2797 réponses à ce sujet

[John Epler]

Keep it coming folks. Lots of good feedback thus far. And I'll stop posting 'keep it coming'. Promise.

[LaughingDragon]

edit

Modifié par LaughingDragon, 15 mars 2011 - 11:15 .

[Guitar-Hero]

Agree with almost every point, the only thing i don't agree with is enemy encounters, i would like to see a healthy mix, otherwise all things that needs to be improved, oh and also this is a trivial point but more options in the CC more tattoos, longer hair, scars and so forth, not being very detailed as i couldn't have said it better myself.

[LaughingDragon]

Criticism, Chronological Order as appears in game, presented in John Epler Format.

Dragon Age II: PC


1) Main Introduction (-)

• I did not like opening of the game playing a pre-made invincible super-powerful Hawke wearing cool armor. This left me feeling disinterested / disconnected from the main character and I felt it was silly and completely ruined the immersion of the story. I had no idea what was happening, I didn't care, and it wasn't fun because I could have shut my eyes and mashed my keyboard and still won the battle. Plus, I had to then transition to low-level no skills ugly armor wearing weak Hawke after that. Varric and the Seeker were the only positive thing to take away from this section.
• Introductions need to be epic, shocking and incredible to capture interest, see LOTR: Fellowship prologue, or ME2, DA:O etc. 

2) Character Creation (-)(-)

• I felt character creation was unsatisfactory / lacking features because there were too few options to customize, hairstyles, tattoos, eyes, races to choose from, classes etc. Resources were also re-used from DA:O. This made me feel sad/disappointed and left me with a negative feeling about my character. This negative feeling was compounded by the fact that it was one of my first experiences with the game and set a poor mood going forward.
• As a customer I am looking to purchase an RPG experience that provides rich customization of the main character (look at the DA:O modding community to see the number/quality of hairstyles, tattoos etc)

3) Post-Character Creation Prologue (Fleeing Lothering) (-)(-)

• I didn't like the fleeing lothering prologue because I didn't know what was going on, and didn't care. All of a sudden I just appeared in what looked like the desert, with 3 strange people I don't know and don't care about, going to some other unknown place, fleeing a home I never saw and knew nothing about. I felt totally disconnected from the story and disinterested. The only enjoyable part of the prologue was the appearance of Flemeth - she was well written, well voice-acted  and looked incredible. (+)

4) Kirkwall: Appearance / Atmosphere (-)

• I felt the city of Kirkwall, while an obvious improvement in graphics/technology and superior to any single location in Origins, lacked personality and atmosphere. As a result, I was not able to immerse myself in the city / story to any level of satisfaction. The city was occupied by a few statuesque low-quality background citizens that you couldn't interact with, the rest of the city was barren and dull. Basically, it lacked personality, flash, flair, interactivity, points of interest, things to do etc. The districts, while different from eachother, were not different enough. The lack of richness/features of the city was compounded by the fact you had to spend the entire game there. 

5) Act 1 (-)

• There was nothing very enjoyable or interesting in Act 1 except the acquisition of Merrill andIsabela (+) who both had excellent writing, introductions, and appearances (especially Merrill). I didn't care about the deep roads, I didn't know what I was doing or what the story was, I felt lost and disconnected and Kirkwall was not enjoyable enough to just have fun exploring it. The side quests were all pretty much useless/waste of time. I suggest more sex, violence, rich environments etc.  The finale of Act 1 and the batlte against the Rock Wraith (+) was clearly the highlight and most enjoyable section. I believe a huge opportunity to introduce a new party member was missed in the deep roads - this would have been an excellent time to add a warden party member or creature etc. 

6) Act 2 (+)(+)

• Act 2 was immensely superior to act 1 as the focus shifted to Qunari / Chantry tensions which was actually quite interesting. The Arishok (+) was by far one of the best characters to appear in DA:II and in any game, ever. Sister Petrice (+) was also a very enjoyable element to the story. Losing of the family members was a shocking/crushing blow to the main character (+) The Act 2 finale was first-rate and very good (+). Knight Commander Meredith was awesome (+). The companion interactions in act 2 were still unsatisfactory but far superior to act 1. Relationship with Merrill / Isabela was much better in act 2 (+). The lame side questing still plagued act 2 overall. (-)

7) Act 3 (-)

• Act 3 was disappointing and felt underwhelming especially following the incredible climax of Act 2. The loss of the Arishok / Qunari (by far the stories strongest element) could not be replaced by the weaker by comparison mage/chantry conflict. Orsino was a weak character whose voice, writing, and appearance failed to impress. The ending failed to add anything to the DA:O story / failed to contribute or drive the plot forward in my opinion. I felt like the game was more of a spin-off than a Dragon Age game. This was a unique story, 90% disconnected from the previous story, they did not work well together as part of the franchise due to the non-continuous nature / vast differences. This is compounded by the shadow of Mass Effect which is doing an amazing job with a strong continuous story telling experience. 

8) Companions (-) 

• I didn't like the DA:II companions because they were not able to hold up against the quality established in DA:O IE Morrigan, Alistair, Leliana, Shale etc.
• Merrill and Isabela (+)(+)(+) were miles ahead of the rest of the cast, especially Merrill who was the highlight of the companion experience in terms of overall quality.
• Fenris (-)(-)(-) was a skinny, nerdy, ridiculous skeletor looking elf with a sword so big it clearly would crush him were it bound by the physics of the real world. I disliked Fenris so much I would have paid $10.00 for the game had you given me the opportunity to kill him. I honestly did my first playthrough and didn't even recruit this tool.
• Anders (-)(-) was poorly written, voiced and uninspired. He was a whiny, gay, man-loving waste of the DA:II budget. I would have paid an additional $10.00 for the ability to kill him as well. Justice was the wrong demon for anders, he should have been possessed by elton john's demon or something.
• Aveline (-) is a clear example of how not to give people ugly, butch, macho female companions. She was ugly to look at, not interesting, and definitely added nothing to the game. You could have turned this around by having her get a magic-induced sex change to become a man and made people laugh.
• Varric (+)(+) was well written, voiced, and looked very good. Overall Varric is the type of character you need more of. Good personality, funny, enjoyable.
• Bethany (+)(+) is another example of an excellent companion. Attractive, well voice acted, well written, interesting personality. The only negative was you could not romance her (come on, you can have a gay orgy with anders and fenris but the sister is off limits? please, face palm) Hello, empire strikes back? Princess Leia?
• Carver (-)(-) was useless. Another weak male companion. Not attractive, not interesting, no point for him to exist. Thank God he dies if you play as a rogue or warrior.  Whiny stupid little brother gtfo.
• Morrigan/Alistair/Leliana/Shale/Zevran from Origins by comparison are all (+) with Morrigan obviously being (+)(+)(+)(+)(+)

