280 réponses à ce sujet

[digital flaneur]

 Honestly, this, to me, is cheating us out of the really fascinating issues regarding what Anders did. I don't want to see an Anders "fixit"; I don't think it's possible to remove him from his desire to see the mages escape slavery, period. Even if he was somehow separated from Justice.

I seem to be alone here, but I loved Justice in Awakenings and I loved him in DA2, too -- so I would like to see more of him. I do miss old Anders a lot, and on the level of good writing Anders' transformation would have been more convincing if we had seen more of him, but looked at as a whole his entire story arc is just so compelling. 

But then again, I did not kill Anders, nor did I think what he did was unjustified -- pun intended, ha. He was correct. If the Chantry had remained, the two factions would have remained at a stalemate, period. Anders' actions will bring about real change. Whether that's for good or ill remains to be seen, and it could very well get much worse, but there's something to be said for the audacity to push society beyond a dysfunctional system. Even if he manipulated Hawke in an awful way to achieve what he wanted. 

And honestly, it's not like the Chantry is blameless and pure. Even just in DA2, while the Grand Cleric and Sebastian were arguing away in Hightown, Anders healed refugees at great personal risk for seven years. Destroying a holy place is something that rightfully strikes us as unforgivably awful, but seeing how the Chantry responds to people who differ from their perspective (elves, qunari, dwarves, the Tevinter Chantry), to say nothing of the treatment of mages, I find it hard to be hugely sympathetic towards them. 

Modifié par digital flaneur, 31 mars 2011 - 03:59 .

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

digital flaneur wrote...

 Honestly, this, to me, is cheating us out of the really fascinating issues regarding what Anders did. I don't want to see an Anders "fixit"; I don't think it's possible to remove him from his desire to see the mages escape slavery, period. Even if he was somehow separated from Justice.

I seem to be alone here, but I loved Justice in Awakenings and I loved him in DA2, too -- so I would like to see more of him. I do miss old Anders a lot, and on the level of good writing Anders' transformation would have been more convincing if we had seen more of him, but looked at as a whole his entire story arc is just so compelling. 

But then again, I did not kill Anders, nor did I think what he did was unjustified -- pun intended, ha. He was correct. If the Chantry had remained, the two factions would have remained at a stalemate, period. Anders' actions will bring about real change. Whether that's for good or ill remains to be seen, and it could very well get much worse, but there's something to be said for the audacity to push society beyond a dysfunctional system. Even if he manipulated Hawke in an awful way to achieve what he wanted. 

And honestly, it's not like the Chantry is blameless and pure. Even just in DA2, while the Grand Cleric and Sebastian were arguing away in Hightown, Anders healed refugees at great personal risk for seven years. Destroying a holy place is something that rightfully strikes us as unforgivably awful, but seeing how the Chantry responds to people who differ from their perspective (elves, qunari, dwarves, the Tevinter Chantry), to say nothing of the treatment of mages, I find it hard to be hugely sympathetic towards them. 

I agree with pretty much everything said.
But Anders and Justice can't exist properly (I think somewhere in the rivalmance (where you side with the templars or something) Anders admits to a lot of blackouts where Justice/Vengeance was in control)

So finding a way to help them exist while helping Anders deal with his problem (because clearly it aint happening!) without destroying each other would be nice.

God, I hope DA3 is a continuation of DA2 and its romances... (ha, I should be so lucky.)

I wonder what the Warden would make of Ander's predicament?

[Iles]

Dreaming-in-Shadow wrote...

I agree with pretty much everything said.
But Anders and Justice can't exist properly (I think somewhere in the rivalmance (where you side with the templars or something) Anders admits to a lot of blackouts where Justice/Vengeance was in control)

That's exactly my point. I don't want something that "erases" what Anders did, that's impossible.
I don't even want old Anders back because we all know he's gone forever.
I just want a way for him to live again as human and not as a brainless puppet focused on one purpose alone. Redemption would be great, freeing him from Justice and let them both find peace again would be even greater, but at least changing Vengeance back to Justice could be nice.

