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Constructive Criticism


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#1501
Jenova65

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XOGHunter246 wrote...

Ileanos07 wrote...

Allright...
3) Companions - I am sorry but I really did not like any of them (no dialogues, everyone is bisexual...)
.


Not everyone Aveline isnt sorry back on topic

Nor is Sebastian. 
And anyway, it doesn't matter no one has to romance anyone.......

#1502
Ganjian

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There may be spoilers ahead.

With the exception of Sonic and the Darkspawn Origins DLC, I've played and enjoyed all of Bioware's releases since Shattered Steel. Over the last three weeks or so I've played through DA2, Origins, (and almost all it's DLC) DA2 for a second time and most recently DA2 for a third, (Act 2 at time of writing).

It's therefore somewhat saddening to say the one word I come away from DA2 with is disappointment. That's not to say I've not enjoyed the experience - hell, I'm still playing and still eager for more - just that the overall impression I'm left with is it could have been so much more. Much like Troika's glorious swansong, Bloodlines, a lot of the enjoyment is ruined by a sense that rather than the developer, it was the publisher deciding the product was ready. Certainly for my peace of mind, I tell myself that's so and hope it won't be again, (since I'd imagine a particular time/money sink you've been tinkering with for a while now - something about lightsabers or somesuch shenanigans - won't be looming quite so prominently for DA3).

I think I paraphrase Minsc when saying : This behaviour must not continue. Feel the burning stare of my hamster and change your ways.

Many of the following have been stated in previous posts, but I'll reiterate those that troubled me, both to add another voice, but also in the interests of catharsis. Some are merely niggles, others not.

A couple of PC issues to start with, (the format I play all games on).

A pet bugbear of mine, but would it be too much trouble to remove the "Press start to start" screen on the PC version. It's presence is always quite jarring and seemingly pointless, beyond the indication that the console version came first. Also, on the character customisation screen, please bring back the arrows on either side of the selection bars. It's sometimes quite awkward to settle exactly on the change you want with only a mouse drag, especially when there are many options available for a bar, (the colour of blush for example). This only gets worse with added 3rd party mods too.

Some old reliables.

The reuse of incidental maps is horrendous. Far more that any of your previous titles, the effect is incredibly distracting. A lot of the joy from exploration is lost when visiting the same cave, warehouse or home for the tenth time. Of course there are situations where you revisit the same location and similarity is to be expected, but I suspect even the Maker would have gotten bored populating the Free Marches with the same cave network throughout. To compound the situation, there seemed very little attempt to disguise the fact, the only one I recall being Sebastian's personal quest in Act 2, where some alternate textures and skullpile blockages made all the difference. It was disheartening to see the minimap show the default layout each time and the grey blocks that were sometimes doors and sometimes non-interactable scenery act as dividers. Had the minimap been suitably trimmed and a few alternate textures added to disguise the doors, ambient barrels, crates and the like jiggled around to hide the copy-paste it would have been something, but as it stands it was glaring and given Bioware's track record, shocking. Overall, disappointment.

On the subject of maps, the lack of change between acts within Kirkwall itself was depressing. A scattering of new lootables and a change in the position of the sun didn't serve to give the impression that years had passed since you last visited despite the addition of an arch or statue here and there. Since it's understandable that in the absence of a natural disaster or war, little is likely to change on a major architectural scale that wasn't too unexpected, but crates stacked outside houses and such are, as are the people and vendors. This was further impacted by the fact that regardless of whether you helped your fellow refugees or cleared the nighttime streets of thugs, or let it all rot, nothing changed come the next act. Some sense of having a tangible effect would have made a welcome addition.

The lack of impact upon the world is something that bears mention for the story as a whole. None of the decisions you made seemed to make the blindest bit of difference to the path the story followed. Sure there were subtle changes in some of the side quests that became available as a result of the factions you favoured in a previous act, but for the main narrative, despite Varric's opaque précis at the start of the act, no matter what Hawke did, it ends the same way. After the profusion of choices you were able to make with Origins and the impact they had upon an individual playthrough, this was again, a disappointment. Given the "Rise to power" tagline associated with the game's press, it's somewhat ironic that Hawke felt so powerless, (moreso when compared with the Warden).

Combat is also something that I feel the need to comment upon. On the whole the increase in pace over Origins is welcome, though for my taste, it's perhaps a little too fast overall. Combined with the most unwelcome addition of waves of enemies to far, far too many encounters to be justified however, it takes combat from the fun, (at least on normal - the difficulty I most often play on) to the button-mashingly mindless. Despite the more viceral and dynamic nature of battle in 2, I find the more sedate combat of Origins far more enjoyable over an extended period as things stand. I rarely found myself frustrated or bored in Origins, even ploughing through the Deep Roads, yet frequently caught myself gritting my teeth as yet another wave of trash spawned in 2. To my mind, however, a reduction/removal of the vast majority of waves, (not all, by any means - the odd encounter here and there with reinforcements arriving adds a welcome change - even if they seemingly magically appear from nowhere :P) and an ever so slight reduction in pace would see the combat in 2 take the crown. In all honesty, the combat in a Bioware game is not really something that's overly important as long as it's functional - since it's fundamentally a hurdle that needs to be crossed in order to get to the next chunk of story for me, rather than a prime focus, (with the exception of the epic boss fights :).

That being said, the removal of a tactical, overhead view, especially combined with the inability to disable the "sticky" nature of AoE attacks are two aspects that would also, to my mind, need to be addressed. From a tactical combat point of view, not being able to have a clear sense of the battlefield layout made targetting a frustration on many occasions, certainly quelling any desire to play on harder difficulty levels as a result. For example, one character can see a trap around a corner, but you can't change to the rogue to disable it, because with them selected, you can no longer align the present camera in such a way to be able to interact with it. Perhaps that's intentional, "That character can't see it themselves, so of course they can't interact with it" you call. Humbug, I reply, please leave such "realism" as the purview of Counter Strike clones. On the flip side, sticky targetting was equally frustrating - though rather than from a tactical approach, this time from a real time one. Instead of being able to poop my miasmic flask or fireball where wanted in real time, I'd often have to pause, just to find the sweet spot I'd want the AoE land. Again, a frustration that detracts from enjoyment.

