78 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

I like the Keeper. She was one of the best NPCs in the game (naturally, she had to die) and I feel she was a good person.

But I disagree with what she did.

First, she took a demon into herself, telling no one, and then she made her clan sit outside a Templar occupied city for six years, all for Merrill.

I'm going to guess that she is the equivalent to an Olympic gold medalist when it comes to willpower as she was able to contain a pride demon for so long, but what if she faltered? Imagine her succumbing to the demon when Hawke, Merrill, and the other companions weren't there. Pretty sure that dalish clan would have been wiped out and the countryside endangered.

Pride demon + Keeper = Incredibly powerful abomination.

[Edit: I was wrong about this. She did not have the demon inside of her for six years. ]

And what about the swarm of Templar's in Kirkwall? We know that Knight-Commander Meredith is obsessed when it comes to hunting apostates. After six years, that the dalish were camping out in Sundermount would reach her ears. Again, the clan could be wiped out.

Even if everything goes according to her plan, the clan loses its Keeper and they're obviously not going to take Merrill back after she murdered Merithari.

So we have a Keeper who puts her entire clan in horrible danger and ensures it will be leaderless for... what?

Merrill?

I adore Merrill but Merithari ought to value the clan over her First possibly becoming an abomination.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 16 mars 2011 - 06:49 .

[levi.porphyrogenitus]

I almost have to think that she tried to defeat the demon in the Fade and only took it into herself once she realized she couldn't actually beat it. Since she'd already released it in order to attempt to fight it, she had no choice but to try to trap it inside herself unless she was willing to see it go free.

Arguably, the fundamental mistake was in trying to face the demon alone (only the PC seems able to do such things consistently).

[Uhh.. Jonah]

Obviously not since her whole clan is dead except Merrill.

[jlb524]

It doesn't seem that she did the right thing, to be honest...unless she had a vision that Merrill becomes some grand champion of the elven people some day and believes it worth risking the clan to save her.

[bztang]

Uhh.. Jonah wrote...

Obviously not since her whole clan is dead except Merrill.

Well you don't actually have to kill anyone else in her clan, if you pick the option "I'll take responsibility" when you meet them outside the cave.

[Lapetus]

I particularly liked that scene after defeating the pride demon. Merrill, maybe that will teach you that hugging is bad.
The quest was slightly ruined for me because I got a bugged cutscene that should have appeared after the pride demon, but I got it way back in Act 2. Kind of like flipping straight to the last few pages of a book.

[bztang]

I think if the Keeper hadn't done what she did, Merrill could've have become an abomination instead, but with super Hawke with her, we'll never know for sure

[errant_knight]

Yes, it seems stupid, that she let love cloud her jugdement and put saving Merril over the wellbeing of the clan. Another possibility is that she has some notion of what that mirror would do and thought that taking the demon into herself was less risky than letting Merril make a deal with it regarding the mirror.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

bztang wrote...

Uhh.. Jonah wrote...

Obviously not since her whole clan is dead except Merrill.

Well you don't actually have to kill anyone else in her clan, if you pick the option "I'll take responsibility" when you meet them outside the cave.

Oh thank god.

[Foolsfolly]

The Keeper loved Merrill...and that love blinded all reason. She destroyed her clan, doomed Merrill to Blood Magic, and sold herself to a demon all for love.

It's tragic.

And I loved Merrill in my first game but things like this make it really hard for me to like her...or Anders. They really wanted you to dislike mages in DA2.

[jlb524]

Merrill doomed herself to blood magic.

[errant_knight]

Anders was just really nasty to Merril at the end of that battle, and he wasn't wrong. Pretty ironic given what he eventually did, though, talking about people getting hurt. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that part of what we saw in the game was Anders losing his mind over the decade, or at least any semblance of control over Vengence.

Modifié par errant_knight, 16 mars 2011 - 04:51 .

[Maria Caliban]

jlb524 wrote...

Merrill doomed herself to blood magic.

Merrill doesn't seem very doomed to me. She willingly left the clan. She told Hawke to kill her if the demon possessed her.

The blood magic didn't seem to factor into things.

errant_knight wrote...

Anders was just really nasty to Merril at the end of that battle, and he wasn't wrong. Pretty ironic given what he eventually did, though, talking about people getting hurt. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that part of what we saw in the game was Anders losing his mind over the decade, or at least any semblance of control over Justice.

When we went into the sewers to get his salt peter, Anders turned to me and said, "You know, Merrill will never give up her demon for you."

I just sat there and thought, 'Wow. Look who's talking.'

I also liked Aveline's banter with him, "If all the mages I know, I always assumed you'd be the one to go out in a blaze."

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 16 mars 2011 - 04:50 .

