57 réponses à ce sujet

[elearon1]

 I have to say that I really appreciated the fact that the "junk" loot was filtered off into its own inventory section while wandering through the game, but I do wish they'd not counted it toward your final loot total.  Some of the junk was amusing to find and read the descriptions of, but overall it was worth so little that after the mid point in the game I found myself avoiding it altogether, because it was filling up my space too quickly.  

I would really like to see, in a DLC or other, the "junk" section removed from  your inventory limit, or somehow made more integral to the game, so collecting junk was worth the effort. (like, if you collect so many X you gain a bonus, or whatever)  Alternately, i'd love to see Junk somehow worked into the item creation system (like X number of Y replacing a specific Ingrediant, or opening a new fomula) rather than merely granting too litlte money for what it was. (after a while it was hard for me to bother even reading the description on "junk", as I knew it meant nothing to the overall game)

So, good beginning, but Please, let us do more with it, or ignore it completely.

[NorseWrath]

Why include it if its junk... I didn't understand this when I first saw this.

I mean the amount of "junk" in origins - like trade manifests, blank vellum, etc did not compare to this.

[fallingseraph]

Why would anyone want to pick up torn pants, let alone buy them from me?

[andocrack]

I like the junk feature, but there's so much and doesn't seem worthwhile to gather. Ten pieces of junk yield the same as a worthless belt or ring, so I only collect it if I have put all my extra items into storage and if I know I'll be going to a merchant soon.

[Shazzie]

At first I liked the Junk feature... some of the items made me smile! A few of them are from DA:O. For instance, the first junk loot item I got was a Vial of Darkspawn Blood... hey, didn't I have to get that in DA:O's prologue? This is cool! And then I got a lot of various DA:O companion gift items as junk loot (Alistair's statuettes, Zevran's gold bars, etc.), and those made me smile.

But the smiles were vastly outweighed by meaningless junk. All the items with zero flavor text, zero description, zero reason for picking them up (sales price of 3 copper, WHY would I even bother??). Getting QUEST REWARDS that went into the Junk tab had to be the worst, though. 'Tome of the Slumbering Elders', a most valuable tome the Dalish had kept since the last Dalish dreamer! A useless 75 silver item with ...again, no descriptive text whatsoever. Oooh, feel the ancient worthiness of this special tome.

Sigh.

[Bims110]

Shazzie wrote...

But the smiles were vastly outweighed by meaningless junk. All the items with zero flavor text, zero description, zero reason for picking them up (sales price of 3 copper, WHY would I even bother??). Getting QUEST REWARDS that went into the Junk tab had to be the worst, though. 'Tome of the Slumbering Elders', a most valuable tome the Dalish had kept since the last Dalish dreamer! A useless 75 silver item with ...again, no descriptive text whatsoever. Oooh, feel the ancient worthiness of this special tome.

Sigh.

I know what you mean with that tome.  The way it was described, I was convinced that having it would be useful at some point.  So I went the rest of the game with it in my inventory just waiting for it to be useful.  Maybe use it to help Merrill with the mirror or something, I dont know.  I was hugely disappointed when I finished the game with it still sitting uselessly in my inventory

[Matroska]

Yeah, it was a bit strangely handled. An icon or little image for it would have been nice, too, if not a description. If they automatically go into the junk section, they don't need to have the default junk icon as theirs. Some of the junk is worth a mere 3 coppers but you couldn't know that till you took it to a merchant. Then you'd have to remember what junk was literally junk and what was more valuable loot.

I have to say, though, no matter how awkwardly implemented it feels, it doesn't get on my nerves as much as trying to figure out what to dump from my inventory in Origins. All the bloody crafting items that I never used got annoying after a while. And yeah, quest rewards being counted as junk does seem odd. It's like if your friend gives you a present and the first thing you do is throw it in the bin while he's watching.

[TJSolo]

I have to say, though, no matter how awkwardly implemented it feels, it doesn't get on my nerves as much as trying to figure out what to dump from my inventory in Origins. All the bloody crafting items that I never used got annoying after a while. And yeah, quest rewards being counted as junk does seem odd. It's like if your friend gives you a present and the first thing you do is throw it in the bin while he's watching

The amount of crafting goods you might not use that goes into the "Other" pile in DAO pales into the amount of junk that is universally useless to everyone that goes into the "Junk" pile. The difference is so much that I don't even know why one would try to make a comparison. Maybe it is because whenever a negative comment is mentioned about DA2 something negative has to be added to balance the scales of Justice.

[Mark B]

I agree that there's too much junk and my dissappointment whan I visited my first merchant to sell him the garbage I'd stolen from a refugees crate only to be offered 2 coppers for it! One fiftieth of one percent of a gold piece! To buy one measly 30 silver piece potion you' have to rob 1,500 refugees.

My main gripe is the lack of an item preview when you pick up an item. Now it's "Ooh look a ring, pause game, go to inventory, find new item, compare" rather than just seeing the stats as you pick it up.

