Can you please advise should imeon stay as a thief or double up to mage/thief,your thoughts appreciated
also thanks to all the people for there previous help, i appreciate the answers
Re Imeon
Débuté par
majnoon53
, mars 15 2011 06:57
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 07:54
Flamedance
-
- Members
- 370 messages
Imoen is pretty much set up to be dualclassed to mage, statwise. I you're playing vanilla or Tutu, i'd give her enough points in Traps to deal with any trap in the game. Place some points in open locks as well. Open locks isn't really that important, but you probably want 50 points in it, for convenience sake. You really want Find Traps to be at 90 to deal with the traps in Durlag's Tower, some of which are pretty nasty.
Of course, you can also hire another thief and simply dual her to mage at lvl 2. Both Sofana and Alora are good thieves. In Alora's case, you want the mod that places her in Gullykin, instead of in Baldur's Gate.
Of course, you can also hire another thief and simply dual her to mage at lvl 2. Both Sofana and Alora are good thieves. In Alora's case, you want the mod that places her in Gullykin, instead of in Baldur's Gate.
#3
Posté 15 mars 2011 - 09:44
Biotic_Warlock
-
- Members
- 7 852 messages
Imoen should stay theif early in game if you are already not a thief, or do not have montaron.
You need a thief to deal with the traps in nashkel mines.
You need a thief to deal with the traps in nashkel mines.
#4
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 12:36
Sparky The Barbarian
-
- Members
- 147 messages
I hate dual classing in 2E rules. Leave her as a thief.
#5
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 08:11
The Fred
-
- Members
- 2 516 messages
Mages are so much cooler than thieves. Dualing Immy is cool, but there's a problem in that if you dual her early, you need another thief, and if you dual her late, it takes ages for her to get her abilities back, and she's probably not got them just as you need them most (Candlekeep Ch6 and Durlag's Tower sort of time). I did realise, though, that you can pretty much max Find Traps by L4 and dual her then (which is what I'm doing in my no-reload atm) and either use bashing or Knock to open doors. I'm lucky in that one of my mods adds an overpowered item which allows her to cast Knock what seems to be an unlimited number of times, but I had actually planned to pick up Safana, give her many points in Open Lock, have her read the Tome of Intellect and then dual *her* to mage as well, meaning I'd eventually have two Thief/Mages who between them could cover both traps and locks. It might be easier just to have a dedicated mage, though.
#6
Posté 20 mars 2011 - 08:21
Biotic_Warlock
-
- Members
- 7 852 messages
Unless you have lots of knock spells and dual her at level 3 or 4 thief after literally dumping all your points into find traps.
#7
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 07:59
Pangaea
-
- Members
- 142 messages
I dualed her at level 6 (iirc) when she had 100 in both lockpicking and trapfinding. Ready to enter the city now and she still hasn't gotten thieving back. So I recommend doing it earlier than that as it's a pain to have to bust through traps in Nashkel, not to mention two spider and trap infested areas.
Nashkel isn't a huge deal as there aren't that many traps, but in the other mines you have to fight some nasty creatures if you can't detect any traps.
Nashkel isn't a huge deal as there aren't that many traps, but in the other mines you have to fight some nasty creatures if you can't detect any traps.
#8
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 04:14
Biotic_Warlock
-
- Members
- 7 852 messages
Have you done Werewolf island yet?
Spoiler:
Lots of XP there and almost no traps at all - the only traps being on crates.
And lots of wolves with good THAC0 - although kagain with his -10 AC vs slashing was good enough only to be hit on 20.
Spoiler:
Lots of XP there and almost no traps at all - the only traps being on crates.
And lots of wolves with good THAC0 - although kagain with his -10 AC vs slashing was good enough only to be hit on 20.
#9
Posté 21 mars 2011 - 08:32
Charlestonian Knight Templar
-
- Members
- 981 messages
I'm playing the basic party (i.e. PC, Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, Dynahier). I wanted them to finish at the end of TOTSC as close as possible to where they begin in SOA. That's easy for Khalid and Dynahier but a little trickier for the others.
A key part of that was dualing Imoen after 7th level to Mage.
I don't remember the old AD&D rules but when I made the change I lost (best I could tell) everything Imoen had earned as a thief - 100% traps and locks for starters. I hated to give that up. Plus, she couldn't use her bow anymore which I know she uses in SOA. In addition, she couldn't wear even leather armor - I thought she could in SOA.