In an ideal world, I'd like to see both the reappearance of the tactical view for those days I want to Nightmare and at least the option to turn off sticky targetting for those when I want to Casual, but as things stand at the moment, please, at least one of them patched in.

Also of note for combat is the death animations. Here it has to be said 2 has taken a sharp backstep compared to Origins. Whilst it's understandable that the faster paced combat doesn't lend itself to finishing move animations, neither does the pace increase imply that foes are in fact blood filled baloons. Foes exploding is silly. Silly and distracting. It's another of those small things that serve to sever the suspension of disbelief. Should a "messy kills" item be equipped, or a mage's odd spell, (walking bomb and such I guess) be the cause, then fine, I suppose the whole exploding corpse thing is valid, but to explode from a dagger stab is poor. Combined with the overly fast 2-handed weapon attack speed and the gymnastic approach of a rogue, I'm left with a sense that the target demographic for such "features" is well below the PEGI rating of the game itself. I'd hope the slow and devastating 2h'er and more  restrained rogue make a reappearance in future releases. As things stand, there seems little point in making any sort of choice over character class - since all attack just as fast regardless of weapon type, whereas with Origins, the decisions you made mattered to your sense of combat pacing.

Related to combat are the talent trees. Although they are an improvement over Origins, there are a couple of aspects that I feel bear mention. Firstly they're a little on the small size per tree. Whilst Origins did suffer from a surfeit of skills - especially with Ascension, as things stand in 2, the generic trees feel a little too small to truly shape a character. Rather than having 3 trees with 4 abilities each, I'd have rather seen 2 with 6, (and their associated upgrades) Leaving a maxed player character with perhaps 1 filled generic and 1 specialist tree, rather than  2 or 3 generics and 1 or 2 specialist maxed. Perhaps it's merely an aesthetic quibble, but Origins gave a character more of a sense of role than DA2 - something that's welcome in an RPG. With 2, I'm left feeling a warrior, mage or rogue - regardless of where I stick my talent points, whereas in Origins I was dual wielding warrior, an elemental mage or a ranger. That greater sense of character is missed.

My other niggle with the talent trees is in relation to your companions. Especially with access to respec pots, it's frustrating that certain characters are entirely unable to access certain skills. As an example, and probably an often cited one at that, I'm not a fan of Anders. I didn't particulary enjoy his character in Ascension, (apart from Ser Pounce-a-lot) and he does nothing to endear himself with me in 2. As a result I'm loathe to use him as a party member outside of the "you must bring x" quests. However, for a goodly portion of the game, more or less depending on various choices you make, he's the only character that's able to heal. Thus I either hamstring myself by not bringing him along, or bring him and get irritated by his attitude. The same is true of Aveline and Fenris. Far preferable would have been the ability to spec Merril as healer and Fenris as sword and board. Yes, they'd not be as good as Anders and Aveline when considering each character's unique talents, (something I was glad to see included, as it adds character to characters :) but I suspect a lot less frustrating than none at all. I don't see the reasoning behind such restrictions, since a character's actual talented abilites have no impact on the story. Certainly, compared to Origins, it feels like a step back, rather than forwards.

It can be argued that a healer or a tank aren't needed. You can pot, shield and stun lock as alternatives and that's true. You can. But it would be nice to have the choice not too, without limiting your enjoyment using a companion you don't care for.

All of which brings me to my next subject. Companions. Two aspects of companions I feel are the worse for the changes between Origins and 2. First off, interaction. I've seen it mentioned, that one for one, there's a lot more dialogue per companion in 2 than there was in Origins. The trouble is it doesn't feel like that at all. Yes, the random party banter is a great improvement and the greater frequency of interactions in quests as they comment on this and that, or are asked for advice is most welcome, but it rarely serves to advance your relationship with that character. Sure, Anders, for example, will pipe in on occasion during a quest, but it's uncommon he'll say anything other than "mages have a hard time y'know." It's only during the all too infrequent companion quest pickup or completion dialogues that you're given a chance to get to know a little more about them and Maker forbid you don't follow every option trail at that point, else it's gone - never to be discussed again in 7 years. Sorely missed are the leisurely talks in camp from Origins, or enquiries while wandering the world. Discovering Sten's love of cookies, or Leliana's shoe fetish were moments of joy that helped breathe life into your companions. I think only the Long Road has offered that same sense of wonder in 2 and that's sad. Half the fun of returning to camp after a hard days darkspawn slaying was doling out the accrued gifts and hopefully getting to know your fellows a little better.

Similarly disappointing were the romances. Whilst the ability to romance a multitude of characters is to be justifiably praised, the 3 flirts and you're in scripting was a little on the spartan side. Sure it could be justified for the likes of Isabela, as it was for Zervran in Origins, given their personalities, but a more meaningful process for some would also have been welcome. Leliana's minefield of conversation options are an example. Also, once the relationship had been formed, it would have been welcome to be able to engage in banter with said person, as it is, the relationship feels lifeless outside of the acquision dialogues. Asking Merril to move in, (an option - even if automatically refused by certain characters - would have been nice for all) leads intitally at least to a flower pot in your room and handprints on your chandelier. Not quite in the same league as having the Blight wait 10 minutes while you have a snuggle. :) Again it adds to the sense of detatchment from your character. Nothing you do really seems to make a difference to you or the world outside of the dialogue involved with it.

My second issue with companions is the lack of ability to equip them. I can understand the desire for them to retain a unique look, hell, in Origins I'd often hold off equipping someone just so they would retain their appearance, (Maker bless the person who added the hide hat option!) Indeed, when their costume did change as a result of events, it was welcomed - some tangible  effect to your actions at last! But 75% of the items you garner in 2 are no better than the trash loot as things stand. It would have been nice to be able to add the stats from those items at least to their eqivalent slots, or if not that, some choice in the nature of the upgrades you apply to their armour, rather than a fixed, unchanging, four items per character, per game. Along with those conversations in camp during Origins, distributing new loot to your companions was also all part of the fun during the breaks from saving the world.

With regards to equipping companions, the inability to access them all at one location was also an added frustration, rather  than an improvement. Having the option to call everyone over to your home or somesuch, so you could distribute rings and such between them, (as you could in your campsite in Origins) would have been appreciated. More so since you couldn't even form a party at your home, (where you have access to your storage and enchanting facilities).