9) Customizing companions (-)(-)(-)

• It enraged me not being able to equip my companions, I hated this design choice. I absolutely love equipping my companions and the decision to "take away" my ability to do this made me angry and removed a huge element of fun from the game for me.

10) Reusing environments (-)(-)(-)(-)(-)

• Re-using environments like dungeons, caves etc is one of the worst things you could possibly do in a game. This gave me an out of this world negative experience from the game. I could not stand the re-use of environments at all. 100% hate it don't want it will not pay for it again. Mass Effect 2 has unique quests, with unique levels/maps/dungeons and that is what I expect as a customer. 

11) No tool set at launch (-)(-)(-)(-)

• This made me very unhappy as I rely on the tool set to greatly enhance, customize and expand my game especially in the case of DA:II where the customizability was stripped away by design and especially compared with Origins which was naturally more customizable AND included the tool set. This was very negative. 

[Shadow Raziel]

If the game is going to just be in a city and confined to a few areas near the city. I would like it to be similar to AC Brotherhood. more of a free flowing sandbox. where that individual NPC's had their very own A.I. if you bumped into them they react in a negative way. or they at least acknowledge you are there. As you walk by conversations from standing NPC's shift along the lines of your alignment or deeds.

Overall I enjoyed the game. and most of the criticisms have been fair and spot on. Look you guy's do exceptional work.

Concerning relationships there should be more character interaction. If the point is to make us care about the people in our party. give us time to talk and to grow in it. otherwise it's like.. Well sorry that happened to you. But now it's time to move along.

I would say slow the combat down a notch. it should flow more and not be so hurried. ( i do prefer the new system to DAO) however it's just too fast paced. Add the ME2 quick decision to it. the pull the trigger for renegade type thing for a quick kill type of decision. that would be cool. honestly the games I have enjoyed the most in single combat were Assassin's Creed Brotherhood. and batman Arkham Asylum. I do understand we have a party and I would not sacrifice the rpg elements for that type of combat. but if you could find a way to blend it. the combat in the game would rock.XD.

Overall it's a great game. but more area's. more dialogue options. ect would be a plus.

I understand the need for loading and I am not put off by that in the least.however, I would like it to be minimal, if you are confined to a city and near by areas.

Modifié par Shadow Raziel, 15 mars 2011 - 11:47 .

[Mister_Shepard]

I like this thread.

[LaughingDragon]

 One thing I would like to add that I left out of my feedback was something that was very minor, but was something I noticed that had a huge impact on me.

The Party Selection Screen.

In DA:II, when you click on a party member, nothing happens...

in DA:O, when you click a party member, they had a really cool animation and voice acknowledgement. Small details like this were something that had a hugely negative impact on my experience with DA:II. 

[MisterShine]

blothulfur wrote...

I know i'll probably get hung, drawn and quartered for saying this and I am honestly not trolling but I think bioware need to do an enhanced edition free patch like cdproject did with the witcher, because as it is I don't think this product represents them and the awesome work they can do and certainly is shamed in comparison to origins.
...
I'm truly sorry to be negative because bioware have provided some great products over the years but i'm worried that they have completely changed direction from the games I would want to play.

I wouldn't flame you for having a different opinion, but if you could go more indepth on what you think is wrong rather than just saying you didn't get into it? What specifically did you like, notlike, were meh about? Now is the time when Bioware will be really listening to feedback for future Dragon Age products, so now is the time to go in depth. You could point out some flaws that they and we have so far missed. 

If you feel someone else has described your feelings accurately, pointing them out would be helpful as well.

[HawXV2]

LaughingDragon wrote...

Criticism, Chronological Order as appears in game, presented in John Epler Format.

Dragon Age II: PC


1) Main Introduction ([color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">-)

• I did not like opening of the game playing a pre-made invincible super-powerful Hawke wearing cool armor. This left me feeling disinterested / disconnected from the main character and I felt it was silly and completely ruined the immersion of the story. I had no idea what was happening, I didn't care, and it wasn't fun because I could have shut my eyes and mashed my keyboard and still won the battle. Plus, I had to then transition to low-level no skills ugly armor wearing weak Hawke after that. Varric and the Seeker were the only positive thing to take away from this section.
• Introductions need to be epic, shocking and incredible to capture interest, see LOTR: Fellowship prologue, or ME2, DA:O etc. ]-[/color])(-)
  • I felt character creation was unsatisfactory / lacking features because there were too few options to customize, hairstyles, tattoos, eyes, races to choose from, classes etc. Resources were also re-used from DA:O. This made me feel sad/disappointed and left me with a negative feeling about my character. This negative feeling was compounded by the fact that it was one of my first experiences with the game and set a poor mood going forward.
  • As a customer I am looking to purchase an RPG experience that provides rich customization of the main character (look at the DA:O modding community to see the number/quality of hairstyles, tattoos etc)
  3) Post-Character Creation Prologue (Fleeing Lothering) (-)(-)
  
  • I didn't like the fleeing lothering prologue because I didn't know what was going on, and didn't care. All of a sudden I just appeared in what looked like the desert, with 3 strange people I don't know and don't care about, going to some other unknown place, fleeing a home I never saw and knew nothing about. I felt totally disconnected from the story and disinterested. The only enjoyable part of the prologue was the appearance of Flemeth - she was well written, well voice-acted  and looked incredible. ([color=rgb(0, 255, 0)">+)
  4) ]-[/color])
  
