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[Mistress Tasharra]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't actually have much of an interest in "freeing" or "separating" Anders and Justice. I loved both those characters in Awakening, and adored Anders in DAII as well, but personally, I don't think there's any way to reverse what he and Justice did.

I'm pretty damned sure that they are so fused together not even death would part them, and isn't that an interesting thought?

If anything, I would see Anders' "redemption" as fully mastering what he's become. No matter how you look at it, Anders is doomed. He's a Grey Warden, and he will have to submit to the calling in another 20 years (by the end of DAII) give or take a year. This is assuming he lives that long.

A far more likely possibility is that Justice will take full control, and the person Anders was will be lost the demon within, and we'll have to put him out of his misery, or someone will, at least.

Anyways, I'm rambling. Point being was that, I'd like for Anders to find some peace in mastering the monster he is before his inevitable doomed death. I fully believe he wanted to die a Martyr after what he did, but as Wynne said, "Love is selfish", and so is my Hawke.

Modifié par Mistress Tasharra, 08 avril 2011 - 06:58 .

[Nimrodell]

It is actually possible to make Anders DLC for all players and to stay on the right track without any retcon of choices made in DA2 (and that DLC could be even hole-filler for both DAO and DA2). The main plot could be actually hunting Anders but with two different starts (just like DAO several starting versions).

1st start version - romanced Anders, safeguarded him and left Kirkwall with him (can be applied for both frindship or rival that did unexpected for love). Our Hawke is starting search for Anders that just vanished one night after yet another Justice's display of power (Justice didn't agree with some Hawke's decision and broke through again as Vengeance). Hawke is cought in midst of war, trying to stay low profile (not knowing that Seekers are looking for her/him with good intentions) and trying to find Anders. Search for him takes Hawke to Fereldan again, to Dragon Bone Wastes (or any other place where active Eluvian could be found - Hawke thinks to track Anders that way - idea maybe gotten from Merril). There Hawke meets Flemeth again and openly asks for help, to find her/his love and to find a way to separate Justice from Anders. Flemeth feeds Hawke with bitter pill - there are only three ways how to sort that situation and none of 'em is pleasant. First - kill Anders but then his body must be turned to ashes so Justice can't revive him and can be trapped into some sort of talisman or even better blood vial (seen 'em with Revenants and Arcane Warrior in DAO) so he doesn't posses anyone or anything else.

Second way is for Hawke to battle Anders and when the time is right, Justice/Vengeace emerges, Hawke needs to trap Justice in herself/himself. Ofc, before that Hawke needs to do some ancient ritual to split her/his sould thus making sort of soul prison. In the ancient times straglers of Arlathan elves were using that ritual to battle Tevinter mages - there can be even connection to those who escaped to Cadash thaig and to beginnings of golem idea, something like metempsychosis. But that has its great perils, Hawke will suffer 'cause Justice will scratch and violate its soul prison and Hawke can be damaged, turned into Vengeance or even become crazed or even something like tranquil. Anders is finally free, Hawke pays the price for him. Subplot of this can be - Hawke can use blood magic to augment soul prison, enslave Justice to become more powerful and either stay with Anders or kill him. Hawke as an new type of abomination.

Third way - same as the second way but Hawke can choose to die (asks from one of hers/his companions to strike her/him when the time is right). Ofc, body can't be left or buried, body needs to be burnt or maybe even petrified, put in stone prison - just like that Tevinter Statue in the Circle or those Avvarian warriors. This is sort of like Grey Warden martyr ending and there can be even awesome tragic scene at the end between Hawke and Anders - last show of ultimate love for Anders, thus proving Hawke's words to Anders before his betrayal - There's nothing more important than love.

2nd start version (Hawke killed Anders either as rival or a friend) - just like Wynne, Anders got up again, but he's more Vengeance and he's wreaking havoc, judging and giving his justice around. Hunt starts and then it goes like it is written above. There could be awesome finishing touches if Hawke and Anders were rivals. In this version someone from the Chantry finds Hawke and employs him/her.

And for tha last fight even Fade can be used as sort of a second phase of encounter - just like that switching between Fade phases in Golems DLC. So it is possible to actually make good and plausable DLC for all players, 'cause we have roots, good roots in story so far.