On the subject of loot, the new inventory system is, overall, I think an improvement, but the absence of flavour text is missed. Star ratings for gear, however, I'm dubious about. Their addition seems to be for the benefit of those new to RPGs, fair enough. A larger consumer base leads ultimately to more cash for development, at least so one would hope. Then why is the system so spurious? A ring, for example, that I loot at level 5 with 3% physical damage will have 0 stars compared to 3 for the exact same ring looted at level 15. This seems somewhat counterintuative.

A few other random issues.

Crafting has, overall, changed for the better. It was often quite annoying gathering all the required materials to craft
something in Origins, especially initially, when unfamiliar with the location of various vendors, so the find and forget nature of crafting nodes was appreciated. However, the inclusion of said nodes in areas that were potentially unreachable was, I think, a poor desgin choice. By all means stick them in places you don't have to visit, but not in those you can't.

Hawke's home was also somewhat souless. Largely unchanging for 6 years, lacking random rooms, (no kitchen!) and little indication of time passing. Personally, I'd have loved to have seen something of the scale of the Arl's Denerim estate from Origins, with the option to invite all your companions to move in over time, new trophies added as quests are completed, (High dragon head over the fireplace!) or even something as simple as Shep's fish tank from ME2 - something to give a sense of progress and achievment. Not to mention the ability to change costume - a plusher outfit as your successes improved your lot in life.

A small niggle on the subject of clothing, both in Origins and DA2. Mage robes and hats - shudder.

In relation to mages. Given the overarching story, it seemed strange so little comment was made if the player was one, let alone if the party consisted of a mage PC or Bethany with Merril and Anders. It seemed inconsistent that everyone and their uncle would harp on about mages, yet nothing was done about you.

The dialogue wheel I like. Occasionally, it was quite difficult to judge the nature of a statement in Origins, but the wheel in 2 means even if what you say bears little relation to what you expect, at least the nature of the comment is in line with your intentions. However, the 3 choices often felt a little restricting, moreso with the absence of persuasion and intimidation. Whilst the change to the nature of your character based on your most frequent tone was welcome, the lack of special options as a result of that was noticable. Focusing on a tactful/agreeable approach for example, rarely led to the ability to calm a situation down and resolve it non-violently.

My final point relates to the bookends of the game and framed narrative structure. The introduction to your character, at least from the point of view of getting to know yourself and your family wasn't best served by the baptism of fire you enter after character creation. A prelude along the lines of the human noble origin story would have served to introduce you to everyone and as a result, perhaps, have some emotional ties with them, before they started dropping like flies. As it was, the sense of detachment from your family was great, to the extent that there was no emotional ties to the sibling that dies so soon into the game. Similarly, the lack of an epilogue and general spartan feel of Act 3 left me with the sense that something was missing. Far, far too many loose ends, as if the final bite of pie was snatched from my grasp, just as I was about to bite.

I enjoyed Varric's narration, especially his occasional exaggerations, but the transitions between acts didn't have the weight of time passing between them, especially since your character had so little impact on the development of Kirkwall.

Overall then, some welcome changes, some not so. I feel purged and able to resume that third playthrough now, but hovering over it all is still a sense of disappointment. Thank you for a good game, it's a shame it wasn't a great one though.

#1503
spsteffen

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Ok, not sure if anyone has already posted something like this, but here is my critique and something I consider to be a possible solution to some of the recycling problems.

First of all, after one playthrough as a warrior and currently working on a mage, I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. The ending gave me that same "oh crap!" moment that the original KOTOR did. Sure it had its faults, but what game doesn't? I think the main issue here is that Bioware tried to branch out from their usual storytelling system. They tried to show time instead of just venturing throughout the world. Now I think this was a good idea, but with any company trying something new, it wasn't quite executed that well.

I had a small idea that may have helped. What if Bioware had only unlocked areas periodically throughout the game instead of just returning to that location? For example, maybe in act 1 you wouldn't be allowed into Hightown? Then in act 2 that whole area would be open to exploration. From then on these areas would always be accessible as well, so by the end of the game you can go to all of the locations. Obviously Bioware would have had to create some more locations, but I just thought that it would have made the game feel more fluid. That way you still get to visit areas years after the initial visit, but you also get to explore new areas.

This may have been Bioware's original plan and was scrapped for whatever reason, but I feel this would have helped with a lot of the complaints. What do you guys think?

#1504
Jones7602

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To get some things right, before I start complaining. I actually enjoyed DA2, it is a cool game, I like the story, I like the combat pacing, the voiced Hawke and the overall art design.  And I am very thankful for not having to save the world again.

However, DA2 feels very unfinished to me and is plain wrong in many places. Some of these things were already wrong in DA:O but that one was overwhelming so you didn't notice these things in your first playthrough. All in all I'd say you owe me a DA2.5 correcting the worst issues.

My points for DA2:
1) Fix technical issues, this game has to many technology related bugs, DX11 is unplayable.
2) Fix quest issues, people are complaining quite a lot about gamebreaking bugs.
3) Bring back a real tactical view and redo the balancing of the combat. Some enemies are to tough and do to much damage like enemy rouges or mages. My own rogues and mages are comparativly weak.
4) Redo these waves of enemies growing from the ground or jumping from the roof. If Somebody is out to kill me I like to see them! If I see an empty bridge from a 100m I expect it to be also empty from 15m.
5) Give us some tactical advantages back, like scouting an area for enemies, surprise attacks on enemies and so an. I can't use any combat skill before I am spotted, this is very lame. I should be able to attack anything, and if I do it, there should be consequences.
6) Redo the elves, honestly, they all look like Dobby...
7) Add some change to the world, like Fenris cleaning up his house, aging NPCs, changes to Kirkwall and so on... I want to see some impact on the world.
8) Create at least a few more locations, nuff said about it.
9) Remove junk from the game. Honestly, I'm not killing a dragon for a pile of junk!
10) Add some logic to the world. I'm running around in fine robes with a big pointy stick on my back calling down lightning and advertising "apostate" before a whole army of templars and not a single one reacts to my actions.
11) Add some logic to NPCs, give them some resemblance of character and life. They really shouldn't just stand around and watch me fight of dozens of plunderers. At least they could run away, call for the guards...
12) Add some more life to the environment, a view more NPCs, some animals, some plants. Everything will help to create the illusion of a world. Or does a whole clan of elves really consist of about 5 people and 2 wagons?
13) Replace some of the more ridiculous combat animations with more toned down versions, like  exploding monsters from a backstab with a dagger not larger than my best kitchen knive. No steak ever exploded in my kitchen...