  • I felt the city of Kirkwall, while an obvious improvement in graphics/technology and superior to any single location in Origins, lacked personality and atmosphere. As a result, I was not able to immerse myself in the city / story to any level of satisfaction. The city was occupied by a few statuesque low-quality background citizens that you couldn't interact with, the rest of the city was barren and dull. Basically, it lacked personality, flash, flair, interactivity, points of interest, things to do etc. The districts, while different from eachother, were not different enough. The lack of richness/features of the city was compounded by the fact you had to spend the entire game there.
  5) Act 1 (-)
  
  • There was nothing very enjoyable or interesting in Act 1 except the acquisition of Merrill andIsabela ([color=rgb(0, 255, 0)">+) ]+[/color]) was clearly the highlight and most enjoyable section. I believe a huge opportunity to introduce a new party member was missed in the deep roads - this would have been an excellent time to add a warden party member or creature etc.
  6) Act 2 (+)(+)
  
  • Act 2 was immensely superior to act 1 as the focus shifted to Qunari / Chantry tensions which was actually quite interesting. The Arishok ([color=rgb(0, 255, 0)">+) ]+[/color]) was also a very enjoyable element to the story. Losing of the family members was a shocking/crushing blow to the main character ([color=rgb(0, 255, 0)">+) The Act 2 finale was first-rate and very good ]+[/color]). Knight Commander Meredith was awesome ([color=rgb(0, 255, 0)">+). The companion interactions in act 2 were still unsatisfactory but far superior to act 1. Relationship with Merrill / Isabela was much better in act 2 ]+[/color]). The lame side questing still plagued act 2 overall. ([color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">-)
  7) ]-[/color])
  
  • Act 3 was disappointing and felt underwhelming especially following the incredible climax of Act 2. The loss of the Arishok / Qunari (by far the stories strongest element) could not be replaced by the weaker by comparison mage/chantry conflict. Orsino was a weak character whose voice, writing, and appearance failed to impress. The ending failed to add anything to the DA:O story / failed to contribute or drive the plot forward in my opinion. I felt like the game was more of a spin-off than a Dragon Age game. This was a unique story, 90% disconnected from the previous story, they did not work well together as part of the franchise due to the non-continuous nature / vast differences. This is compounded by the shadow of Mass Effect which is doing an amazing job with a strong continuous story telling experience.
  8) Companions ([color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">-) ]+[/color])([color=rgb(0, 255, 0)">+)(+) ]-[/color])([color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">-)(-) ]-[/color])([color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">-) ]-[/color]) is a clear example of how not to give people ugly, butch, macho female companions. She was ugly to look at, not interesting, and definitely added nothing to the game. You could have turned this around by having her get a magic-induced sex change to become a man and made people laugh.
• Varric ([color=rgb(0, 255, 0)">+)(+) ]+[/color])([color=rgb(0, 255, 0)">+) ]-[/color])([color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">-) ]+[/color]) with Morrigan obviously being ([color=rgb(0, 255, 0)">+)(+)(+)(+)(+)

9) Customizing companions ]-[/color])([color=rgb(255, 0, 0)">-)(-)

• It enraged me not being able to equip my companions, I hated this design choice. I absolutely love equipping my companions and the decision to "take away" my ability to do this made me angry and removed a huge element of fun from the game for me.

[b]10) Reusing environments ]-[/color])(-)(-)(-)(-)

• Re-using environments like dungeons, caves etc is one of the worst things you could possibly do in a game. This gave me an out of this world negative experience from the game. I could not stand the re-use of environments at all. 100% hate it don't want it will not pay for it again. Mass Effect 2 has unique quests, with unique levels/maps/dungeons and that is what I expect as a customer. 

[b]11) No tool set at launch (-)(-)(-)(-)

• This made me very unhappy as I rely on the tool set to greatly enhance, customize and expand my game especially in the case of DA:II where the customizability was stripped away by design and especially compared with Origins which was naturally more customizable AND included the tool set. This was very negative. 

[*]Really? Otherwise great post somewhat detracted...

[Veritas]

Since it is long and can be found in two other threads I wont repost here, I will simply place a link to my thoughts... http://social.biowar...1/index/6510205

[inked77blood]

I agree with HawXV2!
Except the main issue i have with the game and god i hope Bioware starts to listen to us.Is the fact that they took away the character involvement, i could talk to Alistair or Leilana and learn about them. Nothing now it's just gone!

I enjoyed the combat change that was nice made things move along well.

 The reuse of the map was boring seeing the same stuff over and over got old.
 
I think the characters themselves where awesome but you knew nothing about them other then what was hand fed to you.

Story itself was also rather weak, sorry but it was. We pretty much knew it before the game was released and it traveled down that same  expected road. So nothing great  in my opinion.

Soundtrack was well improved I thought but ran at the wrong times or when people where talking but over all way better.

This is just my opinion but I think they should have released this and Awakenings together and brought the stories together to make one great game. Instead we got 2 mediocre games that cost us around a $100 bucks and a lot of the original fans are not happy with. I love Biowares games Dragon Age is top, Mass Effect 1 and 2 are right there also. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE CHARACTER CONNECTION! That is what made Origins RPG of the Year not combat or graphics. Also finish the story with Morighan! That dlc was crap and yes I mean crap it resolved nothing at all.

Modifié par inked77blood, 15 mars 2011 - 11:27 .

[Mmm_pizza]

DA2 needed more of everything, imho (minus the waves of enemies - needed less of those).

Some things I noticed that I felt could be improved upon:

- Not enough variety in the maps and areas visited.
- Not enough companion conversations, conversaton options in general, and party banter.
- Not enough conversaton options with non-companions.
- Low, low poly count in some of the environments.
- Low volume and variety of usable loot.
- Not near enough companion customization options (e.g., gear, non-combat skills, etc.)
- World feels...lifeless. Needs better environment weather effects (e.g., rain, clouds, wind, thunder), the population of the cities and towns feels low, and the animations of 'background' objects, such as banners blowing in the wind and the sort is minimal.
- Too few love interests.
- The courtship process is too short.