How does that work? And what's the difference between that and Jaheira who tracks as both fighter and druid?
I vaguely remember something in the AD&D rules that described "dual class" but I never much pllayed it so I'm not familiar.
Any help?
A key part of that was dualing Imoen after 7th level to Mage.
I don't remember the old AD&D rules but when I made the change I lost (best I could tell) everything Imoen had earned as a thief - 100% traps and locks for starters. I hated to give that up. Plus, she couldn't use her bow anymore which I know she uses in SOA. In addition, she couldn't wear even leather armor - I thought she could in SOA.
How does that work? And what's the difference between that and Jaheira who tracks as both fighter and druid?
I vaguely remember something in the AD&D rules that described "dual class" but I never much pllayed it so I'm not familiar.
Any help?
#10
Posté 24 mars 2011 - 07:06
Son of Imoen
-
- Members
- 521 messages
Sir Templar,
when I read your question I was tired and hoped someone else would answer it, as it takes some time to explain. But as you still have no answer, I give it a shot.
first of all: the AD&D rules are very well summarized by Dan Simpson's AD&D FAQ: http://www.gamefaqs....-gate/faqs/8566
Now in my own words and taking your example. First multi-classing, the most easy one to explain:
Jaheira is a multi-class Fighter-Druid. She can be one because she is non-human. See above FAQ or the character creation screen to know which races can become what multi-class.
In multi-class, characters have both the advantages and disadvantages of both classes active all the time, and xp is equally split between both classes, so in both classes advancement is half as fast as in single-class characters (or in in case of F/M/T and F/M/C, a third as fast).
So Jaheira can have more than 1 * in weapon proficiencies because she's a fighter, but she can only use and become proficient in weapons that are allowed for a Druid. The advancement is smooth, she will be both fighter and druid all the time.
Dual-classing is very different: there are 3 stages of advancement. Take Imoen for example. She can be dual-classed to Mage (because she is a. human, b. has minimal 15 in DEX, the prime requisite for Thieves, her first class and c. has minimal 17 in INT, the prime requisite of the class you can dual her to, Mage). Dual-classing can be done from level 2 onwards. As soon as you click dual-class and choose a class, she will lose all abilities of her first class for now (except gained hit points), they become passive. She will only have the abilities of the second class and advances in the second class, Mage, as fast as a single-class character. XP is not split. It is given to only the starting class untill she dual-classes, and only the second one after she dual-classes.
When she reaches one level more in her new class than in first class, the abilities of the first class become active again.
So, the conclusion of the story: if you dual-class Imoen at level 7, she will be a level 1 mage and all Thief abilities, like pick locks etc., become inactive untill she reaches level 8 in her second class. From T7>M1 to T7>M7 she has only mage abilities, and can't wear armour because she is a mage. From T7>M8 onward, her thieving abilities are active again but won't advance beyond level 7. She will be able to don Thief armour then, if you want to, but won't be able to cast spells while wearing armour.
So you will have to advance her through 8 mage-levels to get her thief-abilities back. If you start a new BG2 game, she will start of as T7>M8, and that's the reason she can detect traps and open locks in the starting dungeon.
Phew, that's a long story, Probably the reason you didn't get an answer earlier.
when I read your question I was tired and hoped someone else would answer it, as it takes some time to explain. But as you still have no answer, I give it a shot.
first of all: the AD&D rules are very well summarized by Dan Simpson's AD&D FAQ: http://www.gamefaqs....-gate/faqs/8566
Now in my own words and taking your example. First multi-classing, the most easy one to explain:
Jaheira is a multi-class Fighter-Druid. She can be one because she is non-human. See above FAQ or the character creation screen to know which races can become what multi-class.
In multi-class, characters have both the advantages and disadvantages of both classes active all the time, and xp is equally split between both classes, so in both classes advancement is half as fast as in single-class characters (or in in case of F/M/T and F/M/C, a third as fast).
So Jaheira can have more than 1 * in weapon proficiencies because she's a fighter, but she can only use and become proficient in weapons that are allowed for a Druid. The advancement is smooth, she will be both fighter and druid all the time.
Dual-classing is very different: there are 3 stages of advancement. Take Imoen for example. She can be dual-classed to Mage (because she is a. human, b. has minimal 15 in DEX, the prime requisite for Thieves, her first class and c. has minimal 17 in INT, the prime requisite of the class you can dual her to, Mage). Dual-classing can be done from level 2 onwards. As soon as you click dual-class and choose a class, she will lose all abilities of her first class for now (except gained hit points), they become passive. She will only have the abilities of the second class and advances in the second class, Mage, as fast as a single-class character. XP is not split. It is given to only the starting class untill she dual-classes, and only the second one after she dual-classes.