[sassperella]

Balthamoss wrote...

Eollodwyn wrote...
I'm not sure Anders is the most disliked, I think he's just the most polarizing.  I know there was a thread out there that made up the numbers based on posters' responses and it turned out that Anders was about as popular as Fenris, which left him in the middle of the characters, more or less.  Granted, that's not a perfect method, but if Anders were really that unpopular the numbers should have been different.

As for importance, you're going to have a hard time arguing that Anders wasn't important to the story.

He sure does play a very important part in the story - they needed a catalyst for the coming war in the next game and Anders gave just that, so he served his purpose.
I just don't see what they could do interesting with him anymore, especially since he's dead in many playthroughs.
As for popularity : look at the "most hated companion" - threads, Anders is named more often than any other character. And since you compare with Fenris : as of today, Anders' thread has about 700 pages and 75 000 hits, while Fenris' has 1440 pages and approaches 430 000 hits, I don't know how representative that is, but it doesn't give the impression that Anders is equally as popular... 

Look at the date the threads were created........ The Anders thread is half the size of the Fenris one in one month. The Fenris one has been out four months.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Iles wrote...

The idea of Anders-Vengeance antagonizing Hawke could be awesome, but only if they give him a chance of redemption, which is the main reason why I'd like an Anders DLC.

About the love-hate Anders topic related to some Anders DLC, my two cents.
I do understand that most people hate him because they relate fiction terrorism with real life one and I don't blame them for that.
I do also understand that writers needed a catalyst for the incoming war and Anders was the perfect victim.
What I don't understand is why people keep saying there's nothing to do with him anymore, when there would be tons of things yet to discover about him and his bond with Justice.
I demand for a way to redeem him, because though there are people who didn't like him in Awakening too, he was a good man back there and he deserves a way to be repayed for all the good things he did (like helping refugees for free, even if that meant draining himself out of mana).
Justice too deserves to be back to his former spirit self, and not that twisted version that he became with Vengeance.
He may now be psyco and single-minded, but I can't consider him "evil" and given that even the most evil foes often get a chance of redemption, why can't he?

I vote for this statement to be made Prime Minister! (Or President, whichever you prefer)

[pimple]

I saw the words "Anders" and "proposal" right beside each other and swooned a bit.

[phantomdragoness]

pimple wrote...

I saw the words "Anders" and "proposal" right beside each other and swooned a bit.

Hard not to. You should have seen me when Anders said "our children" at the end of Act 3. I giggled like a school girl.

[Bekkael]

phantomdragoness wrote...

pimple wrote...

I saw the words "Anders" and "proposal" right beside each other and swooned a bit.

Hard not to. You should have seen me when Anders said "our children" at the end of Act 3. I giggled like a school girl.

But it sucks you only get an endgame kiss in a rivalmance, where you make him admit he is wrong. That's so unfair. Friends deserve kisses too!

[phantomdragoness]

Bekkael wrote...

phantomdragoness wrote...

pimple wrote...

I saw the words "Anders" and "proposal" right beside each other and swooned a bit.

Hard not to. You should have seen me when Anders said "our children" at the end of Act 3. I giggled like a school girl.

But it sucks you only get an endgame kiss in a rivalmance, where you make him admit he is wrong. That's so unfair. Friends deserve kisses too!

It really does suck! Anders, snog me, damnit!

BIOWARE. ARE YOU READING THIS?! <3

[Bekkael]

I support snog DLC.

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Bekkael wrote...

I support snog DLC.

All who support the snog DLC say "aye"!

AYE!!!

[phantomdragoness]

AYE!

[AnimeAngel90]

AYE!

I don't think we'll get Anders DLC though - Gaider has said that if you stabbed him, he's actually dead. Which makes me a sad puppy (obviously I didn't kill him, but because the option is there....no dlc. SADFAIS)

[Ninche]

AYE!

I don't mind if the Anders snog DLC is pre-End of Act 3

Hell, I'd buy a DLC that fills that fade-to-black moment at the estate in the beginning of Act 3

[Dreaming-in-Shadow]

Ninche wrote...

