2? This is the only apology I might accept. Sorry guys, but this ruined the atmosphere more than anything else. This is all supposed to be constructive criticism but in that case I can only suggest to cut it out. Please design every dungeon for its own or at least vary the templates.
Incredibly imbalanced bosses:
Two bosses come to my mind at once, the Arishok and the Varterral. They had so much healing and regeneration that I had to beat them up for 15 minutes until they finally died. I changed the difficulty to casual when dueling the Arishok not because I would die too fast. I did it because otherwise I would still be fighting it right now. He seemed to have at least 10000 hitpoints.
This was so much better in DA:O. I had a hard time dueling Loghain but it was a fair fight. He had the same chances as my character, same talents, about the same amount of hitpoints. Why not the Arishok who on the other hand wasn’t able to kill me, either?
I’m not complaining of tough fights. I like challenges. But here you achieve difficulty by just raising hitpoints, resistances, sometimes damage output. This is (I’m sorry) cheap. Bosses must be tough, yes, but they must be special and not just have giant bars of health.
To conclude, Dragon Age 2 is still an awesome game and one of the best RPGs out there. You can be proud to have created a game that good in such a short time. But it could’ve been so much better if only the things in section 3 didn’t exist. Some parts just seem rushed to me.
The harsh criticism you can find in a lot of places on the internet is certainly not justified but there is a lot of room for improvements. DA:O has set the bar very high and unfortunately DA2 hasn’t fully met my expectations.
So this is a lot of text but I had to speak it out once. I hope it helps make DA3 a game which actually exceeds all expectations and is maybe even better than the ultimate god of RPGs: Baldur’s Gate 2
Modifié par der_sandmann, 30 mars 2011 - 10:53 .
#1472
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 10:44
GhostRed
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HawXV2 wrote...
NOTICE: THIS POST IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF ALL FEEDBACK. PLEASE READ USERS POSTS IN THIS THREAD FOR MORE SPECIFIC FEEDBACK. THIS IS SIMPLY A GENERALIZATION.
Ok, now that we who own the game have a forum to post in, let's do BioWare a favor and post what is really wrong with a great game without being trolled.
Re-used maps
...Really nothing to say here.
Enemy encounters
Why do they randomly appear? In Origins, you guys had it perfectly. Behind a door they would come streaming, or when you turn the corner, bam! Darkspawn! Now, they just...apear. Literally. I've defeated many a wave quickly, just to see a warrior phase through like Star Trek! Very immersion breaking.
Rogue-type enemies
They're so overpowered! They'll disappear and one shot my healer, or if they don't, they'll half my tank's health! And there seems to be no CD. Tsk Tsk!
Linearernessed...uh...Linearreerrr...It feels too one-track minded
Don't get me wrong, the style of story telling was very good, and the story itself was superior to Origins in my opinion, but it just felt...pushed along. In Origins, it felt like you could do anything at anytime. In this one, I just felt like I had to everything in this order.
The feel
It didn't feel as big as Origins, which is sort of a give-in. It's only based in Kirikwall, which is a setting that looks simply stunning, but it just has to have more places to go to. It loses it's epic feeling when you stay in one place. Expand upon it!
Enemy deaths
Some of these are just ludicrous. I stab a guy in the back and he explodes? What? This does feel a bit childish, and only leads to more immersion breaking.
Junk
It's...junk? Yay? I just killed a dragon and I get...junk? This has potential, such as possible lore, backstories and stuff. You can even make it a sidequest. Rebuild an ancient Elven weapon or dwarven armor. The way it is now, it's just taking up disc space and has to go.
Auto-Attack
Nothing much to say, just need a toggle for some of us. I like both ways, though.
Companions
What's that, Alistair? You're a bastard?! Oh noes! Leliana, that lady will KILL YOU! Add in some LI dialogue, BioWare! I really would've fallen in love with Isabella if she would've told me about life at sea, or Fenris if he would've explained about his Lyrium skin, or life in Tevinter. I think you guys did wonderful with the romance dialouge itself, but I would like to personally know them.
Armor
We need more of it! Give us armor sets. Origins had a ton. In this game, it's 3. Although this does add to the legendary feel of it, we just want more choices. Also, ditch the colorful basic plate armor. It doesn't feel warrior like at all. The kind from Origins was perfect, it had a great color. It's not the armor style, it's the color.
Friendly Fire toggle
Some of us want FF on levels like hard, where combat isn't as tough as NM, or as easy as normal. Personally, I hate it, but the people want what they want!
Darkspawn
I'm sort of sleepy while putting this, but these designs are horrible. The original were much better, and a lot scarier. What happened to Genlock and Shurlock? Did Hurlocks get jealous and slaughter them all? Just bring back the old designs and put back in Genlocks and Shurlocks.
2 stat requirements
See Dave of Canada's post on page 12. He summed it up far better than I can.
