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Constructive Criticism


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#1801
rcollins1701

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System: PS3

Just finished my second playthrough and started my third. Constructive criticism is as follows:

Area Maps:
I've found that the reused maps didn't bother me so much as the load times. The load times weren't long, but they were too frequent. Many of the quests required the player to load several areas in order to finish the quest and this resulted in a lot of load screens and sometimes made quests feel like a chore. Aveline's romance quest ("The Long Road", I believe) is a good example. It's a great quest, but a lot of loading. On my second playthrough, instead of following a quest, I would finish everything there was on one map before leaving. This eliminated a lot of the grinding, but broke immersion in that it interrupted plot lines and continuity. Perhaps more quests could be finished on one map or I would be willing to sit through longer load times if the maps were bigger. For example, I would be willing to sit for a longer load screen when I go to Lowtown if The Hanged Man and Lirene's Ferelden Imports, Gamlen's House and everything else loaded as well.

Companions:
I would always like more conversation with my companions. I like the Awakening model—scripted landmarks and areas instead of clicking on them wherever as in DA:O—but would like to be able to initiate Origins-style dialogue at the companion base. That is, like Shepard can go a round the Normandy and talk to his crew whenever he wants but not during missions, Hawke should be able to talk to Isabela and Varric whenever he's in the Hanged Man and likewise for the others at their respective home bases.
As for their armor, I defer to JedTed who said it already:

JedTed wrote...
Companion Armor:

Unlike most people, i like my companions in static outfits with upgradable armor.  However i think this idea could be taken even further by creating more armor upgrades geared toward your companions, not just one or two items found in each act.  Maybe have one upgrade that give a bonus to the defense boost of Isabela's Savvy talent.

These upgrades could also make subtle changes to the companion's outfit, giving you a reason to collect them aside from just making your companions more powerful.


Items:
The simplification of all of the accessories seems to be a little counter-productive. If the simplification of inventory from the DA:O model was to help eliminate game-time wasted comparing an endless amount of rings and amulets, the DA2 system makes that even more necessary. There are a lot of items that have similar effects but to different degrees. Instead of naming every ring "Ring" perhaps the rings that improve mana regen and fire damage could be called "Fire Band" or something indicative of its effect. That way the player just has to compare stars to pick the best ring of that type rather than clicking back and forth through all the rings to see what their effects are and then which one is better.
This isn't a problem, just a polite request. It would also be nice to have more evolving items like Bianca and Fadeshear (and the Grey Warden Commander armor in DA:O). And not just weapons, either. (If the Champion Armor was evolving it would be even more awesome!) Also, as an XP junky, I would love to see more items that give a boost to XP (like the Lion of Orlais). Of course, for balance, these items should be very hard to acquire.

New Game+:
The level cap, I believe, is now 50, though in both playthroughs I've finished at around level 22-26. It would greatly increase replayability if there were an option to start the game again at your current level. Even after the final act, I still want to play that character, a NG+ would allow me to do that.

Anyhow, I tried to make this as constructive and useful as possible. Loved the game, and eagerly awaiting DLC…

#1802
Shoku_Smurf

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I don't know if Bioware people are still reading this because I only got three pages in before I decided to post, so sorry if I just repeat what everyone else is saying without contributing anything fresh =[

First, love your game, love you guys, your awesome, so thats that out of the way! Now, to constructively criticize:

The characters were, as per usual, awesome, and the little conversations they have between each other while plodding around were cool. Still, I would like to be able to stop and talk about where we are or what just happened in detail, rather than getting a brief "oh Hello Hawke... talk to me at my house!" then waiting until I complete enough main quest to unlock a conversation. For example, I love Merril and don't really care about Aveline, but I still talk to them both the exact same amount because every conversation is a quest, I don't get to learn more about Merril or Carver by bringing them places, which is kind of annoying because characters I spend barely any time with are just as attached to me as people I actually like! I ALWAYS have Merril in my party, but people who never even use her get to talk to her just as much... Yeah, please bring back walking around in depth character building conversations

Maybe have a zoom function for text, or allow us to select the font size? I dont have all that big a television and have to squint, I remember pausing my game trying to read Tal-Vashoth and not having a clue what it said. Also, I cant read the loading screens


I miss heroic stats... for example 'Alaistair is awesome, has dealt 216,036 damage and killed 979 enemies and his most powerful foe slain is yo mama' was so cool, it recorded the stats and downs and everything for all party members, but that is missing in DA2... if you had the ability to make it, why couldnt you just use the same engine or whatever to keep the recorder?


Item descriptions are cool. Bring them back.



While I realize Hawke is some dude/dudette and not a Grey Warden in charge of saving the world from a blight, it would be nice to feel like my decisions carried some visible weight, rather than getting a letter telling me I am a super nice lady from people I help

I actually really like the rogue mechanic of 'Oh no he poofed into smoke, whos he going to stab!!! AHHH!" but occasionally it is just an unfair game ended, so maybe dont let him use that move every 5 seconds in the next game?


I love you guys at Bioware, I know you have no time to reply to me personally or anything but I would really really appreciate if you could adress these issues, Dragon age:Origins is my ties favourite game ever, and Dragon Age 2 is just as good, it would be better if it had been given more time =]


Alistair rules in Dragon Age: Origins, Merril in Dragon age 2. I kept both of them, in those respective games, in my party at all times, there should be some sort of 'wow, you really really like spending time with them' reward or mini game or dance-off or something!

#1803
Nefla

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What I liked:
-I was unsure about having a voiced character at first. I thought it would pigeonhole us into having one type of character like Shepard in ME but I actually ended up really liking it. I thought the voice actors had a good range of emotion.
-Tone icons for dialogue options. Another worry I had with the ME style dialogue wheel is that with paraphrasing you didn't know what your character was actually going to say. I liked that the icons prevented you from making an unintentional choice like flirting with someone.
-The voice actors: I thought the entire voice cast was really good.
-I loved that a consistent personality changed how Hawke delivered lines and also opened up persuede options in certain conversations.
-I actually liked that warriors and rogues no longer shared weapon skills. In origins they were kind of merged into one class.
-I liked all the new hairstyles and the fact that you could pick the old ones too. I also loved the wide range of eye colors and how bright some of them were. In origins I never knew what color eyes my characters had.
-I liked the party banters a lot, the characters teasing each other was cute and funny. Also liked characters visiting each other while I wasn't there. It made them seem more real.

What I was mixed about:
-The battle system: I did like the faster pace, especially with warriors and rogues. I liked that the slow shuffle was pretty much gone, and the new rogue moves that allowed you to instantly move behind an enemy. I didn't like how few abilities there were compared to origins, it seemed like there were a lot but most of it was upgrades.
-I didn't like being forced into being one race/character, but I understand the need in the context of the story and the short development time, otherwise it would be under dislikes
-The romances: I really liked Fenris' romance in particular, but I wish you were able to have more interaction with your LI. They feel like really quick romances with people you don't really know very well.
-I like the creepy art being used to illustrate Varric's narration, but I thought it was done better in the beginning of origins, and I wish there had been more actual cutscenes showing your updates.

