454 réponses à ce sujet

[Fidget6]

wyvvern wrote...

Hmm . . . Anders says Karl was his first love. He states this explicitly. Then, in a banter with Isabella, he talks about meeting her at the pearl, where she was into some girl with griffon tattoos. At that meeting they apparently had sex together because Isabella says "you're the runaway mage that could do that electricity thingy," to which Hawke replies "just stop talking."

Isabella also says "I didn't know you had such a cute cousin," when meeting Charade if she's in party.

So I'm not seeing how it's a great leap or inference to deduce both Anders and Isabella at least are cannonically bi-sexual.

(For the record - I'm fine with having all LI be available to all players. More choice is always better in my book.)

It's always seemed like Anders and Isabela's sexuality are part of their character, while Merril and Fenris are more "Hawke"sexual.  

[Elite Midget]

So everytone is bi?

Well, it looks like Bioware does listen to its fans! Thank gawd that no fan is going to miss out on such content due to their sexual orientation!

PS: I'm straight and I support everyone being Bi and haveing their backgrounds being retcon'd for different saves. Such as Anders is gay if you're gay but is straight if you're a woman.

[Taleroth]

I believe future Bioware games should randomly assign sexual orientations at character creation, then never reveal them until at least 10 hours in.

[Oneiropolos]

::dies laughing at Taleroth's suggestion::
Oh, god, that'd be so mean. And so funny. And so -mean-. I'd be like "But, but... what do you mean he's only gay?! I wanted to date him?! Crap. New playthrough!"

[Elite Midget]

That would cause far too much headaches than just making each LI have the possibility being Gay or Straight depending on the player and if they choose to pursue them despite what their gender might be.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I found it pretty dissapointing that everyone will lay with everyone as long as second everyone is Hawke. I am straight guy with classic beliefs about marriage, but that's not the point, actually. It just seemed that every romancible companion did't have *any* beliefs about what is love. If one companion is gay and would hit on my mHawke I would feel a natural disgust, but if that character stays for his beliefs and shares with me why and who he wants to be his second part, I would respect him for that. If a female companion only likes girls for some reason, and that reason explained, I again would't mind. If there is an asari-like character, or just someone who is bi, and he explains why that is - again (Zevran was annoying and I felt dirty just talking to him, but his character was explained)... ..but having them ALL to change their sexual orientation with a push of a button by a player is just a radical fanservise act. It's not good writing, either. Those are devs characters, and they should think about what's and why's. Especially when it comes to a really serious question like "what is love?".

[David Gaider]

wyvvern wrote...
So I'm not seeing how it's a great leap or inference to deduce both Anders and Isabella at least are cannonically bi-sexual.

I'm not saying they could be anything-- there are a few instances (Anders and Isabela, primarily) when their past might come up. I'll point out that, with Anders, he doesn't say "I am attracted only to men" or "I am attracted to both men and women". You could decide one way or the other... perhaps if someone says a member of the opposite sex or same sex is attractive, that's enough for you? But they simply don't say where they preference lies. My point is that their actions don't change, yet some people are deciding that their inference is enough to suggest the characters alter their preferences at the player's whim.

Even if they did, I'm not sure that would be a crime. Regardless, it's not the case.

Modifié par David Gaider, 17 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[Ninja Mage]

So was that Qunari that Saemus was with er...attracted to men Gaider??

[Pileyourbodies]

Ninja Mage wrote...

So was that Qunari that Saemus was with er...attracted to men Gaider??

Now people are grasping at straws....Saemus was a fella unhappy with his lot in life and so he sought out something different by following the Qun its never implied they did anything sexual at least not that I saw.

[sylvanaerie]

Aside from one nasty comment by that winter ****. I took a lot of pleasure out of killing her. I guess my mage was one murderous apostate they all either ignored or tolerated.

[Wildfire172]

Pileyourbodies wrote...

Ninja Mage wrote...

So was that Qunari that Saemus was with er...attracted to men Gaider??

