209 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

So Anders, one way or another, gets what he wanted: the Circles are in Rebellion.

Now, do they have a real chance of winning the war? That's the question. Because if they lose, no one got their freedom, and Anders desire of victory or death for all Magi may well still be fulfilled to his satisfaction.

Here's a thread to discuss this question that will probably come up a lot in the next few years.

[errant_knight]

I'm guessing that both Hawke and the Warden will have a part to play in what happens next, although not necessarily as the player characters and perhaps not in the same game. Leliana pointed out that their disappearances could be no coincidence. I don't think there's a win possible. It would be a brutal war of attrition. I suspect that each country will handle it different ways. It seems like Alistair would like to kick out the templars or at least limit them, so that may happen in Ferelden. It also sounds like there might be a new war with Orlais to contend with, and he'd need mages.

Kirkwall probably won't be a good place to be a mage for a very long time, if ever.

Modifié par errant_knight, 15 mars 2011 - 10:50 .

[TheCreeper]

Yes, the Templars have gone rogue which means that mages only really have to win against them as opposed to an exalted march situation where they would be fighting pretty much every armed force in Thedas.

[Lithuasil]

He certainly succeeded in making the mages struggles more accessible to the mundane, and furthering compassion, showing everyone that mages, even if left their freedom, can be nice, restraint, level headed... ok, ok, I'll stop now.

[Zalocx]

Well let me put it this way:

A) the mages lose the war, every kid who shows signs to being a mage is killed or made tranquil from them on or something= lots of innocents die

Mages win, but to do so they obviously have to resort to forbidden magic and pacts with fade spirits for the extra edge considering their smaller numbers. When the dust clears most of the ones left standing are demon possessed blood mages used to committing atrocities for power = lots of innocents die

Take your pick

[Gabey5]

the templars are also rebelling so they have a shot

[Icy Magebane]

I really doubt it. Common people aren't going to care about the freedom of mages, just like they don't care about the lives of elves. They worship Andraste and believe in what the Chantry teaches, so the Templar forces would have a huge numbers advantage. Then again, wouldn't it be in Tevinter's interest to aid the Circles? Hm... You know what? I'm not even sure. The only thing I can reasonably speculate on is the invasion from the Qunari to mop the floor with whoever survives.

[etonesmith1]

the kingdoms of Thedas establish a "Magical Power Regulatory Commishion"

[Lithuasil]

I think the much more interesting question, rather then who's going to win, is - what side will you stand on?

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Then again, wouldn't it be in Tevinter's interest to aid the Circles?

Like I said in my thread smart money says that the majority of the circle mages will go straight for Tevinter after they break free of the Circle because that's the only Country that would be on their side.

[Icy Magebane]

If the Chantry is smart, they'll call the whole thing off. I'm sure they don't want Tevinter becoming even more powerful... although in all honesty, that's where I'd sent Hawke if given the opportunity. I would love to be a Magister Lord.

[Zalocx]

Lithuasil wrote...

I think the much more interesting question, rather then who's going to win, is - what side will you stand on?

IN THIS CORNER: The religious fanatics who magically lobotomise people!

AND IN THIS CORNER:  The demon magnets that will probably turn to mind control fueled by human sacrifice to survive

<_< When's the next ship to Par Vollen?

[Vilegrim]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: It's not just the mages rebelling, or shouldn't be, theres alot of people who either don't like the chantry, don't like the templars or just plain don't like the maker. Add in the fact that it's circle vs templar rather than circle vs entire chantry and you have a pretty fair fight, with Tevinter offering sanctuary to mages (if they have any sense) and attacking tevinter being damned suicidal.

They have their own chantry and can call there own exalted march, and even if you win, you now have the Qunari looking at the shattered remnants of your armies from uncomfortably short range.

Theres a reason some of the Seekers want to stop this, if they don't either a) The Tevinter Imperium or the Qunari, take advantage of the massivly weakened state you have left your selves in, and that ignore c) the Dark Spawn, either under The Architect or someone new, whats to say they wont march?

[errant_knight]

Lithuasil wrote...

I think the much more interesting question, rather then who's going to win, is - what side will you stand on?

It depends. If mages are like they were in DA:O, then I'd support them. If they're all blood mages and abominations as in DA2, not so much. The only reason I didn't support the templars in DA2 was because (a). Meredith was batsh*t crazy and (2). She wanted to ignore the guilty party and kill the circle instead. I'll just do my best for who I always do my best for: Ferelden.

[Lithuasil]

Zalocx wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

I think the much more interesting question, rather then who's going to win, is - what side will you stand on?

IN THIS CORNER: The religious fanatics who magically lobotomise people!