My points for a possbile DA3:
1) An open world with well designed locations. RPGs are about exploring, not killing monsters in narrow tunnels, for this we have shooters. A modern RPG should be a world simulation, at least to a certain extend.
2) Don't waste opportunities, DA2 could easily have started in Lothering with an epic battle like Ostagar. Starting with Hawke on the run is a terrible waste of blending both games together. This also includes how emotions are handled, the last trailer got it right, the game unfortunately doesn't.
3) Bring back some RPG elements like customizable armor and an inventory, where we can actually see the items. If you want to have unique looks for the party NPCs give me a few outfits to chose from. Discovering new outfits could be companion quests. In general please rework the interface, it looks like placeholder for the real interface.
4) If the story spans several years let the time frame have impact on the world and on people. Like playing one act in winter, another in spring, aging people, changing stores, cleanup of places...
5) Do a better balancing of the game. For reference look at The Witcher, Gerald was badass from the beginning, but victory depended on using his abilities to the best. In DA2 I feel underpowered and overpowered at the same time. I can kill dozens of mobs but a single rogue can end my party.
6) Make magic worthwhile, my mages feel underpowered and there is no reason to fear them. I hurl a fireball at an enemy and he just continues killing me instead of being horribly burned. I freeze someone to brittle and a few seconds later he is at my back againg... Even if would turn into an abomination I would be easy to kill.
7) When you are at it, give us some really nasty spells inside and outsight of combat. Things like mind control or boiling the blood of an enemy instantly killing him. I want something, that can really hurt a boss and slay an lieutenant.
8) Only mages do magic! I don't want teleporting rogues or shock wave creating warriors... The only thing that should happen if you stick your sword in the ground is it getting dirty. Not enemies flying away...
9) Keep the pacing of the combat but tone done the animations to something more adult. For example a successful backstab could show a short animation of the rogue cutting the throat of the enemy, not exploding it. If you want lots of gore use magic spells. Those should be over the top nasty.
10) Give us more freedom to decide, who our main character is. A set char with voice acting can still have an origin story, perhaps set years in his past which defines his character.
11) If you want to stick to certain classes/chars using only certain weapons do it more intelligently by making it part of the story. This works great in combination with an origin story like me being a guard and thus only trained in sword&board. In general everybody should be able to use every weapon but you need to be trained in it to do real damage.
12) Give us more variations in characters, warrior, rogue and mage generally cover it, but I'd like to see variations on them from the beginning of the game not introduced via specialisations. I would also like to see a mage using swords, there are some nice mods out for this for DA:O. This mage would use his power in a lyrium infused blade, combined with the force mage spec you would have something akin to Jedi, specialised in fighting single oponents.
13) Bring back heavy party interaction, I want to be able to talk to my people more than once every 3 years. Make romances more enjoyable and adult, the lack of any nudity in an adult game is rather annoying.
14) Base more quests on choices which really have impact, like siding with a certain faction, doing things diplomatic or violent... Implement small scale choices like saving somebody with magic will have me to deal with the templars. Not saving him will to small vendetta side quest later on.
15) Continue unfinished story arcs, I really want to know what happened to Morrigan!

Modifié par Jones7602, 31 mars 2011 - 02:06 .


#1505
culletron1

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I am 47 hours into the PC version. I am not quite finsihed yet. I liked this game but in comparion to Origins this game is VERY poor. It really felt like a rushed to market lets make as much as we can off the back of DA:O mission. Here are my thoughts and criticisms. By the way I am taking the time to do this because I LOVE bioware games so much and I really want the next ones to be better than this.


So lets start with the GOOD things
================================================
Voiced Main Character - Great addition to the series

The Writing - Some of the party banter had me in stitches. Really great

Time Lapse in the story - Fantastic Idea though it could have been developed a lot more

Voice Acting and Lip Syncing - Again this was excellent. Special mention to Kate Mulgrew who stole every scene

Cross class Combos - Great idea although perhaps a little over powered


Now on to the things that need improvement
=================================================

***Presentation***
1.) UI was boring and horrible. No time  put in to this. Compared to the open book layout of Origins it was pretty sad
2.) PARTY SELECTION SCREEN was again boring. There was nothing to it. When you clicked on a companion nothing happened. when you deselected them nothing happend. Stark contrast to DA:O 
3.) GFX were ok... certainly nothing special. Character models were a step up from DA:O but environments were horrible for the most part


***Environment***
1.) KIRKWALL was possibly the biggest diappointment of the game. It was dead and lifeless. Like one of the centrally planned Ghost cities in China. There are no detatched houses, there is never anyone conducting business, there is nothing going on in the markets. Its just horribly shoddy
2.) SUNDERMOUNT was also lifeless. I really can't imagine that elves are living there. There was a few elves, a few sleeping bags and a cart... That was it... The Dalish Camp in DA:O was infinitely better
3.) MAPS - reused over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over AND OVER.
4.) Why can I not ENAGE ANYONE in CONVERSATION ?!?! It seems only plot characters at certain plot points will talk to me

***Combat***
1.) EXPLODING ENEMIES was so dumb and the animation, which was the same for every one, was horrible
2.) WAVES OF ENEMIES seemed to appear everywhere. Does no one live in kirkwall other than waves of enemies who explode when you touch them? This was again just stupid... really making combat less enjoyable. 
3.) TELEPORTING ENEMIES what can I say this was absolutely ridiculous. A HUGE step back from origins and something that helped to destroy immersion

***Companions***
1.) Not being able to EQUIP the PARTY was a major set back. Just simplification for the sake of it. It takes away from the experience and adds nothing.
2.) There was very little PARTY INTERACTION. In my Gamlens house I couldn't engage anyone in conversation. While on a mission I couldn't engage anyone in conversation. In fact i could only do so at specific times.
3.) When I clicked on a party member to take control of them while on a mission they said nothing. I remember in Origins Morrigan would giggle (if she liked me) and alister would scoff (if he didn't like me). There was just a complete absence of ATTENTION TO DETAIL.
4.) ROMANCES were secondary and had no real impact on the game. I kissed isabella and we rolled around with our clothes on... there was some fun party dialog as a result though

***Story***
1.) ACT 1 was pretty terrible. Kind of like GTA but without a cool living city
2.) At no point did I ever feel there was some OVER ARCHING PLOT going on. It was brave not to do a "save the world" story and I respect the decision not to, but is there any story in this game? I am almost finished and I don't know it yet if there is...
3.) The "deliver this back to x person" SIDE QUESTS are a waste of time. Perhaps if we had to figure out who owned x and decide whether to give it back to them of not it would be cool... but those kinds of side quests are just lazy.