Interface
A lot of people don't like the new interface. It just doesn't scream RPG. It seems a bit too modern. The look of Origins was fantastic. Let's go back to it.
Would like to be seen:
CPU interactions
Nothing really intricate, but if I run into somebody, I want to see them stumble and grunt angrily, maybe even curse at me. If I get into a fight, I want civilians running away, or guards helping out.
Weather
Does it ever rain or snow in Thedas? I want to see this. It would help greatly with the RPG experience.
Change log:
3/15/11: Added Exploding enemies
3/15/11: Added Inventory Junk
3/15/11: Added Auto-Attack
3/15/11: Added Dialogue (for companions)
3/15/11: Added Armor color
3/15/11: Added FF toggle for Hard
3/15/11: Added Arcane Warrior
3/15/11: Added Darkspawn Designs
3/15/11: Removed Arcane Warrior. It was decided that not having it made a lot of sense lore wise, and just shows BioWare's intelligence in lore design.
3/16/11: Added 2 stat requirements
3/16/11: Added Interface design
3/16/11: Added CPU interactions
3/16/11: Added Weather
3/16/11: New section! What would like to be seen.
( I'm going to find a more effecient way for this log soon)
I'm sure there are other gripes from other people. If you post them, I'll add them here, as I'm sure these aren't the only problems people don't like. But most people need to agree with it, as what you may find fault with, many others may like.
Ok, constructively complain away, guys.
My constructive criticism is for the COMPLAINERS and BIOWARE: Give themt their own forum and restrict complaints (that aren't simply questions/help requests related to an error or glitch) to that forum, much the same way spoilers are.
Complaints and the constant thread about "do you hate it a lot or just a little" are getting old.
A forum is supposed to be a place to DISCUSS a game you like, look for help with strategy, system problems and basic questions, and to [respectably] debate game-related topics.
Complaints fall into NONE of those categories. If you want to complain, fine. Misery loves company.
BIOWARE: GIVE THE COMPLAINERS THEIR OWN SECTION AND CUT THEM OUT OF THE REST OF THE FORUM.
That would be constructive.
#1473
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 10:50
Galactus_the_Devourer
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I've been mulliung over things, and I've considered about my main issues with DA2's combat. It basically boils down to a couple of- issues.
-Too cramped. The pulling down of the camera and the usage of very small confined spaces for most fighs means that all fights are essentially melee: There's very little room for manuevering and positioning.
-As a result of this, friendly fire was removed, which removed another tactical consideration.
-Lack of diversity among enemies. Both in types (really, there aren't that many) and in what each enemy does (all arcane horrors cast one spell and use one blast, then they teleport)
The end result is a lack of diversity of encounters: All of them are pretty much the same (with one excption: The Rock Wraith, that was an awesome fight)
The interesting thing is that it should be a (relative) cakewalk to write eg. a decent script for an enemy mage just using the in-game tactics system, but all enemy mages do is cast Pull of the Abyss and teleport.
-Too cramped. The pulling down of the camera and the usage of very small confined spaces for most fighs means that all fights are essentially melee: There's very little room for manuevering and positioning.
-As a result of this, friendly fire was removed, which removed another tactical consideration.
-Lack of diversity among enemies. Both in types (really, there aren't that many) and in what each enemy does (all arcane horrors cast one spell and use one blast, then they teleport)
The end result is a lack of diversity of encounters: All of them are pretty much the same (with one excption: The Rock Wraith, that was an awesome fight)
The interesting thing is that it should be a (relative) cakewalk to write eg. a decent script for an enemy mage just using the in-game tactics system, but all enemy mages do is cast Pull of the Abyss and teleport.
#1474
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 10:55
Horus Blackheart
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GhostRed :It all depends on what you consider constructive I dont think putting everyone that dislikes som aspect of the game in the one room and isolating them would be productive. In order to make things better ideas good and bad need to flow un hindered. Sure there are alot of coments on these boards and the interweb at large I dont agree with but to side line everyone with a 'negtive view' is to big brother for my tastes.
#1475
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 11:01
GhostRed
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Horus Blackheart wrote...
GhostRed :It all depends on what you consider constructive I dont think putting everyone that dislikes som aspect of the game in the one room and isolating them would be productive. In order to make things better ideas good and bad need to flow un hindered. Sure there are alot of coments on these boards and the interweb at large I dont agree with but to side line everyone with a 'negtive view' is to big brother for my tastes.
It's not about who's right or wrong, or whether they have the right to complain.
Its about duplicate posts about the same crap over and over when it could easily be consolidated.
If you want to complain about the DAO import bug, well there's a thread for that.
If you just don't like the changes from DAO to DAII, there's a thread for that, too.
Instead of 40 threads about the same stupid bug, someone who's all purturbed about it can go to one location and find out what other people already know about the same issue rather that posting thread #41 about "I hate DAII because it's not DAO part 2."