When she reaches one level more in her new class than in first class, the abilities of the first class become active again.
So, the conclusion of the story: if you dual-class Imoen at level 7, she will be a level 1 mage and all Thief abilities, like pick locks etc., become inactive untill she reaches level 8 in her second class. From T7>M1 to T7>M7 she has only mage abilities, and can't wear armour because she is a mage. From T7>M8 onward, her thieving abilities are active again but won't advance beyond level 7. She will be able to don Thief armour then, if you want to, but won't be able to cast spells while wearing armour.
So you will have to advance her through 8 mage-levels to get her thief-abilities back. If you start a new BG2 game, she will start of as T7>M8, and that's the reason she can detect traps and open locks in the starting dungeon.
Phew, that's a long story, Probably the reason you didn't get an answer earlier.
#11
Posté 27 mars 2011 - 12:48
The Fred
-
- Members
- 2 516 messages
The problem with her being the party thief is that, aside from needing a lot of XP for her to get her abilities back (as all dual-class characters do), you need to time her dualing in the game such that you aren't stuck in an area where there are lots of traps to deal with. So, you need to sync her level advancement up with her advancement in the story. You have a few options:
1) Never dual her. This way she can be the party thief, gets plenty of points, can fight a bit, and can backstab etc (even if you spend your points in traps and locks, there are the Boots of Stealth which will make her able to hide at least some of the time).
2) Dual her right away. You can essentially make her into a mage, only with thief proficiencies. This stinks a bit, though, because she only gets one weapon slot, mean she's actually more awkward than a mage unless you always want her to use a bow. A mage with a bow and slightly more HP is not that much better than a plain mage, though. You will also need another thief.
3) Get another thief. If you are doing (2) you'll need to do this anyway, but this way you could also dual her very late, taking a temporary thief for the meantime. You could even take Safana and dual them both, timing it so that you always have one active thief (in theory).
4) Time the dual. It's best to do Nashkel with a thief, though not necessary. After that, you need one for the Cloakwood, though I'd argue the web traps in the spider area are worse than the ones in the mines (the Doom Guard traps actually give you more XP, there are just two others you have to deal with). You could dual her right after Cloakwood (there's a lot of XP in Ch 5 which doesn't involve traps, since Ch 5 is in the city), possibly rushing it to keep her dual early. Just remember, Ch 4 is tough but doable, but Durlag's Tower and Ch 6 are a lot harder without a thief (I'm not going to say undoable, because people have done solos etc, but not recommended).
Obviously there's option (5) which is to lose her altogether, but then you may as well just do (1).
1) Never dual her. This way she can be the party thief, gets plenty of points, can fight a bit, and can backstab etc (even if you spend your points in traps and locks, there are the Boots of Stealth which will make her able to hide at least some of the time).
2) Dual her right away. You can essentially make her into a mage, only with thief proficiencies. This stinks a bit, though, because she only gets one weapon slot, mean she's actually more awkward than a mage unless you always want her to use a bow. A mage with a bow and slightly more HP is not that much better than a plain mage, though. You will also need another thief.
3) Get another thief. If you are doing (2) you'll need to do this anyway, but this way you could also dual her very late, taking a temporary thief for the meantime. You could even take Safana and dual them both, timing it so that you always have one active thief (in theory).
4) Time the dual. It's best to do Nashkel with a thief, though not necessary. After that, you need one for the Cloakwood, though I'd argue the web traps in the spider area are worse than the ones in the mines (the Doom Guard traps actually give you more XP, there are just two others you have to deal with). You could dual her right after Cloakwood (there's a lot of XP in Ch 5 which doesn't involve traps, since Ch 5 is in the city), possibly rushing it to keep her dual early. Just remember, Ch 4 is tough but doable, but Durlag's Tower and Ch 6 are a lot harder without a thief (I'm not going to say undoable, because people have done solos etc, but not recommended).
Obviously there's option (5) which is to lose her altogether, but then you may as well just do (1).
#12
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 04:59
bussinrounds
-
- Members
- 1 434 messages
Is it too late for me to dual her ?
I'm in the the end of Cloakwood 1, and she just got to lv 6 (20,240 ex).