***Misc***
1.) The new DARKSPAWN designs are pretty bad. Hurlocks were so much scarier more intelligent looking in DA:O
2.) There is a general LACK OF DEPTH in this game that really kills it. In DA:O we had an abundance of amazingly cool side quests like topsiders hilt and the summoning sciences that really made you feel as if there was endless depth to the game. DA2 doesn't even feel like the main plot is finished. DA2 survives on the lore of DA:O.
3.) New designs for TEMPLARS and CHANTRY aren't as good as the first game. Grey and some primary color seem to be the order of the day for DA2 and i really didn't think it worked that well.
4.) The CODEX layout isn't even close to DA:O. Zero dev time went into it obviously.
5.) The new CRAFTING system isn't as fun as getting your mages and Rogues to make things. I don't know why they changed that... you could buy all the health potions in stores
6.) STORES... where are the dedicated stores???? The wonders of thedas store in denerim etc were so cool. They added so much to DA:O. They made thedas seem like a real place... 

In general DA2 doesn't even appear to have half as much to it as DA:O. It has taken me 50 hours playing time but about 25 hours of that was new content, the rest was recycled . There wasn't even anything close to the attention to detail that existed in DA:O in DA:2 and it suffered a lot from this...

I don't want to be too harsh because its still a good game. I payed £30 for the signature version. I think it was worth that. Its just frustrating considering what it should have been...

#1506
AlfredJFK

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Paeyne wrote...

Since there seems to be a great deal of controversy surrounding the various sexualities of the romances, I offer this as a compromise for your next game that should make any but the most unreasonable happy.

Character Screen:

Gender: Male Female

Gender Interest: Male Female Either

The player makes the sexuality choice of their character from the outset and the story progresses based on that choice.

Personally, I applaud Bioware at their attempt to be as inclusive as possible and I agree with their stance on the subject, however I can understand how some might not wish this type of content in their entertainment.

Putting the choice of this from the outset eliminates a lot of issues and might allow you to make gay characters that are a little less stereotypical.  (Zevron and Anders always came accross as very stereotypical to me, whereas if it were someone like Alistair or Varric it would be far less obvious.) 


But why would you want to support peoples homophobia? I mean seriously, we're living in the 21st century. It shouldn't be that big a deal if an NPC of the same gender makes a move onto you. You still can send them away. Anyways, guess my point is to not make something nedlessly complicated.

Hope I didn't offend you, as I just wanted to push the discussion forward on that point.

EDIT: Changed some wordings as english is not my mother tongue.

Modifié par AlfredJFK, 31 mars 2011 - 02:59 .


#1507
Cybermortis

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Characters, like real people, should not be defined by their sexual orientation. I've yet to meet someone who tells me they are gay or bi - or given me any hints that they are - unless there is a reason for them to do so. Nor have I ran into anyone who is gay or bi who hits on me within five minutes of meeting them.

Frankly I don't care if Anders is bi, straight or gay. I do care that he thinks making a pass at me the second I recruit him is the right thing to do. The problem here is that of the four none DLC characters in my party, only one doesn't automatically make a pass at me while telling me their name.

I'm also dismayed that you can romance everyone in one game. In DAO you HAD to play the game at least twice as different genders to romance all the interests in your party. In DA2 you just have to press the right button three times - and it is helpfully marked for the totally clueless.
You shouldn't be able to romance everyone, romance everyone so quickly are always get away with flirting with them. It seems unrealistic that everyone you can romance will react positively to you flirting with them, until they've got to know you a little better.

#1508
ladyofpayne

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Story and NPC was very good, like real people.
But in the end why two main chars scream "we all mad here" and start you- know-what.
Real need action option for PC like Mass Effect 2. The best idea for game I've ever seen.
I also didn't inderstand why you need time line 7 years? Because for companions it looks too long time for their bisness.
And for the whole story was better not 7 but 3 years- what Hawke did during three years and one year? Kissing Fenris?
DA 2 need to change disign of elves. They look ugly with those noses.
Too much fights. Need some talkative quests.
And BRING BACK THIS TOOLSET!

Modifié par ladyofpayne, 31 mars 2011 - 04:45 .


#1509
Jenova65

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Cybermortis wrote...

Characters, like real people, should not be defined by their sexual orientation. I've yet to meet someone who tells me they are gay or bi - or given me any hints that they are - unless there is a reason for them to do so. Nor have I ran into anyone who is gay or bi who hits on me within five minutes of meeting them.

Frankly I don't care if Anders is bi, straight or gay. I do care that he thinks making a pass at me the second I recruit him is the right thing to do. The problem here is that of the four none DLC characters in my party, only one doesn't automatically make a pass at me while telling me their name.

I'm also dismayed that you can romance everyone in one game. In DAO you HAD to play the game at least twice as different genders to romance all the interests in your party. In DA2 you just have to press the right button three times - and it is helpfully marked for the totally clueless.
You shouldn't be able to romance everyone, romance everyone so quickly are always get away with flirting with them. It seems unrealistic that everyone you can romance will react positively to you flirting with them, until they've got to know you a little better.

Can you? I have only romanced Fenris, that said he did just stand there and watch me flirt with Zevran and didn't say anything til Zev offered me what can only be described as a quick one behind the bushes.....
It would be better if he had at the very least said ''I'm standing right here you know...'' :P How do you romance them all? (not gonna but, d*mn, I am curious...)

