305 réponses à ce sujet

[just.a.dude]

Well, lets be honest, the end is really the beginning. DAO&A were about a mythical enemy. DA2 explores one of the social issues touched upon in DAO&A, oppression. In my opinion it is quite well done. Varric describes it quite well at the beginning of the third act: "The tighter Meredith squeeze, the more the Mages defended themselves, which lead to Meredith squeezing tighter."

Sure, the major events of the story will occur no matter what (as they did in DAO&A) and you are not deciding policy like you did in DAO&A, but you are forming your opinion on which side to join in probably the greatest conflict in the history of Thedas.

[Everwarden]

Lithuasil wrote...

Except for that no matter what I do, if I take over, New Vegas *always* goes down the drain, whether I did the hooverdam thing all alone, or head the entire ****ing wasteland, including artillery and multiple air support to back me up.

*Major New Vegas Spoilers!!!*

Depends on how you define 'down the drain'. I thought that my New Vegas under Mr. House was a bittersweet ending. Not perfect, but New Vegas became a beacon of progress and prosperity in the world. The Boomers opened up their borders to trade, he Fiends were defeated, the Legion forced into retreat, and the NCR given a boot to the ass and sent packing. The only downsides were the Kings getting wiped out, which annoyed me. but on the whole I thought it was very well done. Not a sterotypical happy ending, but definately a way for you to effect the world at large. 

[Lithuasil]

Well, I fried Mr. House. And the game tells me, gangs roam free in the outskirts and the whole place sinks into chaos. Problem is, at that time, I had sever battalions of artillery, a legion of killer robots, a b52, a vertibird, a solar deathstar, a brotherhood chapter, and more men then the legion and the ncr together at my disposal.
In DA2, wading in with nothing but me and half a dozen friends, I'm ok with not making much of a difference. It starts bothering me, when I have both mayor adversaries *together* outmanned and outgunned.

[Everwarden]

Lithuasil wrote...

Well, I fried Mr. House. And the game tells me, gangs roam free in the outskirts and the whole place sinks into chaos. Problem is, at that time, I had sever battalions of artillery, a legion of killer robots, a b52, a vertibird, a solar deathstar, a brotherhood chapter, and more men then the legion and the ncr together at my disposal.
In DA2, wading in with nothing but me and half a dozen friends, I'm ok with not making much of a difference. It starts bothering me, when I have both mayor adversaries *together* outmanned and outgunned.

The problem is that you have allies, don't mistake that to mean that they are under your command. The Boomers respect you, and fought in a battle for you, that doesn't mean they're going to install artillery guns around the Strip.

To the last part, you sadly don't have the other major factions outgunned. You likely left the Powder Gangers and Fiends with leadership and infrastructure intact, and that leads to them rampaging through the unprotected areas of Vegas. If you don't send aid to the Followers, they're run out of Vegas. Without the Followers Freeside falls into chaos. These aren't problems that are set in stone, these are things you could have fixed if you'd changed events prior to the final battle.  

Your legion of killer robots is used to make sure the NCR and Legion (who are weakened, but not completely outgunned as you seem to think) do not regroup and take the dam or New Vegas back. That doesn't leave a huge amount to deal with the raider and criminal problem you left behind. 

[AlexXIV]

Wasn't the topic about Fallout 3, not FO:NV?

Btw there are at least 2 almost perfect endings of FO:NV. Of maybe a dozen significantly different ones. So don't even start to compare that to DA2. That's ridiculous and just shows your fanboyism if anything.

Side with the NCR, make the Brotherhood support them, get the Great Khans out of the country and make sure the NCR does not find out about the Enclave guys. That's one almost perfect ending.

The other one is independend Vegas under the Couriers rule. Make the Enclave help you and the Followers to deal with the victims, get help of the Brotherhood, become leader of the great Khans. Ta-da independend Vegas and almost nothing goes wrong. Well some casualties always happen in war.

Only thing about FO:NV that their epilogue has some holes. For example there is no word about the Brotherhood when you rule the independent Vegas.