Now people are grasping at straws....Saemus was a fella unhappy with his lot in life and so he sought out something different by following the Qun its never implied they did anything sexual at least not that I saw.

Unless you count the Winters comment but not sure that really has much say, that person was just greedy with a blood lust.

[Blacklash93]

Qunari don't even do sex for pleasure. It's not even attractive to them and they only do it when "assinged".

[Maria Caliban]

David Gaider wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
You know? Let's end it right here because I'm not going to be lumped in with 'some people' or attempt to defend a viewpoint I've never had.

Fair enough. It seemed like you were saying that, but I was responding not only to you but to those who'd espoused this view.

I understand how you could read my post that way.

I should try to be clearer as to whether I'm criticizing the characters as I see them or disagreeing with another person's interpretation of them.

Indeed. I suppose one could probably infer that at least a couple of the characters are bisexual because of some things they say-- but it is indeed an inference only, and is intended as such. If someone feels the need to slap a label on a character, or feel differently about them based on what they might be, that's up to them.

Yeah, I'd rather Merrill be straight than have her sexuality be up to the player. At the same time, I value the ability to romance her as Lady Hawke more than my character concerns.

I won't claim it's rational but the idea bothers me. Sexuality isn't just a label (to me). It's an important part of who someone is (though I know many who feel differently).

In this particular case, we're evidently damned if we do as well as damned if we don't. I'd rather be damned if we do.

I'm sorry.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 mars 2011 - 05:18 .

[Maria Caliban]

Taleroth wrote...

I believe future Bioware games should randomly assign sexual orientations at character creation, then never reveal them until at least 10 hours in.

Suddenly, Aveline asking for three goats and a sheaf of wheat becomes very worrisome.

[David Gaider]

Captain Cornhole wrote...
If he is straight in one play through and not in the other and it is still cannon then we have a continuity problem. 

You do realize that not mentioning Karl or having the opportunity to have sex with a man in a particular game does not make him straight, yes? That is your assumption. You are free to assume such-- as I said, it's not mentioned much for precisely that reason -- but that does not alter reality and cause "a continuity problem".

[Valtauran]

I have noticed in some RPGs that have romances, like ME and ME2, DAO and DAII, all done by Bioware, besides DAII, the romances have been severely restricted, for example, on ME, i HATE Kaiden, its just, i hate the dude and i love the female shepards' voice, but i also like Ashley Williams, her character, her struggles to get noticed in a good way in the military.

But sadly, you couldn't romance her as a female, if only they did what they did in DAII in the other games, i would have had far more fun.

I believe they made the romances so accessable so that you could play a male or female and still romance any of the romance-able companions, in a realism point of view, its silly, but in a game point of view, its the right thing to have done.

So, those that like say Anders, but doesn't like the female Hawke for some reason, can still romance him, i just find the whole romances not being restricted to gender is a good thing, now you can be whatever gender you enjoy most and romance whoever you want.

Its like being able to romance Tali as a female shep in ME2 without any mods, that would be cool.

In the end, its a matter of choice.

Modifié par Valtauran, 17 mars 2011 - 05:35 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

but i also like Ashley Williams, her character, her struggles to get noticed in a good way in the military

If you would romance her with a female, you would defy everything you like about her. Because Ashley is a straight, religious person. It means that bi-option would partly ruin her character for your selfish idea of a game giving you pleasure of romancing her.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 17 mars 2011 - 05:52 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

but i also like Ashley Williams, her character, her struggles to get noticed in a good way in the military

If you would romance her with a female, you would defy everything you like about her. Because Ashley is a straight, religious person. It means that bi-option would partly ruin her character for your selfish idea of a game giving you pleasure of romancing her.

Yeah, having had extensive talks with her, it's doubtful she'd be bi/lesbian.  Not saying those that are can't be highly religious (My friend's mother was a known lesbian and  pastor at her church), just it's unlikely for the specific character as written.

That said, I find it perfectly fine that all in DA2 are bi and with exception of Isabela (and sometimes Anders and Fenris I guess? Only had Anders hit on my female rogue, chose to romance him with my female mage) they seem to be whatever you need them to be for your gameplay. 