[typingmonkey]

I don't think it's likely, but yeah, I would be all over Anders DLC. I'm not sure I want to "fix" him, for narrative reasons, but damn does my Hawke want to.

I wonder what would happen to Justice if Anders was made Tranquil.

[digital flaneur]

Ohh, okay, I see. Yes, some kind of hope for peace for Anders would be nice.

The thing about Vengeance is that the source of it is, apparently, Anders' anger. The only way I could see him being "freed" is if he is somehow able to let go of that in a Jedi-like fashion. With a war brewing, though, fear of mages is going to rise dramatically, and the Templars and Mages both are likely to commit more atrocities against each other. Not good odds for Vengeance going away

I would honestly like a bit of story clarification from the writers about the Justice/Anders merge, at some point; if we can go into the Fade to save Connor and Feynriel, why can't we do the same for Anders? Presumably Anders doesn't want to do this -- maybe it involves killing Justice -- but it's hard to tell if Justice has access to the Fade at all. The dialogue's a bit confusing.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

digital flaneur wrote...

I would honestly like a bit of story clarification from the writers about the Justice/Anders merge, at some point; if we can go into the Fade to save Connor and Feynriel, why can't we do the same for Anders? Presumably Anders doesn't want to do this -- maybe it involves killing Justice -- but it's hard to tell if Justice has access to the Fade at all. The dialogue's a bit confusing.

Reason #90839401 why we need an Anders DLC!

I don't think Justice can connect to the fade volunterily, I got the impression he was sort of shut out.
I do know that while they're in the fade, Anders ceases to exist. (I freaked out momentarily on the "NIght Terrors" quest. XD)

It's fun to ponder though...

In Awakenings, Justice mentioned that he liked the idea of a stable, unchanging plane of existance (Thedas) and that desires corrupted spirits. Also, he started receiving Kristoff's memories and emotions and e.t.c.
While Anders has always been rather... antagonistic towards remplars. And wrath is not a virtue.

Add it all together, throw in a little darkspawn taint and I think that's what happened.
Maybe it's Vengeance that doesn't want to let go...
(aaand now I'm imgining Justice and Hawke fighing for Ander's attention...  (I should totally draw that sometime))

[ReallyRue]

I would pay for this DLC.
I really wanted to be able to do this, especially if it meant going into the Fade to separate them (like with Connor). I would like it even more if you could choose how to separate them, so although there may be an option to do it by killing Justice, maybe there could be an option to save him too. No reason why only Anders should be saved.

[nekhbet]

I thought it a little unfair that such a great character gets killed off completely, because he's dead in some people's games. For the rest of us, the ending leaves so many questions that demand answers. So, EA, are you listening? Take our money and give us some more Anders!

Wish BioWare would just make a few DLCs with different companions from the past games and let people get their much-loved characters back as they choose for DA3, too ... I wonder just how hard that would be technically. Sebastian was well-integrated, though, so seems entirely possible!

[Eollodwyn]

nekhbet wrote...

I thought it a little unfair that such a great character gets killed off completely, because he's dead in some people's games.

I'm reasonably certain that won't stop them from bringing him back if they want to.  They brought Leliana back, and they didn't even have the excuse of her being possessed by a spirit.  Wynne's spirit brought her back, so there's still hope!

[Icy Magebane]

To the OP: NO. I don't like DLC's related to specific characters... the only DLC should be based on the protagonist, not his father, and not some fan favorite who may not be interesting to the entire fan base. Forgive my harsh tone, but DLC's like Leliana's Song come to mind. I know some people love her, but I can't stand her, and I don't want to see yet another DLC about some character I don't give a damn about.

And to people who think it's cool to resurrect characters just because you didn't kill them? That's selfish. If anything, they shouldn't be giving us those options in the first place. Try to look at the world from somebody else's perspective once in a while.

[Mylene]

I really love this idea,but i dont think it would ever happen.