I have 75 in finding traps. ( after leveling up to 6 )
I'm doing the BWP so it's one big game and i don't want her to be stuck a theif the whole time.
I'm in the the end of Cloakwood 1, and she just got to lv 6 (20,240 ex).
I have 75 in finding traps. ( after leveling up to 6 )
I'm doing the BWP so it's one big game and i don't want her to be stuck a theif the whole time.
#13
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 08:26
Son of Imoen
-
- Members
- 521 messages
It's 60.000 xp more if you dual now to get to level 7 mage and get her Thief skills back. It's doable, especially if BWP got you extra quests to get xp, but you must either avoid the areas that got a lot of traps or get another thief in the meantime. You will meet or just have met Coran, you might take him as a replacement thief.
Be warned of some tough enemies at the end of this chapter, if you can't disable traps.
Be warned of some tough enemies at the end of this chapter, if you can't disable traps.
#14
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 05:16
bussinrounds
-
- Members
- 1 434 messages
Will Coran be able to deal with the traps in Cloakwood and Durlag's tower if i do pick him up now though ?
And wouldn't i want to get Imoen's trap finding up a little higher before i do decide to dual her ?
Is anyone fimilar with the BWP and extra quests i could do for exp in the meantime ?
I already did the Secret of Bone Hill pt1. How would i get pt2 started anyway ?
And wouldn't i want to get Imoen's trap finding up a little higher before i do decide to dual her ?
Is anyone fimilar with the BWP and extra quests i could do for exp in the meantime ?
I already did the Secret of Bone Hill pt1. How would i get pt2 started anyway ?
Modifié par bussinrounds, 30 mars 2011 - 05:21 .
#15
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 08:05
Son of Imoen
-
- Members
- 521 messages
Sorry, I can't answer all your questions, as I'm not familiar with BWP.
How good Coran's skill in detecting traps is, you'd best find out by taking him into your party just to check it out, and reloading or kicking him out if you don't like it - as profiency point allocation on npc's can be influenced by mods. I can't check what's Coran's proficiency is in your game. You should do that for yourself. It depends on Coran's level as well, which is dependend, i think, on your average party level when you pick him up.
If his trap detection is 75 or more, it should be enough. You can also boost it with potions. The same holds true for Imoen. I wouldn't wait longer. Immy is lvl 6 you said? So waiting will mean dualing at level 7=40.000 xp. Then wait till she's level 8 Mage=90.000 xp to get Thief skills back, is 110.000 xp in total. I would advice against it. In a vanilla game, you will have a hard time getting enough xp before chapter 6 without doing things that require you to deal with traps. Chapter 6, 7 and Durlag's Tower are rich in traps, so the challenge would be to get Immy to level 8 Mage before chapter 6 and without the xp for Durlag's Tower.
Maybe someone else can tell you if enough 'trap-free xp' can be found with BWP. What quest mods do you have installed?
Maybe my advice to not wait till level 7 but dual now is too conservative and based on BG1+Tales of the SwordCoast xp only. If you do mine all the xp in a BWP install though, you might find either the end battle tediously easy if you remove the xp cap, or find yourself wandering around without getting any more xp for a long time as you'll be at level-cap long before the end game. In my own hand-made 'TutuMegaMod install' (I don't like the automation of BWP and having to make decisions about the SOA/TOB part before you even left the tutelage of Gorion), I have installed the ding0 experience fixer to set quest and creature xp at 50% to prevent that. Does your BWP install include a xp fix and what is it sat at?
How good Coran's skill in detecting traps is, you'd best find out by taking him into your party just to check it out, and reloading or kicking him out if you don't like it - as profiency point allocation on npc's can be influenced by mods. I can't check what's Coran's proficiency is in your game. You should do that for yourself. It depends on Coran's level as well, which is dependend, i think, on your average party level when you pick him up.
If his trap detection is 75 or more, it should be enough. You can also boost it with potions. The same holds true for Imoen. I wouldn't wait longer. Immy is lvl 6 you said? So waiting will mean dualing at level 7=40.000 xp. Then wait till she's level 8 Mage=90.000 xp to get Thief skills back, is 110.000 xp in total. I would advice against it. In a vanilla game, you will have a hard time getting enough xp before chapter 6 without doing things that require you to deal with traps. Chapter 6, 7 and Durlag's Tower are rich in traps, so the challenge would be to get Immy to level 8 Mage before chapter 6 and without the xp for Durlag's Tower.
