173 réponses à ce sujet

[MCPOWill]

I respect that fact Bioware has the ability to at least attempt to improve, fix, and streamline a sequel. Mass 2 felt better than Mass 1 and DA 2 felt better to play that DAO. Yes there are things that I miss but I trust in Bioware's ability to change a game.



.....Unlike a certain demonic order of necromancers who continue beat a dead corpse and try to bring back to life but fail with each subsequent entry...




I am looking at you Activision

Modifié par MCPOWill, 15 mars 2011 - 11:33 .

[Anathemic]

MCPOWill wrote...

I respect that fact Bioware has the ability to at least attempt to improve, fix, and streamline a sequel. Mass 2 felt better than Mass 1 and DA 2 felt better to play that DAO. Yes there are things that I miss but I trust in Bioware's ability to change a game.



.....Unlike a certain demonic order of necromancers who continue beat a dead corpse and try to bring back to life but fail with each subsequent entry...




I am looking at you Activision

I

Activision Blizzard over EA any day

I'm lookign at you EA Sports

[didymos1120]

Galad22 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

It's his opinion ******.

Gee, content-free personal attacks like this are just SOOOOOOO helpful. 

Well he thinks its ok to mock someones opinion just because metacritic doesn't agree with that particular opinion. Is that much more helpful?

Who did what now?  And why does that have any bearing on what I was responding to?

[Galad22]

didymos1120 wrote...

Who did what now?  And why does that have any bearing on what I was responding to?

Post that Anathemic reponded.

[Sporothrix]

Heh, that must be confusing for developer. ME2 got dumbed down - reviewers are extatic and perceive it as one of the best "RPG's" in history. DA2 got dumbed down - it's suddenly worst Bioware game.

Personally I don't like changes in both games, but it's funny when someone who thinks that ME2 was great complains about DA2.

Modifié par misoretu9, 15 mars 2011 - 11:25 .

[Eurhetemec]

Anathemic wrote...

I think Mass Effect 2 is bad, I played it, I beat it, I didn't have the motivation to go through a second playthrough, it was boring to me.

I'm not sure that you get what I'm explaining, so let me be clear. You think the best-reviewed game that BioWare have ever made, which is also one of their best-selling games, is bad.

You're allowed to think that, but what it proves is that you have very unusual opinions. Very few people think like you, for better or worse. Maybe you're smart and the rest of the world is "dumbasses". If so, to bad for you, because essentially game-buying is democratic, and the game that sells more is more successful.

My point is that many of the people claiming that DA2 is "bad" are also claiming ME2 is "bad". This means they're logically disallowed from using Metacritic scores to comment, and that their opinions of "good" and "bad" in games are so extremely minority that they probably have no bearing on whether a game is really good or bad.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Eurhetemec wrote...

So bad that is was the best reviewed game Bioware have ever made, and one of the best reviewed games of all time!

Clearly I don't think much of mainstream reviewers.  I've even said as much on these fora before.

I measure all games on the same scale.  The same criteria make them good or bad games.  And ME2 was bad.

It wasn't unplayably bad.  It wasn't Diablo or The Witcher.  But it was bad.

[Eurhetemec]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Clearly I don't think much of mainstream reviewers.  I've even said as much on these fora before.

I measure all games on the same scale.  The same criteria make them good or bad games.  And ME2 was bad.

It wasn't unplayably bad.  It wasn't Diablo or The Witcher.  But it was bad.

Your criteria are clearly very special and unique, and totally irrelevant to whether a game is successful or popular.

[didymos1120]

cosgamer wrote...

Improve and fix are contradictions to streamlining/dumbing down.

Really? You don't think streamlining is ever, ever, a good idea?  For instance, say a redesign of a universally derided, clumsy, overcomplicated UI?  Because such things are not unheard of in games and other software, and hardly anyone is ever sorry to them go. And no: I'm not saying DA:O had one.  But they do exist, and getting rid of them IS an improvement.  And sometimes, stuff in games just amounts to busywork that gives little to no real gain. Removing crap like that is also an improvement As to "dumbing down": loaded term, NOT synonymous with "streamlining", please be more specific.