[xXxKatxXx]

if it was as big as Awakening they mite be able to do a lot with it i would go for it easy (free Anders/Justice DLC) i like that idea

[Herr Uhl]

Given that a lot of people kill him at the end, this seems unlikely.

[Eollodwyn]

Icy Magebane wrote...

And to people who think it's cool to resurrect characters just because you didn't kill them? That's selfish. If anything, they shouldn't be giving us those options in the first place. Try to look at the world from somebody else's perspective once in a while.

   
Mmmm, I think you're taking this a wee bit too seriously... 

[madzilla84]

I'd buy any DLC with Anders in a second. I want to see him again, whether it's in DLC or DA3 or whatever. DLC seems more likely, though, especially as DLC is optional and therefore, those that don't want to play DLC featuring Anders don't have to. For those who didn't kill him, his story isn't over yet, and I would love to see what happens next to him and Justice/Vengeance.

Ideally, I'd like to see ... well, he'll never have a happy ending - but a bit more hope, perhaps? I wouldn't be happy if, say, I spared Anders at the end of DA2 only to have to kill him/make him Tranquil in any DLC. It would be nice if the poor guy (not to mention Hawke, esp. if Anders is his/her LI) had some hope, for once.

[Herr Uhl]

Well, we can free Justice, but Anders did become a terrible bore after that.

Smelly too.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

Kazanth wrote...

Very unlikely that they'd make a DLC only available to some people. So unless Anders "gets better" I don't see it happening.

Really!  They did it with Witch Hunt, Darkspawn Chronicles, and Leliana's Song.  Those that are fans of Alistair, Duncan, and Zevran got screwed all the way around in regards to dlc with Origins.  The real question is would they choose to do it, not likely because it doesn't sinc with the current game ending.  No way possible to save Anders from himself; Anders forces everyone in the conflict of making people take sides in the mage/templar/chantry/circle conflicts.   

All of Thedas will have to decide.  Is the Trevinter Imperium behind everything that has happened in Thedas so far?  To me this is the real question.

I would like to see dlc on Anders on how he walked away from the Wardens or got away from the Templars again and gave his soul over to Justice.  How did it happen?  Had to be when the Warden was searching for Morrigan or when the Orleasian Warden was called back to Orlai.

[Shacary]

I woudl totally support a DLC that would allow us to punt Anders back to awakening wher ehe was a fun loving, humorous mage. I found him in DA2 to be like a junkie, he really bothered me, cuz he was my favorite toon from DAA. dont bash me, I didnt hate him but I didnt like the way his personality changed so much... ugh i cant help it clingy desperate junkie... its all i see...

[Iles]

Icy Magebane wrote...

To the OP: NO. I don't like DLC's related to specific characters... the only DLC should be based on the protagonist, not his father, and not some fan favorite who may not be interesting to the entire fan base. Forgive my harsh tone, but DLC's like Leliana's Song come to mind. I know some people love her, but I can't stand her, and I don't want to see yet another DLC about some character I don't give a damn about.

And to people who think it's cool to resurrect characters just because you didn't kill them? That's selfish. If anything, they shouldn't be giving us those options in the first place. Try to look at the world from somebody else's perspective once in a while.

I don't get what's the reason for being so harsh... you don't want it, you don't buy it. Easy enough, isn't it? 
I don't think we can say we're "being selfish" just for asking for something we'd like to buy.

[VenetianLunacy]

Iles wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

To the OP: NO. I don't like DLC's related to specific characters... the only DLC should be based on the protagonist, not his father, and not some fan favorite who may not be interesting to the entire fan base. Forgive my harsh tone, but DLC's like Leliana's Song come to mind. I know some people love her, but I can't stand her, and I don't want to see yet another DLC about some character I don't give a damn about.

And to people who think it's cool to resurrect characters just because you didn't kill them? That's selfish. If anything, they shouldn't be giving us those options in the first place. Try to look at the world from somebody else's perspective once in a while.

I don't get what's the reason for being so harsh... you don't want it, you don't buy it. Easy enough, isn't it? 
I don't think we can say we're "being selfish" just for asking for something we'd like to buy.

