454 réponses à ce sujet

[Ardinal]

RosaAquafire wrote...

I'm not sure the "escapism" argument applies to strongly to these games, myself. They're more art than entertainment in a lot of ways.

I agree with what some people are saying in that I wish the sexualities of the LIs were less subjective. Anders, mostly. It sits very wrong with me that he never tells Lady Hawke about his affair with Karl. Either he's omitting it because it makes people uncomfortable, which is a problem, or it didn't happen with a Lady Hawke, which is a BIG problem. Anders being in love with Karl changes his story a LOT, it completely flips his motivations upside down, and changing that so that women who have an issue with a bisexual man don't have to be uncomfortable is ... awkward. And sort of unfortunate.

Especially considering Isabela is so open about being with women.

I don't care so much about Fenris and Merrill, execpt that Merrill expresses attraction to males (qunari, etc.) and Fenris expresses attraction to females (Isabela!), while neither does so for the same gender. Merrill even seems shocked at Isabela's bisexuality. But it's reasonable to say they both prefer the opposite gender, and are more than willing to bend for someone compelling of the same. Still, I prefer the way this was handled with Zevran and Leliana.

I love the move towards more homosexual options, I just wish it had been more part of the characters and less part of a gameplay mechanic. Zevran and Leliana felt more real, like their sexualities were a part of them. The four DA2 LIs feel more like their sexualities are separate from them, a part of the game.

Though I guess I see why BW went through route, seeing how even this was too risky for the OP :|

If this were a facebook status I would be hitting the Like button with crazed abandon.

Modifié par Ardinal, 16 mars 2011 - 06:11 .

[Nonoru]

[Ardinal]

Balthamoss wrote...

OP is not making any sense, they're not really bi: if your Hawke is male, then Isabela and Merril are straight, and Anders and Fenris are gay; if your Hawke is female then Isabela and Merril are gay, and Anders and Fenris are straight. Or do you see the LIs having a relationship with anyone else beside Hawke ?
I think it's great that Bioware is doing it this way, it gives players more choices (please keep it that way for the sequel). Don't want ? Then don't choose, very simple.
Having all Lis bi is also the best solution IMO, because it avoids all the complaints from Origins, where people complained to no end about that character being a same sex option and the other not. This way, everyone can romance the LI he/she wants.

Actually Isabela is the only character who's sexuality is truly defined. She is 'bisexual' not "I'm only straight if Hawke is a guy... or "I'm only gay if Hawke is a woman." She likes women and men regardless of what Hawke's gender happens to be. 

[DrFumb1ezX]

Just 'cause I found this line hilarious when I heard it, and I think it really fits here:

"Opinions are like testicles. You kick them hard enough, it doesn't matter how many you've got".

-Thanks Varric, for shining light on how the world really works.

[MaRKyzas21]

I think that game developers had to warn players about all those bi romances before buying the game. I preordered this game because I love DAO and I respect the writers for a great story. Alistair was my favorite companion and romance option for my female Warden. To be honest, I expected something similar from Dragon Age II too. However, I am very disappointed with all these developments associated with changes in the range of romance. I wanted a normal man for my female Hawke romance, but instead I got two types of uncertain orientation. I'd be satisfied with Sebastian, but he has not been created by the true romance.
I want to know for what I pay my money in the future.

[Silentmode]

People clamor for everyone to be bi before the game comes out and now they change their minds. This must be one of those lose-lose situations. I personally think homosexuality is disgusting but I won't demand to stop other people from enjoying it when I have the ability to just avoid it.

[Sjofn]

MaRKyzas21 wrote...

I think that game developers had to warn players about all those bi romances before buying the game. I preordered this game because I love DAO and I respect the writers for a great story. Alistair was my favorite companion and romance option for my female Warden. To be honest, I expected something similar from Dragon Age II too. However, I am very disappointed with all these developments associated with changes in the range of romance. I wanted a normal man for my female Hawke romance, but instead I got two types of uncertain orientation. I'd be satisfied with Sebastian, but he has not been created by the true romance.
I want to know for what I pay my money in the future.

Are you seriously saying that because you know somewhere out there, there are people playing dude Hawkes who are gettin' with Anders and Fenris, that they aren't "normal" (nice loaded term) and you can't possibly romance them?

You are broken. Straight up.

Modifié par Sjofn, 16 mars 2011 - 07:29 .

[Carfax]

Silentmode wrote...

People clamor for everyone to be bi before the game comes out and now they change their minds. This must be one of those lose-lose situations. I personally think homosexuality is disgusting but I won't demand to stop other people from enjoying it when I have the ability to just avoid it.

Some people clamored for it, not all..  The homosexual threads were constantly being perpetuated by a dozen or so zealots, so it wasn't as though the entire forum supported making all characters bi..

This is just a case of the vociferous minority getting their way over the silent majority..

[hakwea]

Kazanth wrote...