AND IN THIS CORNER:  The demon magnets that will probably turn to mind control fueled by human sacrifice to survive

<_< When's the next ship to Par Vollen?

Leave the horn heads out of this, we want to have some fun for ourselfs

[Kemmer]

Zalocx wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

I think the much more interesting question, rather then who's going to win, is - what side will you stand on?

IN THIS CORNER: The religious fanatics who magically lobotomise people!

AND IN THIS CORNER:  The demon magnets that will probably turn to mind control fueled by human sacrifice to survive

<_< When's the next ship to Par Vollen?

With choices like that, I think I'd submit to the Qun, too.  Man, what a mess!  I'm simultaneously dreading and looking forward to DA3.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I personally think that the mage rebellion is just a chapter in the grand change that's supposed to be coming (hinted at by Morrigan and Sandal. Flemeth is implicated. Possibly reborn Urthemiel).

As far as their chances go, I think this is the first time that all the Circles rebel at the same time. So I think that the Templars will be trying to bite more than they can chew. And I think the same can be said about the mages, unless they recieve support from the Tevinter Imperium, which itself might be too busy with the Qunari who are amassing their navy and are planning something (according to Fenris). That said, the Andrastrian states and non-Templar armies might get involved in this and I can see it go both ways. If the mage rebellion causes too much chaos, I see those states going against them. But if the mages provide an opportunity, I can see states helping them.

But I see different layers to the conflict. Mage rebellion is one, but also shift in the balance of power, from Orlais (with the chantry weakening) to Nevarra. And we hear Orlais escalating tensions with Ferelden. Plus Qunari military buildup and possible invasion (the devastating mage rebellion would provide a perfect opportunity and a legitimate symbolic reason for them to invade. They can easily assume the high ground and say "told you so").

So, I think the rebellion is going to be part of a larger conflict. Its success will depend a lot, imo, on the other factors and layers at play.

[Everwarden]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

So Anders, one way or another, gets what he wanted: the Circles are in Rebellion.

Now, do they have a real chance of winning the war? That's the question. Because if they lose, no one got their freedom, and Anders desire of victory or death for all Magi may well still be fulfilled to his satisfaction.

Here's a thread to discuss this question that will probably come up a lot in the next few years.

Well, the hard part is over. The mages were at a disadvantage because they were in a confined space with anti-mage specialists watching them. Now they are in the open, where they can use their magic to full effect. I don't think numbers are going to be nearly as useful now that the mages aren't in a cage. 

Further, it's a no-win scenario for the Chantry, but the mages stand to gain everything. If the templars succeed and wipe the mages out, they will certainly suffer severe casualties to do so. What happens then? Thedas becomes extremely vulnerable to a blight, and helpless if the Qunari attack. Remember that it was the mages that turned the Qunari around and gave them a boot to the ass, without mages the Qunari have no remaining disadvantage. Superior technology, discipline, and strength. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Counter point, Everwarden: the Mages can loose just as much. Their lives, for one. Being put back under even harder yokes, for another. Simply because the Chantry would lose more in the face of another Blight, or the Qunari, doesn't mean that greater cost isn't one the Chantry wouldn't be willing to pay. More mages, who can be properly loyal, can be born and found. The technology gap between the Qunari and Andrastian nations has lessened with time, with the adaptation of steel.

Simply making the Chantry lose isn't a victory for the Mages. Nor does it even mean a temporary mage victory is a viable state of any sort in any given location. Where will the mages get Lyrium from? What will their economy matter? How will their means of protecting themselves affect the surrounding communities and peoples?

Everyone can lose without anyone coming out better. Even if each mage kills a hundred non-magicals, if there are two hundred non-magicals per mage then all that means is that the end of the war, a lot of mages and non-magicals died, and someone else gets to pick up the pieces.

[Zenstrive]

Romance of The Three Kingdoms or Warring States Period. Pick your poisons.

If left unchecked and left in Anarchy, the mages will surely all be turned into Abominations, but wholesale slaughters or confinement is not good either, so the Chantry will need first to reduce the authority of the Templars and implement some form of religious self-controls on the mages. Every mages who dabbled in blood magic shouldn't be killed but confined under the templars watch.

Heck, the chantry may form a unit of templars and mage who specialized in invading a blood mage's dream and destroy the link to the demon thus freed them. A kind of Grey Warden, but for fighting in the fade. Let's call them Fade Striders.

Really, all of this Chantry, Templars, and Mages problem have its root on Andraste's thwarting the Tevinter Imperium Magocracy and starting this whole Maker worshipping cult. The people's paranoia is eased with the corraling of the mages and the founding of their jailers, the templars.

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I personally think that the mage rebellion is just a chapter in the grand change that's supposed to be coming (hinted at by Morrigan and Sandal. Flemeth is implicated. Possibly reborn Urthemiel).