There's more...but I'm short on concentration today, so this'll have to do.

[wildcard4542000]

HawXV2 wrote...

 Ok, now that we who own the game have a forum to post in, let's do BioWare a favor and post what is really wrong with a great game without being trolled.



Re-used maps

...Really nothing to say here.


Enemy encounters

Why do they randomly appear? In Origins, you guys had it perfectly. Behind a door they would come streaming, or when you turn the corner, bam! Darkspawn! Now, they just...apear. Literally. I've defeated many a wave quickly, just to see a warrior phase through like Star Trek! Very immersion breaking.


Rogue-type enemies


They're so overpowered! They'll disappear and one shot my healer, or if they don't, they'll half my tank's health! And there seems to be no CD. Tsk Tsk!

Linearernessed...uh...Linearreerrr...It feels too one-track minded

Don't get me wrong, the style of story telling was very good, and the story itself was superior to Origins in my opinion, but it just felt...pushed along. In Origins, it felt like you could do anything at anytime. In this one, I just felt like I had to everything in this order. 

The feel

It didn't feel as big as Origins, which is sort of a give-in. It's only based in Kirikwall, which is a setting that looks simply stunning, but it just has to have more places to go to. It loses it's epic feeling when you stay in one place. Expand upon it!

Enemy deaths

Some of these are just ludicrous. I stab a guy in the back and he explodes? What? This does feel a bit childish, and only leads to more immersion breaking. 

Junk

It's...junk? Yay? I just killed a dragon and I get...junk? This has potential, such as possible lore, backstories and stuff. You can even make it a sidequest. Rebuild an ancient Elven weapon or dwarven armor. The way it is now, it's just taking up disc space and has to go.

Auto-Attack

Nothing much to say, just need a toggle for some of us. I like both ways, though.

Companions

What's that, Alistair? You're a bastard?! Oh noes! Leliana, that lady will KILL YOU! Add in some LI dialogue, BioWare! I really would've fallen in love with Isabella if she would've told me about life at sea, or Fenris if he would've explained about his Lyrium skin, or life in Tevinter. I think you guys did wonderful with the romance dialouge itself, but I would like to personally know them.

Armor

We need more of it! Give us armor sets. Origins had a ton. In this game, it's 3. Although this does add to the legendary feel of it, we just want more choices. Also, ditch the colorful basic plate armor. It doesn't feel warrior like at all. The kind from Origins was perfect, it had a great color. It's not the armor style, it's the color.

Friendly Fire toggle

Some of us want FF on levels like hard, where combat isn't as tough as NM, or as easy as normal. Personally, I hate it, but the people want what they want!

Change log:
3/15/11: Added Exploding enemies
3/15/11: Added Inventory Junk
3/15/11: Added Auto-Attack 
3/15/11: Added Dialogue (for companions)
3/15/11: Added Armor color
3/15/11: Added FF toggle for Hard
( I'm going to find a more effecient way for this log soon)


I'm sure there are other gripes from other people. If you post them, I'll add them here, as I'm sure these aren't the only problems people don't like. But most people need to agree with it, as what you may find fault with, many others may like.

Ok, constructively complain away, guys.

^ This
I agree with everything that you stated. I would especially like to emphasize the "enemies spawning outta thin air" behind my party.

It completely breaks my immersion and negates putting any kind of Tactical or strategic thought into engagements. Unlike in Origins, where I was careful in my advance. Making sure the weaker members of my party were well behind my front line. I find myself in DAII just charging in, because it doesn't matter where I place my healer. The next wave is just gonna spawn behind him/her. More than likely while my Warrior and Tank are doing their thing, my Mage is gonna die before they can disengage and help out. It completely kills the RTS nature of the game that I loved in Origins.

I would also like to stress the need for "AUTO-ATTACK" on the consoles. Not all console gamers are action junkies. That is the primary reason I loved Origins on the 360. It was unique in a sea of copycat action RPG's. It harkened back to the classics that I grew up playing and loved. Judging by how well DA:O sold, I'm not the only one who felt that way.

My opinion, slow down the combat some, stop the enemies spawning outta thin air and lose some of the JRPG influences(Oversized Swords, over-the-top acrobatics, exploding enemies and not being able to equip my party as I see fit). Bring back most of the CRPG elements that were cut from Origins, and you would have a winner in my book. I'm hungry for CRPG games with RTS type gameplay and I know I'm not the only one out here. If Origins showed anything, If you make it, they will come or shell out $60+ to buy it.

[LadyRosilin]

 Okay, I've finished my first play through of DA2 and I have some really mixed feelings.
Pros:
-The cameos of the characters we came to love (or hate) in Origins and Awakening.
-The fact that mages can use their staffs for more then just standing there and going "pew pew". 
-The elimination of needing so many different things to craft something.
-The fact that there is no longer the annoying "shuffle" to get into an attack position. 
-The friendship/rivalry system, it seems much more realistic. 
-The ability to level up while in combat.

Cons:-The lack of depth and personality in the companions. I loved Anders in Awakening, and you turned him from a man with righteous anger and wit into a paranoid nurse in need of anger management classes. Varric is the only character that I really enjoyed. In Origins you effected your companions and their views, as it is in real life. You didn't really have that in DA2, take Merrill for example. Both Anders and my Hawke kept saying and showing her how blind she was being and she still didn't wake up after everything that happened. Even Morrigan listened better! It very much seemed that once you made a character there was no way you could influence them. 
-Lack of dialoge with your companions. I really enjoyed how you could talk to your party members at any time in Origins, it was helpful and nice to get to know them better. 
- Eliminating the Arcane Warrior specialization. Everyone I know is also upset about that. 
-Not being able to change equipment or level up companions without them being in your immediate party. Being able to make adjustments in the party camp in Origins was very helpful and by eliminating that you made it a lot more annoying. 