What I disliked:
-Re-used maps: I hated this SO much. If there's anything that will remind you you're playing a game, it's going through the same copy/pasted maps 30x. Even the NPCs know it's all the same map. I remember one time I had Anders' tranquil solution quest active but I went to the bone pit or somewhere on a different quest and he says his "don't tell anyone about this way into the gallows, etc..." line in that map.
-Waves of weak, mass produced enemies attacking you for no reason. They were annoying and a chore, it totally broke immersion to see them falling out of the sky and exploding when you killed them. I would much rather have fewer, stronger enemies that at least have some reason to attack you.
-The world seemed static, empty, and dead. There were very few townspeople and you couldn't interact with any of them. Even at the very least being able to ask ths standard "where can I get a drink/shop/etc..." to a guard or something would have made it feel less like me and my companions were pretty much the only people in Kirkwall.
-The music: there was so little music. Most of the game seemed pretty silent with music only during battle or sometimes very quietly in the background of a scene. This contributed to the dead feeling to me since music enhances emotion and mood. I really noted the difference when I played ME2 again last night. The music was so stirring and made you feel inspired/tense/sad/etc... depending on the scene.
-Accessories not being unique: I loved getting new awesome accessories that were unique rather than "ornate belt #7166" that had different stats than other ornate belts but the same name. 
-No item descriptions: I loved reading all the weapon/armor/accessory descriptions in origins and learing a little more about the world with each one, it was another little touch that made the world feel more alive.
-Not being able to change your companion's armor. It made sense for Aveline since her armor was a uniform, but for chatacters like Isabella...why would you be wearing the same clothes for 7 years? It was unrealistic and I got sick of seeing them all in the same outfit all the time.
-Limited conversations/interactions with companions. I loved all the dialogue in origins and that you could stop and talk to your companions anywhere. It seems like in DA2 you should be able to talk to your companions MORE and have even deeper conversations since you've known them for years but it ends up seeming like you hardly know your companions or only know them on a superficial level.
-Hawke's origins/the beginning of the game. I remember it being said by the devs that in origins it felt like your character had washed up on a beach somewhere and they didn't want to do that for DA2. The complete opposite is true. In origins, no matter what your origin was you got a feel for the world, started learing about your character's culture, and got introduced to their life pre-campaign. You were shown rather than told. For example as an alienage elf you're introduced to your life as an average person trying to make the best of your bad situation. The storytelling was really good and you really felt as if your character had a life, got attached to their father, cousins, and people. In DA2 you don't have any of that. You're just randomly running on a road. There are no other refugees, you don't see any of the destruction of your village or your life before. You're not even really told much about it. All you know about your character's past is that they were on the run from templars and they lived on the outskirts of the village. I would have liked a bit of lead in where you see a bit of your normal life before (the calm before the storm) and actually flee the destruction of your village, leaving your destroyed home and dead friends and neighbors behind. It would have given much more of a sense of urgency and loss. As it was I felt nothing.
-The fact that your choices have no effect on anything. You save Grace and the other blood mages? Well too bad because she still decides to hate you and get her "revenge" later. Force Feynriel into to the circle even though you know how cruel they are and that he's pretty much doomed? Well that's ok since he considers you his BFF no matter what you do. I was especially annoyed with Orsino and Meredith at the end.
-Disjointed/unfinished feeling plot. Each arc has it's own mini plot and they don't tie together well. Even within each mini plot there is very little going on and the plot feels almost non-existent. In fact the first time I played the game I thought "oh look at all these fun random little sidequests, I can't wait 'til I get to the main story!" and then the game was over.
-Random useless junk: it would be better if more enemies dropped coin rather than crap that clogs up your inventory and you can only sell.
-Junk delivery quests: annoying and stupid
-All of the quests were short and easy: this is one of the reasons I thought they were sidequests. There's no exploration since all the maps are reused, there are no puzzles or things you have to figure out. As much as people have whinned about how long the deep roads and the fade were to replay in origins, they were interesting, fun, they made you think, there were story points within the dungeons and not just within. There were so many things to do and find. In DA2 almost every quest boils down to: go to cave/warehouse/lowtown house and kill some enemies. That's all.
-The redesign of pre-existing characters and races: Alistair, Teagan, and Zevran were all very cool looking and attractive in origins and in DA2 they looked hideous. (Leliana and Cullen looked good). The elves looked good in origins and in DA2 they look like an annorexic mix between Gollum from LoTR and the Navi. The qunari all look exactly the same with the Arishok and Saarebas being slightly different. Getting to know Sten in origins made me really interested in the Qunari, making me think they were an interesting looking people with a culture I'd like to know more about. DA2 made them into random generic beastmen that didn't hold my attention at all.
-Nothing changes as time goes on. It seems pointless to me to make the game over a several year period when you don't actually show the passage of time. The same people are still standing where they were 6 years ago, the same shops are selling the same things, the city looks the same, nothing new has been built, nothing has been torn down or vandalized, everyone is wearing the exact same clothing. I don't feel like i'm experiencing the passage of time at all.
-Contrary to advertising, Hawke doesn't feel epic at all. You never have any badass moments (well there's ONE if you're a rogue on the wayward son quest) or moments of great heroism or self sacrifice. I thought since the game was going in a mass effect direction you woule be able to have a more epic character like Shepard. (headbutting Krogans, throwing guys out windows, saving every single crazed colonist at great personal risk)
**edited to add**
-Mages! The game gives you very little empathy for the mages. In origins mages weren't allowed to leave the tower at all unless they were on some official circle business. They were manipulated and tricked and tempted to use blood magic (by the first enchanter and knight commander) to see if they would resist and if they didn't they were made tranquil or killed. If a mage became pregnant, their child was taken away against their will. Also very few mages seemed to have turned apostate/blood mage until Uldred rallied them all. You really got a feel for the unjustified oppression. In DA2 mages can aparently leave the gallows at any time although they are supposed to ask for permission. It felt more like a teenager being grounded (yet not enforced) than a prison. You get no indication that they're being pressured into blood magic although pretty much EVERY mage you come across turns to blood magic/demons for little to no reason. You can be about to save a mage from some templars yet they decide to contract with a demon and become an abomination instead. O_o Add Anders being super militant and confrontational about mages all the time. Frankly it's hard to feel sympathy for them even if you're a mage yourself. On the other hand the templars are so uninteresting and one dimensional and you're almost always doing their job for them so you can't really feel anything for them either. Since the whole plot is mages vs templars you should have strong feelings about the issue but no. It doesn't help that the ending battles and the end itself are the same no matter which side you choose.

I know it doesn't seem like it, but I did like the game, I was just very disapointed with it. I loved the first game so much and I made the mistake of stalking the forums waiting for DA2 to come out and hyped myself up. DA2 was "pretty good" but I expected a lot better from Bioware. I'm also feeling kind of left out since it seems as though DA2 was made to cater to a new, casual audience. I hope it's a one time thing and this isn't a permanent new direction. It's happened before with companies I liked, Nintendo switching their target audience to housewives, square-enix making childish games for preteen girls like ffx-2, kingdom hearts, and all those ff7 spinoffs. :(

Modifié par Nefla, 11 avril 2011 - 02:31 .


#1804
MorrigansLove

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Nefla wrote...

What I liked:
-I was unsure about having a voiced character at first. I thought it would pigeonhole us into having one type of character like Shepard in ME but I actually ended up really liking it. I thought the voice actors had a good range of emotion.
-Tone icons for dialogue options. Another worry I had with the ME style dialogue wheel is that with paraphrasing you didn't know what your character was actually going to say. I liked that the icons prevented you from making an unintentional choice like flirting with someone.
-The voice actors: I thought the entire voice cast was really good.
-I loved that a consistent personality changed how Hawke delivered lines and also opened up persuede options in certain conversations.
-I actually liked that warriors and rogues no longer shared weapon skills. In origins they were kind of merged into one class.
-I liked all the new hairstyles and the fact that you could pick the old ones too. I also loved the wide range of eye colors and how bright some of them were. In origins I never knew what color eyes my characters had.
-I liked the party banters a lot, the characters teasing each other was cute and funny. Also liked characters visiting each other while I wasn't there. It made them seem more real.