Maybe someone else can tell you if enough 'trap-free xp' can be found with BWP. What quest mods do you have installed?
Maybe my advice to not wait till level 7 but dual now is too conservative and based on BG1+Tales of the SwordCoast xp only. If you do mine all the xp in a BWP install though, you might find either the end battle tediously easy if you remove the xp cap, or find yourself wandering around without getting any more xp for a long time as you'll be at level-cap long before the end game. In my own hand-made 'TutuMegaMod install' (I don't like the automation of BWP and having to make decisions about the SOA/TOB part before you even left the tutelage of Gorion), I have installed the ding0 experience fixer to set quest and creature xp at 50% to prevent that. Does your BWP install include a xp fix and what is it sat at?
#16
Posté 30 mars 2011 - 09:14
bussinrounds
-
- Members
- 1 434 messages
I'm not sure, as i'm a noob at this, but this thread shows all the mods i have installed. Bakan is a friend of mine that did the installation.
http://www.shsforums...ef50a872458c39b
Thanks for trying to help me out , btw.
http://www.shsforums...ef50a872458c39b
Thanks for trying to help me out , btw.
#17
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 10:05
Son of Imoen
-
- Members
- 521 messages
It's a long list of course, so I did a CTRL-F (find option) for xp: Your xp cap is removed, so characters keep on climbing in experience, but xp for creature kills and quests is halved and xp for using skills (pick pocket, find traps, learn spells) is set at 10%, so there should be no risk for taking the challenge out of the game by getting too much xp.
As for what additional quest content is doable without an active thief, someone else who already did additional quests, should take a look at your installed mods and answer that question.
As for what additional quest content is doable without an active thief, someone else who already did additional quests, should take a look at your installed mods and answer that question.
#18
Posté 05 avril 2011 - 09:23
Charlestonian Knight Templar
-
- Members
- 981 messages
Son of Imoen, The Fred, Hey, I wanted to thank ya'll for your feedback on my original question. After a day or two I thought that one had fallen on deaf ears. I just happened to be trolling this afternoon and saw your thorough response(s). Also, appreciate the tip on where to find a recap of the old AD&D rules. I played in HS in the early 80s with the DMs Guide, Monster Manual(s), Player's Handbook etc and pieces of paper for character record sheets. Wow! Hoe the game has progressed. Anyway, thanks for the refresher on multi-class and dual-class. The light bulb went on - albeit dimly - as I was reading your response.
#19
Posté 06 avril 2011 - 09:37
Charlestonian Knight Templar
-
- Members
- 981 messages
Here's another dumb question that I don't recall the answer to and don't see in the FAQ. Rounds vs Turns? What defines a round? What defines a turn?
It seems that, as I once again recollect old D&D rules a "melee round" was six seconds but beyond that I don't recall.
Would you mind helping me there?
It seems that, as I once again recollect old D&D rules a "melee round" was six seconds but beyond that I don't recall.
Would you mind helping me there?
#20
Posté 07 avril 2011 - 03:09
bussinrounds
-
- Members
- 1 434 messages
A round is 6 seconds. A turn is 10 rounds (60 seconds). A game day is just over 2 hours long in real time.
#21
Posté 07 avril 2011 - 06:58
Grond0
-
- Members
- 6 497 messages
Within Forum Settings you have the option to be emailed when someone responds to a post you create. That might be handy if you want to make sure you don't miss an answer to your questions.Charlestonian Knight Templar wrote...
Son of Imoen, The Fred, Hey, I wanted to thank ya'll for your feedback on my original question. After a day or two I thought that one had fallen on deaf ears. I just happened to be trolling this afternoon and saw your thorough response(s). Also, appreciate the tip on where to find a recap of the old AD&D rules. I played in HS in the early 80s with the DMs Guide, Monster Manual(s), Player's Handbook etc and pieces of paper for character record sheets. Wow! Hoe the game has progressed. Anyway, thanks for the refresher on multi-class and dual-class. The light bulb went on - albeit dimly - as I was reading your response.
#22
Posté 07 avril 2011 - 01:34
Charlestonian Knight Templar
-
- Members
- 981 messages
Bussinrounds, Thanks. Just what I needed. Always tryin' to figure out if I need to throw the spell first that lasts "x" amount of rounds or quaff the potion that last "x" amount of turns. Your feedback helps lots. Thanks again.
Grond0: Thanks for the tip. That'll help too!
Grond0: Thanks for the tip. That'll help too!