[ImmaturityRules]

Just got the "valuable Dalish tome" and spent five minutes searching the inventory for it, only to find it in Junk, I was like "What the hell?".

It should have been a Skill Book, at least.

[Shazzie]

Mark B wrote...
My main gripe is the lack of an item preview when you pick up an item. Now it's "Ooh look a ring, pause game, go to inventory, find new item, compare" rather than just seeing the stats as you pick it up.

If you're on the PC, you can mouse over the items prior to looting them. Still not sure if that's easier than simply digging through the bags for Ornate Ring #12 or not, though.

I really dislike the super bland naming conventions in this game.

[Joshua Stiksma]

Thanks for the feedback in this thread, there are obvious rooms for improvement here.
I'll forward this on to the team, but please keep discussing.

[bambooxfox]

Aye, I miss the flavor text for items. The epic weapons and armor get their own codex entries as usual, but it's just not the same thing.

Though I did get a kick out of this one:

[Matroska]

The amount of crafting goods you might not use that goes into the "Other" pile in DAO pales into the amount of junk that is universally useless to everyone that goes into the "Junk" pile. The difference is so much that I don't even know why one would try to make a comparison. Maybe it is because whenever a negative comment is mentioned about DA2 something negative has to be added to balance the scales of Justice.

It's more the fact that junk in DA2 gets automatically put into the junk pile and the whole idea was obviously conceived as a loot system, like the one found in FFXII, for example. In Origins unwanted **** got spread through your inventory like medieval malware.

The problem with DA2's junk is that it's unclear what it truly worthless and what's more like traiditional loot, later to be converted into coin. In Origins it was more that you could potentially end up carrying around severeal apothecaries' worth of herbs, and enough bits of random trap-related crap that you could open your own junkyard right there in the dungeon. In both cases the problem is that it's not readily clear how worthwhile any of it is - if DA2 said the price of an item once you'd sold one of them and if Origins said what recipes an item was used in, it would solve the issue.

My main gripe is the lack of an item preview when you pick up an item. Now it's "Ooh look a ring, pause game, go to inventory, find new item, compare" rather than just seeing the stats as you pick it up.

Yes, I agree with this. On a related note, it's annoying when your inventory is full and you can't press Y (or whatever it was on PC and PS3) to immediately open up the inventory. It's a minor thing, but it adds to the tedium of checking out every anonymous bit of equipment you find.

I really dislike the super bland naming conventions in this game.

I can see where you're coming from with that as it did strike me at first how many items just have generic names. I think it's another one of those things where it's actually more believable and realistic than the normal WRPG convention where everything has a special name. When you find some boots in a box underground, how do you know it's "The Mighty Boots of Bogdan Thunderface"? Normally WRPGs get around that by having identify spells or shops, but DA doesn't do that. So I think it does make sense that only the most legendary items are recognisable or even named in the first place.

Modifié par Teclo, 16 mars 2011 - 05:24 .

[MachDelta]

Maybe junk could be made more relevant by giving it a purpose with the vendors.

Like, say you collect a bunch of torn pants and moth eaten scarves (or whatever) and you're free to sell them to whoever you want for cash, BUT if you sell them to a tailor then maybe after selling them enough tailor-appropriate junk (in addition to the cash) it will unlock new/better equipment in their store. So it could be like a way of upgrading a certain vendor to try and get slightly better items out of it. Wine bottles and things could go to potion vendors, ores and stones could go to smiths, books could go to mage-y type stores, etc.

Just a thought that jumped into my head.

[Nug Pie]

The original problem in games like this was wondering whether this gem is "junk", i.e. only good for sale, or if it's useful to turn in for a quest, or for crafting.

At least they have the quest, "useful items", and "junk" separated out. The sale prices are so inconsequential, I agree that they should not count towards the backpack total.

[Nug Pie]

bambooxfox wrote...

Aye, I miss the flavor text for items. The epic weapons and armor get their own codex entries as usual, but it's just not the same thing.

Though I did get a kick out of this one:

I'm still waiting for a "Wirt's Leg", and "a better Wirt's leg with three gem slots in it".

[TJSolo]

It's more the fact that junk in DA2 gets automatically put into the junk pile and the whole idea was obviously conceived as a loot system, like the one found in FFXII, for example. In Origins unwanted **** got spread through your inventory like medieval malware.

Loot that did not have a purpose like as weapons, armor, or potions went into "Other" it was not spread around randomly. The "Other" pile of loot was could have a purpose other than being sold for coin.

The problem with DA2's junk is that it's unclear what it truly worthless and what's more like traiditional loot, later to be converted into coin. In Origins it was more that you could potentially end up carrying around severeal apothecaries' worth of herbs, and enough bits of random trap-related crap that you could open your own junkyard right there in the dungeon. In both cases the problem is that it's not readily clear how worthwhile any of it is - if DA2 said the price of an item once you'd sold one of them and if Origins said what recipes an item was used in, it would solve the issue.

