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[Darian Tylmare]

More akin to communists because the Islam doesn't prohibit ambition.
The socialists goal, which was the foundation of communism, was to create a society with total social equality. Since this is closer to the Quns "eveybody has their place" I would say communists.

[KenKenpachi]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

Hmm, I see the Chantry as being closer to Islam, the Qunari strike me as more of Communist confucianism.

In terms of theology, not at all. Muslims would say it has way too much idolatry. They'd think that Andraste being the "bride of the Maker" is ridiculous. And they'd think that the Maker does not fit their idea of "Tawhid", the absolute oneness and perfection of God.

In terms of political / social structure, I think they are very dissimilar. The Chantry is an independent religious order with political, military and economic power (lyrium trade). In Islamicate societies, there is no such thing as "The Mosque", as in a political, social and military order / organization. It was tied to the state. The religious scholars ('ulama) were part of the state (loosely, it was flexible), and it applied Sharia' law. There was no religious police or military perse, like the Templars (or the Inquisition and Templars and others in rl).  The only semblance of that is the police the Caliph al-Ma'mun put in place and that was to hunt down literralist scholars who disagreed with this rational and Greek inspired interpretations.

The only similarity is that Andraste was also a military leader (well it's really Maferath), like Prophet Muhammad. But other than that, I don't see much similarities.

*shakes fist* Damn you David Xanatos! DAMN YOU!!!

Well yeah I ment more so the whole "There is only one maker, etc" they had going on, like if the male female roles were reversed.

So I take that back, how about Middle Ages Europe Christianity? Not much in common with Modern Christianity thats for sure. But yes how about what I said on the Qunari, I still think it fits them rather well.

[Statulos]

Darian Tylmare wrote...

More akin to communists because the Islam doesn't prohibit ambition.
The socialists goal, which was the foundation of communism, was to create a society with total social equality. Since this is closer to the Quns "eveybody has their place" I would say communists.

Communism, in its various forms does not promote social inmobility. In fact, most of the greatests soviet leaders (military and civilian) come from very low stratum of society.

People changed their roles on life a lot and that is totally not what the Qun stands for.

[Basher of Glory]

KenKenpachi wrote...

So I take that back, how about Middle Ages Europe Christianity? Not much in common with Modern Christianity thats for sure. But yes how about what I said on the Qunari, I still think it fits them rather well.

I'd say no.

The medieval clergy was everything the Qunari hated:

1) Corrupt to the bone
2) mafia-style protection rackets: They sold letters of indulgence to the commoners with the blatant threat, they are condemned to hell when they don't buy
3) Nothing about the basic principles of christianity, because they just aspired after more might and more influence in Europe, at all costs
4) Perverted zealots, the so called "Inquisitors", encouraged the people to denounce each other as "witches" or "obsessed", so they could torture the denounced ones and finally burn them at the stake. By modern standards this alone fullfilled the facts of a crime against humanity. Some templers in the  game are designed this way, IMO.
5) - ... Countless other crimes; tons of books about this exist.

I'm not a friend of the Qunari, but as far as I know, they won't fit in any of the above points, right?

Modifié par Baher of Glory, 16 mars 2011 - 09:23 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Baher.
I think he meant that the Chantry is like the Middle Age European Church.

[Basher of Glory]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Baher.
I think he meant that the Chantry is like the Middle Age European Church.

Oh, then I agree 100%   

[huggingtonbear]

The Qunari have a place for everyone and put everyone in their place. I would not know a society analgous to that one, even communist/socialist countries you pretty much had the freedom to determine what path you wanted to follow (communism/socialism is mostly about the distribution of resources)

The Qunari are kind of like an insect colony (in terms of organization).

Modifié par huggingtonbear, 16 mars 2011 - 09:43 .

[Invalidcode]

Qun (The way of Qun) are like tools, the each have a role, your 'choice' is to accept it or not.
You don't choose, you are what you are and you need to perform your role, just like tools.

Communist: Nah not even close, Qun got no concept of equality. And Qun have different ranks, which is against the idea of communist imo.

[Raokin]

I can't say that I know enough about philosophy or political ideologies to place them in that regard, but superficially they always reminded me of the traditional stereotype of Native Americas: physically imposing, stoic, ruthless.

[AtreiyaN7]

I would lean towards communism as a description if I really had to pick between the two.

[Lianaar]

How about predestination? One of the catholic schools claiming that you are predestined by God by birth what you'll be, so no matter what you do, you'll be what God made you be.
Thus no point fighting your stance in life. Accept it, as it is the will of a greater entity.

I do find the Qun appealing in some aspects, but if I have to pick a social form they are analog of, it wouldn't be human: bees, ants.
By birth they are put into class they fit in, and if they don't, they die. They have their uses and only through the fulfilling of their role can they sustain their people.

