2797 réponses à ce sujet

[SkylinePigeon]

So this one is so obvious that I'm tempted to think that maybe I'm missing something and it's in the game, but if, like I think, it is not, then what happened to the button that would take you straight to your inventory so you could item manage while at shops or treasure chests? This was really annoying to me, trying to take things out of a chest but having a full inventory and not being able to destroy junk straight from that screen but having to exit and then come back in. It was in Origins and I have no idea why it wouldn't be put in DA2.

Unless I am missing something, and in that case I apologize.

My general opinion on DA 2 is that while I think it was rushed and definitely has flaws, it also does some things much, much better. The romances were more interesting and greatly improved (regardless of the criticism you've gotten having all LIs available for all genders was a wonderful choice both from the player perspective AND from a political/progressive perspective analyzing what it means for LGBT players--and this is coming from a straight female ), mutability of dialogue in how it shapes conversations was amazing. I am very appreciative of the strong and diverse female characters in the game... Bethany, Aveline, and Isabela are all very different as women but strong in their own way... it's rare that we see this kind of representation in games and I loved it. The dialogue between Aveline and Isabela... brilliant. Keep putting more of this content in your games Bioware, DA2 was an incredible step for equal representation in gaming, and there are so many interesting ways to look at these characters.

But like others have said (and you have acknowledged) the rehashed dungeons are kind of unforgiveable, the parts where the story glitched just make me sad (the wasted potential!), and while the overall narrative DOES make sense and all the pieces DO fit, I think it could have been tighter and the connections a bit more obvious (gatlock = Anders explosion?!). Ultimately I would have liked to felt like Hawke had more of an impact in shaping the narrative, although being a mage in my first play through, siding with Anders, playing a character who I would describe more as a rebel than a hero was an interesting and worthwhile experience. It was definitely something I hadn't played before, and I could appreciate that.

Other criticisms: wave combat, enemies popping out of literally nowhere (fade in, really?), redesign of darkspawn, can't change companion armor, not enough variety in look of weapons/armor.

While overall I like the dialogue wheel, I think that the icons took some of the subtlety out of the relationships.  My character romanced Alistair in DAO, and that relationship could develop over time, forming a friendship first that then became romantic, could flirt when she wanted, instead of making sure I hammered the "heart" icon every time in DA2 to make sure I pursued a romance with a a certain character.  Felt more gamey and less natural, even though over all the romances were better IMO.

Modifié par SkylinePigeon, 31 mai 2011 - 08:55 .

[SkylinePigeon]

Spell Singer wrote...


One thing that really stands out (especially after Alpha Protocol) is that this game is 95% or more simply killing things. There are virtually no quests/missions that are anything but go to a place and kill everything present. There are remarkably few encounters that can be resolved without violence even when it seems reasonable that you could resolve the situation with words. There are missions where you talk to people this is true but they are largely only the set up for "the real" mission which involves killing everything that moves in some location. I would have appreciated some different kinds of missions.

.

I agree with this strongly.  It honestly shaped how I viewed my character a lot, too... Hawke kills A LOT of people.  A lot.  The Warden kills some people too, but it's mostly Darkspawn... that feels a lot different.  Personally, it was hard for me to view Hawke as simply a hero or even a "good person" due to how many people she killed. 

And man, Merrill's personal quest... it soured me on the character completely. I have never felt so horrified in a game than when I ended up killing the entire clan.  There needed to be more options there--an option that would have punished Merrill without having Hawke take responsibility or all the clan ending up dead, I think.  I thought Merrill was a pretty enjoyable/likable character until the end of her quest, and now on my subsequent playthroughs I'm just avoiding her entirely because I can't let that slaughter happen again.

[Aesieru]

There was a very easy way not to kill your clan from what I could tell.

[FiachSidhe]

This is a tough game to criticize, as I don't know how much the game's flaws, are due simply to not having enough development time.
I really like DA2 but it's not as good as it could have been, so I'll try to help.
Here goes:

1. Not enough of a link to the previous game.
In that, I mean actions taken didn't transfer through as much as I would have liked.

2. The ending
- While interesting, seemed to trivialize every choice I made up until then. Like it didn't matter who I sided with, or what I did. While I can appreciate the message about prejudging, and preconceptions, I would have liked to affect the outcome.
- The ending is depressing. This game is almost a tragedy. Heck it may be purposefully classified as such, but the end regardless of what I did, was an apocalyptic mess.

