27 réponses à ce sujet

[mmmmmmPie]

I see Joshua Stiksma (sorry if spelled wrong) here answering some questions and he seems to know a bit about the mechanics of the game.

How exactly are damage calculations done?

Damage for warrior melee attacks and abilities

Damage for rogue attacks and abilities

And, this one is my personal favorite, I'd really like an explanation for this...

Damage for Mage spells.

[Joshua Stiksma]

Spotted me!
I'll bother Peter T tomorrow and see if I can get a proper description, as there are many factors involved.

I don't want to throw a guess at you... BUT IF I WERE TO DO SO!:
Base damage for all classes is based roughly on weapon damage + primary attribute bonus (warriors strength, rogues dex, mages magic.) These results are often modified by active, modal, and passive ability modifiers to get a value for the character we will call his 'damage'. The remaining steps would be taking into account the damage multiplier of the ability being used (imagine basic attacks being 1.0 multiplier with abilities being higher) and then factor in critical hit and class combo multipliers to reach the final output damage. The output damage is then checked against the type resistance of the creature being hit by the ability for a 'final damage'.

Peter will probably smack me tomorrow --I sit beside him and he's my lead-- as I might have butchered that a bit (hopefully some of that was new or at least useful.)

Out of curiosity, what interests you in the mage spells? From my knowledge it should be roughly the same calculations, though mages have a type resistance of the different element it pertains to and rogues/warriors usually check vs armor unless they have elemental weapons.

[mmmmmmPie]

What specifically interests me most about the mage spells is how the base DPS of the weapon/staff you have equipped is calculated into the spell damage. So trying to min/max a blood mage for example where your stats are kind of spread all over the place and every point counts it would be helpful to know how much your weapon DPS effects dmg.

I guess maybe if possible some reasoning as to the design decision to have base weapon damage effect spell damage would also be nice.

Lastly the way elemental/spell resistances scale between difficulty levels doesnt seem to be documented anywhere so a brief rundown of that would be very helpful and appreciated  too especially for casters.

FYI Peter should be proud because I think your best guess version is very very close, if not precisely,  on target.

Modifié par mmmmmmPie, 16 mars 2011 - 03:24 .

[AgenTBC]

Are you sure that the damage of the staff matters for spell damage and not only for the mage's basic attack?

[Joshua Stiksma]

ah! Yeah, I can definitely confirm it does affect damage. It was a design decision with the goal in mind to encourage mage characters to upgrade their weapons. How much I can't confirm at the moment from home, but I'll check for you.

[mmmmmmPie]

AgenTBC wrote...

Are you sure that the damage of the staff matters for spell damage and not only for the mage's basic attack?

Oh I'm positive about that.  You can see it in the game itself just by trying different staffs, but if you really want to see an extreme version, try using a mod that removes class requirements on weapons and give your mage a 2H sword or better yet a bow.  MEGA damage boost on your spells.


@Joshua Again TYVM!

Modifié par mmmmmmPie, 16 mars 2011 - 03:27 .

[AgenTBC]

Thanks, I thought I was doing more damage because my magic stat was increasing.

[MachDelta]

Good to know, I was running Meril with a slightly outdated staff that had a blood:mana boost on it because I thought it was a better stat to have than another 8 dps on her magic stick.

[Joshua Stiksma]

Lastly the way elemental/spell resistances scale between difficulty levels doesnt seem to be documented anywhere so a brief rundown of that would be very helpful and appreciated too especially for casters.

Originally we had spell resistances for each group of creature in the game, but it ended up being too punishing and often frustrating for testers. Instead, we opted for creature vulnerabilities, which is basically the same thing except you get bonus damage instead (don't tell anyone!) Most creatures have some sort of elemental vulnerability to exploit, including physical damage. This is flat across all difficulty levels.

A quick example is that rage demons are vulnerable to ice and take much more damage from cold attacks.

Back to resistances though: this is now only an active feature on nightmare where the resistances of creatures are a binary 0 or 100% at the moment.

Modifié par Joshua Stiksma, 16 mars 2011 - 03:38 .

[Joshua Stiksma]

AgenTBC wrote...

Thanks, I thought I was doing more damage because my magic stat was increasing.

This is also true, it is a combination of weapon damage, the primary attribute of the class, and a few other things

[MachDelta]

Hey another question while you're around... how does this stat sweet spot thing work exactly?

[ashwind]

A question that is also related to damage calculation but not damage output but rather damage received.

I notice that at the end of the game, my Damage Resistant is at -18% and according to the tool-tip, it states that Damage Resistant is calculated accumulatively with armor and other resistant.

Also, the same amount of Armor provides less protection with every level gained hence, the higher the level, the less a character can resist damage. Coupled that with the increased damage output by mobs... wont armor and skills be super inflated IF future expansion of the game actually allows for character to reach level 50?

I cant help but see this as a flaw in the design...

Modifié par ashwind, 16 mars 2011 - 03:50 .