I agree, completely. Even though Anders may have been killed in some playthroughs, most people I know, for instance, have played the game at least twice, and have chosen to let him live in their other games. Separating Anders from Justice would be interesting quest for anyone. We could visit the (1) Terviter Imperium; (2) the Anderfels; (3) the Fade; or tons of new locations! More battles, more codexes, more character development! What's so bad about that?

[phantomdragoness]

VenetianLunacy wrote...

I agree, completely. Even though Anders may have been killed in some playthroughs, most people I know, for instance, have played the game at least twice, and have chosen to let him live in their other games. Separating Anders from Justice would be interesting quest for anyone. We could visit the (1) Terviter Imperium; (2) the Anderfels; (3) the Fade; or tons of new locations! More battles, more codexes, more character development! What's so bad about that?

THIS is why we need an Anders DLC. Right here. Listen to this one.

[Ninche]

Ohh I can't believe this thread existed for so long without me knowing about it!

I would pay anything EA asks for some more Anders. Hated or loved he provoked so much emotional involvement and sparkled so much political debates; his impact on players is just remarkable. His complexity as a character is something so hard to achieve in any story, especially in video game lore. Getting rid of him completely will be downright foolish, in my opinion. Also, he did almost single headedly change the world, or set great events in motion – a lot more than Hawke him/herself, he should be an important figure in what is to come.
I would personally like to get some more clarity on the whole Anders/Justice merge as well. He tends to contradict himself a lot in the game, especially if you compare the information he gives you in a rivalmance with friendmance.
I have these speculations that Anders might be immune to tranquillity – since he’s got a piece of the Fade living inside of him – he managed to bring emotion back to Karl just by being near. Or perhaps tranquillity would separate him from Justice? Or perhaps I am totally wrong and it would just kill him.
Personally, I would love any DLC that shows us some of Hawke and Anders’ lives during their happy relationship period – the two years after their first night together, just because the whole romance is so dark I need something good to hold on to. Also some resolution at the end would be nice – what happens with Anders’ mind after he runs away with Hawke? Is Vengeance satisfied for now or gone forever? Is Justice going to slowly take over his mind completely until there’s nothing left or have they merged together so completely there is literally no more Justice? The lack of answers to these questions has kept me steadily depressed ever since I finished the game. If you can hear me game developers give us some answers – without an end there can be no peace!

[Pendral]

While some people don't like a DLC for just one event like saving Anders, How much different was Witchhunt for that?  Unless you romanced Morrigan, it really didn't do anything for you by resolving anything or accomplishing something unless you wanted to jump Finn.  Morrigan didn't really have any problem you could help her with unless you wanted to leave with her.

Anders has a HUGE problem, and so does Justice, as 'he' was a very cool character too and he's as missing from DA2 as Awakenings!Anders.

Wynne, certainly showed that killing someone who truly bonded with a spirit was not necessarily fatal.  She seemed to rez herself late game. And Justice/Vengeance would be far more likely to meddle than Faith.  And since that many deaths from someone who'd been a good spirit healer and no grudge in Awakenings, he was lobotomized somehow before chapter1 DA2 even if that is before Awakenings... 

If they want a world with hard choices and consequences, there is also drama if someone has to deal with consequences of a stupid choice.  Almost infinitely harder for something as dumb as what he did, but shouldn't anyone have one second chance after a mistake.  Should someone be haunted for something they regret, admit they were wrong, won't do the like again, and work to do right even when it's hard?  I'd buy it, I got Witchhunt, despite my doubts and it didn't do much for me.  But the cost was lower, so it wasn't too bad.

[ekurian]

YES PLEASE.

I vote epilogue DLC, gap year DLC, extra sexy scenes DLC...

I'd spend so much money on that bloody man ><!

[MoMan313]

Why of freaking coarse!! Anything That will have me and my best apostate friend running the mages war/revolution/freedom TOGETHER!!! MUWAHAHAHAH!