#1510
Mriswith911

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This post is pretty huge so I'm not sure anyone will see my comments.  They're likely rehashes of previous posts but there's way too much to read.  Here we go:

Combat
  • Way too chaotic.  I realize you were going for a different style here but it's really hard to keep track of everything going on.  For example, I bump into certain NPCs in Lowtown that I need to take out for a quest.  They jump me as expected.  Within a second explosions are going off, people are running all over the place, suddenly archers appear out of nowhere nearby, Aveline isn't maintaining any sort of control, the mage is getting attacked all of a sudden, etc.  While the response "battles are supposed to be chaotic" is expected I think it's just too much.  In DA:O it was pretty easy to keep track of everything even as a melee character but I find myself having a lot of trouble with this in the sequel.
  • I agree with the comments about exploding enemies.  It's cool in a lot of cases like when I hit them with an ability that does a lot of damage, but when Aveline just hacks at an enemy with her sword and they explode everywhere it's almost like I suddenly find myself in Quake III or something.
  • This may change if/when autoattack gets added but combat feels less Dragon Age to me and more Dynasty Warriors.  I love Dynasty Warriors and all but it feels wrong for this game.  What I mean is that you basically run into a mob of enemies, fire off an AE ability and then hack down whoever is left.  You then turn and run to the next mob.
  • The mob fight setup for this game also reminds me of Dynasty Warriors.  There isn't much in the way of tactics here.  It's just like "throw a bunch of enemies at them and see if they can survive it" as opposed to DA:O's extremely measured, tactical and sometimes amazing battles.  In DA:O if I walk into a room and there's a mage there, I typically fight just that mage.  In DA2 if I walk into a room with a mage, I have no idea how many extra enemies are suddenly going to appear.  Should I heal now after he hits me with Winter's Grasp or should I try to stick it out and hope there aren't more enemies that will suddenly drop in for no reason?
Party Members
  • I agree that they're overly sexualized.  Anders goes from being extremely weary of me to wanting to jump my bones in a matter of seconds.  There's no reason for this as I never did anything to even hint that I might be interested.  In a way it's like everyone has suddenly become Zevran.  Whoever does the dialogue should maybe take time to consider that, unless the character is a complete skank (Isabella), it might not make sense to have them offering up their bed in one of their first real conversations with the main character.  In DA:O romances took investment and you actually felt a sense of passion.  Not so much here.
  • The first Dragon Age really invested in character development from the start.  In this game it feels really forced when people join you, except for Aveline and your sibling.  It's not horrendous or anything, but again the dialogue should really be improved for any future DLC/new games.  I know I'm basically saying "Do better dialogue" with "better" being pretty subjective but I don't really know what to add more than that.
  • This is a small gripe but it bothers me.  The party in the party selection screen are all moving around like they need a fix and haven't had one in days.  If they scratched their arms randomly and looked around all paranoid-like it wouldn't look out of place.  Could you maybe make them stand a little bit more naturally?
Spells/Abilities
  • It would be great if there were more healing options spellwise.  It looks like you wanted to emphasize potion use a little more.  This makes sense because, with two mages in the party and a good tactical setup, you could avoid potions altogether in DA:O.  Having a single heal with a long refresh kind of sucks though, especially given how hard it is to monitor the battle as mentioned above.
  • I'm not a huge fan of the new skill trees but they aren't bad.  In the end it feels like I'm missing out on abilities, but if I hadn't played DA:O before this then it would probably feel fine.  I assume they'll be expanded upon in future DLC so I'll wait and see how it goes.
General
  • Questing is odd in this game.  I understand you start off having a year's worth of rep built up and plenty of existing contacts but that doesn't mean I want my hand held all the time.  I'd much rather find quests via exploration rather than having the game notify me that I have mail and have that mail be "Hawke, go check out this random section of town.  Could be loots.  Signed, whoever".
  • The icons on the dialogue choices were a little much.  I know there were some ambiguous options here and there in DA:O but for the most part you knew if you were being nice, mean, sneaky, flirtacious, etc.  Having the game outright tell you "Click here and you will get some booty" or "Click here to be funny" breaks my immersion.  Also, instead of focusing on saying what I want to say I find myself focusing more on "Ok, this is my 'nice' playthrough so it's all angel wings and olive branches for me."
That's all I have.  Even with these criticisms the game has been pretty spectacular.  The graphics are great with the slowdown that plagued the PS3 (the version I'm playing) no longer being a problem.  Spells look pretty good.  Kirkwall is fun to explore.  I'm excited to see how you guys improve things and make it even better.

#1511
hunterday

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For me its the lack of different armor and the re-used maps which i hope they will fix with DLC. The story is great but could use more conversation topics with companions which could be fixed with DLC. Come to think of it they could solve a lot of the problems people have with this game with DLC and not just stuff to add at the end of the game... their is a gap of a few years after every act so why not use it? I dont think they will change anything in game but they could add so much more and i really hope they do :)

#1512
Paeyne

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AlfredJFK wrote...

Paeyne wrote...

Since there seems to be a great deal of controversy surrounding the various sexualities of the romances, I offer this as a compromise for your next game that should make any but the most unreasonable happy.

Character Screen:

Gender: Male Female

Gender Interest: Male Female Either

The player makes the sexuality choice of their character from the outset and the story progresses based on that choice.

Personally, I applaud Bioware at their attempt to be as inclusive as possible and I agree with their stance on the subject, however I can understand how some might not wish this type of content in their entertainment.

Putting the choice of this from the outset eliminates a lot of issues and might allow you to make gay characters that are a little less stereotypical.  (Zevron and Anders always came accross as very stereotypical to me, whereas if it were someone like Alistair or Varric it would be far less obvious.) 


But why would you want to support peoples homophobia? I mean seriously, we're living in the 21st century. It shouldn't be that big a deal if an NPC of the same gender makes a move onto you. You still can send them away. Anyways, guess my point is to not make something nedlessly complicated.

Hope I didn't offend you, as I just wanted to push the discussion forward on that point.

EDIT: Changed some wordings as english is not my mother tongue.



Hehe..you have to go a lot farther than this to offend me.

To me its about story.  Not about supporting one preference or another.

If the preference is chosen at the outset then the game and the story can be tailored to me.