You choosing not to make traps or potions with the crafting goods is your decision. Another player might like assembling traps or potions. From first hand experience the amount of trap making supplies found from just questing is not enough to make more than a few of the basic traps,
Learning what crafting good is used in what recipe is part of the progression through the crafting skills, not a problem.

[Dominus]

I would really like to see, in a DLC or other, the "junk" section removed from your inventory limit, or somehow made more integral to the game

I agree, pressing loot all was fine until I realized I had about 100 lbs. of Junk mid combat and had to manually destroy it all one by one to collect something worthwhile. It would be nice to be able to remove more than one at a time for something along those lines. We need... a trunk for that junk.

[Matroska]

MachDelta wrote...

Maybe junk could be made more relevant by giving it a purpose with the vendors.

Like, say you collect a bunch of torn pants and moth eaten scarves (or whatever) and you're free to sell them to whoever you want for cash, BUT if you sell them to a tailor then maybe after selling them enough tailor-appropriate junk (in addition to the cash) it will unlock new/better equipment in their store. So it could be like a way of upgrading a certain vendor to try and get slightly better items out of it. Wine bottles and things could go to potion vendors, ores and stones could go to smiths, books could go to mage-y type stores, etc.

Just a thought that jumped into my head.

That would be good, it's how loot works in FFXII. Bioware also stole the Gambit system from that game so they may as well go for the loot unlocking more items thing too. 

[TJSolo]

Nug Pie wrote...

The original problem in games like this was wondering whether this gem is "junk", i.e. only good for sale, or if it's useful to turn in for a quest, or for crafting.

At least they have the quest, "useful items", and "junk" separated out. The sale prices are so inconsequential, I agree that they should not count towards the backpack total.

I would rather get an item like a gem and not know it is for a quest before getting the actual quest intead of picking up random things and somehow magically knowing who it belongs to and where they are in the Free Marches.  

Modifié par TJSolo, 16 mars 2011 - 05:38 .

[Matroska]

TJSolo wrote...
[snip]

My point was that in both cases, it's lack of info. You can learn what items go into what recipes and therefore only take relevant ones. But you may also want to take ones to sell not to make recipes with. Similar to how I'd always take bolts and arrows since they sold for quite a lot. In DA2 you can learn the junk that sells poorly and the junk that doesn't - it's often implied in the name roughly how valuable it's going to be anyway. But would it really be so bad to have a tooltip thing for, say "Elfroot", that says what recipes it's used in and, if you don't want to make any of those for some reason, how much it sells for? There are appraisal skills in really old-school, hardcore WRPGs that do this - just saying that to preempt an inevitable complaint about how that's casual or some such crap.

Also, the problem with the Other tab in Origins was that it was too vague. It contained runes, gems and gifts. You'd obviously want to sell stuff like some gems or a silver plate, but it was sectioned off with gifts that you presumably would want to keep. They had the "Sell All Junk" option at merchants, but you'd still have to manually move all items into Junk to begin with, so it was kind of redundant. At least DA2 cleared that up.

[Oliver Sudden]

I just always figured most of the junk was just a way to keep us from getting bored. Instead of getting 5 silvers and 10 copper pieces, we get 3 silver pieces and then an additional 2S 10CP worth of named junk just for variety's sake. Doesn't bother me and, yeah, sometimes the descriptions make me smile.

I guess there could be something under game options to give people a choice of all money or a combo of money and loot, but the worst part is not having any idea what the junk's worth before going to sell it.

[TJSolo]

The general information about many ingredients is available in the codex and the current DAO tooltips, any more specific than that would require the player to have access to the necessary crafting skill.
I guess the lead designers for DAO wanted the player to go into the other tab and look sort through it to find anything of meaning. There is also players that complain that sorting through a list is too much.
The junk option is console one and it is not redundant because the other section was not the junk section. It was up to the player to decide what would be junk to them. Once the player made the effort to move x good into the junk pile all further x goods would drop into the junk pile.

There is just not a lot of junk loot in DAO. Stuff you choose not to use is not the same as junk.

[Shazzie]

Teclo wrote..

I really dislike the super bland naming conventions in this game.

I can see where you're coming from with that as it did strike me at first how many items just have generic names. I think it's another one of those things where it's actually more believable and realistic than the normal WRPG convention where everything has a special name. When you find some boots in a box underground, how do you know it's "The Mighty Boots of Bogdan Thunderface"? Normally WRPGs get around that by having identify spells or shops, but DA doesn't do that. So I think it does make sense that only the most legendary items are recognisable or even named in the first place.

Oh, I don't require names as specific as that! Just, say...
Silver Opal Ring
Gold Opal Ring
Ornate Opal Ring
Ornate Gold Opal Ring
Extravagant Opal Ring
etc....
and repeat for other gemstones...
Heck, perhaps even make the types mean something. Perhaps Silver is +Attack,  Opals are +Regen...some system like that.
At least then you would be more easily able to find the precise ring in your bags, instead of mousing over 5 different Ornate Rings that each have different stats.