3. I was forced to allow certain event to take place.
- I was never able to force Anders to tell me what he was doing or pursue such knowledge on my own.
- The White Lotus Killer is the biggest offender. Even after I find out about his last victim, Hawke never seemed any more invested. When you find the letter signed by "O" you never follow through on it. and after it's over Hawke grieves for two minutes and pretty much forgets.

Which leads me to the entire concept of Laandra's fate. It was over the top, and completely unessesary, It was simply irrelevant cruelty to drive home the "hard life" the chmpion had to endure. However, her part did nothing to propell the story foward, and merely came off as a random act of misery, to add to the pile. It's like the developers had seen Se7en recently and wanted to act some pychological thriller nonsense.
If you're going to do something that heavy, it has to play a bigger role than simply shocking the audience.

4.  I should be able to respond to banter.

5. Not enough areas. This has been covered enough for me to skip elaboration.

6. When I'm seducing Merrill, I should have an expression that says:
"Man she's cute, I can't wait to kiss her face, and get her in the sack!"
Not,
"Man she's cute, I can't wait to skin her face, and wear it like a mask!"

I'll try to add more later.

Modifié par FiachSidhe, 31 mai 2011 - 11:32 .

[SkylinePigeon]

Aesieru wrote...

There was a very easy way not to kill your clan from what I could tell.

Have Hawke assume responsibility for Merrill's actions.  Which is doable but I didn't like either.  Or don't complete the quest.

Right?

[FiachSidhe]

SkylinePigeon wrote...

Spell Singer wrote...


One thing that really stands out (especially after Alpha Protocol) is that this game is 95% or more simply killing things. There are virtually no quests/missions that are anything but go to a place and kill everything present. There are remarkably few encounters that can be resolved without violence even when it seems reasonable that you could resolve the situation with words. There are missions where you talk to people this is true but they are largely only the set up for "the real" mission which involves killing everything that moves in some location. I would have appreciated some different kinds of missions.

.

I agree with this strongly.  It honestly shaped how I viewed my character a lot, too... Hawke kills A LOT of people.  A lot.  The Warden kills some people too, but it's mostly Darkspawn... that feels a lot different.  Personally, it was hard for me to view Hawke as simply a hero or even a "good person" due to how many people she killed. 

And man, Merrill's personal quest... it soured me on the character completely. I have never felt so horrified in a game than when I ended up killing the entire clan.  There needed to be more options there--an option that would have punished Merrill without having Hawke take responsibility or all the clan ending up dead, I think.  I thought Merrill was a pretty enjoyable/likable character until the end of her quest, and now on my subsequent playthroughs I'm just avoiding her entirely because I can't let that slaughter happen again.

If you "take responsibility" for Merrill's actions during the conversation, they don't attack you and they all live.

Modifié par FiachSidhe, 31 mai 2011 - 11:25 .

[SkylinePigeon]

FiachSidhe wrote...



3. I was forced to allow certain event to take place.
- I was never able to force Anders to tell me what he was doing or pursue such knowledge on my own.
- The White Lotus Killer is the biggest offender. Even after I find out about his last victim, Hawke never seemed any more invested. When you find the letter signed by "O" you never follow through on it. and after it's over Hawke grieves for two minutes and pretty much forgets.

I think your assessment of Hawke's disinterest in the parent's death is totally valid (also Leandra is a really awful mom IMO) BUT I think having things happen that you can't control--like what goes on with Anders is 1) more realistic and 2) has potential to be more interesting IF the player is given meaningful follow up choices.  An example I was really struck by was where you go hunt down the three mages for Meredith.  I let Emile go but took Fenris with me when I resolved the quest with Meredith.  When I tried to lie about Emile, he ratted me out.  I was absolutely floored--I haven't played a game where an NPC like that--a friend--would completely override your character because of his own agenda.  It was both really interesting, true to life, and added a unique layer of complexity to the situation.  One of my favorite moments in the game TBH.

[Aesieru]

I'd entirely disagree because just because he doesn't talk about it, doesn't mean it's not on his mind.

After all, he doesn't ever enter his mom's room again... talk about gloomy.

[SkylinePigeon]

FiachSidhe wrote...

SkylinePigeon wrote...

There needed to be more options there--an option that would have punished Merrill without having Hawke take responsibility or all the clan ending up dead, I think. 

If you "take responsibility" for Merrill's actions during the conversation, they don't attack you and they all live.

I know, and I acknowledged that in my post.  I just don't particularly like that solution.  EIther Merrill's idiocy with the demon is my fault or everyone dies.  Neither addresses the root of the problem--Merrill herself.  The first option has Merrill not having to face consequences for her mistakes, and the second option ends in genocide.  Distasteful either way, IMO.  So I usually don't complete the quest.