What I was mixed about:
-The battle system: I did like the faster pace, especially with warriors and rogues. I liked that the slow shuffle was pretty much gone, and the new rogue moves that allowed you to instantly move behind an enemy. I didn't like how few abilities there were compared to origins, it seemed like there were a lot but most of it was upgrades.
-I didn't like being forced into being one race/character, but I understand the need in the context of the story and the short development time, otherwise it would be under dislikes
-The romances: I really liked Fenris' romance in particular, but I wish you were able to have more interaction with your LI. They feel like really quick romances with people you don't really know very well.
-I like the creepy art being used to illustrate Varric's narration, but I thought it was done better in the beginning of origins, and I wish there had been more actual cutscenes showing your updates.

What I disliked:
-Re-used maps: I hated this SO much. If there's anything that will remind you you're playing a game, it's going through the same copy/pasted maps 30x. Even the NPCs know it's all the same map. I remember one time I had Anders' tranquil solution quest active but I went to the bone pit or somewhere on a different quest and he says his "don't tell anyone about this way into the gallows, etc..." line in that map.
-Waves of weak, mass produced enemies attacking you for no reason. They were annoying and a chore, it totally broke immersion to see them falling out of the sky and exploding when you killed them. I would much rather have fewer, stronger enemies that at least have some reason to attack you.
-The world seemed static, empty, and dead. There were very few townspeople and you couldn't interact with any of them. Even at the very least being able to ask ths standard "where can I get a drink/shop/etc..." to a guard or something would have made it feel less like me and my companions were pretty much the only people in Kirkwall.
-The music: there was so little music. Most of the game seemed pretty silent with music only during battle or sometimes very quietly in the background of a scene. This contributed to the dead feeling to me since music enhances emotion and mood. I really noted the difference when I played ME2 again last night. The music was so stirring and made you feel inspired/tense/sad/etc... depending on the scene.
-Accessories not being unique: I loved getting new awesome accessories that were unique rather than "ornate belt #7166" that had different stats than other ornate belts but the same name. 
-No item descriptions: I loved reading all the weapon/armor/accessory descriptions in origins and learing a little more about the world with each one, it was another little touch that made the world feel more alive.
-Not being able to change your companion's armor. It made sense for Aveline since her armor was a uniform, but for chatacters like Isabella...why would you be wearing the same clothes for 7 years? It was unrealistic and I got sick of seeing them all in the same outfit all the time.
-Limited conversations/interactions with companions. I loved all the dialogue in origins and that you could stop and talk to your companions anywhere. It seems like in DA2 you should be able to talk to your companions MORE and have even deeper conversations since you've known them for years but it ends up seeming like you hardly know your companions or only know them on a superficial level.
-Hawke's origins/the beginning of the game. I remember it being said by the devs that in origins it felt like your character had washed up on a beach somewhere and they didn't want to do that for DA2. The complete opposite is true. In origins, no matter what your origin was you got a feel for the world, started learing about your character's culture, and got introduced to their life pre-campaign. You were shown rather than told. For example as an alienage elf you're introduced to your life as an average person trying to make the best of your bad situation. The storytelling was really good and you really felt as if your character had a life, got attached to their father, cousins, and people. In DA2 you don't have any of that. You're just randomly running on a road. There are no other refugees, you don't see any of the destruction of your village or your life before. You're not even really told much about it. All you know about your character's past is that they were on the run from templars and they lived on the outskirts of the village. I would have liked a bit of lead in where you see a bit of your normal life before (the calm before the storm) and actually flee the destruction of your village, leaving your destroyed home and dead friends and neighbors behind. It would have given much more of a sense of urgency and loss. As it was I felt nothing.
-The fact that your choices have no effect on anything. You save Grace and the other blood mages? Well too bad because she still decides to hate you and get her "revenge" later. Force Feynriel into to the circle even though you know how cruel they are and that he's pretty much doomed? Well that's ok since he considers you his BFF no matter what you do. I was especially annoyed with Orsino and Meredith at the end.
-Disjointed/unfinished feeling plot. Each arc has it's own mini plot and they don't tie together well. Even within each mini plot there is very little going on and the plot feels almost non-existent. In fact the first time I played the game I thought "oh look at all these fun random little sidequests, I can't wait 'til I get to the main story!" and then the game was over.
-Random useless junk: it would be better if more enemies dropped coin rather than crap that clogs up your inventory and you can only sell.
-Junk delivery quests: annoying and stupid
-All of the quests were short and easy: this is one of the reasons I thought they were sidequests. There's no exploration since all the maps are reused, there are no puzzles or things you have to figure out. As much as people have whinned about how long the deep roads and the fade were to replay in origins, they were interesting, fun, they made you think, there were story points within the dungeons and not just within. There were so many things to do and find. In DA2 almost every quest boils down to: go to cave/warehouse/lowtown house and kill some enemies. That's all.
-The redesign of pre-existing characters and races: Alistair, Teagan, and Zevran were all very cool looking and attractive in origins and in DA2 they looked hideous. (Leliana and Cullen looked good). The elves looked good in origins and in DA2 they look like an annorexic mix between Gollum from LoTR and the Navi. The qunari all look exactly the same with the Arishok and Saarebas being slightly different. Getting to know Sten in origins made me really interested in the Qunari, making me think they were an interesting looking people with a culture I'd like to know more about. DA2 made them into random generic beastmen that didn't hold my attention at all.
-Nothing changes as time goes on. It seems pointless to me to make the game over a several year period when you don't actually show the passage of time. The same people are still standing where they were 6 years ago, the same shops are selling the same things, the city looks the same, nothing new has been built, nothing has been torn down or vandalized, everyone is wearing the exact same clothing. I don't feel like i'm experiencing the passage of time at all.
-Contrary to advertising, Hawke doesn't feel epic at all. You never have any badass moments (well there's ONE if you're a rogue on the wayward son quest) or moments of great heroism or self sacrifice. I thought since the game was going in a mass effect direction you woule be able to have a more epic character like Shepard. (headbutting Krogans, throwing guys out windows, saving every single crazed colonist at great personal risk)

I know it doesn't seem like it, but I did like the game, I was just very disapointed with it. I loved the first game so much and I made the mistake of stalking the forums waiting for DA2 to come out and hyped myself up. DA2 was "pretty good" but I expected a lot better from Bioware. I'm also feeling kind of left out since it seems as though DA2 was made to cater to a new, casual audience. I hope it's a one time thing and this isn't a permanent new direction. It's happened before with companies I liked, Nintendo switching their target audience to housewives, square-enix making childish games for preteen girls like ffx-2, kingdom hearts, and all those ff7 spinoffs. :(


Are you me? Because, I agree with EVERYTHING you just said.<3

#1805
erynnar

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I would like to do a constructive crit on particular parts of DA2 story which would have spoilers. But without a search bar I am left wondering where the official BioWare thread is for that, or if there is one?

Modifié par erynnar, 10 avril 2011 - 11:13 .


#1806
erynnar

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Okay anyone else notice in Act3 a random guy standing in one of the alcoves on the Wounded Coast labeled Bandit Leader. He does nothing. Lends air to the unfinished rushed feeling of the game.

#1807
MrProliferation

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erynnar wrote...

Okay anyone else notice in Act3 a random guy standing in one of the alcoves on the Wounded Coast labeled Bandit Leader. He does nothing. Lends air to the unfinished rushed feeling of the game.


That's a known bug, see the tech support forum.

#1808
Justin2k

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My criticism is that I find myself playing it for a few hours.. enjoying it.. then getting slightly bored and switching off.