AYE!

I don't mind if the Anders snog DLC is pre-End of Act 3

Hell, I'd buy a DLC that fills that fade-to-black moment at the estate in the beginning of Act 3

To be honest, I wouldn't mind a DLC that's not even DA2 related at all. (Not going to happen now, but still...)
Maybe a DLC regarding Anders past and his escape attempts or something...

Or his time in the Wardens building up to the agreement between Anders and Justice (with extra ausement from Oghren and Nathaniel (and possibly the others))

Still, post-DA2 would be preferable...
Or during. Fill the blanks! Maybe during the three years between Act 2 and 3, Anders had some Templar-related issues that were part of some larger plot that (while being foiled with the gladly given/forced assistance of Hawke) fueled Ander's need for the chantry-must-die scheme.

Modifié par Dreaming-in-Shadow, 10 avril 2011 - 12:43 .

[Iles]

I'd prefer something post DA2 for all the reasons I already pointed out in this thread
Yeah, I'm obsessed with redemption just as much as Anders is obsessed with freedom for mages... 

Modifié par Iles, 14 avril 2011 - 01:47 .

[MoMan313]

D: I am too... hell.. I'm obessed with ANY new DLC... T___T

[ozonemania]

Anders DLC is indeed possible.

Since this whole story is a recount by Varric to Cassandra, any detail in the game about a character's fate could be a fabrication.

For example, Varric could have told the Seekers that Anders was dead to protect him, or obscure some unrevealed outcome.

I'm an Anders fan, so I'm hoping he'll show up in future DLCs and expansions.

Not sure if players would feel 'cheated' by using this method of turning a story around for future content. Basically anything in DA2 could be up for grabs since this is Varric's version of a story. Would you?

Modifié par ozonemania, 16 avril 2011 - 06:29 .

[Infaela]

Gaider has said that Anders is dead if you killed him, so I don't think they'd pull a Varric lied on that. That being said, there are a number of ways they could pursue some closure to his story that wouldn't necessarily negate the murder-knifers club decision. For instance, if he's becoming all Justice all the time (either because you killed Anders or because the passage of time just goes that way) and you have to "save" him somehow.

Personally, I want some kind of closure to Anders' story, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with anything they put out. If they let you find a way to achieve a happy ending I'd feel cheated out of my tragedy, but if they force you to either kill him again or continue the tragic decline status quo that you get if you spare him, well, that wouldn't be any different from what we have now.

[Ninche]

The way I see it, maybe if there is an Anders DLC you'd either get him alive if you spared him or a Justice driven Anders-corpse. (Just typing that freakes me out) But I'd take what I can get.
Also that way you could get Justice as a companion in future DLC.

As for Anders killing lots of innocent people - he also saved hundreds over the course of 7 years of free healing. The way I see it, you can either accept that you are human and be emotional and subjective about your decisions and choose to be selfish and loyal only to the people you love. Or you can strive to be ultimately just which means that you should leave all emotional attachment behind and see people as numbers - without giving anyone importance. Therefore, if Anders saved, let's say, 700 over 7 years you could argue he is more allowed to blow up 100 innocents than Hawke is to run around executing randoms that stand in her/his way.

[berelinde]

ozonemania wrote...

... Since this whole story is a recount by Varric to Cassandra, any detail in the game about a character's fate could be a fabrication.

For example, Varric could have told the Seekers that Anders was dead to protect him, or obscure some unrevealed outcome.

... Not sure if players would feel 'cheated' by using this method of turning a story around for future content. Basically anything in DA2 could be up for grabs since this is Varric's version of a story. Would you?

**** no! I would not feel cheated in the slightest. The idea of Varric lying to protect Anders gives me a serious case of the warm and fuzzies.

That said, I am not optimistic. As much as I adore Anders, statistics show that he is far from a popular companion. Yes, a lot of people like him, but a lot of people don't, too. I doubt that the number of fans squeeing over his return would exceed those whining about his return from the Beyond.

This makes me sad. Leliana, who I detest, got her own DLC and a cameo in DA2 despite her (possible) death in DA:O. And now, with Anders, whom I love more than any character except Alistair or Varric, we have David Gaider confirming that if you kill him, he's really dead. Heartbreak.