As far as their chances go, I think this is the first time that all the Circles rebel at the same time. So I think that the Templars will be trying to bite more than they can chew. And I think the same can be said about the mages, unless they recieve support from the Tevinter Imperium, which itself might be too busy with the Qunari who are amassing their navy and are planning something (according to Fenris). That said, the Andrastrian states and non-Templar armies might get involved in this and I can see it go both ways. If the mage rebellion causes too much chaos, I see those states going against them. But if the mages provide an opportunity, I can see states helping them.

But I see different layers to the conflict. Mage rebellion is one, but also shift in the balance of power, from Orlais (with the chantry weakening) to Nevarra. And we hear Orlais escalating tensions with Ferelden. Plus Qunari military buildup and possible invasion (the devastating mage rebellion would provide a perfect opportunity and a legitimate symbolic reason for them to invade. They can easily assume the high ground and say "told you so").

So, I think the rebellion is going to be part of a larger conflict. Its success will depend a lot, imo, on the other factors and layers at play.

I think the other thing to keep in mind is that the Templars have seemingly rebelled from the Chantry as well. And while the Circles seem to have dissolved, I doubt that the mages are all unified under one common cause. It would seem if anything that with the dissolution of all the Circles across Thedas, the mages are probably weaker overall, as they're likely still split up into their various factions, maybe with some more radical ones now like the Resolutionists(?), like Leliana mentions in DA2 with Sebastian's quest.

And the Templars might be just as fractured as well, with some more hardcore elements that want to slaughter all mages and more moderate ones allying with the mages like Thrask tried to do.

And like you said, add in the seeming trouble between Orlais and Ferelden plus the usual Qunari threat and Tevinter, plus who knows what is going on with the Wardens and the darkspawn (with Awakening's epilogue slide hinting at rumors of another Blight in the Anderfels) and it seems the stage is set for World War Thedas.

And like Sandal hints at, I'd guess that when the world is busy tearing itself apart, what better time for some other power/person/thing to swoop in when no one expects?

[Augustei]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

So Anders, one way or another, gets what he wanted: the Circles are in Rebellion.

Now, do they have a real chance of winning the war? That's the question. Because if they lose, no one got their freedom, and Anders desire of victory or death for all Magi may well still be fulfilled to his satisfaction.

Here's a thread to discuss this question that will probably come up a lot in the next few years.

Heres what will happen. The Circles and Templars will war, The Qunari will invade and take advantage of the chaos,.. This is very likely since the Llomeyrn accord has already been broken.. No Exalted March can be declaired since the Chantry is falling apart.. No Mages to push back the Qunari because they are to busy fighting for freedom. The Qunari will take over. And the mages will have less freedom then they did originally. Anders will forever be remembered as the ****head who reduced the mages freedom even more than they already had. The end

Dont you just love happy endings? lol

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 16 mars 2011 - 12:58 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Brock
I don't think the Templars rebelled perse against the Chantry. More like, the Chantry lost control of them, as they began to pull of Meredithes everywhere to bring the mages down. At least that's the impression I got, correct me if I am wrong. Which makes me wonder. If the Chantry controls lyrium trade....how will the Templars get it? Wasn't that supposed to be *the* thing keeping the Templars in line? So I guess you could be right, that the Templars would also turn against the Chantry, sooner or later.

And we also have Nate in DA2 sayign that Wardens have new allies (possibly the Architect), and that it's too complicated to explain. Something big is definitely brewing.

And here's to Urthemiel, our baby, to be that person! Hopefully.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 16 mars 2011 - 01:02 .

[Augustei]

Icy Magebane wrote...

I really doubt it. Common people aren't going to care about the freedom of mages, just like they don't care about the lives of elves. They worship Andraste and believe in what the Chantry teaches, so the Templar forces would have a huge numbers advantage. Then again, wouldn't it be in Tevinter's interest to aid the Circles? Hm... You know what? I'm not even sure. The only thing I can reasonably speculate on is the invasion from the Qunari to mop the floor with whoever survives.

It would be in tevinters intrests to expand the power of their empire.. They dont give a damn about the mages outside their empire.. And if mages flocked to their empire, that would annoy them even more. Since that means competition in politics.. and they wont like that.. So I doubt the circles would get tevinter support

[Fallout_IX]

Honestly after the last scene i kind of wished i didnt help the mages.

First enchanter turns into a demon
Theres demons all over the place (thanks mages, im helping you and your spawning demons i now have to kill everywhere)
The mages that are trying to overthrow the knight commander attack you on sight.
In the end the only good reason i could think of for saving the mages is to save your sister, lol.

I dont know how the mages are going to win a war with the templars when they turn into abominations whenever a templar comes along.