And I may not come back to it for days.

There is just no.. I don't know what the word is. DA:O, Mass Effect and many other great games have me struggling to sleep, yet this is... very very bland.

It's just not all that great a game if I'm honest. The world, lore, characters etc are mostly fine. It just needed a lot more polish and needed to be more gripping. A better story and more maps would have helped a lot, as would a much better inventory system.

Lets be honest, you "fixed" a lot of things that weren't broke to begin with.

#1809
MrProliferation

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Here's something I think would be interesting. I understand the companions having the same armor except, in a few cases, they get an upgrade once you've done their quest (Aveline, Isabela, or if you romance Merrill and Fenris) What I think would really help the non-customizable armor would be if their armor visually changed when you got the different upgrades for them as the game went on. There are only four upgrades for each set of armor, so maybe each time it gets a little more complex and intricate looking? That would at least give the impression of development and make it feel more like progress when you upgraded each set of armor. I do like that each of the companions has a unique look and I"m not one for inventory micromanagement, but having them look the same for almost the entire game no matter what got really tired. Changes in the armor when you collected the upgrades would help break that up.

Also, and I can't believe I'm saying this given how much I hated how much the Fade and the Deep Roads dragged on in DAO, MORE FADE AND DEEP ROADS! I'm probably going to get my fill of that in whatever the DLC is, though. Is it too much to hope for a DLC focusing on Carver or Bethany's time in the Gray Wardens?

#1810
erynnar

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MorrigansLove wrote...

Nefla wrote...

What I liked:
-I was unsure about having a voiced character at first. I thought it would pigeonhole us into having one type of character like Shepard in ME but I actually ended up really liking it. I thought the voice actors had a good range of emotion.
-Tone icons for dialogue options. Another worry I had with the ME style dialogue wheel is that with paraphrasing you didn't know what your character was actually going to say. I liked that the icons prevented you from making an unintentional choice like flirting with someone.
-The voice actors: I thought the entire voice cast was really good.
-I loved that a consistent personality changed how Hawke delivered lines and also opened up persuede options in certain conversations.
-I actually liked that warriors and rogues no longer shared weapon skills. In origins they were kind of merged into one class.
-I liked all the new hairstyles and the fact that you could pick the old ones too. I also loved the wide range of eye colors and how bright some of them were. In origins I never knew what color eyes my characters had.
-I liked the party banters a lot, the characters teasing each other was cute and funny. Also liked characters visiting each other while I wasn't there. It made them seem more real.

What I was mixed about:
-The battle system: I did like the faster pace, especially with warriors and rogues. I liked that the slow shuffle was pretty much gone, and the new rogue moves that allowed you to instantly move behind an enemy. I didn't like how few abilities there were compared to origins, it seemed like there were a lot but most of it was upgrades.
-I didn't like being forced into being one race/character, but I understand the need in the context of the story and the short development time, otherwise it would be under dislikes
-The romances: I really liked Fenris' romance in particular, but I wish you were able to have more interaction with your LI. They feel like really quick romances with people you don't really know very well.
-I like the creepy art being used to illustrate Varric's narration, but I thought it was done better in the beginning of origins, and I wish there had been more actual cutscenes showing your updates.

What I disliked:
-Re-used maps: I hated this SO much. If there's anything that will remind you you're playing a game, it's going through the same copy/pasted maps 30x. Even the NPCs know it's all the same map. I remember one time I had Anders' tranquil solution quest active but I went to the bone pit or somewhere on a different quest and he says his "don't tell anyone about this way into the gallows, etc..." line in that map.
-Waves of weak, mass produced enemies attacking you for no reason. They were annoying and a chore, it totally broke immersion to see them falling out of the sky and exploding when you killed them. I would much rather have fewer, stronger enemies that at least have some reason to attack you.
-The world seemed static, empty, and dead. There were very few townspeople and you couldn't interact with any of them. Even at the very least being able to ask ths standard "where can I get a drink/shop/etc..." to a guard or something would have made it feel less like me and my companions were pretty much the only people in Kirkwall.
-The music: there was so little music. Most of the game seemed pretty silent with music only during battle or sometimes very quietly in the background of a scene. This contributed to the dead feeling to me since music enhances emotion and mood. I really noted the difference when I played ME2 again last night. The music was so stirring and made you feel inspired/tense/sad/etc... depending on the scene.
-Accessories not being unique: I loved getting new awesome accessories that were unique rather than "ornate belt #7166" that had different stats than other ornate belts but the same name. 
-No item descriptions: I loved reading all the weapon/armor/accessory descriptions in origins and learing a little more about the world with each one, it was another little touch that made the world feel more alive.
-Not being able to change your companion's armor. It made sense for Aveline since her armor was a uniform, but for chatacters like Isabella...why would you be wearing the same clothes for 7 years? It was unrealistic and I got sick of seeing them all in the same outfit all the time.
-Limited conversations/interactions with companions. I loved all the dialogue in origins and that you could stop and talk to your companions anywhere. It seems like in DA2 you should be able to talk to your companions MORE and have even deeper conversations since you've known them for years but it ends up seeming like you hardly know your companions or only know them on a superficial level.
-Hawke's origins/the beginning of the game. I remember it being said by the devs that in origins it felt like your character had washed up on a beach somewhere and they didn't want to do that for DA2. The complete opposite is true. In origins, no matter what your origin was you got a feel for the world, started learing about your character's culture, and got introduced to their life pre-campaign. You were shown rather than told. For example as an alienage elf you're introduced to your life as an average person trying to make the best of your bad situation. The storytelling was really good and you really felt as if your character had a life, got attached to their father, cousins, and people. In DA2 you don't have any of that. You're just randomly running on a road. There are no other refugees, you don't see any of the destruction of your village or your life before. You're not even really told much about it. All you know about your character's past is that they were on the run from templars and they lived on the outskirts of the village. I would have liked a bit of lead in where you see a bit of your normal life before (the calm before the storm) and actually flee the destruction of your village, leaving your destroyed home and dead friends and neighbors behind. It would have given much more of a sense of urgency and loss. As it was I felt nothing.
-The fact that your choices have no effect on anything. You save Grace and the other blood mages? Well too bad because she still decides to hate you and get her "revenge" later. Force Feynriel into to the circle even though you know how cruel they are and that he's pretty much doomed? Well that's ok since he considers you his BFF no matter what you do. I was especially annoyed with Orsino and Meredith at the end.
-Disjointed/unfinished feeling plot. Each arc has it's own mini plot and they don't tie together well. Even within each mini plot there is very little going on and the plot feels almost non-existent. In fact the first time I played the game I thought "oh look at all these fun random little sidequests, I can't wait 'til I get to the main story!" and then the game was over.
-Random useless junk: it would be better if more enemies dropped coin rather than crap that clogs up your inventory and you can only sell.
-Junk delivery quests: annoying and stupid
-All of the quests were short and easy: this is one of the reasons I thought they were sidequests. There's no exploration since all the maps are reused, there are no puzzles or things you have to figure out. As much as people have whinned about how long the deep roads and the fade were to replay in origins, they were interesting, fun, they made you think, there were story points within the dungeons and not just within. There were so many things to do and find. In DA2 almost every quest boils down to: go to cave/warehouse/lowtown house and kill some enemies. That's all.
-The redesign of pre-existing characters and races: Alistair, Teagan, and Zevran were all very cool looking and attractive in origins and in DA2 they looked hideous. (Leliana and Cullen looked good). The elves looked good in origins and in DA2 they look like an annorexic mix between Gollum from LoTR and the Navi. The qunari all look exactly the same with the Arishok and Saarebas being slightly different. Getting to know Sten in origins made me really interested in the Qunari, making me think they were an interesting looking people with a culture I'd like to know more about. DA2 made them into random generic beastmen that didn't hold my attention at all.
-Nothing changes as time goes on. It seems pointless to me to make the game over a several year period when you don't actually show the passage of time. The same people are still standing where they were 6 years ago, the same shops are selling the same things, the city looks the same, nothing new has been built, nothing has been torn down or vandalized, everyone is wearing the exact same clothing. I don't feel like i'm experiencing the passage of time at all.
-Contrary to advertising, Hawke doesn't feel epic at all. You never have any badass moments (well there's ONE if you're a rogue on the wayward son quest) or moments of great heroism or self sacrifice. I thought since the game was going in a mass effect direction you woule be able to have a more epic character like Shepard. (headbutting Krogans, throwing guys out windows, saving every single crazed colonist at great personal risk)