They just have a nice rulebook about it

[Lianaar]

Also, when such ideologies are born, they usually address an issue that arrises and the answers they deliver is determined by the circumstances of the birth of such documents. It would be interesting to find out a situation where the birth of Qun seems to be the only logical alternative.

[Clonedzero]

females run the priesthood in the Qun right?
the reason theres no females in DA2 is because it was a miltary boat and it was the army so it's all men since only males are in the qunari military.

[eaKephas]

Considering the prevelance of athiesm in Marxist communists, and considering that the Qunari have a religious doctrine that they follow, I'd say they have more in common with militant Islam.

[Emperor Iaius I]

The Chantry also has its opposite in Minrathous. The Imperial Chantry is the equivalent of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the powerlessness of the Black Divine is akin to the caesaropapism of the Eastern Empire, where the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople was (mostly. . . usually) subservient to the Emperor.

[fluorine7]

With first hand communism experience (born and raised in Mainland China), I can tell you Qunaris has nothing similar to communism. The idea wasn't occurred to me until I see this post. Communists don't "assign" people into roles, as "evil" as westerns sees us, we do have choices to go to different fields. We have similar school system, from elementary to high school to universities, where you're free to choose your major and later occupation.

During the 70s and 80s, the university largely responsible for job placement for graduates according to their major. But you can switch jobs if you want to, although many people decided to stay with the placement because it is what they studied in university. Say you study engineering in college and was placed in a factory as an engineer with a good pay and government provided house, there's no reason to change. that sounds like a good deal to me.

What was difficult during that era is to switch field, say you study engineering but decided to become a journalist, that's where things becomes tricky. First, you can't go back to school, university only accept high school graduates. Second, you need to file report to the government in order to switch. But even so, it is possible to switch (with my dad being an example), so it's not that you're settled for life.

So no, communism is very different from Qunari believes.

Also, I saw this with a lot of western, China under Mao control is NOT communism. At least not in the sense of Marx first introduced it. Mao twisted it to fit his own desire to rule the country, he's just like all other Chinese feudalism Emperors.

[Invalidcode]

fluorine7 wrote...

With first hand communism experience (born and raised in Mainland China), I can tell you Qunaris has nothing similar to communism. The idea wasn't occurred to me until I see this post. Communists don't "assign" people into roles, as "evil" as westerns sees us, we do have choices to go to different fields. We have similar school system, from elementary to high school to universities, where you're free to choose your major and later occupation.

During the 70s and 80s, the university largely responsible for job placement for graduates according to their major. But you can switch jobs if you want to, although many people decided to stay with the placement because it is what they studied in university. Say you study engineering in college and was placed in a factory as an engineer with a good pay and government provided house, there's no reason to change. that sounds like a good deal to me.

What was difficult during that era is to switch field, say you study engineering but decided to become a journalist, that's where things becomes tricky. First, you can't go back to school, university only accept high school graduates. Second, you need to file report to the government in order to switch. But even so, it is possible to switch (with my dad being an example), so it's not that you're settled for life.

So no, communism is very different from Qunari believes.

Also, I saw this with a lot of western, China under Mao control is NOT communism. At least not in the sense of Marx first introduced it. Mao twisted it to fit his own desire to rule the country, he's just like all other Chinese feudalism Emperors.

^^True. Mao held the most blame, but all the other higher ups are to blame, droven the whole country literally crazy during that 10 years. OH that would be close to what happens to force the way of Qun to normal people now I think about it.

Let me fill in some,  communism itself isn't evil at all. But it is impossible to execution within Human. Instead of the common concept that communism is just 'Everyone share the commomwealth', more accurate one of the core idea of communism is:

1. Everyone pull their own weight to their fullest
2. And then everyone share the wealth.

2 can't happen without 1, but we all know No.1 will never happen with Human. So rulers/people with power just twist and abuse it and then you have the 'Evil' version of communism western world hate and afarid.

For people live under the rock, China is capitalism now.

Instead of compare Qun to human culture, they are more like a complex incert kingdom. For example Bees, ants. (Queen/workers/male/would be queen) You are what you are and you have your role until you die. Accpect and be success or refuse and die.

Modifié par Invalidcode, 16 mars 2011 - 11:46 .

[fluorine7]

Invalidcode wrote...

^^True. Mao held the most blame, but all the other higher ups are to blame, droven the whole country literally crazy during that 10 years. OH that would be close to what happens to force the way of Qun to normal people now I think about it.

Let me fill in some,  communism itself isn't evil at all. But it is impossible to execution within Human. Instead of the common concept that communism is just 'Everyone share the commomwealth', more accurate one of the core idea of communism is:

1. Everyone pull their own weight to their fullest
2. And then everyone share the wealth.

2 can't happen without 1, but we all know No.1 will never happen with Human. So rulers/people with power just twist and abuse it and then you have the 'Evil' version of communism western world hate and afarid.

For people live under the rock, China is capitalism now.