Is it that hard to pretend they're actually straight? Not trying to sound rude but I had no problem pretending whoever I was romancing was 100% homosexual because nothing in the game contradicted that if you ignore metagaming knowledge..

It can be when most companion conversations have pickup lines or romance options to them. It gives relationships very little story aspect and character if everyone is willing to sleep with everyone else. Even when you haven't flirted with a companion before you still get those options in certain conversations. If bioware is going to water them down so much they need to at least give a clear cut not interested option.

Most of the "romance" options aren't inherently romance when described on the conversation wheel as well. They are just good answers. Not everything has to cater to everyone. You can have clear cut choices and not discriminate towards anyone. There are idiots that will take any excuse with everything.

Not to mention how broken the whole friendship/rivarly and romance options are. Yes I know that if you are courting two you will eventually have to make a choice. But the systems just seem to keep all the companions in the dark about everything else, when it shouldn't matter what companions you bring with you for alignment changes and romances choices. If I choose to flirt with Fenris for example aveline should react the very next time I see them. Instead its a whole "make out with whoever you like because no one is their own character until you reach X point in biowares story". 

If a rpg truly wants to create a world it doesn't accomplish that by making everyone be so unrealistic.

[AtreiyaN7]

As long as they're with your hetero character, they're straight. Seriously, who cares if they are all bi? From a character standpoint, I certainly don't find it all that believable because I think the odds are low that someone would actually end up with four people who are all bi. From the standpoint of fairness and equality however, I'm like, great, everyone gets to be with whomever they like the most.

[LelianaNeverLovedMe]

Its a game. A game that involves choices. So, since the "silent majority" can choose to have a heterosexual relationship I'm not seeing the big deal here. An individual can tailor the game, via choices made in game, to suit their preferences. Why are people worried about how I choose to interact with a character on my playthrough as it has no impact on theirs? How is, let's say, my ability to romance Merill hurting someone else? I don't think it is. It'd be one thing if people were being penalized unfairly and as established earlier but they are not (Anders doesn't take rejection well from a male or female Hawke). And so what that it may be unrealistic as far as so many party members being bisexual? Its a game where you're fighting dragons and using magic, reality kind of got thrown out the window there. I have never gotten the impression Thedas is supposed to be an accurate reflection of certain societies. Being gay or bi is an accepted norm in the world of DA it would seem, so its not unrealistic to have numerous bisexual individuals within the context of the game.

As others have noted, if people can't get past the fact other players may choose differently as far as LIs, don't play the game or just ignore the aspects of the game you don't like. You do this everyday in real life, ignoring things you don't like,correct? Lots of different people play video games, its selfish to presume all gamers think and act the same way. I think its great Bioware acknowedges player differences and gives the player the power of choice instead of stuffing one way of doing things down a players throat.

Modifié par darthtater10, 16 mars 2011 - 08:12 .

[hakwea]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

As long as they're with your hetero character, they're straight. Seriously, who cares if they are all bi? From a character standpoint, I certainly don't find it all that believable because I think the odds are low that someone would actually end up with four people who are all bi. From the standpoint of fairness and equality however, I'm like, great, everyone gets to be with whomever they like the most.

Fairness and equality have no place in a story if it detracts from the story. Would Roots be the same if all the racism was edited out so as to not offend people? Would Star Wars be the same if han solo and luke skywalker had a romance?  Would any story, fiction or non-fiction, be the same if any sexuality changed based on who they were around at the moment? Nope.

Having characters that are only gay, or only straight is not discrimination. It isn't being unfair, it isn't making some people not be equal. If anyone gets offend because they can't have everything the way they want it then they are deluded enough that a game shouldn't be designed with them in mind.

Does it ruin the game that everyone is bi? Not really. But it ruins the story of the characters when their "idle" conversations and responses don't match up with a side of the story you get to experince. The whole point of RPGs and having choices in the game is so it makes the story unfold around you and immerses you better.

[Wildfire172]

IMO the characters personality should define their sexuality, the only one I've seen this with in DA2 is Isabella (loose, like Jack in ME2) , in ME2 people b**ched about there only being straight or lesbian romances, now everyone is b**ching about everyone being bi. Just make the characters set sexually to fit their personality but include a character or two who will keep the pro gay/lesbian crowd at bay and make sure it actually fits with that character. Also let it be hinted instead of blatantly obvious (Anders with Male Hawke).

Modifié par Wildfire172, 16 mars 2011 - 08:29 .

[sylvan31]

And to think all this was because everyone wanted to sex up morrigan

[CyberNinjaSensei]

This is the first, and probably last, time I will partake in a conversation with this subject matter, including what they choose to do with Mass Effect 3.

I believe, bottom line, is there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many people, on BOTH sides of this discussion, that are, quite frankly, too sensitive. Bioware, and society in general, are in a lose-lose situation. One side will typically be unhappy with the slightest of acknowledgement to the opposite.

I am a straight male who thinks that as long as your life style in no way endangers another's inalienable rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, then have at it. I have gay friends (male and female) and straight friends. Gay people should have rights to marry, etc.

