82 réponses à ce sujet

[Zigabogado]

After playing for a while, and getting into the middle of Act II, it appears Varric is completely useless.

My party consists of: Myself (Melee Rogue), Varric (Scrapper), Merril (Controller), and Aveline (Tank).

Aveline does a great job as tank, able to hold the agro of the majority of the enemies, that is, until, Varric seems to screw everything up. I am having no luck whatsoever in keeping him alive. No matter what I do, he always ends up gaining Agro, and getting killed very early in a battle. I have tried adjusting his tactics, and no matter what I do, he ends up slacking, gaining agro, and being killed.

Now, what I ask is, is there anything to do to make him better? Tactics or ability wise?
Or should I get a new party member? (Based off of my current party.)

Modifié par Zigabogado, 16 mars 2011 - 03:14 .

[Atmosfear3]

Gee, rogue companions useless when Hawke is a rogue him/herself. Who would have thunk it?

[Jarlaxlecq]

^ hes pretty right, you only need 1 rogue in a group and if Hawke is one.....

[Malanek]

There is no reason not to have multiple rogues. To be honest I'm pretty shocked hearing Varric being described as useless. I would have put him in the top tier. He's like a machine gun and a howitzer.

[Boysenberry]

If you have aggro problems, I highly suggest having Varric learn Armistice and Goad under the Scoundrel tree. Set up your tactics for him to use Goad on himself whenever being attacked and have him use Armistice on Aveline continuously through the battle to help her keep hate. Make sure he also learns Evade and Stealth too.

It also helps if you have Aveline go down the Battlemaster tree to get the Battle Synergy stance and upgrade it with Fearless Synergy as fast as possible.

[Zigabogado]

So, it looks like I would have to change out Varric.
For who, though?

[HawXV2]

Varric does insane damage. That's why you gotta have a tank, or else he'll get too much threat and be slaughtered.

[Zigabogado]

HawXV2 wrote...

Varric does insane damage. That's why you gotta have a tank, or else he'll get too much threat and be slaughtered.

Aveline can't handle it all. He agros /too/ much.

[Malanek]

If it's just aggro you are concerned about you can give him Subtlety. Passive which makes threat generation -25%. I never have but never needed it, it seems to work pretty well on Isabella. You also get evade along the way which also helps. And think about it, why is he attracting so much aggro, its because of the damage. Concentrate on making your other characters generate lots of aggro, don't like Aveline so much because she doesn't deal enough damage to draw aggro naturally. Haven't used her enough to explore her later game options though.

Modifié par Malanek999, 16 mars 2011 - 03:41 .

[Zigabogado]

Malanek999 wrote...

If it's just aggro you are concerned about you can give him Subtlety. Passive which makes threat generation -25%. I never have but never needed it, it seems to work pretty well on Isabella. You also get evade along the way which also helps. And think about it, why is he attracting so much aggro, its because of the damage.

Ah, there we go. That helps, a lot.
I will try it, thank you.

[Lialdia]

First team to make it to the end (not Nightmare difficulty, mind you) for me was DW Rogue Hawke, Varric, Isabela and Fenris. It worked pretty darn effectively.

Party setup, then abilities for each character to compliment that setup. Like I had Stealth for all my Rogues, mostly with tactics saying to use it below 50% or 75% health. Couple that with Evasion (with upgrade) for when they get swarmed. Chameleon's Breath with upgrade was my life saver altogether.

But let's talk Varric. Firstly do you use any Cross-class Combos at all? Getting Kickback with upgrade from Varric's own ability tree, and upgraded Shield Bash for Aveline let's you abuse the Stagger effect (note that Merill could abuse the Stagger aswell with Chain Lightning just fine).
You mention Merrill as "controller" so I assume you have picked things like Petrify, maybe Winter's Grasp? This to create Brittle which Varric could abuse with Archer's Lance from the archery abilities.

Survivability wise for Varric either get skills in the Scoundrel tree and use the abilities there to redirect the threat to Aveline or get other survivability means like Evasion (maybe with upgrade) which is also required for the flat -25% threat reduction passive in the Subtlety tree. Stealth is, as mentioned earlier, another good way for your rogues to survive.

Finally taking direct control of the character and moving him around to where you need him, or where he is out of the harm's way can be done aswell.

Edit: One more thing about the moving. When you must ensure certain character is not drawing aggro on monsters which are already engaged with someone else, just tell him to move somewhere. He won't be shooting at anyone while strolling along.

Modifié par Lialdia, 16 mars 2011 - 03:47 .

[Jarlaxlecq]

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying he's useless. He's got a permanent spot on my group. Its just that I find two rogues not as useful. Which is a shame as I'd love to have room in my group for isabela but can never seem to make it work

[Noodlewidagun]

considering that Rogue warrior combos are scarce, and at times difficult to pull off, with two rogues your losing the valuable mage DPS component that can lead to much better combos.. unfortunately, seeing as how Varric IS a major powerhouse, rolling a rogue for Hawke is almost like shooting off one of your feet and hopping around one-footed the entire game. it's a tricky tradeoff. do you want more constant damage from Varric? or do you want to coast through tough encounters via ranged Crowd Control and a vast assortment of CCC's? up to you, mainly.

[Raiil]

I dunno, on my mage I found him to be pretty damn useful. On a few occasions (because I always had Anders and Varric with me), we were Team Range DPS and Varric's aoe archery stuff worked out amazingly well, since we were essentially playing Pass the Aggro constantly.