[didymos1120]

Galad22 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Who did what now?  And why does that have any bearing on what I was responding to?

Post that Anathemic reponded.

Oh, no wonder:  he didn't rudely and explicitly insult someone for no reason whatsoever, but simply expressed confusion over someone's opinion.  So, yeah: irrelevant, not at all the same.

Modifié par didymos1120, 15 mars 2011 - 11:33 .

[Sporothrix]

Eurhetemec wrote...

Your criteria are clearly very special and unique, and totally irrelevant to whether a game is successful or popular.

Your either, since although ME2 had great reviews, its sales are in fact poor - similar to ME1 and DAO, much worse than for example any Fable or even Fallout: New Vegas - really bugged game with outdated graphic (but unlike ME2, it really can be called cRPG).

[Spatchmo]

toggled wrote...

DA2 is Bioware's only bad game. In fact, DA2 is the worst game I've played in 10 years. That's no hyperbole, that's honesty.

The question is whether Bioware will be able to recover from this blunder? The answer depends on whether the people that made the company great are still around or not. If they are, and if they're able to retake control of the company, then Bioware has a bright future.

See, I disagree with you that DA2 is a "blunder", and how many games you have played in the last ten years where you think DA2 is "the worst"? I really, really enjoyed playing DA2. I can't emphasize that enough. However, I also can't emphasize enough how absolutely terrible the dungeon recycling is.

I would be perfectly content if DA3 played the exact same way, but for god's sakes man... Dungeon variety...

[Anathemic]

Eurhetemec wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

I think Mass Effect 2 is bad, I played it, I beat it, I didn't have the motivation to go through a second playthrough, it was boring to me.

I'm not sure that you get what I'm explaining, so let me be clear. You think the best-reviewed game that BioWare have ever made, which is also one of their best-selling games, is bad.

You're allowed to think that, but what it proves is that you have very unusual opinions. Very few people think like you, for better or worse. Maybe you're smart and the rest of the world is "dumbasses". If so, to bad for you, because essentially game-buying is democratic, and the game that sells more is more successful.

My point is that many of the people claiming that DA2 is "bad" are also claiming ME2 is "bad". This means they're logically disallowed from using Metacritic scores to comment, and that their opinions of "good" and "bad" in games are so extremely minority that they probably have no bearing on whether a game is really good or bad.

Because democracy is the best form of government in a world such as ours amirite?

Politics aside, I believe ME2 is bad, others believe ME2 is bad. We provide reason why ME2 is bad (Streamlining, story, etc.), thus ME2 is bad to us. Sure other people may enjoy it, just like people enjoy World of Warcraft and some don't. People declare World of Warcraft bad, but by your logic ,it isn't. By your logic Call of Duty: Black Ops is the best game ever, and I'm pretty sure the majority of the gaming communtiy would declare it isn't.

Sales mean success, doesn't mean quality though.

[QualityGamer]

It's only so bad because it was a enormous step back. Other than that, it's a nice game.

Modifié par QualityGamer, 15 mars 2011 - 11:33 .

[Death Nova]

Lexagg wrote...

NWN campaign was bad, but it had enormous potential for user-generated content, and that's what made it great.
DA2 isn't bad either. I just can't hate it. I think it's just unfinished.

Those are my thoughts on it. In its current state it seems to be leaving room for aditions. That's what I have to think anyway. Having played origins like a religion, and to know they had allot of backstory and information to build up on; I have to rationalize that more is coming; that's the only thing that makes sense.

They are goign to capitalize on DAs expanability and flesh out the story that way, through dlc. Otherwise, they made miraculaous leaps on the visual experience, for a game that leaves a want for more content. I haven't actually finished it yet myself; but my cousin has been complaining for days...

Please BioWare; make my cousin stop messenging me

[JosephCurwen]

misoretu9 wrote...