[Lithuasil]

I'm pretty sure my Icarus deathstar means I have anything outgunned they could possibly bring. And thing is, it's not possible to get a different ending. You can wipe every single person, that doesn't heed your commands, off the face of the game world, and bot factions still show up for the big battle (without their leaders no less), and the no longer existent gangs still roam the streets. You take over new vegas yourself, city sinks into chaos.

[Everwarden]

AlexXIV wrote...

Wasn't the topic about Fallout 3, not FO:NV?

True enough, but I think FO:NV is relevant because it shows how to get an ending -right-. It isn't perfect, but it's still exceptionally good, and really rewards you for attention to detail and punishes you for a rushed game.

[Icy Magebane]

Aside from Meredith's betrayal, the Templar ending was pretty good. I was playing as a hardcore Templar-supporter the whole time, and having them bow before Hawke was satisfying. I'm just hoping for a Dragon Age 2: Aftermath DLC so we can actually see what happens next... although there's probably no way in hell they're going to make 2 separate storylines in one DLC based on whether you picked mage or templar... It would be awesome, but probably not cost-effective. I guess. IMO, good products are going to make money... I don't know why they wouldn't just make the best possible games. Games that actually reflect the decisions the player made, etc...

The mage ending wasn't bad either... I honestly don't mind this cliffhanger stuff, but only if Hawke makes another appearance. I won't be happy if they just leave us hanging forever...

Side Note: The only NV ending I haven't seen is anything related to Mr. House. I kill him every time because he's condescending... lol... not so smart after all, inviting me inside your stronghold, eh House? I like to play all the angles, so don't judge me too harshly, but I like the Very Evil Courier/Legion ending. It's brutal... maybe I'll play that game again soon. I'd pretty much gotten sick of it, but it's been a while.

[Everwarden]

Lithuasil wrote...
You can wipe every single person, that doesn't heed your commands, off the face of the game world, and bot factions still show up for the big battle (without their leaders no less), and the no longer existent gangs still roam the streets. You take over new vegas yourself, city sinks into chaos.

No. If the gangs are roaming in your epilogue you did it wrong.

And the Helios I is actually very weak, Veronica mentions that it's just a glorified howitzer with a one-day recharge. That's useful, but doesn't mean you outgun the NCR, with an army in the tens of thousands, and the Legion with even more. 

[Foolsfolly]

You know, New Vegas was a really well made game.

...I personally found the replay value to be a touch less....but the roleplaying was excellent and the ending of the game felt great. Played it twice first a pro-NCR kind of guy and then as a 'Vegas should run itself' kind of guy. Really liked the second playthrough's ending. Felt like I was creating something.

[Lithuasil]

I don't want to derail the thread any further, but imho, New Vegas (which was nowhere near as buggy as everybody claimed) imho failed completely, once you got to the city, because you got way too powerful way too fast, and everybody had laserguns. :|

[The Baconer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Interesting. I had a dialog option, maybe because I'd been so "good" that when I asked Fawkes (the giant mutant) to go into the room he replied "I am immune to radiation. You are a good friend. I will do this for you." But you had to select the proper dialog sequence which I happened to luck upon.

Before Broken Steel there was no way to get any of your followers to activate the purifier.

[Everwarden]

Lithuasil wrote...

I don't want to derail the thread any further, but imho, New Vegas (which was nowhere near as buggy as everybody claimed) imho failed completely, once you got to the city, because you got way too powerful way too fast, and everybody had laserguns. :|

You know for someone who claimed that I back down when I start an argument, you back down fairly fast.

Without admitting that you're wrong about your previous points you change the subject, throw out a red herring, and declare yourself the victor. Fail. 

Modifié par Everwarden, 30 mars 2011 - 12:42 .

[Lithuasil]

So how does you saying I did something wrong change the ending I got?

And how does an army of guys fighting with machetes outgun my orbital lasers, vertibird, powerarmored brotherhood members, killer robots and my own supply of crazy babarians, I wonder? :|

[Everwarden]

Lithuasil wrote...

So how does you saying I did something wrong change the ending I got?