A lot of people seem to already have said/typed some of my other problems with the game. I don't regret buying it, but unlike when I played Origins, I didn't have the instant urge to play DA2 again after finishing a play through. It didn't grab me quite like Origins or even Awakening did. 

I understand the story line, and why you can only be a human, but I still miss being able to be a character that is completely my own. 

Modifié par LadyRosilin, 15 mars 2011 - 11:28 .

[Ghostsaxon]

HawXV2 wrote...

 Ok, now that we who own the game have a forum to post in, let's do BioWare a favor and post what is really wrong with a great game without being trolled.



Re-used maps

...Really nothing to say here.


Enemy encounters

Why do they randomly appear? In Origins, you guys had it perfectly. Behind a door they would come streaming, or when you turn the corner, bam! Darkspawn! Now, they just...apear. Literally. I've defeated many a wave quickly, just to see a warrior phase through like Star Trek! Very immersion breaking.


Rogue-type enemies


They're so overpowered! They'll disappear and one shot my healer, or if they don't, they'll half my tank's health! And there seems to be no CD. Tsk Tsk!

Linearernessed...uh...Linearreerrr...It feels too one-track minded

Don't get me wrong, the style of story telling was very good, and the story itself was superior to Origins in my opinion, but it just felt...pushed along. In Origins, it felt like you could do anything at anytime. In this one, I just felt like I had to everything in this order. 

The feel

It didn't feel as big as Origins, which is sort of a give-in. It's only based in Kirikwall, which is a setting that looks simply stunning, but it just has to have more places to go to. It loses it's epic feeling when you stay in one place. Expand upon it!

Enemy deaths

Some of these are just ludicrous. I stab a guy in the back and he explodes? What? This does feel a bit childish, and only leads to more immersion breaking. 

Junk

It's...junk? Yay? I just killed a dragon and I get...junk? This has potential, such as possible lore, backstories and stuff. You can even make it a sidequest. Rebuild an ancient Elven weapon or dwarven armor. The way it is now, it's just taking up disc space and has to go.

Auto-Attack

Nothing much to say, just need a toggle for some of us. I like both ways, though.

Companions

What's that, Alistair? You're a bastard?! Oh noes! Leliana, that lady will KILL YOU! Add in some LI dialogue, BioWare! I really would've fallen in love with Isabella if she would've told me about life at sea, or Fenris if he would've explained about his Lyrium skin, or life in Tevinter. I think you guys did wonderful with the romance dialouge itself, but I would like to personally know them.

Armor

We need more of it! Give us armor sets. Origins had a ton. In this game, it's 3. Although this does add to the legendary feel of it, we just want more choices. Also, ditch the colorful basic plate armor. It doesn't feel warrior like at all. The kind from Origins was perfect, it had a great color. It's not the armor style, it's the color.

Friendly Fire toggle

Some of us want FF on levels like hard, where combat isn't as tough as NM, or as easy as normal. Personally, I hate it, but the people want what they want!

Change log:
3/15/11: Added Exploding enemies
3/15/11: Added Inventory Junk
3/15/11: Added Auto-Attack 
3/15/11: Added Dialogue (for companions)
3/15/11: Added Armor color
3/15/11: Added FF toggle for Hard
( I'm going to find a more effecient way for this log soon)


I'm sure there are other gripes from other people. If you post them, I'll add them here, as I'm sure these aren't the only problems people don't like. But most people need to agree with it, as what you may find fault with, many others may like.

Ok, constructively complain away, guys.

I too Agree i miss the beheading fatalities that orgins/awakenings had and laugh at the way the enemies explode in dragon age 2. 

[phrizek]

 I enjoyed parts of the game in my one and a half play-throughs, but there were some serious issues I had with it as well.  I had very few qualms with the faster paced combat, and anybody who says the game lost its tactical play isn’t being honest. The inclusion of cross-class combos makes for a more tactical experience overall and I had loads of fun with the combat. The gameplay was not the weakest part of this game. There were other issues that were more outstanding and should really be addressed. I’ll try to list as many as possible below.

Things that took away from the game:

Reused maps - I think this one has been mentioned numerous times and for good reason. Reusing the same maps over and over again is a real drag, and is unbecoming of a AAA developer like BioWare. It gives the impression that the game was severely rushed. Outside of that, thinking about having to traverse these same maps dozens of times really kills the replay value. I found myself thinking about rolling a new character to further explore the story but ultimately deciding not to because of the distasteful reuse of the same areas. Why would I want to play this game again if I am going to see the same cave, hovel, coast, sewer, etc. hundreds of times? I honestly think that above everything else, this is the greatest problem with the game. Deciding to reuse the same map but inserting the player in a different room and closing off a few doors feels really insulting to the player who not only payed $60 for the game, but one who also expects a certain level of immersion from the game. These maps kill any sense of immersion and every time you walk into that same cave, you are reminded that you are playing a video game. I would have expected something like this from a no name developer, but coming from BioWare, I really feel that it reflects poorly on the company and the direction it is going.

I strongly believe that BioWare should own up to this mistake and, as an olive branch to the community, release a fix pack that replaces many of these reused maps with new ones. Lesser companies have done more for their fans. For example, Divinity 2 was re-released with a ton of improvements over Ego Draconis. CD Projekt RED released a massive. free patch for The Witcher that fixed most of the issues in that game. The developers of Hydrophobia recently revamped their entire game in light of fan response. It would go a long way to in restoring our faith in BioWare.