[sepir]

I'm into Act 3 now, and I notice that nearly everything I attack with my warrior has a shield with an x in it. Is this Fadeshear, resistance to melee, or resistance to my silence chance on hit? I also notice normal attacks seem to only do about 30-60 damage, at the end of Act 2 it was about 120. Varric is still shooting them for 150-200 with some of hit special hitting for 1200+, so I don't think they are resisting all physical damage.

[Joshua Stiksma]

My last one for the night:

MachDelta wrote...

Hey another question while you're around... how does this stat sweet spot thing work exactly?

I'm not familiar with the exact term, but my best guess is that this is referring to the curve for attributes effecting the stats of your character. The basic goal behind it is to encourage having well rounded stats so players can deal with the wide varieties of situations they'll encounter in the game. As a side note, this was also one of the design reasonings for the stat requirements on armor.

I suppose the sweet spot would be keeping your attributes at a nominal level to get the most benefit to your whole character as a whole (not just in whatever property that stat benefits.) For my tank warrior as an example I will obviously want strength, but once it is high enough I will not get as much benefit and it might be more worth it to put points into constitution for health or cunning for defense. As for the formulas behind this, I cannot post them at this time (It is a pretty graph though, promise.)

ashwind wrote...

Coupled that with the increased damage output by mobs... wont armor and skills be super inflated IF future expansion of the game actually allows for character to reach level 50?

Yes, you are correct when saying that the armor values will be inflated. We tried to make the inflation as low as possible while still giving you guys the "Oh snap! Higher armor on this chestpiece!" moments. It's a balance game that we hope we hit with you folks.

Thanks for the questions and I hope that answers them somewhat.

[Mark B]

MachDelta wrote...

Good to know, I was running Meril with a slightly outdated staff that had a blood:mana boost on it because I thought it was a better stat to have than another 8 dps on her magic stick.

Same here and I really didn't need to as she was getting 7 for 1 (about 2,800 mana equiv.) next time I'll change it up.

One question I do have - there are 2 items I have found in the game that state "100% of base attack damage".  Is this a bonus?

[Peter Thomas]

Joshua Stiksma wrote...

Peter will probably smack me tomorrow --I sit beside him and he's my lead-- as I might have butchered that a bit (hopefully some of that was new or at least useful.)

Ah Josh, Josh...

Ability damage works the same for all the classes. This is the order of operations for damage. Each is a separate step.


Base Weapon Damage (in the weapon description, not including on-hit bonuses)
+ Primary Attribute Modifier (0.5 per point over 10)
* Ability Damage Factor (Winter's Grasp is 4.48833 for example)
* Hit Result Modifier (1.0 for normal hits, 1.5+ for critical hits)
+ Berserk Bonus Damage
* Damage Type Modifier (stuff like +15% fire damage)
* Blood Frenzy/Veneer of Calm Modifier (1.0-2.0)
* Cross class Combo Multiplier (if applicable)


That is the value assigned to the damage effect. When the effect is applied to a creature, it has a couple other things that modify it. These are steps done on the creature when the effect is processed.


Damage Effect Damage
* Templar Damage Bonus (vs fade creatures/spellcasters)
* Damage Type Resistance Modifier (armor, fire, resistance, etc)
* Damage Resistance Modifier (flat damage resistance)
* Magic Resistance Modifier (flat magic resistance)
* Rear Vulnerability Modifier (Shield Defense gives this unless you upgrade it)
* Blindside Modifier
* Brittle Modifier (if a critical hit)
* Damage Redirection Modifier (if Aveline absorbs damage from the target, etc)


That determines how much damage the creature takes and what number appears above its head. That's not the actual amount of health deducted from it, though, since that is abstracted a bit to allow for better scaling between difficulty levels.

[Netris]

Peter Thomas wrote...
Base Weapon Damage (in the weapon description, not including on-hit bonuses)
+ Primary Attribute Modifier (0.5 per point over 10)
* Ability Damage Factor (Winter's Grasp is 4.48833 for example)
* Hit Result Modifier (1.0 for normal hits, 1.5+ for critical hits)
+ Berserk Bonus Damage
* Damage Type Modifier (stuff like +15% fire damage)
* Blood Frenzy/Veneer of Calm Modifier (1.0-2.0)
* Cross class Combo Multiplier (if applicable)

Thank you!
And could you please answer these questions:
1) When and how non-base weapon damage calculating (i.e. dagger with +3 *TYPE* damage)?
2) What about misc items (rings etc) with +X% to *TYPE* damage?
3) How dual-wield damage calculating for Rogues?

Modifié par Netris, 19 mars 2011 - 12:04 .

[Peter Thomas]

Netris wrote...

Thank you!
And could you please answer these questions:
1) When and how non-base weapon damage calculating (i.e. dagger with +3 *TYPE* damage)?
2) What about misc items (rings etc) with +X% to *TYPE* damage?
3) How dual-wield damage calculating for Rogues?