Modifié par SkylinePigeon, 31 mai 2011 - 11:33 .

[FiachSidhe]

SkylinePigeon wrote...

FiachSidhe wrote...



3. I was forced to allow certain event to take place.
- I was never able to force Anders to tell me what he was doing or pursue such knowledge on my own.
- The White Lotus Killer is the biggest offender. Even after I find out about his last victim, Hawke never seemed any more invested. When you find the letter signed by "O" you never follow through on it. and after it's over Hawke grieves for two minutes and pretty much forgets.

I think your assessment of Hawke's disinterest in the parent's death is totally valid (also Leandra is a really awful mom IMO) BUT I think having things happen that you can't control--like what goes on with Anders is 1) more realistic and 2) has potential to be more interesting IF the player is given meaningful follow up choices.  An example I was really struck by was where you go hunt down the three mages for Meredith.  I let Emile go but took Fenris with me when I resolved the quest with Meredith.  When I tried to lie about Emile, he ratted me out.  I was absolutely floored--I haven't played a game where an NPC like that--a friend--would completely override your character because of his own agenda.  It was both really interesting, true to life, and added a unique layer of complexity to the situation.  One of my favorite moments in the game TBH.

I agree for the most part. Sometimes no matter how hard you try, you can't win. I just thought it would be nicer to have the option to pursue such things or ignore them. I do like the concept of removing a hero's power to ground them back into reality. Sometimes even a champion fails.

As for Fenris, that is pretty cool. I never used him much so I missed that. That's a great attention to detail.

[FiachSidhe]

SkylinePigeon wrote...

FiachSidhe wrote...

SkylinePigeon wrote...

There needed to be more options there--an option that would have punished Merrill without having Hawke take responsibility or all the clan ending up dead, I think. 

If you "take responsibility" for Merrill's actions during the conversation, they don't attack you and they all live.

I know, and I acknowledged that in my post.  I just don't particularly like that solution.  EIther Merrill's idiocy with the demon is my fault or everyone dies.  Neither addresses the root of the problem--Merrill herself.  The first option has Merrill not having to face consequences for her mistakes, and the second option ends in genocide.  Distasteful either way, IMO.  So I usually don't complete the quest.

In that regard, I agree. The responses weren't all that helpfull. I never understood why being honest with the Dalish would lead to a slaughter. Heck even taking responsibility ended up with you blaming Merrill.

Modifié par FiachSidhe, 31 mai 2011 - 11:40 .

[Spell Singer]

One last comment and this one is both highly subjective and hard to write in a clear fashion. One of the things that is very clear in ME2, and DAx is that when you are in combat you are playing a game. This is maybe somewhat less obvious when playing DA:O-A then DA2. DA2 forces you to treat the combat as a mechanic, there is pathetically little immersion going on as you are concerned with "cool down timers", "cross class combos", "DPS" etc In my case since I played sword and shield it was even worse since it was impossible to feel like the "champion of Kirkwall" at all...I was this hard to kill dweeb who could barely kill the wimpiest of targets compared to any of the other people (except Avaline) who could mostly blast them apart in a split second. But even setting that aside, given the constant necessity to micro manage in a purely gamey way your party any feeling of immersion seemed to evaporate.

I have to admit that only in KotOR, and in ME did I get this sense of immersion (and not always) but in DA2 it was really missing. The more the game picks you up and rubs your face in the mechanics the harder it is for me to get that feeling of immersion. The more it becomes less about doing what would make sense in real life and the more it becomes about exploiting AI stupidity, or specific rules (agro management is a classic example of this) the harder it is for me to forget I am playing a game.

Clearly this highly personal, but in much the same way I find it hard to get into a game that would allow a sherman tank to kill a tiger I with a frontal armour shot at 500 m except under some sort of critical hit I find it very hard to enjoy a combat system that smacks you continuously with situations that are not sensible. This happened in DA:O-A as well, trying to assassinate a single emissary with my rogue (assassin specialized) and zev and having the stupid emissary spin around and cast a spell rather than just gurgle and die was much the same sort of thing. Basically constantly having to worry about mechanics removes a lot of the enjoyment of the situation you are in at the time. Defeating a foe in a duel by out drinking them in potions or loosing due to them being overpowered (Loghain in DA:O) completely removes any satisfaction and it hardly feels like a duel. The duel in DA2 was worse since it became utterly mechanical...bolster, bolster, shield bash, assault...regular hits...repeat for 15 or so minutes. Uhm...drama none...interest none...excitement none...duel feeling none. I have to admit in playing a PnP RPG I have my most fun in the combat system when I know the rules the least, so instead I just do what feels natural for a combat situation. Playing in CoH and having my scrapper start a combat by running around like a mad loon to pick up all the targets in my "taunt aura" is much the same sort of insane mechanic. Being able to "fry and flash" in AoC with my demonologist dropping my AOE spells into the middle of a melee battle and hitting only the enemies was equally immersion killing. Or the fact that in AoC your demon was this useless buff generating thing...for me it totally killed the joy of being a demonologist when I could do more damage with my dagger then my demon could do. Getting hit over your head with "does not compute" stuff isn't good for immersion when it is all said and done.