Wave combat - This is the biggest issue I had with combat. Increasing the pace of combat and making cool animations for everything is fine, because combat is just like it was in DAO, only sped up. However the thing that really annoys me is the constant spawning of new enemies on the battlefield. Whereas before you had some sense of what you were up against when you entered a battle, and could pause and issue commands accordingly, having waves constantly spawning diminishes some of that tactical play. The worst part is when a new group of enemies spawn far behind you, after you think you finished the last of them off. Then you have to go running all the way back to one or two of your squadmates who are being harassed by enemies that spawned right next to them. What really makes this wave combat unappealing is that it destroys any sense of accomplishment in battle. Defeating a group of enemies is a very cathartic feeling; you feel GOOD and are RELIEVED when you are victorious. This feeling and sense of accomplishment is squashed immediately when you notice a new group of enemies spawn onto the battlefield. Then more spawn. And more. By the end of the battle, rather than feeling that you accomplished something, you are mentally tuckered out by everything the game is throwing at you and disappointed that the battle has (needlessly) dragged on for so long. It makes combat tedious, less tactical, and unexciting. In other words, never do this again.


Delivery quests - These were baffling to me. You find items littered about and they place a new quest in your journal. You go to where the quest tells you to and when you go talk to the person with a marker over their head, instead of initiating a new quest or dialogue, they simply thank you for returning the item and give you some cash and experience. Sometimes these items make no sense at all. You return the remains of someone and the dude thanks you with a comment that they've been looking all over for it. Huh? The addition of these quests is completely nonsensical and reek of artificially extending the length of the game or that they were left unfinished because the game was rushed. The only role these delivery quests seem to play is to give you money and experience. If that is the case, why not just eliminate these quests altogether and raise the money and exp earned in other, real side quests? When I played the game for the first time, I kept doing these quests because I thought that later there would be some sort of payoff. “I’m going to be the Champion of Kirkwall, right?” I figured that at some point later in the game, something will happen storywise and then all the people who I have helped out over the years will go to bat for me. However, nothing like this ever happened! These sidequests turned out to be completely pointless and instead of adding value to the game, only served to cheapen it.


Nighttime thugs - Throughout the game you encounter groups of thugs at night and after getting rid of enough of them, you get details on where their base of operations is. So you travel to the same familiar alleyway where they all seem to live in and kill a bunch more of these thugs. Afterwards you talk to a “friend” and they reward you with cash. These side quests are the most blatant attempt to artificially lengthen the time spent playing the game. They add nothing to the story and are just a pointless distraction. In fact, I feel they take a way from the game in a very important way: they make the city of Kirkwall feel empty and desolate. This is simply because you encounter more thugs on the streets of Kirkwall than you do normal citizens living there. You would swear with all these thugs attacking you that everyone in the city was a criminal. It honestly feels like these sidequests were added at the last minute in order to lengthen an already short game. Also, your companions ALWAYS make a comment about getting rid of them for a reward. It gets annoying when you hear the same thing repeated over and over. How dumb do you think your players are that you have to keep repeating the fact that you can engage in these sidequests? It only needs to be said once. It’s almost like you want to remind us that these shallow side quests exist, so you can point to them later on and say “But look! There are  bunch of sidequests you can do at night! See, the game does have lots of content!” I’m not buying it, and I’m sure a lot of other players think as I do.

Junk items - This aspect of the game infuriates me. Why go through all the trouble of naming hundreds of items if they are junk and cannot be used in any way? The only reason these junk items exist is to be sold for money, so why don’t we just skip a step and let us find money in all those chests instead? Not only are these items useless until you reach the next shop, they take up space in your inventory. If an item’s sole purpose is to be sold for money and it sits in your inventory until you do so, it shouldn’t exist. Losing an inventory spot for such an item is a textbook case of bad game design. Just give us money in those chests instead! Not only will that be easier for the player, but it will make it even more special when we come across loot we can actually use. As it stands, having junk items is one of the most pointless and poorly thought out acts of “streamlining” I've ever encountered.


The illusion of choice  - There were a number of times in the story when it seemed like I was given a choice of things to do, but no matter what I picked, the outcome was always the same. Since this is a non-spoiler forum, I don’t want to say anything specific, but it is really off-putting when in a game that is designed to make you feel like your choices matter, a number of really important sequences always play out in the same way, regardless of what you do. This is especially egregious in the closing hours of the game, but it is peppered throughout.

The passage of time - The story is supposed to give you a sense of the passage of years, but it fails miserably at this. Sure, banners change and weeds start to grow out of the tiles on the ground, but any sense of the passage of time is instantly nullified when you see the same characters standing around in the same areas for years. Shopkeepers do not move and stay put for the duration of Hawke’s time in Kirkwall.

Life in the City - For the most part, the city seems really dead. What I mean by this is that it lacks a bustling sense of life that you expect from a city in a fantasy game. There are only a few npcs running around and most of the events they do seem scripted and unnatural. You don’t ever get the sense that you are in a living, breathing city. For examples of game that do give you a sense of city life, check out the Assassins Creed games. There are hundreds of characters running about the cities, going on about their lives. There’s chatter in the air and the chaos of living in the city draws you in and feels real. A less technically impressive example that still feels better than what I saw in Dragon Age II is Hyrule Castle Town in Zelda Twilight Princess. Also, take a look at The Witcher and how it implements npc interaction in cities. In that game, you can often see main characters running about the city living their lives, and you can interact with them at any time. It seems more realistic when you see people you’ve met walking around, without waiting for input from you. Even Shenmue did this back in 2000. It would have been great if your companions would walk around the city and do stuff all by themselves, but still be at their home bases when you need them. How cool would it have been to see Isabella shopping for hats by herself in Lowtown, or Anders making a housecall to Tomwise in Darktown? It would have been great to see Aveline out on patrol in Hightown, or Merrill stomping about the alienage. Too bad.


And now I want to point out things that were done right:

Characters and character interaction - This aspect of the game was superb, and kept me playing. I felt that most of the characters were great (Carver and Fenris were the only ones I did not care for). The inter party banter was fantastic, although one small annoyance is that they would start chatting every time I neared an exit in the city. I’m trying to get somewhere else, and now I have to stop for a minute and listen to what they are saying, or I might miss it forever. Regardless, the writing was top notch and I cared about the characters more than I did in Origins.

Hawke’s demeanor - This was really fantantic and made the game a whole lot better. Depending on what choices you made, Hawke would sarcastic, aggressive, or diplomatic in conversations. This is a really big improvement over the system in Mass Effect, where Shepard’s personality stays the same and only the choices you make have any impact on how he interacts with others. Bravo on this!