Now, with all of that being said, when any group of people wants equality, often it turns into favoritism, which detracts from others. There's hardly ever a case of true (I want to say NO case, but this way I'm not being too definitive) balance and equality. I believe the OP's original intent, the lack of tact not withstanding, was to say that other than Sebastian, there's no INHERENTLY hetero option, which gives way to their "disgust" of the current options (poor wording, brah). Well, we all know that Sebastian is along that line, and though I haven't attempted it yet, according to the strategy guide, it's possible to romance Varric. The strat guide also points out that Sebastian is the ONLY totally straight LI and you can NEVER flirt with another teammate within the game in order to achieve romance.

I really don't care what the sexual preference X teammate holds (not a pun). But, for the sake of FAIRNESS and EQUALITY, the OP has a point in that there is not a "true" balance. We all have a choice in how we want to experience this game and its romance options. For instance, my first Hawke was a female rogue who romanced Isabela. My current male Hawke mage, it'll be Isabela, possibly Merril. Same with my  male Hawke warrior. But, it has nothing to do with traditional ideals or any of that other rubbish. Frankly put, I believe Fenris is a whiny baby (no matter how understandable), Sebastian is a do-gooder, and Anders is a right pain in the arse (could possibly be different if Ser Pounce-a-lot was still in his life). My first playthrough, I had my Lady Hawke go triple with Isabela and Zevrhan, cause that's how she rolls. Rogue's tend to hit from both sides of the plate within the DA universe, which is understandable, owing to the type of work they do. Isabela and Merril are just the more enjoyable characters to me. In RL, I prefer strong women because I value self-esteem and intelligence. Aveline would be my main choice, but that cannot happen so I go down the list. But, I never let my own sexual preference keep me from experiencing multiple aspects of the game, which, SEEMINGLY, is the case with gamers on BOTH sides of this discussion, with or without a variety.

Basically, it is my firm belief that people just need to chill out and stop being so sensitive and defensive. When those two emotions are present, there will never be ANY understanding on EITHER side. And we will continue to see the same stubborn opinions from the same stubborn people on BOTH sides.

[Wildfire172]

sylvan31 wrote...

And to think all this was because everyone wanted to sex up morrigan

Not quite I've seen plenty for Garrus in ME2 as well, personally I'm hetero but I can understand a few bi/gay people in the party, as long as it's not overarching their personality or what defines them.

[Parrk]

This thread has taught me that one of those six things is complaining.

[Maria Caliban]

Silentmode wrote...

People clamor for everyone to be bi before the game comes out and now they change their minds.

Can you provide me with the name of one poster who wanted the LI's to be bisexual prior to the game releasing and have now changed their minds?

[metalcraze33]

I would like to say I am morally offended by the lack of dwarven romances this isv clearly infringing on my rights to have sexy dwarf loving. also all dwarves should be bi.

[Jimmy Fury]

hakwea wrote...
Fairness and equality have no place in a story if it detracts from the story. Would Roots be the same if all the racism was edited out so as to not offend people? Would Star Wars be the same if han solo and luke skywalker had a romance?  Would any story, fiction or non-fiction, be the same if any sexuality changed based on who they were around at the moment? Nope.

Your analogy doens't work.
For starters nobody edited Dragon Age. Peroid. So trying to compare what the creators did in a sequel to some third party editing Roots is just illogical.
More importantly, you're comparing interactive and non-interactive media. You can't argue that players shouldn't have input into games based on the fact that movies would be different if they had player input.
That's like saying airplanes can't fly because wombats aren't aerodynamic.



@Metalcraze, actually... there's a dwarf that works at the Rose

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 16 mars 2011 - 09:19 .

[BubbleDncr]

I have to say, I'm all for gay/bi romances in this game, but it did bother me a lot to find out that my romance, Anders, is gay in playthroughs with a male Hawke. It was different in Origins when Zevran and Leliana were bi, and always were. That's just who they were as characters. Anders being straight in my game but gay in other games just makes it seem like he doesn't have a defined character.

[metalcraze33]

Yeah, but then I would have to go to Anders clinic and you know he would be all "I told you so"

[Dangerfoot]

They made all the characters both gay and straight because it lets players have more choices for their character without Bioware having to produce more content. It has nothing to do with favoritism and them liking bisexual people more than straight people.

[Silentmode]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Silentmode wrote...

People clamor for everyone to be bi before the game comes out and now they change their minds.

Can you provide me with the name of one poster who wanted the LI's to be bisexual prior to the game releasing and have now changed their minds?

I'm sorry, wrong choice of words. A lot of people wanted all the LI's to be bi and they are. I just don't understand why someone would be upset about content they don't have to pursue.

[Jimmy Fury]

BubbleDncr wrote...
Anders being straight in my game but gay in other games just makes it seem like he doesn't have a defined character.

Funny.... you defined him just fine.