And about Anders killing "hundreds of people," that's nonsense. How many people were ever in that Chantry at one time? Grand Cleric Elthina, Mother Petrice, three random sisters, the guy praying to overcome his prostitute fetish, and the woman trying to arrange her daughter's wedding. That's seven. Compare that to the dozens of innocent mages the templars slaughter during the game, especially in the cutscene before the Gallows Courtyard. Compare that number with the hundreds of innocent mages who will be slaughtered as a result of the Rite of Annulment. No wonder the Circles revolted.

Modifié par berelinde, 19 avril 2011 - 11:23 .

[Ninche]

berelinde wrote...

ozonemania wrote...

... Since this whole story is a recount by Varric to Cassandra, any detail in the game about a character's fate could be a fabrication.

For example, Varric could have told the Seekers that Anders was dead to protect him, or obscure some unrevealed outcome.

... Not sure if players would feel 'cheated' by using this method of turning a story around for future content. Basically anything in DA2 could be up for grabs since this is Varric's version of a story. Would you?

**** no! I would not feel cheated in the slightest. The idea of Varric lying to protect Anders gives me a serious case of the warm and fuzzies.

That said, I am not optimistic. As much as I adore Anders, statistics show that he is far from a popular companion. Yes, a lot of people like him, but a lot of people don't, too. I doubt that the number of fans squeeing over his return would exceed those whining about his return from the Beyond.

This makes me sad. Leliana, who I detest, got her own DLC and a cameo in DA2 despite her (possible) death in DA:O. And now, with Anders, whom I love more than any character except Alistair or Varric, we have David Gaider confirming that if you kill him, he's really dead. Heartbreak.

It's true that there's alot of hate for Anders but I think for every hater there is a person who didn't particularly love him but who understood where he came from and enjoyed the drama he created. I think quite alot of people like that would enjoy more of Anders. 

And well, the way Gaider said "he's quite dead" just summons an image of a zombie Anders in my head. In an eventual Anders DLC you should be able to get either living Anders or Justice in Anders' body - with essentially exactly the same lines and everything - one of them just glows and the other doesn't. Also, same voice recording - they'll just add the jusice voice effect over it for those who knifed anders. ^^ 

[Saephy]

Yes please, DLC to "fix" Anders!
I went through most of act III thinking I could do just that, only to get slapped in the face - "Hope answered with... nothing".
At least give us a proper conclusion to Hawke/Anders relationship (platonic, but especially romantic) because as it stands it feels... unfinished.

[silver-crescent]

Saephy wrote...

Yes please, DLC to "fix" Anders!
I went through most of act III thinking I could do just that, only to get slapped in the face - "Hope answered with... nothing".
At least give us a proper conclusion to Hawke/Anders relationship (platonic, but especially romantic) because as it stands it feels... unfinished.

They all do though. I mean, Hawke stays with the respective LI, but it's not like we know what happens to them in the following years at all.

[BlueMew]

I'd like to 'fix' Anders as well, sure, by pulling Justice out of him or having him master himself (even better? Nice suggestion), but please have a 'happy' ending as well this time?
Because I really, really feel not only for Anders, but also for poor Hawke. Yes, s/he gets to be Champion, but pretty much everything else in his/her life goes incredibly and tragically wrong.

[berelinde]

BlueMew wrote...

I'd like to 'fix' Anders as well, sure, by pulling Justice out of him or having him master himself (even better? Nice suggestion), but please have a 'happy' ending as well this time?
Because I really, really feel not only for Anders, but also for poor Hawke. Yes, s/he gets to be Champion, but pretty much everything else in his/her life goes incredibly and tragically wrong.

Do want!

I'd really, really like to have a post-save DLC that lets you "cure" Anders. It would be so cool. We could go to Tevinter, research the particulars, overcome obstacles and possibly fight magisters, solve puzzles, and do all kinds of cool RP stuff. It would be awesome. And for those that hate Anders (and I am firmly NOT) in that camp, it would be an opportunity for Anders/Justice to see firsthand what happens when magic is misused. Everybody would be happy.