The Dialogue wheel - The addition of icons make an already good dialogue system even better.

NPC interaction - I talked about this a little above but I wanted to elaborate more. While the city doesn’t feel as alive as it should, a significant step towards that was how random npcs would start talking to each other in close proximity. This is one area that should be developed further and expanded upon in the next game. The seed of it is already here, but it could grow into something better over time.


Anyways, that’s all I have for now. I'll add more later if I remember something. I did enjoy some aspects of the game, but I also feel a great sense of disappointment when I think of what it could have been. Honestly, the foundations for this game are rock solid. However I can’t shake the feeling that if it had a year or two more development time, it would have been the best BioWare game ever, hands down. There really was no reason to release this game so soon after the first. Nobody was clamoring for it, and CRPG players are generally a patient bunch. If there is a lesson for BioWare to learn out of all of this, here it is: quality over quantity. Don’t rush out your games and do take the extra time to polish them. Don’t add tons of pointless side quests and useless items to give the game a veneer of length and instead focus on a good number of quality ones.

Good luck with Dragon Age III.

Modifié par phrizek, 19 avril 2011 - 11:26 .

[Zero-X-]

I understand many of the decisions taken but I disagree with some, here is my own personal list:
Maps: As other users point ( and even yourselfs ) the map re use is not a good thing to find but that’s honestly not what really bothered me.

Two Handed weapons: Way too fast, enemies use two handers like in DAO, while your character swings it like it doesn’t have any weight; I love the sense of “slow but powerful” feel in DAO.

Grabbing: I miss this one I loved to send my dog to grab an enemy or I simply liked when an ogre picked one of my guys and I had to rush to free him.

Spell combos: Don’t get me wrong I like the cross class combos but … there should be “less powerfull” combos with your own class.

Spawning: I can’t say anything else than “I hate it” don’t get me wrong I like “waves” but I don’t like them to pop in my face, the encounters seems to have been design for you to be expected to run into the middle of the fray and stay there, most of the choke points are spawn points, even the ones from where you came
.
Healing: I didn’t like the redesign on this one, two healing spells with long cooldowns, to be honest I liked the DAO healing better, I really enjoyed setting all the AI for my healer to make him an effective healer.

Immunities: I like when you are not able to kill a fire elemental with fire, but it seems ALL creatures had one, I have no problem with resistances but almost every mercenary seems to be immune to cold in nightmare =/.

Lack of a quest to search “the ultimate weapon / armor”: I miss you dragon armor and starfang =( ( yeah I’m aware of the champions armor but I had no real glory on getting it, maybe if it was crafted from the drops rather than be the loot itself )

Death Blows: I know it was explained, but you could have left them under special cirscutances like "its the last guy" or no one is attacking the guy thats about to perform it.

I still liked the game tough =)

Modifié par Zero-X-, 15 mars 2011 - 11:39 .

[Valcutio]

If this seems like an angry rant - it kinda is. I waited too long for a sequal to have this game bomb as badly as it did. None of my friends will even play the game after the things they've heard and there's a reason the game is dropping so quickly from various sales charts. Word spreads.

They know what they did wrong. There's no need for lists. The idea that they need somebody to tell them is laughable. They gave us half of a game (at best) and shoved a TON of mundane fetch quests in to compensate for the time. Then they shoved their attitude about certain relationships in our faces to push an agenda that over 98% of gamers either don't want or don't care about one way or another. Throw in a halfhearted story that any random teenager on my street could cook up in a couple hours and you have the beginning of the woes this game faces.

The combat changes are acceptable. I wish there was more depth, less magically appearing enemies and a vastly increased strategical element but I can appreciate the direction they attempted to take here. Did it work? I dont think it matters because of how horrible the rest of the design decisions were. I wish the combat was the pressing issue but it's not even close. It takes a backseat to a plethora of other problems. I will mention the lack of various enemy types and the extremely predictable and boring bosses though.

I don't care how many official reviewers rant and rave about how good this game is. The issue is they have either forgotten how amazing DAO is or never played it. Or they had other incentives to give the game a positive review (but I'll save you the conspiracy theory). The game isn't bad - it's just bad for Bioware. No, scratch that, it's TERRIBLE for Bioware and should be rated with that in mind. This isn't some indy studio. I didn't preorder 6 or so months ago for some halfassed rpg that was thrown together on a whim. I preordered because Bioware had all the trust in the world to make ANOTHER classic. Bioware, before this, was untouchable - if somebody said something bad about Boware... they got shot down hard by a legion of fans. Those days are gone.

Anyone remember why Wardens were the only ones capable of fighting Darkspawn on a regular basis? Because they drank their blood and all that? Yeah, that just disappeared. Along with any credibility the story had. "Yeah, let's introduce "Hawke" - DA's version of Shepard. Let's toss out the Warden that people fell in love with and start fresh! He can talk! (Plus we don't have to devote as much time to interlinking the various origins and decisions that players may have made.. no more being forced to design gear for dwarf or elf models either! Score!)"

I'm beyond disappointed with the game. If any Bioware employees were allowed to post their honest feelings about the game without the threat of being let-go then I imagine they'd have the same valid complaints that most of us have. I imagine this game was rushed because of EA but Bioware has denied that so much that its not worth bringing up. If they're confident that THIS is the best they can do when not rushed then so be it. Personally, if I was being blamed for DA2, I would scream from the heavens how much I was being rushed.

I'll be preordering ME3 because I trust that Bioware wouldn't allow the DA2 team near the ME3 area. I'm sure its quarantined.

[Ghostsaxon]

As A long Time Bioware Fan, And player of all the games they have released, i am not disapointed in Dragon Age 2, But when i finished orgins, i immidietly jumped in for seconds and 3rds due to so many story options. When i finished dragon Age 2 as a Mage, i tried to jump right back in again as a rouge and couldnt make it more than 5 min. and was really disapointed they took away the dual wielding warrior..... hopeing a patch will come soon untill then ill do another run through of DA Orgins.

