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[Skilled Seeker]

Xilizhra wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Rivalmance Merril. It's awesome.

Let's just say that this is... questionable.

What, by discouraging her from using bloodmagic and helping her deal with her obsession with the mirror? To friendmance her is the questionable path.

[Jugo616]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Rivalmance Merril. It's awesome.

Let's just say that this is... questionable.

What, by discouraging her from using bloodmagic and helping her deal with her obsession with the mirror? To friendmance her is the questionable path.

Concidering that both my Warden and Hawke was more or less chaotic good blood mages... not realy.

Modifié par Jugo616, 22 mai 2011 - 10:07 .

[Skilled Seeker]

It certainly is the more questionable path in accordance with the lore. I don't care about your specific character. And I take it you know how the blood magic and rebuilding the mirror ends for Merril.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 22 mai 2011 - 10:12 .

[Addai]

I hated this quest line. You either have to treat Merrill like a child, withholding her toys and saying you'll assume responsibility for her (WTH, like that is even possible? are you supposed to babysit her every minute?), or you confirm her in a foolish and reckless path. And when you tell the clan the truth- that Marethari attacked you and you were defending yourself- they try to kill you for it. So, like with Anders, I wash my hands of it all and just don't do their act 3 quests at all. There's no sense in getting involved.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 mai 2011 - 11:33 .

[Xilizhra]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

It certainly is the more questionable path in accordance with the lore. I don't care about your specific character. And I take it you know how the blood magic and rebuilding the mirror ends for Merril.

Yes, Marethari gets herself possessed and we have to kill her, then lie to the Dalish so that they don't go crazy. Merrill's blood magic never harmed anyone; Marethari fell to her own pride, and nearly brought Merrill down with her.

[LobselVith8]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

It certainly is the more questionable path in accordance with the lore. I don't care about your specific character. And I take it you know how the blood magic and rebuilding the mirror ends for Merril.

The lore? We know Grey Wardens are created through blood magic (The Joining), which means it's the reason the Blights can even come to an end because the Grey Wardens are the only ones who are capable of destroying the Archdemon's essence. We know Gaider has said the phylacteries can be viewed as blood magic at PAX, and Finn used a form of blood magic during the quest to locate an operational Eluvian. We know Duncan has acknowledged to a mage protagonist that blood magic is used by some Grey Warden mages to fight the darkspawn. If Merrill is using her blood magic abilities responsibly, then why is it questionable?

Also, her path with the Eluvian ends the same way, whether she's a friend or a rival - with the death of Keeper Marethari.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 23 mai 2011 - 12:25 .

[Xilizhra]

Also, her path with the Eluvian ends the same way, whether she's a friend or a rival - with the death of Keeper Marethari.

And with her letting go of her obsession. The main difference is whether Hawke forces her into it or Merrill comes to the conclusion herself.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, her path with the Eluvian ends the same way, whether she's a friend or a rival - with the death of Keeper Marethari.

And with her letting go of her obsession. The main difference is whether Hawke forces her into it or Merrill comes to the conclusion herself.

Her goal in risking her life for a mythic artifiact she's conducted research on seems no different than The Warden's venture for the Urn of Sacred Ashes - both characters are making a leap of faith for something they believe can be beneficial to their endeavor.

[Xilizhra]

I will concede that there's a slight difference there--the Warden's search probably only takes two weeks at most, while Merrill's Eluvian thing lasts for seven years--but otherwise agree with you.

[LobselVith8]

Xilizhra wrote...

I will concede that there's a slight difference there--the Warden's search probably only takes two weeks at most, while Merrill's Eluvian thing lasts for seven years--but otherwise agree with you.

That's true, but if Merrill is correct about the Eluvian, then it could irrevocably change the lives of elves across Thedas for the better. As it is right now, the only place where elves have any hope of changing their lot is the Tevinter Imperium, and that's applicable only for elven mages (like Fenris' sister). As it is right now, elves are reviled, regardless of whether they are denizens of the Alienages or the nomadic members of the Dalish clans. Merrill could be wrong about the Eluvian, but I don't see anyone else doing anything to change the plight of the elves.