If he has an aggro dump, it works pretty well.

[Tj14]

if you get the full upgrade for Specialist and use Speed + Bianca Song + (Something) Oiled...
It literary turn Bianca into M60 machine gun
and you just need some AOE skills for crowd control, oh I forgot to mention to use Haste also
Enjoy

[Togra_blah]

<<edit> Plz note the image quality is fine, but the size is not by default - approx 200% webpage zoom worked well for me. Also, Attributes are with his two Sustained Abilities off, something i noticed a bit late heh.>

This is how i roll my Varric, who's autoattack smashes stuff and who manages his aggro, and that of other party members, exceedingly well.

I run on nightmare, PC Version, currently Act 2 - i see 200+ autoattack dmg from him very frequently on easier mobs (crits i presume, which is about every other hit).

Note that none of the abilities in Subterfuge have their upgrades (waste of points), but all Marksman ones do, and all but one Scoundrel do as well (next lvl i'll be upgrading that last one which lacks it).

Copy this build with a tank setup with proper tactics in the party, and i challange you to continue to dislike Varric.

Modifié par Togra_blah, 16 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[Noodlewidagun]

unfortunately, Armistice and Goad don't work on Console versions, so those options are out the window for anyone but PC users.. i wish my PC could handle this game so bad... i'd rather play it on PC.

[Togra_blah]

Noodlewidagun wrote...

unfortunately, Armistice and Goad don't work on Console versions, so those options are out the window for anyone but PC users.. i wish my PC could handle this game so bad... i'd rather play it on PC.

Wow they seriously don't work?

Those are integral aggro management!

I just started reading on the Forums (came looking for info on a few optional quests in Act 2 that are irritating me), hadn't heard about that.

I suppose if your warrior taunts well enough, it can be somewhat mitigated, but geez.......

I'd still reccomend that other ability (upgrade absolute must - get junk if u must to have point req) in Scoundrel, it's basically a 2nd Stealth for aggro wipe.

Also, the images don't look as good as i'd hoped...... not sure if text is readable..... anyone having trouble reading it?

I'll type it out if so.

<<edit> Nvm on image quality - just have to zoom in on webpage to read it (200% worked well for me), the quality is actually pretty darn good. Also fixed my format for edited section hehe.>

Modifié par Togra_blah, 16 mars 2011 - 04:42 .

[Malanek]

Does Precision actually beat Speed for overall damage? You picked it for the mainly for the +crit chance rather than attack?

[Noodlewidagun]

i didn't have any problems reading it. maybe had to squint a little, but it's definitely readable. if i read right, the whole reason armistice and goad don't work is because of a targeting issue of sorts.. The details were a bit fuzzy, but I've tried it on the X360, and go squat for it. i sighed, as i bought another maker's sigh to remedy my fruitless endeavor. what a shame. my only real workaround was to have the rogue that pulled Back to back to aveline, and once the mobs got close, the rogue would stealth, and just go back to her. XD desperate times....

[Togra_blah]

Malanek999 wrote...

Does Precision actually beat Speed for overall damage? You picked it for the mainly for the +crit chance rather than attack?

I picked Precision for 20% attack, couldn't care less about the crit, honestly.
 
Idk how it scales on difficulties, but on Nightmare, with it off, i have 88% chance full dmg on Bosses, with it on, 100% (yes, that's 100% vs any mob hehe).

<<edit> Attempting to rectify my double post by editing the contents of the 2nd one into this one, bear with me. Proper punctuation and capitalization added to edited section hehe.>

Noodlewidagun wrote...

i didn't have any problems reading it. maybe had to squint a little, but it's definitely readable. if i read right, the whole reason armistice and goad don't work is because of a targeting issue of sorts.. The details were a bit fuzzy, but I've tried it on the X360, and go squat for it. i sighed, as i bought another maker's sigh to remedy my fruitless endeavor. what a shame. my only real workaround was to have the rogue that pulled Back to back to aveline, and once the mobs got close, the rogue would stealth, and just go back to her. XD desperate times....

Could i get a link to that info plz?

Also, where the bloody 'ell is the Search feature for these Forums?

I can't find it for the life of me!

I doubt this is it, but Armstice has a limited AoE, my best guess is that ppl read it as "all aggro gone", where it's actually a specific-size Detaunt (thus i only have it used when a party member is attacked by a Melee attack - only mobs in the range of the ability would be affected by it).

Modifié par Togra_blah, 16 mars 2011 - 04:44 .

[Togra_blah]

<<edit> Oops, i double posted, i edited the contents of this post into the prior one, but i cannot find the Delete button for this one.  >

Modifié par Togra_blah, 16 mars 2011 - 04:41 .

[Noodlewidagun]

on a related note, i just noticed that if Varric had green skin, he could pass for a goblin.. goblins are never useless.. discuss.

[Zigabogado]

Thanks for all the help guys.
To my dismay, I might have to restart, though I doubt it. I'll try and clean up Varric, and my team more.

[Cloaking_Thane]

Craziest statement I've heard all day, Varric survives very well in my hard/NM run (hard on Dragons/Rock Wraith and thats it)

and I run with Rogue Hawke, and (2) whoever I feel like running with at the moment (excluding Sebastian).

Distribute evenly between Dex, Mana and Const and he has pretty good survivability and DPS tbh, also feel free to use makers sigh liberally