And how does an army of guys fighting with machetes outgun my orbital lasers, vertibird, powerarmored brotherhood members, killer robots and my own supply of crazy babarians, I wonder? :|

You have one orbital laser on a one-day cooldown with an obvious "Big explosion is gonna be here!" warning three seconds before the explosion hits. The vertibird isn't yours, your allies used it. The brotherhood isn't your army of power-armored manservants, they're a faction with their own goals and agenda, and typically that involves ignoring the outside world at large. You do have an army of killer robots, and that will be occupied keeping the peace and guarding the strip and the dam. 

You make it sound as though New Vegas didn't have ways to fix the ending you got. The end you got was because you didn't bother killing the Fiend or Powder Ganger leadership, so they continue to loot and kill, that makes complete sense and it isn't a fault of the game if you didn't take the time to solve a problem it presented you with early. 

[AlexXIV]

Lithuasil wrote...

So how does you saying I did something wrong change the ending I got?

And how does an army of guys fighting with machetes outgun my orbital lasers, vertibird, powerarmored brotherhood members, killer robots and my own supply of crazy babarians, I wonder? :|

If you do things different, the ending changes. What's your point? You want the same ending whatever you do? And don't start a realism discussion. There is not enough of it in DA2 to even get started.

[Lithuasil]

When I exterminated them, it's a fault of the game.
And you're mixing up lore and gameplay however suits you. If we're arguing gameplay, I have the legion outgunned, because I personally massacred their entire camp, with a colt, in a leather jacket.
If we're arguing gameplay, orbital lasers are a pretty convincing argument.

[Lithuasil]

@AlexXIV

My point is, if I'm powerless, forcing an ending on me is fine. If I have a considerable army at my disposal, forcing parts of endings on me, without reason, or because I didn't kill a single bandit (which I totally can't do anymore, after I conquered the dam), that's not fine.

[AlexXIV]

Lithuasil wrote...

When I exterminated them, it's a fault of the game.
And you're mixing up lore and gameplay however suits you. If we're arguing gameplay, I have the legion outgunned, because I personally massacred their entire camp, with a colt, in a leather jacket.
If we're arguing gameplay, orbital lasers are a pretty convincing argument.

And you are not mixing gameplay and lore? You can kill the whole camp, but that's gameplay, not lore. According to lore you can only kill Cesar and some of his guys. You don't wipe out the whole legion, ever. It's funny how you accuse people of the same things that you do all the time. So desperate to defend Bioware to throw dirt at games that are at least one class better?

[Everwarden]

Lithuasil wrote...

When I exterminated them, it's a fault of the game.

You didn't exterminate them. If you kill the leaders of the two respective gangs you get a different ending. You didn't, and now you're complaining about something that isn't the fault of the game and saying that your pewpew laser cannons should fix it.

If you want an in-lore example of someone declaring how useless the Helios I is, though... Veronica does it! She says -exactly- what I just did! That it's an artillery gun with a one-day cooldown, and it completely useless in any practical sense. That's lore, not mechanics. 

[Lithuasil]

AlexXIV wrote...
And you are not mixing gameplay and lore? You can kill the whole camp, but that's gameplay, not lore. According to lore you can only kill Cesar and some of his guys. You don't wipe out the whole legion, ever. It's funny how you accuse people of the same things that you do all the time. So desperate to defend Bioware to throw dirt at games that are at least one class better?

You realize that in your desperation to troll (c what I did thar?), you just repeated *exactly* what I was saying?
(Just as anyone with a level of reading comprehension beyond that of a baboon would by now have realized, that I criticize DA2 as much as I praise it, and simply object to the notion of calling it the worst game evarrr, not as long as it's the game that will hopefully set a new trend in certain areas)

[JayTheWolf]

 I didn't hate the game or the ending, but I did feel like they left out a lot of stuff. The only thing that bothers me is that I can't tell if they left it out on purpose, or if they ran out of time. 
That, to me, makes me dislike this game more than Origins. I love both, however. Definitely not a waste of cash. 

It was good. Just not BioWare good.

[Lithuasil]

Given the third act has more dangling threads then your average cat-toy, we can safely assume they ran out of time

[PlumPaul93]

at least the ending of FA3 told you the effect that the choices you made had in the game, can't say the same for this, although it wasn't like any choices you made in DA2 made any difference...