54 réponses à ce sujet

[Helena Tylena]

During the entirety of that fight, I had one Templar stuck outside, behind the energy barrier, going all 'er, guys? What the hell?' Made me giggle.

But yes, Orsino going all fleshy ball of death was... random...

[Renessa]

Dark Specie wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

The whole thing would have worked better if they'd all been less crazy and easier to sympathize with. It would have made choosing a side really hard. This was pretty easy. Meredith was clearly nuts and wanted to kill people who she knew had nothing to do with it. It I'd sympathized with her at all it would have been a different matter. Having blood mages/abominations everywhere and rapist templars, crazy ass leaders.... I just wanted to kill them all. No, I just wanted to leave. If there'd been an option for 'Say, King Alistair, can I please come back to Ferelden with you? I like Ferelden.' I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

Agreed. Pity indeed that there's no third choice involving cutting both sides down or the like

but all in all, I think Bioware tried too hard here to try and give us a "No side is truly good/justified/whatever here!" scenario, really. The Witcher handled that matter better IMO - no matter what you do, no side is truly pure and things DO go to hell regardless of our actions - but at least you get to kill the guy who instigated the whole conflict and are left with a feeling of accomplishment at the very least as you recover that which was stolen from your order. DAO 2 leaves us with nothing of that sort...

This!

The whole thing was really badly done. As the OP points out, perhaps there would have been some justification for this surprise move of Orsino's, IF the situation really would have been hopeless, but the battle had just been won.

The core of the problem lies in the fact, that they did not write different scenarios for different choices by the PC. So no matter what your Hawke did or did not do, Orsino had to turn into an abomination. Perhaps the time really was too short for actually creating a number of different endings.

Now, I am not bashing the game. I had great fun playing it. It is probably because I really did love the story up to that point, that this forced ending affected me so badly.

[Shin Kicker]

I agree with the OP about that scene not making sense. And yeah, I think it was just to make another boss battle (and maybe to try to throw in some despair/chaos during the final battle, even though the execution didn't make sense).

But I don't get the comments in this and other threads that keep insisting that Meredith and Orsino were both terribly wrong. Meredith called for the killing of all the mages (which is actually more extreme than the annulment was made out to be in Origins, I believe). Exactly what was Orsino wrong about? Wanting to not die?

[AlexXIV]

I'll just mention TFU (The Force Unleashed). It's the worst game I ever played because you have NO choices until the end and then you can choose how you fail/die. I think every RPG developer should stay as far away as possible from this kind of game making. By no means DA2 is as bad as TFU, but I kept being reminded of it while playing DA2. Because I really hate to watch a movie which only gets interrupted by hack and slash that is not even immersive, but in opposite gives you sort of MMO bossfight.

I like Bioware games but I always hoped they would improve towards RPG, but with DA2 they made a step in the wrong direction.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 mars 2011 - 09:23 .

[mcsupersport]

Orisino's boss battle when siding with the mages was very poorly done. I was actually thinking of siding with Templars(I played mage) until Meredith pulled her kill them all even when Anders stood right there and confessed. I then wiped the floor with the templars and got the blob for my pains. Why they couldn't have had that happen outside when you first face Meredith to have it as a cause of her going apesh@@. Just poor writing, with neither character in the game enough to be a really good end villain.

[Moondoggie]

Orisino was the weirdest plot device since Bioware decided the Reapers needed to build a giant human reaper for some.....reason. I just thought the exact same thing when siding with the mages he decides to pull out some forbidden ritual for no reason and attack you for the sake of forcing a boss fight on you.

I'd understand if they had two possible end bosses depending on who you side with. That would have actually made sense. I guess they needed two boss battles to fill the space because the last quest was really short.

[Medet]

If Orsino was going to go the way of the fleshblob to save us from the waves of evil templar that would doom us all, perhaps there should have been some sort of, say, evil templar around at the time. Other than the dead ones i'd just fried.

Would it have been so hard to spawn an unending swarm of templar hunters and lieutenants, maybe even Meredith herself, and have his transform trigger when you hit 50% hp? Then he could faceroll the Templar and knock Meredith away while the remaining mages flee in a cutscene and be left with just you and your sad task of putting him down after his sacrifice.

[AlexXIV]

Well Meredith was the supposed end fight. You have to fight her no matter what.

So they could make Orsino a boss fight only if you side with the templars, but then the mage supporters would miss out. I guess that's the reasoning. I think alot of people including me could have done without the Orsino bossfight. But oh well, what's done is done.

[SexBomb]

Yes, OP. My Hawke was being very positive about everything, at the end. "Hey, we're going to go out there and beat Meredith, I promise!" ...And all that good stuff. Maybe I looked away for a split second. Maybe I missed something. But all of a sudden he just slit his wrists and was like "BLOOOOD MAGIIIIC, BLAAAAUUUGGGHHH!"

Just verifies the linear plot and lack of thought unfortunately put into this game.

[Maelora]

This was such an epic fail moment.

I supported the mages every step of the way, we're sticking itt to the templars, and he turns on me??? WTF?