I know it doesn't seem like it, but I did like the game, I was just very disapointed with it. I loved the first game so much and I made the mistake of stalking the forums waiting for DA2 to come out and hyped myself up. DA2 was "pretty good" but I expected a lot better from Bioware. I'm also feeling kind of left out since it seems as though DA2 was made to cater to a new, casual audience. I hope it's a one time thing and this isn't a permanent new direction. It's happened before with companies I liked, Nintendo switching their target audience to housewives, square-enix making childish games for preteen girls like ffx-2, kingdom hearts, and all those ff7 spinoffs. :(


Are you me? Because, I agree with EVERYTHING you just said.<3


She must have a split personality, and we are two of her voices...same here! :wub:

#1811
erynnar

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MrProliferation wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Okay anyone else notice in Act3 a random guy standing in one of the alcoves on the Wounded Coast labeled Bandit Leader. He does nothing. Lends air to the unfinished rushed feeling of the game.


That's a known bug, see the tech support forum.


Thank you MrP!!!! :kissing:

#1812
Cybermortis

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erynnar wrote...

I would like to do a constructive crit on particular parts of DA2 story which would have spoilers. But without a search bar I am left wondering where the official BioWare thread is for that, or if there is one?


I don't think there is one.

I *think* it may be acceptable to write minior spoilers in this thread providing to clearly indicate that at the start of the post. But...well I'd say don't quote me on that but you would anyway.

You could try PM'ing one of the Mods who's posted on here and checking with them - To me it seems daft to insist that this specific thread is spoiler free since almost everyone who's posted here has finished the game.

#1813
Morroian

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Nefla wrote...

-The fact that your choices have no effect on anything. You save Grace and the other blood mages? Well too bad because she still decides to hate you and get her "revenge" later. Force Feynriel into to the circle even though you know how cruel they are and that he's pretty much doomed? Well that's ok since he considers you his BFF no matter what you do. I was especially annoyed with Orsino and Meredith at the end. 

There are different outcomes for Feynriel depending on your choices, killed, in the circle, going to Tevinter.

Nefla wrote...

-Contrary to advertising, Hawke doesn't feel epic at all. You never have any badass moments (well there's ONE if you're a rogue on the wayward son quest) or moments of great heroism or self sacrifice.

I felt pretty epic dueling the Arishok just to take 1 example.

#1814
erynnar

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Morroian wrote...

Nefla wrote...

-The fact that your choices have no effect on anything. You save Grace and the other blood mages? Well too bad because she still decides to hate you and get her "revenge" later. Force Feynriel into to the circle even though you know how cruel they are and that he's pretty much doomed? Well that's ok since he considers you his BFF no matter what you do. I was especially annoyed with Orsino and Meredith at the end. 

There are different outcomes for Feynriel depending on your choices, killed, in the circle, going to Tevinter.

Nefla wrote...

-Contrary to advertising, Hawke doesn't feel epic at all. You never have any badass moments (well there's ONE if you're a rogue on the wayward son quest) or moments of great heroism or self sacrifice.

I felt pretty epic dueling the Arishok just to take 1 example.


LOL! And I ran around screaming in a circle to the Benny Hill theme song to that fight. I was a bad ass then for sure! ROFL!:lol:

#1815
Guest_fibchopkin_*

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[quote]erynnar wrote...

[quote]Morroian wrote...

[quote]Nefla wrote...

-[quote]Nefla wrote...

-[/quote]

LOL! And I ran around screaming in a circle to the Benny Hill theme song to that fight. I was a bad ass then for sure! ROFL!:lol:

[/quote]

And the people said "AMEN!" 
I should say first that although I was annoyed to have seemingly contracted every crummy bug out there, I really enjoyed the game and will certainly reccommend it to friends after the patch comes out. 
I've read through most of the criticism and haven't seen this one yet, but there is a specific thread for it somewhere.  Oh, here.
The boss fights do not feel very well balanced- specifically the duel at the end of act II.  Aimo did this awesome cartoon that sums up my experience perfectly.  I never play a warrior, I'm always a rogue first, then sometimes a mage, so perhaps these battles are more suited to a tank.  Could we give the squishier classes a bone?  Is there any way to utilize the environment more?  I mean, I'm not demanding Monkey Island like environmental interaction or anything, but the only example I can think of in recent Bioware history is the dropping of the giant lyrium vat on the brood mothers in Awakenings.... Aaaaaand that was fairly obvious.  For that final Act II battle, couldn't we shoot down the giant chandeliers onto the boss's head?  Or maybe actually shove some of the bad guys into the lava in the deep roads, or off the edges of the cliffs on the wounded coast?  That's it really- the rest (reused maps, mind numbingly endless waves of low level bad guys etc) has already been said.

#1816
medusa_hair

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I began my third playthrough today just to get the trophy and intended only to get to Kirkwall, but I found playing as a mage MUCH more cool than I expected, so I will probably replay in its entirety again.

Here are a few more thoughts I have about improvements that could be made:
= please make lockpick an abilityas in DAO - otherwise we are forced to dump massive points into cunning in order to open locks, rather than into dexterity which is where I would prefer to put them.
= give us back persuade/intimidate please
= the act 2 villain was ridiculous. It had so much health that I ended up basically playing tag running around the room during cooldown. This is the fight that I am really dreading as a mage. This needs to be a little more in line with the difficulty of the other things you have been doing as a character. However, I will say that I thought I would outsmart it by running in a circle around a pillar and end up behind it, but it stopped and confronted me! nice AI!

Here's more about what I liked:
= I liked the shorter length quests (within reason). I have a life and this way I could reasonably say "I will stop when I am done with this quest" and actually be able to do it ;-)
= I didn't miss changing my companion's armor for the most part. Occasionally I thought "this would be great for [fill in the blank]" but overall it was a bit of business that I didn't care much for in the first place.
= I am finding mage much more fun that previously- cool spell animations and feels powerful.

Finally, on the subject of romance...I'd like to see a little more than just a passionate kiss when the romance is finally underway. Let's graduate to PG-13! After all, I know people take their clothes off (though apparently not in Thedas)...I'm sure that's probably not PC but we work hard for these romances ;-)

#1817
erynnar

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I would also like to not have a romance that feels forced with someone I have spoken to what, twice or three times tops?

#1818
Nefla

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erynnar wrote...

I would also like to not have a romance that feels forced with someone I have spoken to what, twice or three times tops?


I agree, that and having to flirt with them every time you have a dialogue choice or there is no romance. Can't you just talk to them and get to know them?

#1819
_Aine_

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erynnar wrote...

I would also like to not have a romance that feels forced with someone I have spoken to what, twice or three times tops?