[bleetman]

Advancement is, unfortunately, not always for the better.

Did you not wonder why the clans live so separate from each other, and only meet up every decade? Why they've been doing this for centuries? I imagine the Dalish have good reason to be cautious of their own recovery. Right now, they're largely tolerated and left alone because they're not worth the effort to root out. The Dalish survive because the Chantry turns a blind eye to them. They're left alone out of indifference rather than compassion. Until they can rebuild without risking the resentment of humanity, the elves won't be bettering their situation any time soon.

[jlb524]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, her path with the Eluvian ends the same way, whether she's a friend or a rival - with the death of Keeper Marethari.

And with her letting go of her obsession. The main difference is whether Hawke forces her into it or Merrill comes to the conclusion herself.

Hawke tries to force her to give it up but she continues on....until the end after Marethari's death.  Then Hawke can say 'I was right, you were wrong, neener neener neener'  (though Hawke being right debatable).

The best part about the friend path is that you get to see that Merrill does have doubts about what she's trying to do, but she pushes on as she believes what she's trying to do is worth it.  Rival Hawke never sees this (for obvious reasons) and it just feels like it ends with Hawke being able to lord some kind of victory over Merrill when things go wrong.

[WeRtheBrox]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Her goal in risking her life for a mythic artifiact she's conducted research on seems no different than The Warden's venture for the Urn of Sacred Ashes - both characters are making a leap of faith for something they believe can be beneficial to their endeavor.

The difference is that the eluvian was known to be tainted and to have killed people, while the Urn was believed to have miraculous healing powers.

[Skilled Seeker]

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, her path with the Eluvian ends the same way, whether she's a friend or a rival - with the death of Keeper Marethari.

And with her letting go of her obsession. The main difference is whether Hawke forces her into it or Merrill comes to the conclusion herself.

Without metagaming, Hawke wouldn't know this. So since my Hawke didn't want her to take the risk, it was best to take a firm stance.

[LobselVith8]

bleetman wrote...

Advancement is, unfortunately, not always for the better.

Did you not wonder why the clans live so separate from each other, and only meet up every decade? Why they've been doing this for centuries?

This is mentioned because the templars hunt down the Keepers of the clan, since they are technically "illegal mages" according to Andrastian law. I respect that Merrill is trying to do something to help her people, even if it turns out she's wrong about the implications of the Eluvian, because every other member of the Dalish clans are doing nothing but hoping to stumble upon a part of their legacy instead of being proactive about improving the lives of the People.

WeRtheBrox wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Her goal in risking her life for a mythic artifiact she's conducted research on seems no different than The Warden's venture for the Urn of Sacred Ashes - both characters are making a leap of faith for something they believe can be beneficial to their endeavor.

The difference is that the eluvian was known to be tainted and to have killed people, while the Urn was believed to have miraculous healing powers.

The shard of the Eluvian was tainted, but it was cleansed. Merrill used blood magic to cleanse it because she didn't have a sufficient amount of lyrium, and I'd imagine the templars would rather run her through with a sword of mercy than hand over lyrium to an illegal mage who is a "heathen." If the shard wasn't cleansed, then it would have corrupted her, like the broken shards of the Eluvian corrupted the elves The Warden encounters in the Elven Ruins in Witch Hunt.

[Rifneno]

jollyorigins wrote...

Pfft, the way the dalish act in this game they deserve to explode into bloody DA2 chunks. But if you do want to save them tell them it was Merrill's fault and you will take responsibility for it (Think it's the third option, the bottom one.)

This.

The Dalish storyline was possibly the most nonsensical one in Act III, which is REALLY saying something.  Even Arianni tries to kill you ffs!  "I know you're the only reason my son is alive.  For a stranger you faced everything from slavers to templars, even braved the Fade itself and resisted the allure of powerful demons, all without even a promise of reward.  On the other hand, DIE SHEMLEN!"  Epic facepalm.

Edit:  Fixed mixed up names

Modifié par Rifneno, 23 mai 2011 - 05:16 .