1) When an ability hits, if the ability was a hit with the weapon (basic attacks, a lot of Warrior and Rogue abilities), it looks at the individual weapon that cause the hit. It runs through each of the on-hit properties on that weapon and applies its effect. So a staff with the following properties:

Staff
  69 fire damage per hit (whatever DPS)
  +10% spirit damage
  +7 electricity damage
  2.5% chance to stun normal enemies for 3s

You hit with a basic attack. It processes that attack normally, applying damage, force and secondary effects from other abilities/modes you may have on you. Then it checks the weapon for on-hit properties. In this case, that's electricity damage and chance to stun. The damage it just applies straight, the stun it checks against the percentile chance of it happening before applying.

2) Those modify a character property, which is included in the "Damage Type Modifier" step.

3) Each weapon hits individually. Basic attacks usually alternate which weapon hits, and abilities usually hit with both (to avoid biasing towards one hand or the other). The "Base Weapon Damage" as well as what on-hit properties apply is determined by which weapon hit with that particular strike. There is no penalty or other trickery involved with calculating dual weapon damage.

[TAJ4Life]

Joshua Stiksma wrote...

Spotted me!
I'll bother Peter T tomorrow and see if I can get a proper description, as there are many factors involved.

I don't want to throw a guess at you... BUT IF I WERE TO DO SO!:
Base damage for all classes is based roughly on weapon damage + primary attribute bonus (warriors strength, rogues dex, mages magic.) These results are often modified by active, modal, and passive ability modifiers to get a value for the character we will call his 'damage'. The remaining steps would be taking into account the damage multiplier of the ability being used (imagine basic attacks being 1.0 multiplier with abilities being higher) and then factor in critical hit and class combo multipliers to reach the final output damage. The output damage is then checked against the type resistance of the creature being hit by the ability for a 'final damage'.

Peter will probably smack me tomorrow --I sit beside him and he's my lead-- as I might have butchered that a bit (hopefully some of that was new or at least useful.)

Out of curiosity, what interests you in the mage spells? From my knowledge it should be roughly the same calculations, though mages have a type resistance of the different element it pertains to and rogues/warriors usually check vs armor unless they have elemental weapons.

I still think there is an issue here with damage, I am using the 'The final thought' staff with added damage, along with champion armour and it still seems i am hardly doing any damage. I think the calculations are a bit off...

[MaximusPhoenix]

This is a bit off-topic, but can anyone tell me what kind of spells do and don't work on bosses, or which ones have diminishing effects? I am mostly talk about the Force Mage spells, mostly...not sure if it is a waste to cast POTB or others on bosses.

[Begarian]

Where's the modifier for "awesome"? If I press X harder and faster does it increase my "awesome" modifier?

I'm just kidding.

I'll have to keep in my mind these calculations when I'm deciding between adding a point or two into my damage attribute for that level or gaining more mana/stamina and health.

[TAJ4Life]

Ive also noticed that you can still do damage to a Rage Demon and a Dragon (any kind) with FIRE and it gets hurt now im pretty sure that in many other games if you try to use an element of the same the enemy is instead HEALED or IMMUNE but in this game its not the case...

[Begarian]

Playing on Nightmare, when I hit a Rage demon with a fire spell, it says immune.

[TAJ4Life]

Begarian wrote...

Playing on Nightmare, when I hit a Rage demon with a fire spell, it says immune.

Shouldn't have to put it on nightmare mode for that to appear, in all honesty there is no point in doing nightmare unless you get tons more money, better gear, more XP etc and possibly achievemants...However it should still show immune regardless.

[Netris]

Staff
  69 fire damage per hit (whatever DPS)
  +10% spirit damage
  +7 electricity damage
  2.5% chance to stun normal enemies for 3s


You hit with a basic attack. It processes that attack normally, applying damage, force and secondary effects from other abilities/modes you may have on you. Then it checks the weapon for on-hit properties. In this
case, that's electricity damage and chance to stun. The damage it just applies straight, the stun it
checks against the percentile chance of it happening before applying.

Thanks again!

3) Each weapon hits individually. Basic attacks usually alternate which weapon hits, and abilities usually hit with both (to avoid biasing towards one hand or the other). The "Base Weapon Damage" as well as what on-hit properties apply is determined by which weapon hit with that particular strike. There is no penalty or other trickery involved with calculating dual weapon damage.

Hmmm... make sence. But then what is this number dmg/dps in rogue stats? Example:
Hawke is Rogue with 45 Dex and without any equip and abilities. So he has two default daggers: 3 dmg/6 dps. So, attack speed of each is 2 attacks per second.
Damage dealed by one base attack = 3 + (45 - 10)*0.5 = 20.5
We have two such daggers and 4 attacks per second (2 from each). So overall dps should be:
20.5 * 4 = 82.
But on char-screen we see next:
dmg 23 (43 dps)
Why so?

Modifié par Netris, 20 mars 2011 - 02:07 .