Perfect romances for anti-socials or stoics though. You only have to get socially creative and verbal, what, once every 3-4 years?    Think of the money and emotional investment you would save!   The remote is ALWAYS yours!  The toilet seat is always down ( or up for you boys) .  You can spend your hard earned money on *yourselves* instead of dozens of flowers to excuse away whatever it was you said or did wrong yesterday.... 

Come on.  It may be a little creepy, but there is a small delectable bite of win in it too.  

:devil:

#1820
Merak88

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erynnar wrote...

I would also like to not have a romance that feels forced with someone I have spoken to what, twice or three times tops?


It is the pacing that is the issue.  I remember playing through ME1 my first time.  After asking Ashley about her family, the dialogue went straight into something about how Sheppard is so overcome with lust and how they cannot wait to get it on with eachother. 

I understand ME is a fictional world and maybe attraction and social courting rules differ, but how does a platonic work relationship go straight into crazed lust by a short conversation about one's sister?

#1821
erynnar

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Nefla wrote...

erynnar wrote...

I would also like to not have a romance that feels forced with someone I have spoken to what, twice or three times tops?


I
agree, that and having to flirt with them every time you have a
dialogue choice or there is no romance. Can't you just talk to them and
get to know them?


Exactly!!! I mean geeze, at least can I get dinner first?:lol:

shantisands wrote...

erynnar wrote...

I would also like to not have a romance that feels forced with someone I have spoken to what, twice or three times tops?


Perfect romances for anti-socials or stoics though. You only have to get socially creative and verbal, what, once every 3-4 years?    Think of the money and emotional investment you would save!   The remote is ALWAYS yours!  The toilet seat is always down ( or up for you boys) .  You can spend your hard earned money on *yourselves* instead of dozens of flowers to excuse away whatever it was you said or did wrong yesterday.... 

Come on.  It may be a little creepy, but there is a small delectable bite of win in it too.  

:devil:



anti-social sounds like my hubby! You made me spit my wine on my keyboard! :o

#1822
T-0pel

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Sry for double post.

Modifié par T-0pel, 11 avril 2011 - 10:12 .


#1823
T-0pel

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Nefla wrote...

What I liked:
-I was unsure about having a voiced character at first. I thought it would pigeonhole us into having one type of character like Shepard in ME but I actually ended up really liking it. I thought the voice actors had a good range of emotion.
-Tone icons for dialogue options. Another worry I had with the ME style dialogue wheel is that with paraphrasing you didn't know what your character was actually going to say. I liked that the icons prevented you from making an unintentional choice like flirting with someone.
-The voice actors: I thought the entire voice cast was really good.
-I loved that a consistent personality changed how Hawke delivered lines and also opened up persuede options in certain conversations.
-I actually liked that warriors and rogues no longer shared weapon skills. In origins they were kind of merged into one class.
-I liked all the new hairstyles and the fact that you could pick the old ones too. I also loved the wide range of eye colors and how bright some of them were. In origins I never knew what color eyes my characters had.
-I liked the party banters a lot, the characters teasing each other was cute and funny. Also liked characters visiting each other while I wasn't there. It made them seem more real.

What I was mixed about:
-The battle system: I did like the faster pace, especially with warriors and rogues. I liked that the slow shuffle was pretty much gone, and the new rogue moves that allowed you to instantly move behind an enemy. I didn't like how few abilities there were compared to origins, it seemed like there were a lot but most of it was upgrades.
-I didn't like being forced into being one race/character, but I understand the need in the context of the story and the short development time, otherwise it would be under dislikes
-The romances: I really liked Fenris' romance in particular, but I wish you were able to have more interaction with your LI. They feel like really quick romances with people you don't really know very well.
-I like the creepy art being used to illustrate Varric's narration, but I thought it was done better in the beginning of origins, and I wish there had been more actual cutscenes showing your updates.

What I disliked:
-Re-used maps: I hated this SO much. If there's anything that will remind you you're playing a game, it's going through the same copy/pasted maps 30x. Even the NPCs know it's all the same map. I remember one time I had Anders' tranquil solution quest active but I went to the bone pit or somewhere on a different quest and he says his "don't tell anyone about this way into the gallows, etc..." line in that map.
-Waves of weak, mass produced enemies attacking you for no reason. They were annoying and a chore, it totally broke immersion to see them falling out of the sky and exploding when you killed them. I would much rather have fewer, stronger enemies that at least have some reason to attack you.
-The world seemed static, empty, and dead. There were very few townspeople and you couldn't interact with any of them. Even at the very least being able to ask ths standard "where can I get a drink/shop/etc..." to a guard or something would have made it feel less like me and my companions were pretty much the only people in Kirkwall.
-The music: there was so little music. Most of the game seemed pretty silent with music only during battle or sometimes very quietly in the background of a scene. This contributed to the dead feeling to me since music enhances emotion and mood. I really noted the difference when I played ME2 again last night. The music was so stirring and made you feel inspired/tense/sad/etc... depending on the scene.
-Accessories not being unique: I loved getting new awesome accessories that were unique rather than "ornate belt #7166" that had different stats than other ornate belts but the same name. 
-No item descriptions: I loved reading all the weapon/armor/accessory descriptions in origins and learing a little more about the world with each one, it was another little touch that made the world feel more alive.
-Not being able to change your companion's armor. It made sense for Aveline since her armor was a uniform, but for chatacters like Isabella...why would you be wearing the same clothes for 7 years? It was unrealistic and I got sick of seeing them all in the same outfit all the time.
-Limited conversations/interactions with companions. I loved all the dialogue in origins and that you could stop and talk to your companions anywhere. It seems like in DA2 you should be able to talk to your companions MORE and have even deeper conversations since you've known them for years but it ends up seeming like you hardly know your companions or only know them on a superficial level.
-Hawke's origins/the beginning of the game. I remember it being said by the devs that in origins it felt like your character had washed up on a beach somewhere and they didn't want to do that for DA2. The complete opposite is true. In origins, no matter what your origin was you got a feel for the world, started learing about your character's culture, and got introduced to their life pre-campaign. You were shown rather than told. For example as an alienage elf you're introduced to your life as an average person trying to make the best of your bad situation. The storytelling was really good and you really felt as if your character had a life, got attached to their father, cousins, and people. In DA2 you don't have any of that. You're just randomly running on a road. There are no other refugees, you don't see any of the destruction of your village or your life before. You're not even really told much about it. All you know about your character's past is that they were on the run from templars and they lived on the outskirts of the village. I would have liked a bit of lead in where you see a bit of your normal life before (the calm before the storm) and actually flee the destruction of your village, leaving your destroyed home and dead friends and neighbors behind. It would have given much more of a sense of urgency and loss. As it was I felt nothing.
-The fact that your choices have no effect on anything. You save Grace and the other blood mages? Well too bad because she still decides to hate you and get her "revenge" later. Force Feynriel into to the circle even though you know how cruel they are and that he's pretty much doomed? Well that's ok since he considers you his BFF no matter what you do. I was especially annoyed with Orsino and Meredith at the end.
-Disjointed/unfinished feeling plot. Each arc has it's own mini plot and they don't tie together well. Even within each mini plot there is very little going on and the plot feels almost non-existent. In fact the first time I played the game I thought "oh look at all these fun random little sidequests, I can't wait 'til I get to the main story!" and then the game was over.
-Random useless junk: it would be better if more enemies dropped coin rather than crap that clogs up your inventory and you can only sell.
-Junk delivery quests: annoying and stupid
-All of the quests were short and easy: this is one of the reasons I thought they were sidequests. There's no exploration since all the maps are reused, there are no puzzles or things you have to figure out. As much as people have whinned about how long the deep roads and the fade were to replay in origins, they were interesting, fun, they made you think, there were story points within the dungeons and not just within. There were so many things to do and find. In DA2 almost every quest boils down to: go to cave/warehouse/lowtown house and kill some enemies. That's all.
-The redesign of pre-existing characters and races: Alistair, Teagan, and Zevran were all very cool looking and attractive in origins and in DA2 they looked hideous. (Leliana and Cullen looked good). The elves looked good in origins and in DA2 they look like an annorexic mix between Gollum from LoTR and the Navi. The qunari all look exactly the same with the Arishok and Saarebas being slightly different. Getting to know Sten in origins made me really interested in the Qunari, making me think they were an interesting looking people with a culture I'd like to know more about. DA2 made them into random generic beastmen that didn't hold my attention at all.
-Nothing changes as time goes on. It seems pointless to me to make the game over a several year period when you don't actually show the passage of time. The same people are still standing where they were 6 years ago, the same shops are selling the same things, the city looks the same, nothing new has been built, nothing has been torn down or vandalized, everyone is wearing the exact same clothing. I don't feel like i'm experiencing the passage of time at all.
-Contrary to advertising, Hawke doesn't feel epic at all. You never have any badass moments (well there's ONE if you're a rogue on the wayward son quest) or moments of great heroism or self sacrifice. I thought since the game was going in a mass effect direction you woule be able to have a more epic character like Shepard. (headbutting Krogans, throwing guys out windows, saving every single crazed colonist at great personal risk)
**edited to add**
-Mages! The game gives you very little empathy for the mages. In origins mages weren't allowed to leave the tower at all unless they were on some official circle business. They were manipulated and tricked and tempted to use blood magic (by the first enchanter and knight commander) to see if they would resist and if they didn't they were made tranquil or killed. If a mage became pregnant, their child was taken away against their will. Also very few mages seemed to have turned apostate/blood mage until Uldred rallied them all. You really got a feel for the unjustified oppression. In DA2 mages can aparently leave the gallows at any time although they are supposed to ask for permission. It felt more like a teenager being grounded (yet not enforced) than a prison. You get no indication that they're being pressured into blood magic although pretty much EVERY mage you come across turns to blood magic/demons for little to no reason. You can be about to save a mage from some templars yet they decide to contract with a demon and become an abomination instead. O_o Add Anders being super militant and confrontational about mages all the time. Frankly it's hard to feel sympathy for them even if you're a mage yourself. On the other hand the templars are so uninteresting and one dimensional and you're almost always doing their job for them so you can't really feel anything for them either. Since the whole plot is mages vs templars you should have strong feelings about the issue but no. It doesn't help that the ending battles and the end itself are the same no matter which side you choose.