I think RPGs, at their heart, are about story and fantasy.  IF you want relationships in a story, then it makes sense to try and bring that story closer to what the player wants and enjoys.  (This is, after all a video game played for entertainment purposes and not a social commentary.)

That does not mean that their can't be interesting relationship hurdles based on your choice.

You may have to come to an understanding with NPCs that are interested in you that you may not be interested in.

You may have to work harder at romancing some NPCs than others.  (If you were to choose 'Either', as an example).

I don't look at it as pandering to one side or another.  I look at it as trying to make the RPG as enjoyable as possible to everyone who plays it.  Ultimately, I think we all want that.  (Well.. most of us want that.)

#1513
Kimberly Shaw

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Just wanted to add that Ganjan's post on this page is incredible, and is one of the best reviews of the game I have read. I hope someone from Bioware passes it on to the right parties. That is all, carry on.

#1514
keginkc

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I wonder if I've posted in this thread. You know you're old when you have to ask yourself that.

My suggestions, few and probably some of the same many others have, in order of importance:

1. Bring back an isometric camera that is not locked on a specific character. I didn't really miss it, per se, once I grew accustomed to the game's camera, but I think it would be an improvement nonetheless.

2. Get rid of junk. It's pointless and I was disappointed/annoyed every time I looted it. Or, alternatively, if you intend to keep it, then make it at least a little more valuable.

3. Ease off on the rogues and assassins. I'm in act 3, and my response to them is essentially 'aw hell, not these guys again'. They don't really pose a problem, not even on nightmare, but the game sometimes feels like a never-ending wave of backstabbing.

4. Find a way to make the act transitions seem more meaningful. Suddenly being years ahead in the story seems anticlimactic and not in any way notable.

5. I liked the idea of MMO style scripted boss fights. I did not like having MMO style boss hitpoints. I play on Nightmare, at least initially, and a single boss fight can take a half hour, or more. That's too much. Find a happy medium.

6. Get rid of the exploding enemies, unless, you know, something's making them explode (i.e. Walking Bomb). Blood is cool and all but that's overkill.

And that's about it. I understand that other people have concerns about other aspects of the game, whether it's companion armor or missing skills, but speaking only for myself, I don't have any problems with the way DA2 handled any of that. I think it's a good game as it is, and I'm loving the story it tells (the most important think in my opinion) and I think the foundation is in place for a great one.

#1515
MelfinaofOutlawStar

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Recycled areas and spawning enemies aside...

I think my biggest issue with the game is I feel Hawke served no purpose. The character was just there in a world that would have carried on without them. Your companions carry the plot forward, not you. You're nothing more than a glorified delivery boy/babysitter. The collective intelligence of the city of Kirkwall barely registers. The player feels like they're the only sane person in the game, which for some can be really irritating. The title of Champion is given to your player even though you have no negotiating power. You're just made the errand boy of slightly more important people.

The game takes place over 10 years, 3 of which you actually play and even then the city remains in a time capsule. Nothing progresses or changes. If you're going to set a game within an entire city you need to put as much into that city as you can. It needs to feel like it's a living, breathing thing. If felt like a ghost town compared to Denerim. Despite my grievances about the Fable series, Molyneux does know how to show how a world evolves through actions and the passage of time.

I've logged 100+ hours into Origins over multiple playthroughs and found myself stopping in Act 1 of my second playthrough of DA2. I stopped because I felt like I was just playing the same game over again. I'm stuck on tracks I can never deviate from. People like RPGS because it lets you customize and lose yourself into the world. As Hawke I felt like an average Jane. It wasn't an escape as much as it felt like a chore. I had no compulsion to remain in Kirkwall other than the game keeping me there.

That said, the character dialog and relationships were good which made me wish there was more of it. Because of the act structure though I felt I was missing a lot of the growth the inter-relationships could have had.

In short, nice characterizations. City full of illogical morons that not even a sane Hawke can save from their own destruction. I like Bioware. I have a lot of their other games. This one left me disappointed. I felt like it was a marketing ploy, sell half the game for $60 and sell the rest on as DLC. That's not a good feeling and a depressing looks at what the industry as a whole is becoming. Yahtzee said it best, if this were to have a subtitle is would be "Dragon Age 2: The Intermission".

Modifié par MelfinaofOutlawStar, 31 mars 2011 - 07:20 .


#1516
Lumikki

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After playing now hole game.

I liked how many quests can have different outcomes, based choises you made in quest and companions you are with. I like how Aveline and Varric feels like normal people, not so exreme people with mental sickness, because something happen in they past. I like how npcs walks around to give íllusion of city been more alive.

How ever, there is small issues.

Many quest you have blocked player to exploring anything, like inside quests the path is rail roaded, there is very little room to explore anyting. Example some houses doors are locked without any real reason. Why not allow player to explore, even if there is no enemies there. Meaning, many quest is too linear as path what player can choose. Also, there isn't enough alternative ways to do quest. It's allways talk or fight. There is not other possibility. How about sneak pass and not talk or fight.

Second linearity is in the main story. While it's fine to have linear story, because it's story what is told. I how ever feel, if there is major choises made related main story, it should make some difference. When you play first time, it doesn't much matter, because you can only make one choise. How ever, when you replay the game areas with same or new character, you notice that you choises has absolute zero meaning. Meaning if you choose totally different, the outcome is still exactly same. What cause for player, like why choose at all, if it doesn't really matter.

As general feeling after the game. I would say, while combat was some way improvement, it has still aspect what can be improved. One of the aspect would be more tactical plan before doing actions, the waves of enemies poping from nowhere doesn't really leave much room for it. You can't really sneak, take peak about enemies and then lay a trap or design a plan to how to defeat them. I don't much have to say on the issues, because others have been told it here many times.

What I missed most was feeling like I was in adventure. I mean when you really have good adventure in games, it's most the time traveling because player has some purpose and seeing new wonderful locations. Think about books, like The Lord of the Rings, Tales of Belgarion or Forgoten Realm. Most time time it's group of people traveling as they try to do something. It may be well used way to tell story, but it allows reader/player to see different location. Now hole DA2 game feeled very small, because there wasn't much exploration or traveling at all.