This is very much a hard to define point though. The taking you out of the game is present as well in DA:O-A but it is simply much more in your face in DA2 (or ME2 when you come right down to it). Clearly it is a your millage may vary thing as well; it is very clearly a your millage may vary judgment.

[Patchwork]

Why there wasn't an option for Merrill to speak when her clan were baying for her blood is beyond me. Merrill's actions were her own doing let her take responsibility not Hawke.

The relationship metre, giving her the crafting tool or not etc should influence what she says and whether you have to fight the clan, turn on her or leave should remain Hawke's choice but it's a companion quest and should have played out dependant on Merrill not Hawke.

Compare it to Isabela and the tome, there's several ways for that to playout based on both past actions and the choices Hawke makes in the Keep.

[Mark of the Dragon]

My least favorite part was the companions they weren't real enough. They had good stories but the was talking to your companions was handled was a total change from the first. One of my favorite things about origin was that you could just talk to a party memeber if u needed a break on DA2 I had to wait til they wanted to talk or I just got some generic reply. Also I hated how I played 60 hours on Origins just to have my descisions mean nothing in DA2. The file transfers where awful and it was like my deciion meant nothing. "Whys Nathaniel looking for the architect when he's dead?" or how Leliana acted like she didn't know my Warden when they were together!! Those little things can mess up a game. That being said DA2 was a good game and I truly think Bioware can turn the whole game around by fixing a few glitches and by letting u explore outside Kirkwall in the DLC. I have total faith in the Bioware team.

[Mark of the Dragon]

Oh yea but I loved the rival friendship meter and how all the companion were available for either gender.It allowed the game to be personal for every player and thats how every game should be.

[ApostleinTriumph]

I REALLY HATE THE COMBAT SYSTEM!! Seriously words just cannot describe my hatred why oh why you decided to let 5-10 more enemies jump on us periodically through every fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's exhausting I've wasted a damn hour trying to get through a fight nothing I do works I just hate this thing I JUST FREAKING HATE IT!

[Realmzmaster]

ApostleinTriumph wrote...

I REALLY HATE THE COMBAT SYSTEM!! Seriously words just cannot describe my hatred why oh why you decided to let 5-10 more enemies jump on us periodically through every fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's exhausting I've wasted a damn hour trying to get through a fight nothing I do works I just hate this thing I JUST FREAKING HATE IT!

But I love it! Makes the combat much more fun than DAO! Having to think tactically on the fly. I like it. Enemies dropping from the sky are a lot like paratroopers or the Japanese coming up out of their tunnel systems on the islands.

[gillouzekid]

Is it only to me that it happens or does none of the dispell and silence spells for the templar spec work ?

[craigdolphin]

Just want to add that I miss puzzles. Even DAO had one token puzzle. Da2....nada.

[PSRdirector]

Please go back to origins, It was an amazing game one of my favorite of all time. You took what waasnt broken and broke it. Most of your changes were for the worse in all catagories. I know you want to appeal to a wider audiance, but I would rather you just make the budget smaller make the graphics worse and make it like it was before.. I miss my origins

[Meglort]

I have tried unsuccessfully to get into DA2 and have aborted playing it three times - never finishing it and at this point have no interest in doing so after pre-ordering it - because DAO was such a brilliant game, I wanted more and expected you to deliver DAO/A++.

So I am back there now, playing DAO/DAA for like the 15th+ time. After going back to it again after perservering with DA2, but from the richness of the community add-ons, Bioware created DLC quests, etc., it is clear how much a better game DAO/A is than DA2.

Sorry, but what were you thinking? DA2 in hindsight is just money goulging from your fans. Please make more content for DAO if you have to, because DA2 is bloody awful. There is a not a single thing about it I prefer in it over DAO/A - the voiced main character (this completely ruins it for me everytime he or she opens their mouth), the boring, repetitive environments you do over and over and over and over again - even knowing where enemies are going to spawn from or hide and where the loot is going be before you see it, the lack of complexity in the environment/quests, the lack of puzzles, the inability to kit-out your squad, the stupid skill trees, the way the dog is implemented, no camp, no real ability to interact with your squad, no humour, the waves of enemies, the character creator (or lack thereof), the single-line narrative, etc., etc. The incessant, mindless killing and nothing much else...is this an RPG or DOOM 2 with swords @ 1080P?