I know it doesn't seem like it, but I did like the game, I was just very disapointed with it. I loved the first game so much and I made the mistake of stalking the forums waiting for DA2 to come out and hyped myself up. DA2 was "pretty good" but I expected a lot better from Bioware. I'm also feeling kind of left out since it seems as though DA2 was made to cater to a new, casual audience. I hope it's a one time thing and this isn't a permanent new direction. It's happened before with companies I liked, Nintendo switching their target audience to housewives, square-enix making childish games for preteen girls like ffx-2, kingdom hearts, and all those ff7 spinoffs. :(


Great post, agree with almost everything, saved me a lot of writing. Will just add a few more things:

Graphics:
DX9 graphic didnt look that much better then DAO to me, DX11 I liked very much, BUT where are the details? The Fereldan location near Lothering… What was that?! So much potential, burning houses, people fleeing chased by darkspawn, dying vegetation -iInstead we got nothing, just a barren landscape with a very strange color… The vicinity of Sundermount was barren, with like 11 trees and the rest just looked like a planet from Mass Effect 1. The city was generic and reused the same buildings so much… I understand it was a „Minas Tirith“ type of city, so the buildings would look similar, nonetheless a bit more diversity would be better. The emptiness of the city and of most of the other locations was already mentioned.

Game balance:
-Huge differences between difficulties. A boss fight can take 30 min on hard and 3 min on Normal with the same party, didnt even try casual, would like some middle ground.
-Rogues are imba on both sides, I was able to deal around 35000 damage when executed properly. That is great, but it seems to me that the other clases dont have access to that kind of damage output. Which would also not be a problem if some  of your companions had the assassin specialization, which is the key one for higher difficulties because of the incredible burst damage.
-Liked the new skill trees.
-If you insist on keeping the wave system change it at least a bit. For example in a way that it wont be possible for 3 soldiers to appear out of thin air around your mage who was safely hidden in a corner. This together with the absence of overhead view really didnt work well, I was unable to have an 100 percent awarness of the battlefield.
-Two point system was also already mentioned even by the OP. And also it seemed to me that the Defense stat was mostly useless, at least in boss fights, because you get hit everytime by their AOE abilities anyway. Those
can kill a non warrior character insanely fast.

But even with 4 pages of critisim I enjoyed the game and am looking forward to
3rd playthrough when the second patch finally comes. :-)

Modifié par T-0pel, 11 avril 2011 - 10:16 .


#1824
Supreez

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erynnar wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Nefla wrote...

What I liked:
-I was unsure about having a voiced character at first. I thought it would pigeonhole us into having one type of character like Shepard in ME but I actually ended up really liking it. I thought the voice actors had a good range of emotion.
-Tone icons for dialogue options. Another worry I had with the ME style dialogue wheel is that with paraphrasing you didn't know what your character was actually going to say. I liked that the icons prevented you from making an unintentional choice like flirting with someone.
-The voice actors: I thought the entire voice cast was really good.
-I loved that a consistent personality changed how Hawke delivered lines and also opened up persuede options in certain conversations.
-I actually liked that warriors and rogues no longer shared weapon skills. In origins they were kind of merged into one class.
-I liked all the new hairstyles and the fact that you could pick the old ones too. I also loved the wide range of eye colors and how bright some of them were. In origins I never knew what color eyes my characters had.
-I liked the party banters a lot, the characters teasing each other was cute and funny. Also liked characters visiting each other while I wasn't there. It made them seem more real.

What I was mixed about:
-The battle system: I did like the faster pace, especially with warriors and rogues. I liked that the slow shuffle was pretty much gone, and the new rogue moves that allowed you to instantly move behind an enemy. I didn't like how few abilities there were compared to origins, it seemed like there were a lot but most of it was upgrades.
-I didn't like being forced into being one race/character, but I understand the need in the context of the story and the short development time, otherwise it would be under dislikes
-The romances: I really liked Fenris' romance in particular, but I wish you were able to have more interaction with your LI. They feel like really quick romances with people you don't really know very well.
-I like the creepy art being used to illustrate Varric's narration, but I thought it was done better in the beginning of origins, and I wish there had been more actual cutscenes showing your updates.