[errant_knight]

She thinks she can deal with demons and come out the winner. She was willing to betray Hawke in the fade, or couldn't resist the demon enough not to do so. I don't see a bright future for Merrill.

Modifié par errant_knight, 16 mars 2011 - 04:50 .

[Darian Tylmare]

Everybody who ends up getting killed and knowing beforehand did something wrong in their life.
Just saying.

[Foolsfolly]

jlb524 wrote...

Merrill doomed herself to blood magic.

I can see your point, and it's valid. But Merithari allowed Merrill to keep pieces of the mirror and work on it, knowing full well that no good could come from it. And when Merrill made her deal with the Pride Demon, Merithari knew and did nothing.

Merrill made her choice but Merithari did nothing to help safe her or the future of their clan.

[TexasToast712]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I like the Keeper. She was one of the best NPCs in the game (naturally, she had to die) and I feel she was a good person.

But I disagree with what she did.

First, she took a demon into herself, telling no one, and then she made her clan sit outside a Templar occupied city for six years, all for Merrill.

No, Merithari only takes the demon inside herself right before you go up the mountain to find him. Thats why she says "Go with Merril, I will go ahead of  you and try to buy you some time."

[NRO TYN]

Well not sure why she took the demon into her, but my quess why she kept her clan next to Kirkwall was maby for the next Arlathan gathering between the Dalish. That what i believe but i highly doubt that now with the case being that Da2 is only 7yrs and not 10.

[Brockololly]

What I'm wondering about Marethari is what debt was it that tied her to Flemeth? She says she's tied to a debt needing to be repaid to Flemeth just as much as Hawke when you hand over the amulet.

[Maria Caliban]

errant_knight wrote...

She thinks she can deal with demons and come out the winner. She was willing to betray Hawke in the fade, or couldn't resist the demon enough not to do so. I don't see a bright future for Merril.

Merrill doesn't think she'll win. She tells you straight out that dealing with demons always carries a price, she expects that she'll be possessed, and she wants you to kill her when that happens. Her conversations with the other companions going up the mountain are all her saying goodbye.

In Merrill's mind, she's playing a game of Russian roulette. She *hopes* she can win but doesn't expect it. However, to her, the mirror is worth the risk.

As for the Fade, two of your companions will not betray you: Anders and Sebastion. And one of them already has a demon possessing them.

[errant_knight]

Foolsfolly wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Merrill doomed herself to blood magic.

I can see your point, and it's valid. But Merithari allowed Merrill to keep pieces of the mirror and work on it, knowing full well that no good could come from it. And when Merrill made her deal with the Pride Demon, Merithari knew and did nothing.

Merrill made her choice but Merithari did nothing to help safe her or the future of their clan.

I think the keeper thought that we'd be stopped by the thing whose name I've forgotten in the cave and have to give it up. Just forbidding Merrill from doing things didn't seem to work that well. Perhaps she should have killed her, but that's just not the keeper's way. What else could she have done? She did everything she could, including giving the tool to Hawke instead of Merrill. If I was to play a second time, I'd refuse to give it to her.

Modifié par errant_knight, 16 mars 2011 - 04:59 .

[Zack Ross]

Well I didn't imagine she took the demon into her until recently. From what I've heard she decides to take this demon into herself once you make it clear to her that Merill will not back down from this path. I doubt she kept it in for six years, but I'm sick of this trend in DA II where people are dying and there's literally 0 option to save them.

[KnightofPhoenix]

errant_knight wrote...

Yes, it seems stupid, that she let love cloud her jugdement and put saving Merril over the wellbeing of the clan. Another possibility is that she has some notion of what that mirror would do and thought that taking the demon into herself was less risky than letting Merril make a deal with it regarding the mirror.

It might have been specific instructions from Flemeth. Perhaps she found out that Morrigan is also using those mirrors.
Flemeth knew exactly where that clan would be and the Keeper seems to know Flemeth from before.

[TexasToast712]

jlb524 wrote...

Merrill doomed herself to blood magic.

People seem to think that blood magic always involves demons and that is why it is seen as forbidden. This is not always the case. Its just that the bad ones that have blood magic always try to control demons. Blood magic is just the act of using your blood (or others. BAD) instead of lyrium to power your spells.

[Pileyourbodies]

TexasToast712 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Merrill doomed herself to blood magic.

People seem to think that blood magic always involves demons and that is why it is seen as forbidden. This is not always the case. Its just that the bad ones that have blood magic always try to control demons. Blood magic is just the act of using your blood (or others. BAD) instead of lyrium to power your spells.

Except merril did work with a demon...It gets the keeper killed and if you use poor choice of words the entire clan can die because of her choice.