I Like some of the spells though I have to admit but this could be an add-on to DAO/A IMHO.

Doesn't matter if you make a DA3 because clearly you have no clue as to why DAO/A was such a great game having created the piece of crap that is DA2, I am no longer really interested personally in what ever comes next, rather save my money and time for other games. Absolutely loving DAO/DAA yet again though ;-) Clearly to me that was Bioware's swansong.

My 2c worth...

[Tirfan]

Well, what can I say, I did not like DA2, I finished it however but that was just me not liking to be a quitter, I paid for it so damn me but I am going to play it to the bitter end. the storyline didn't work for me - although I can see the potential of it, I liked the idea of more politically oriented plot, you can't really argue against it being somewhat more "mature" (not perhaps the best expression here but I can't think of a better one) than the more classical "save the world"-plot of origins. However much potential the plot did have, the execution did not work, plain and simple, your choices had no meaning etc.

And trying to make the story more politically oriented, I think, would really have to mean that the game would be directed towards the older generation of gamers, people who can actually take interest in Thedas and the cultures and politics of it. (Okay, I'm propably going to get hate for this - yes I know that there are younger gamers who can really enjoy these kinds of plots, but really dealing in politics, culture or religion and in the conflicts these things can have demands a bit more involvement from the players, or dumbing down these interractions). This of course brings me to the combat, which I absolutely loathed, half the time I had no idea what was going in the battles because they were so much of a blur because of the ridiculous speed of the combat and lack of tactical view. The reason I bring combat up at this point is that because of the changes to it the game really felt as if it had severe multiple personality disorder, the plot tried to be more appealing to older gamers whereas combat seemed to be made for the younger ones.

I could also whine about the lack of companion customization (there really was none, I didn't like it) and about the fact that you couldn't change your companions armor but I think I can see why this change was made, it did add something to the atmosphere, your companions at least didn't seem like a ragtag band of adventurers with whatever pieces of armor you could find, but well, at the same time it took a lot of depth out of the game (deciding whether to wear light, medium or heavy armor on your 2handed warrior for example, with light you could really utilize the potential of using skills, but there was always some incidental damage coming to them in the fray so you had to pay more attention to them, medium armor you could take a few of those hits and with heavy armor the character could even offtank a bit in a tight spot) I wouldn't mind forcing your companions to wear only full armor sets, but I really would like to see some actual customization to them.

All in all, DA2 was awful, it was a prologue, it offered a setting to DA3 where the world is in great turmoil and some marvelous stories can be told about this time. I am to be honest, afraid of what DA3 will be, if combat will be good and the story has some significance it can be amazing, there are so many things you could do with it to give the setting some flavor and make the atmosphere great. I personally would like to see, now that Thedas seems to be rather divided with chantry loyalists and mage-supporters some indication in the npcs to which group they belong - chantry loyalists frequently wearing an amulet with the andraste's symbol so you can see from the moment you start a conversation with them that "okay, this guy loves the chantry" and the mage-supporters having some other distinguishing thing. And this is of course a great chance to do a bit more work on mage armors, oh those robes, most of them look awful, why robes anyway? shouldn't any clothing type of item suffice? The circle loyalist mages of course should still wear those ugly robes, does them right for not wanting their freedom..

[In Exile]

This is a short point on the paraphrase I mentioned in a few other threads:

The problem with having VO isn't the dialogue wheel or the paraphrase. It's the design philosophy. Bioware rightly believes that hearing the line said back to you after you pick it is redundant and hurts enjoyment. That part is true. But the solution isn't to have the line worded in an entirely unrelated way. The paraphrase should contain the gist of what will be said using most of the same words.For example

P: She won't be alone.
V: At least father will have company now.

vs.

P: Father won't be alone.
V: At least father will have company now.

[Melca36]

The Bone Pit quests....

I need more than just Hubert telling me to visit the Bone pit Periodically.

I had no idea there were two more quests after the spider one until I read it on the boards. Receiving a letter would have been great.

Also...would prefer more side quests like that and the Magistrate's Orders instead of Fetch and Delivery quests.

I don't care about Quantity...I just want Quality

[Aesieru]

I don't like how owning the bone bit did... NOTHING for me.