Heh, that must be confusing for developer. ME2 got dumbed down - reviewers are extatic and perceive it as one of the best "RPG's" in history. DA2 got dumbed down - it's suddenly worst Bioware game.

Personally I don't like changes in both games, but it's funny when someone who thinks that ME2 was great complains about DA2.

I think its mostly a question of which genre each franchise was perceived as coming from. I was one of the people who thought of the first Mass Effect game as a shooter first and an RPG second, so cutting back on some of the RPG elements never struck me as a particularly jarring thing to do.

Dragon Age: Origins on the other hand is clearly an RPG through and through, so when you start removing RPG elements for the sequel there really isn't much left to fall back on.

[DinoCrisisFan]

uzivatel wrote...

Nope, NWN is the first.
Followed by that Sonic game, probably ... cant really comment about that one.

What? Sonic Chronicles is the best BioWare game ever.

[MCPOWill]

I don't DA2 is Bioware's first bad game. Bioware doesn't make bad games, they make widely accepted games that are great to amazing to phenomenal. Where DA II fits in is up to you and for that reason I think that DA II is Bioware's most controversial game ever made which allows its to stay in amazing if only for others reasons then one would normally think.

Modifié par MCPOWill, 15 mars 2011 - 11:40 .

[Eurhetemec]

misoretu9 wrote...

Eurhetemec wrote...

Your criteria are clearly very special and unique, and totally irrelevant to whether a game is successful or popular.

Your either, since although ME2 had great reviews, its sales are in fact poor - similar to ME1 and DAO, much worse than for example any Fable or even Fallout: New Vegas - really bugged game with outdated graphic (but unlike ME2, it really can be called cRPG).

This is a misunderstanding on your part. ME2 has very good sales for an RPG released on the PC & Xbox 360. What it doesn't have is the sales figures of a game released on PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 simultaneously. Also, your definition of "poor" is insane, given that it was one of the best-selling Bioware products of all time.

DA:O sold almost as many copies as FO:NV (and more than either ME - because it was on all three platforms), by the way, so I'm not sure why you think it didn't. The figures are extremely close. FO:NV's sales are an interesting anomaly, though - it sold way way better than FO3, which was better reviewed, less buggy, and so on. I suspect it was the right game at the right time.

[UltimoCrofto]

"Bioware's first truly "bad" game?"

Nah, Mass Effect 1 is pretty abysmal. Actually similar to DA2 in a lot of ways - repetitive copy and paste environments, for one, and Jade Empire can be seen as bad depending on what side of the fence you're on (I actually like it, but admit the combat and RPG elements are awful).

Someone mentioned Blizzard earlier, which is a shame. Blizzard shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as BioWare, since they're so far ahead it's not even funny.

[Nivik23]

Kinda surprised so many people have such a low opinion of NWN. Sure The OC wasn't all that great in the first title (although I thought it was very good in HotU) but the real strength of NWN was in it's MP. I played a persistent world for about 7 years (Gemstone) and absolutely loved it. Many of my greatest gaming memories are due to NWN and it's one of my favorite games of all time.

[McAllyster]

DA2 is is so much better than DAO. Not a Mass Effect but quite enjoyable.

[Sporothrix]

JosephCurwen wrote...

I think its mostly a question of which genre each franchise was perceived as coming from. I was one of the people who thought of the first Mass Effect game as a shooter first and an RPG second, so cutting back on some of the RPG elements never struck me as a particularly jarring thing to do.

Dragon Age: Origins on the other hand is clearly an RPG through and through, so when you start removing RPG elements for the sequel there really isn't much left to fall back on.

There's still HnS element, which is actually analogous to shooter element in ME.

[Sithlord715]

toggled wrote...

DA2 is Bioware's only bad game. In fact, DA2 is the worst game I've played in 10 years. That's no hyperbole, that's honesty.

The question is whether Bioware will be able to recover from this blunder? The answer depends on whether the people that made the company great are still around or not. If they are, and if they're able to retake control of the company, then Bioware has a bright future.

Oh they're still there. They're just all working on ME3 and SW:The Old Republic at the moment