[blakskyz]

Good points phrizek. But I would like to add one thing, in regards to Passage of Time. Why doesn't the main PC and the NPC's show any aging? That would be a nice finishing touch. I mean years go by in the harsh environment and no one ages?

Aside from that...it's a decent game.

[Chief Chin]

I miss many things from DA:O but most of all is the character interaction and the way the characters interact with the PC. It all feels very lifeless and inpersonal this time around. I love Varric, but I feel he is the only character that really encompasses this for me.

Like the new combat, it is improved from Origins, but again would like to toggle auto attack, feel like a button basher half the time.

It felt more like a spinoff to DA:O than a sequel, like it wasn't meant to be similar at all.

[HawXV2]

Valcutio wrote...

If this seems like an angry rant - it kinda is. I waited too long for a sequal to have this game bomb as badly as it did. None of my friends will even play the game after the things they've heard and there's a reason the game is dropping so quickly from various sales charts. Word spreads.

They know what they did wrong. There's no need for lists. The idea that they need somebody to tell them is laughable. They gave us half of a game (at best) and shoved a TON of mundane fetch quests in to compensate for the time. Then they shoved their attitude about certain relationships in our faces to push an agenda that over 98% of gamers either don't want or don't care about one way or another. Throw in a halfhearted story that any random teenager on my street could cook up in a couple hours and you have the beginning of the woes this game faces.

The combat changes are acceptable. I wish there was more depth, less magically appearing enemies and a vastly increased strategical element but I can appreciate the direction they attempted to take here. Did it work? I dont think it matters because of how horrible the rest of the design decisions were. I wish the combat was the pressing issue but it's not even close. It takes a backseat to a plethora of other problems. I will mention the lack of various enemy types and the extremely predictable and boring bosses though.

I don't care how many official reviewers rant and rave about how good this game is. The issue is they have either forgotten how amazing DAO is or never played it. Or they had other incentives to give the game a positive review (but I'll save you the conspiracy theory). The game isn't bad - it's just bad for Bioware. No, scratch that, it's TERRIBLE for Bioware and should be rated with that in mind. This isn't some indy studio. I didn't preorder 6 or so months ago for some halfassed rpg that was thrown together on a whim. I preordered because Bioware had all the trust in the world to make ANOTHER classic. Bioware, before this, was untouchable - if somebody said something bad about Boware... they got shot down hard by a legion of fans. Those days are gone.

Anyone remember why Wardens were the only ones capable of fighting Darkspawn on a regular basis? Because they drank their blood and all that? Yeah, that just disappeared. Along with any credibility the story had. "Yeah, let's introduce "Hawke" - DA's version of Shepard. Let's toss out the Warden that people fell in love with and start fresh! He can talk! (Plus we don't have to devote as much time to interlinking the various origins and decisions that players may have made.. no more being forced to design gear for dwarf or elf models either! Score!)"

I'm beyond disappointed with the game. If any Bioware employees were allowed to post their honest feelings about the game without the threat of being let-go then I imagine they'd have the same valid complaints that most of us have. I imagine this game was rushed because of EA but Bioware has denied that so much that its not worth bringing up. If they're confident that THIS is the best they can do when not rushed then so be it. Personally, if I was being blamed for DA2, I would scream from the heavens how much I was being rushed.

I'll be preordering ME3 because I trust that Bioware wouldn't allow the DA2 team near the ME3 area. I'm sure its quarantined.

I'm replaying Origins right now, and I still find this game superior.

[KigenBarzhad]

Cons:
-The game felt too short at the "end"/Act3: I really enjoyed myself until I realized hey... its gonna end soon. Someone mentioned 5 acts and that sort of what I was expecting, 3 acts felt way too fast. It ultimately felt like an expansion rather than a full game. All and all the conflict between Orsino and Meredith should have been more epic, should have felt more epic but instead it really only felt like just another quest to advance the story.
-A complete lack of an ending: yeah I understand leaving it open for a sequel but there was 0 closure. This pact by having a certain magical choice at the end not matter really bugged me.
-It really feels like there are not many skills to choose from at all, for any class. I rolled a mage and I really felt like there were no appealing skills outside of crushing prison. I didnt want to be a healer or elementalist so for the most part I was S.O.L. Moverover the other classes seemed rather lackluster as well. I know alot of people wanted Arcane Warrior and to be honest I'm one of them.

Pros:
- I really enjoyed the Friendship/Rivarly system. Compared to Origins where I felt I had to pick certain choice for fear of lossing a companion, I felt like I had the choice to be the persona I choose with minimal conciquence. I really wish this was in Origins!
- As a gay man, I really enjoyed Anders. I understand that people felt he was whiny and such and I'm not one to totally dissaggree I felt this was a great choice. Unlike say Zevran who had little redeeming quality to me, he felt real. He wanted more but still treasured you.
- I liked the Dialogue Wheel for letting me customize the persona of my Hawke.

Modifié par KigenBarzhad, 16 mars 2011 - 12:07 .

[bluecapsule6]

 I would add:

Unsatisfactory looting system: all armor you pick up that your class can't use is completely useless. Similarly, if you didn't buy Sebastian, all bows you find are completely worthless (unless you rolled an archery rogue). I was pretty damn frustrated when I killed a high dragon and got 2 bows as the reward. I ended up not even bothering to check what loot I was grabbing during quests since 99% of it just ended up being useless. 

No real choice: the ending appears to present a major "choice", but it's more of an illusion since the same exact things happen no matter what choices you make during the game. 

BUGS: encountered several quest breaking bugs in the game. I can't remember the last time I had to use a debug menu to do a quest in a supposed "AAA" game. 

Modifié par bluecapsule6, 15 mars 2011 - 11:49 .

[JohnC2211]

Mine is something really picky, but I want the deathblows back from Origins. They were awesome. Also, I kind of preferred the slower, more realistic combat in Origins. The new Mage animations are quite good though, and I especially like that your Mage melee's with staff also.


I do not like the classes being restricted to one weapon.