What I have hated allways in Biowares games is that I have to solve personal problems. I mean why every companion has some personal problem what needs to be solved? Now I'm fine helping companions or even other npcs, but I should not make decission behave of them. Companions and npcs should them self know what they want and make they own choises. Just because I'm as main character affecting the situation, it doesn't mean I make all the decissions behave of others. There is different when choise is personal one and "mission" related.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 avril 2011 - 12:39 .


#1517
danny jones 99

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Dragon age 2 combat is better, the buttons feel more responsive an the abilities are alot better to use, also no more shuffling around a target to hit it, overall the combat is definitely improved. The story is somewhat detached, all over the place and these is not enough choice in the main quests, too linear (not expected from bioware) but it does come together towards the end. Dragon age 2 does NOT fail miserably it is a decent game. however spawning enemies is just out of date an s**t. There are also numerous game killing bugs in the game that i would've gladly w8d 6-12 months for bioware to fix b4 release. Also no armor customization for companions,recycling areas(over an over, like u go in2 the same hightown estate map like 10-15,same 4 dungeons etc) was extremely lazy by the devs and allowed for quick turnover of a mediocre game to get fast profits. Decent game but has many flaws even with a future patch the game would only get a generous 7/10. Hoping DA3 devs will have more time to release a better standard game with less bugs, better story and full companion accessory customization, for f**k sake dont spawn enemies from the sky, less wasteful inventory(the junk is pointless and theres way to much of it), more abilities for all classes. Just take your time bioware, give us a better game or you will lose fans/customers

#1518
Baramon

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Need a weapon-set toggle --- NOW!!  I like to dual-purpose rogues and fighters by having one ranged set and one melee set (or two of each).  DAO and Awakening almost had it perfect.  The slash (/) toggle switch would swap two sets of weapons of your choosing back and forth.  Want that back!!

Don't ever re-use dungeon layouts in multiple areas.  EVER!!  This is not negotiable, excusable, nor forgivable!  Just - don't - do - it. Period.  Re-visiting certain areas is borderline inexcusable, but *sigh* -- okay, I can live with it.

Fix the bugs.

#1519
Shadovar

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I purchased Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age: Awakenings well after the release of Origins... simply because I thought it was going to be a dull hack and slash type game.  Boy was I wrong.  The character immersion, custom developments, NPC interractions... all AMAZING.  I expected so much from Dragon Age 2 thinking Bioware would build upon an already superb game.

Then I played it.

You basically killed the interraction between the main plot character and NPC's.  Dialogue is almost non-existant.  You cannot customize your character as much.  No additional races to play other than human.  Cannot equip your NPC's in gear sets you find.  Too much homosexuality which really lead to it becoming annoying.  Not enough customization of the NPC abilities... like why can't Bethany become a spirit healer?

I'm sorry... but all the reviews you post of 9/10, 4.5/5, etc... I think its biased to say the least.  This game didn't come close to what Dragon Age: Origins was.  To be honest... after playing DA2 the only thing I wanted to do was put it in a drawer and then play DA: Origins again.

#1520
Horus Blackheart

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I know the devs wanted to stremline dog so it did not take up a party slot. But frankly the poor beast was nutered combat ablity wise. I would have like to have seen dog level up with hawk perhaps when the first specalisations are unlocked.

As it sands dog is prity usless why not put him directly in the party when called give him some tactics? like the sommoned creatures in D&D.

Inovation is good but please next time the devs inovate try to avoid taking tips from deus ex invisable war, It's older brother is much wiser.

#1521
cpcharacter

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I would like to see more options for relationships.  You should be able to have both sides enemies and lovers depending on how you play.  I don't like the limits and feel that having the end story being altered by it would be very cool.  It is nice to have that aspect to lose yourself in your character even if just a little bit.  Its just that there are some you don't have a chance with and that is a bit dissapointing.

#1522
HawXV2

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Shadovar wrote...

I purchased Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age: Awakenings well after the release of Origins... simply because I thought it was going to be a dull hack and slash type game.  Boy was I wrong.  The character immersion, custom developments, NPC interractions... all AMAZING.  I expected so much from Dragon Age 2 thinking Bioware would build upon an already superb game.

Then I played it.

You basically killed the interraction between the main plot character and NPC's.  Dialogue is almost non-existant.  You cannot customize your character as much.  No additional races to play other than human.  Cannot equip your NPC's in gear sets you find.  Too much homosexuality which really lead to it becoming annoying.  Not enough customization of the NPC abilities... like why can't Bethany become a spirit healer?

I'm sorry... but all the reviews you post of 9/10, 4.5/5, etc... I think its biased to say the least.  This game didn't come close to what Dragon Age: Origins was.  To be honest... after playing DA2 the only thing I wanted to do was put it in a drawer and then play DA: Origins again.


Don't care.

#1523
PureGold_Au

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I am afraid I have to agree with Hawxv2 pretty completly.. It was still a great game but could have been better..

But something you would have to do with Dragon Age 3 is take your time, the game must get its before you, take it slow.. Dont rush your.. artistic strokes...

But seriously do it.. If EA or anybody else protests just.. use the old : "but all the other developers got more time.. Bethesda got 6 whole years :(... I WAAAANT IIIIIT.. Ill walk the dog more often.." That or you can just start singing sensual seduction

#1524
headcrusher666

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tactical view please !!!.. yea i know its been said lots of time but still .. and please no exploding enemies or mobs falling from nowhere ....

#1525
Lumikki

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There is few thing that I miss in "combat".

1. Ability order my group to follow me when in combat. Like they do when out of combat. I don't like how they start running in every direction and doing actions.
2. Ability hold or free move, for every induvidual group member induvidually.
3. In tactics ability check also positive effects too, so that two same kind of buff would not be active same time. Example haste.
4. When combat starts after cut scene, I would like to have option it start with pause on. I allways pause first and look situation, why not allow it happen automaticly as option for players.
5. Rogue ability switch between bow and daggers with one click. Warrior ability switch between two hand weapon and one hand weapon+shield. Or allow hotbar icon action change the weapons from fly.
6. Friendly fire as toggle option. Can be off as default settings.
7. Allow companions pick they own targets and not just follow player targets. This is problem when player is range attacker, because tank starts running middle of battle field after defeating her own targets toward player or player target, because player is attacking different target and far away.

Modifié par Lumikki, 01 avril 2011 - 12:37 .