What I disliked:
-Re-used maps: I hated this SO much. If there's anything that will remind you you're playing a game, it's going through the same copy/pasted maps 30x. Even the NPCs know it's all the same map. I remember one time I had Anders' tranquil solution quest active but I went to the bone pit or somewhere on a different quest and he says his "don't tell anyone about this way into the gallows, etc..." line in that map.
-Waves of weak, mass produced enemies attacking you for no reason. They were annoying and a chore, it totally broke immersion to see them falling out of the sky and exploding when you killed them. I would much rather have fewer, stronger enemies that at least have some reason to attack you.
-The world seemed static, empty, and dead. There were very few townspeople and you couldn't interact with any of them. Even at the very least being able to ask ths standard "where can I get a drink/shop/etc..." to a guard or something would have made it feel less like me and my companions were pretty much the only people in Kirkwall.
-The music: there was so little music. Most of the game seemed pretty silent with music only during battle or sometimes very quietly in the background of a scene. This contributed to the dead feeling to me since music enhances emotion and mood. I really noted the difference when I played ME2 again last night. The music was so stirring and made you feel inspired/tense/sad/etc... depending on the scene.
-Accessories not being unique: I loved getting new awesome accessories that were unique rather than "ornate belt #7166" that had different stats than other ornate belts but the same name. 
-No item descriptions: I loved reading all the weapon/armor/accessory descriptions in origins and learing a little more about the world with each one, it was another little touch that made the world feel more alive.
-Not being able to change your companion's armor. It made sense for Aveline since her armor was a uniform, but for chatacters like Isabella...why would you be wearing the same clothes for 7 years? It was unrealistic and I got sick of seeing them all in the same outfit all the time.
-Limited conversations/interactions with companions. I loved all the dialogue in origins and that you could stop and talk to your companions anywhere. It seems like in DA2 you should be able to talk to your companions MORE and have even deeper conversations since you've known them for years but it ends up seeming like you hardly know your companions or only know them on a superficial level.
-Hawke's origins/the beginning of the game. I remember it being said by the devs that in origins it felt like your character had washed up on a beach somewhere and they didn't want to do that for DA2. The complete opposite is true. In origins, no matter what your origin was you got a feel for the world, started learing about your character's culture, and got introduced to their life pre-campaign. You were shown rather than told. For example as an alienage elf you're introduced to your life as an average person trying to make the best of your bad situation. The storytelling was really good and you really felt as if your character had a life, got attached to their father, cousins, and people. In DA2 you don't have any of that. You're just randomly running on a road. There are no other refugees, you don't see any of the destruction of your village or your life before. You're not even really told much about it. All you know about your character's past is that they were on the run from templars and they lived on the outskirts of the village. I would have liked a bit of lead in where you see a bit of your normal life before (the calm before the storm) and actually flee the destruction of your village, leaving your destroyed home and dead friends and neighbors behind. It would have given much more of a sense of urgency and loss. As it was I felt nothing.
-The fact that your choices have no effect on anything. You save Grace and the other blood mages? Well too bad because she still decides to hate you and get her "revenge" later. Force Feynriel into to the circle even though you know how cruel they are and that he's pretty much doomed? Well that's ok since he considers you his BFF no matter what you do. I was especially annoyed with Orsino and Meredith at the end.
-Disjointed/unfinished feeling plot. Each arc has it's own mini plot and they don't tie together well. Even within each mini plot there is very little going on and the plot feels almost non-existent. In fact the first time I played the game I thought "oh look at all these fun random little sidequests, I can't wait 'til I get to the main story!" and then the game was over.
-Random useless junk: it would be better if more enemies dropped coin rather than crap that clogs up your inventory and you can only sell.
-Junk delivery quests: annoying and stupid
-All of the quests were short and easy: this is one of the reasons I thought they were sidequests. There's no exploration since all the maps are reused, there are no puzzles or things you have to figure out. As much as people have whinned about how long the deep roads and the fade were to replay in origins, they were interesting, fun, they made you think, there were story points within the dungeons and not just within. There were so many things to do and find. In DA2 almost every quest boils down to: go to cave/warehouse/lowtown house and kill some enemies. That's all.
-The redesign of pre-existing characters and races: Alistair, Teagan, and Zevran were all very cool looking and attractive in origins and in DA2 they looked hideous. (Leliana and Cullen looked good). The elves looked good in origins and in DA2 they look like an annorexic mix between Gollum from LoTR and the Navi. The qunari all look exactly the same with the Arishok and Saarebas being slightly different. Getting to know Sten in origins made me really interested in the Qunari, making me think they were an interesting looking people with a culture I'd like to know more about. DA2 made them into random generic beastmen that didn't hold my attention at all.
-Nothing changes as time goes on. It seems pointless to me to make the game over a several year period when you don't actually show the passage of time. The same people are still standing where they were 6 years ago, the same shops are selling the same things, the city looks the same, nothing new has been built, nothing has been torn down or vandalized, everyone is wearing the exact same clothing. I don't feel like i'm experiencing the passage of time at all.
-Contrary to advertising, Hawke doesn't feel epic at all. You never have any badass moments (well there's ONE if you're a rogue on the wayward son quest) or moments of great heroism or self sacrifice. I thought since the game was going in a mass effect direction you woule be able to have a more epic character like Shepard. (headbutting Krogans, throwing guys out windows, saving every single crazed colonist at great personal risk)

I know it doesn't seem like it, but I did like the game, I was just very disapointed with it. I loved the first game so much and I made the mistake of stalking the forums waiting for DA2 to come out and hyped myself up. DA2 was "pretty good" but I expected a lot better from Bioware. I'm also feeling kind of left out since it seems as though DA2 was made to cater to a new, casual audience. I hope it's a one time thing and this isn't a permanent new direction. It's happened before with companies I liked, Nintendo switching their target audience to housewives, square-enix making childish games for preteen girls like ffx-2, kingdom hearts, and all those ff7 spinoffs. :(


Are you me? Because, I agree with EVERYTHING you just said.<3


She must have a split personality, and we are two of her voices...same here! :wub:


Male voice crowding in now.  But it seems that the disorder is subsiding since we're all starting to agree.  So at what point do we lose are individuality all together and become LEGION.  Seriously everything u said i've been thinking to a T.   :o

#1825
Thelzar

Thelzar
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I finished the game about a week ago, and are awaiting the patch and hopefully a dlc or two before seriously considering a second play-through.

I enjoyed the game, and don't regret preordering, but I suffered some fatigue in Act 2, or thereabout. I liked DAO better, but will accept changes to embrace the console market, as long as it is well done.

Things not-so-well-done:

1) Reused maps. Its ok when it makes sense - when its in the outdoors in city or on a specific coastal site - but for most interiors it did not work very well.
One particulary galling example is that Tevinter slaver dungeon that looked just like the Deep Roads. I was really expecting something different here, based on some dialogue prior to the dungeon. It completely ruined the quest, even if the story was good.

2) Somewhat boring fights. Press a button, and the same awesome thing happens. Too few monsters. Waves should be unpredicatble fun, not something you could use as a timer.
Also, the boss fights seemed unbalanced. The first ogre and the qunari boss was very hard on normal mode, the others was mostly grinding.

3) Shallow characters. I want more banter, more dialogue, more personal quests, and more meaningful choices. Merrill and Avelina was my favorites as far as their stories goes, while Varric and Isabela was the most fun companions.
DA2 was supposed to be a more personal story than DA:O, but somehow failed to deliver. Many quests felt like running errands - more quests for each companions would make me care more for the story.

4) I hated the low camera. I guess this is a console thing, but please avoid it in the future. Even better, fix it in a future patch.

5) Some broken quests and odd dialogue. I suppose these are known errors.

6) Boring loot. The party has fever slots for items, rendering much of the loot useless. Also, I killed two big dragons, and believe I got a bow after each fight. That is just.... lame.

7) Story inside the story worked well enough, but could have been used more effective. Kirkwall did not change that much, the characters did not age. The fantastic setup with Varric lost some of its impact.

If DA:O was the spiritual heir of BGII, DA2 is the heir of NWN2 - and this is not a good thing.
Still, I will buy dlcs and DA3, if it comes. I loved the ending, and I am eagerly awaiting the next part of this story, even if DA2 did not quite deliver what I hoped for. I hope to see my warden and Hawke again in the future.

Modifié par Thelzar, 11 avril 2011 - 07:04 .