Modifié par AbsolutGrndZer0, 17 mars 2011 - 05:59 .

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

they seem to be whatever you need them to be for your gameplay

I find it cheap and inconstistent, and for the better of my gameplay, Isabela would better take damn bow in her hands.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 17 mars 2011 - 06:06 .

[Elite Midget]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

but i also like Ashley Williams, her character, her struggles to get noticed in a good way in the military

If you would romance her with a female, you would defy everything you like about her. Because Ashley is a straight, religious person. It means that bi-option would partly ruin her character for your selfish idea of a game giving you pleasure of romancing her.

Apparantly Ashley was planned to be bi...

Besides, I've met Gay Religious people in real life. Just because your gay doesn't mean you can't believe in something while despising those that twist said views into unwarrented hate against another people based on their race, upbringing, or sexual orientation.

[Valtauran]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

but i also like Ashley Williams, her character, her struggles to get noticed in a good way in the military

If you would romance her with a female, you would defy everything you like about her. Because Ashley is a straight, religious person. It means that bi-option would partly ruin her character for your selfish idea of a game giving you pleasure of romancing her.

I have met several gay people that followed different faiths, some christians and some jewish, that is really a closed minded view you have there.

Modifié par Valtauran, 17 mars 2011 - 06:37 .

[sgreco1970]

David Gaider wrote...

I'll say this much and be done with it:

For Anders and Isabela it was decided they would initiate the romance, but only if the player was showing themselves at all receptive (beyond actively flirting with them, I mean) -- in Anders' case, for instance, there's only one option (the Diplomatic one) when you speak to him that leads to this. The other two options do not. Otherwise it's up to the player to initiate.

If that's not what you're interested in, then turn him down. You may get rivalry points (you don't always), but that's not a "punishment". There are plenty of other ways to get friendship points if the Friendship path is what you're interested in. Rivalry is not a punishment-- it's an alternate follower path with its own dialogue, romance and gameplay bonuses.

Beyond that, if the concern is you might accidentally be exposed to an unwelcome sexual advance-- oh well. One would hope you'd deal with it in the same mature manner you'd do so in real life. There are numerous other times in Dragon Age where you might be confronted with uncomfortable situations, and you don't get to dictate those, either.

Fenris and Merrill don't initiate a romance with any gender, and really their sexuality is the most subjective since they don't discuss it. Regardless, why someone would be concerned about what other people might do in their playthroughs is difficult to say. If the idea that a character might be having hypothetical sex with someone of the same gender in an alternate dimension bothers you, then by all means don't continue with their romance. That's why they're optional.

In DA2 specifically, one of the strongest elements of choice in the game is your choice of relationship-- with friends, family as well as with romances--and we feel that's important to retain. That's why it's there. It's not political correctness that drives this, but an effort to provide freedom in the places we feel it's most important.

And I'll leave it at that. Enjoy.

A very well worded post that I deeply and greatly appreciate. Thanks for your viewpoint on this and thank you for putting it so succinctly. Not everyone here has the issues that poster does, and I for one applaud Bioware's and your stance on this issue.

[Deztyn]

David Gaider wrote...

Captain Cornhole wrote...
If he is straight in one play through and not in the other and it is still cannon then we have a continuity problem. 

You do realize that not mentioning Karl or having the opportunity to have sex with a man in a particular game does not make him straight, yes? That is your assumption. You are free to assume such-- as I said, it's not mentioned much for precisely that reason -- but that does not alter reality and cause "a continuity problem".

Great.

So either A) It's a deliberate choice to deny content to people with a FemHawke, in order to let them pretend Anders is straight, despite how his previous relationship with Karl might affect their views of Anders other decisions in the game.

or Anders sexuality depends on Hawke.

I'm not sure which idea I hate more to be honest. 

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

that is really a closed minded view you have there

I have many views like that, but you've missed out which one exactly I applied there.

Modifié par DamnThoseDisplayNames, 17 mars 2011 - 08:03 .