Instead of compare Qun to human culture, they are more like a complex incert kingdom. For example Bees, ants. (Queen/workers/male/would be queen) You are what you are and you have your role until you die. Accpect and be success or refuse and die.

WoW!!! Dude! This is probably THE most sensible thing I've heard about China since I moved to the US. 

And it is very true that current China is capitalism, state capitalistm to be more percise. 

I can't think of any social model that's similar to Qunaris. Although, I have difficulty understand that they don't have individual names. So what if you want something done, and you call "Sten! come and kill this monster!" and all theStens that heard your call come to do this one person job? that's kind of counter productive, isn't it? 

What if some guy made a mistake? and other's report on him, it'd be like "I'm Sten, Last night I saw Sten killed Sten in back alley while drunk".... that'd be confusing. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

fluorine7 wrote...
I can't think of any social model that's similar to Qunaris. Although, I have difficulty understand that they don't have individual names. So what if you want something done, and you call "Sten! come and kill this monster!" and all theStens that heard your call come to do this one person job? that's kind of counter productive, isn't it? 

What if some guy made a mistake? and other's report on him, it'd be like "I'm Sten, Last night I saw Sten killed Sten in back alley while drunk".... that'd be confusing. 

Since Sten refers to an officer of a certain division, I'd assume that the full name would be Sten of so and so.

Like Sten in Origins, could be called "Sten of the Berasaad". Or if there are sub-divisions within the Beresaad, then you mention that.

How are they supposed to memorize all this? I do not know. But it seems like the Qunari have higher IQ anyways

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 mars 2011 - 12:16 .

[DarthCrios]

The way i see it due to the time frame the Qunari are more parralel to the vikings with communist/socialist govt than muslim militants

-VIKINGS
much like the vikings back in the dark ages the Qunari effortlessly sweep along coastlands and were seen as heathens and brutes by the God following Europeans.
They also were completely unknown from the rest of Thedas until 300 years before the first game, and much like the vikings seemed to just appear with great strength and immediatly go on a warpath against the natives.
The Qunari also seem to be a mosly sea faring race, while we only expierence them on land it can be assumed that their ability to be so effective in war can be atributed partially to their brutallity and strength, such as the vikings, but also it can be assumed they have a sufficent, if not superior, knowledge of maritime technology just as the vikings had.

and the comunnist ideals has already been worked over already, so no input there

[fluorine7]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...



Since Sten refers to an officer of a certain division, I'd assume that the full name would be Sten of so and so.

Like Sten in Origins, could be called "Sten of the Berasaad". Or if there are sub-divisions within the Beresaad, then you mention that.

How are they supposed to memorize all this? I do not know. But it seems like the Qunari have higher IQ anyways

That kind of make sense, so it'd be like "Sten of third recon battalion, second class" or something more fanciful. Even though, each devision would have several people share the same rank with same duty. Then you still run into the problem with bunch of people sharing the same name, working the same job, probably living together as well. 

Daily life would be "Sten can you hand me that soap? oh, i mean you! no ,not you, you!!! you right next to the soap!!!" ....

[Archangel01]

Actually, I think more along ancient Chinese or Japanese societies.

[KenKenpachi]

Archangel01 wrote...

Actually, I think more along ancient Chinese or Japanese societies.

Thats more or less my opinion, the Qunari seem to be a mixture of cultures and movements. Some of the stated views are Marxist however, each acording to his need and etc...lulz I used to have a copy of the Manifisto around here. But anyways, on the topic of real nation states China just like the USSR have never been communist, minus in name, the DDR and parts of South East asia where far more than the two fathers of communisim. China has more in common with Facisim honestly, as being capitilistic, whith statist control, toped with a totalitarian government.  But on that note the closest real world goverment I've seen to attemp most of what the Qunari have done minus a bit here and there would have to be, the Khmer Rouge Under Pol Pot in Cambodia, and that was a total cluster ****, you can tell your doing bad when Vietnam decideds to kick your teeth in. So in that reguards not like the Qunari, honestly short of small scale or in the past I don't see humans able to do this.

Though Fuedal (maybe WW2) Japan are very good cases, with the value of swords, class decided at birth in many of Japans Era's, etc. But still its not even 100% alike. I think we'ld have to make a hodgepodge of idea's to bring out what the Qunari's ideal is.

[HarlequinKing]

Lianaar wrote...

How about predestination? One of the catholic schools claiming that you are predestined by God by birth what you'll be, so no matter what you do, you'll be what God made you be.
Thus no point fighting your stance in life. Accept it, as it is the will of a greater entity.

I believe you're actually referring to the Calvinist school of Reformation-era Protestant doctrine. That is very different.

I understand that there's a sort of predestination found in the writings of Saint Augustine of Hippo, but this is much more subtle than the Calvinist variety.

Modifié par HarlequinKing, 17 mars 2011 - 01:48 .