[Branclem]

I agree that this scene was quite silly. I imagine it would have been much better if, say, another huge wave of templars charges into the room and things aren't looking great. Orsino flips out, does his transformation, and then bashes the templars into the ground. With the initial threat gone though, he's totally lost to the abomination and you have to kill him.

[Medhia Nox]

I imagine they were attempting to make an "Empire Strikes Back" with Dragon Age: 2 Expansion" being the "Return of the Jedi.

You were a witness to Anders' and Isabela's story - not Hawkes. That's what kills me most.

[Montana]

Maelora wrote...

This was such an epic fail moment.

I supported the mages every step of the way, we're sticking itt to the templars, and he turns on me??? WTF?

I agree, that moment was truly an epic fail.

[Loc'n'lol]

The Orsino fight was pretty forgettable, they could have skipped it and gone directly to Meredith for those who sided with mages (when siding with templars, the Orsino fight makes perfect sense).

[unspoken_demise]

 I'm a little baffled as to what prompted the developers to take the route they did with Orsino. I can understand the "desperation" explanation; he felt he was going to die and decided on the nuclear approach. Fine. Except, as the OP suggested, why do it then? I played through my first playthrough on nightmare and handily defeated all of the templars which came through. Really, Orsino? Your life is in imminent danger? I think not.

If you're going to use that idea, why not make it when he gets to Meredith instead as one of the above posters stated? Perhaps they have a brief confrontation, Orsino feels there is no other way / is overcome by the situation at hand, and he loses control and becomes the abomination.

Or the black/black morality issue... if the developers deem this to be necessary, that does not make it necessary for Orsino to embrace his inner Harvester, at least not in the way it was done. It would, in my opinion, have been more meaningful to use a post-game cutscene, for example, to depict his "darker side," especially the connection with Quentin, suggesting to the player that his principles, control, and reason were at least in part a facade. 

[Freestorm Skinn]

This forced binary moral choice is, in my opinion, the biggest flaw in Bioware's games, and I'm a fan.

I wish there was a third or fourth choice as another poster mentioned: a "Sod you all, I'm outta here!" or a "That's it! I'm killing you both!"

[AngelicMachinery]

Taleroth wrote...

Both Orsino and Meredith were handled very sloppy at the end. I hate to make such a judgmental comment, but there it is.  Meredith had better leadup, but it was still disappointing.

But meredith had that kewl sword, and "seh culd fli!"

[The Erinyes]

Agreed. I really enjoyed the game (I'm almost done playing it for a second time already), but Orsino going demon when you side with the mages nearly ruined the game for me the first time I played. As mentioned by the OP and other commentors, we were winning as far as I could tell (mopping the floor, might I add, without any trouble). And if that wasn't supposed to be the case, then we needed another cut scene or something to make it seem like things were far, far worse. If this had been done just a little differently, it could have been a great fall for Orsino. Instead, it felt contrived for the sake of an extra boss fight.

[greyman33]

Totally agree. When siding with the mages this battle feels pointlessly tacked on and nonsensical. Even if they insisted on having this fight there had to have been at least a dozen better ways to have set it up and executed it.

The game forces you to fight both group leaders anyway, so how about this little retcon to provide a battle that almost works (from the perspective of taking either side in the final fight): He goes all Harvester right off the bat out of panic, losing his mind completely as the demon takes over, mind controls Meredith to co-opt her own natural fanatic bloodlust. Meredith does her thing until put down while Orsino watches from the background, maybe commenting on the battle as it progresses, then steps in himself afterward for the sheer demonic joy of watching things burn around him. Maybe he even gives you the option of avoiding the fight and joining him as he begins laying waste to the world before starting that final fight.

That, while still feeling a touch like a cop-out, would have been much better, imo. Instead we get what we get... Such is life.

[TJPags]

This was yet one more inexplicable "whatever" moment of the game.

They needed to fit the Harvester into the game somewhere - otherwise there was absolutely purpose to GoA - and couldn't find a good place. So they threw it in here, as one more random boss. Senseless in terms of the story.

[Kamarek]

Although I completely agree with most of you in this thread your all missing the big picture...If we didn't fight Orsino I wouldn't have gotten his awesome looking staff.

[Sjofn]

Shin Kicker wrote...
But I don't get the comments in this and other threads that keep insisting that Meredith and Orsino were both terribly wrong. Meredith called for the killing of all the mages (which is actually more extreme than the annulment was made out to be in Origins, I believe). Exactly what was Orsino wrong about? Wanting to not die?

The Right of Annulment in Origins was also "kill every single damn mage in the place, even the kids."

[AlexXIV]

Kamarek wrote...

Although I completely agree with most of you in this thread your all missing the big picture...If we didn't fight Orsino I wouldn't have gotten his awesome looking staff.

lol

That's the big picture?

[Zaros]

AlexXIV wrote...

Kamarek wrote...

Although I completely agree with most of you in this thread your all missing the big picture...If we didn't fight Orsino I wouldn't have gotten his awesome looking staff.

lol

That's the big picture?

Well duh, considering no other reason would make any sense in context.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Clearly we should have left the Qunari to purge the city in a baptism of fire.