19 réponses à ce sujet

[Inujade]

Er, sorry, this might be a bit of a rant.

When I heard Anders was going to be in DA2 and romancable, I was pretty excited. He was my favorite character in Awakening, and I was looking forward to more cat-loving goodness.

Now, Anders is a HUGELY important character in DA2, very effective, very touching.

But he doesn't feel like the same Anders.

I know, I know....Gaider warned us he was going to be different. But c'mon; he LOOKS different, he SOUNDS different, his personality is completely over-hauled (with very very few references to his former self), his Grey Warden status is pretty much swept under the rug, and he doesn't even have Ser Pounce-a-Lot. Everything that made this character who he was has been removed or changed.

So my question is, why bother make this character Anders at all?  Wouldn't any other radical mage have fit the bill?

I could have lived with the complete personality overhaul if he at least had the same voice-actor...the new one does great with the material given to him, but it was too odd to try and reconcile this calm, smooth voice with the lively original.

Plus, why remove Ser Pounce-a-Lot? He was a soundbite of a meow! That's hardly difficult to program! Or he could have stayed in the clinic, if the whole cat-in-the-robes thing was too silly for the darker tone.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. If anyone thinks they can justify any of this, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[harktag]

I feel the exact same way. I as SO excited when I discovered that Anders was returning for DAII. Definitely my favorite companion in Awakening because of his humor, charm, and of course, Ser Pounce-a-lot. When Gaider warned us that he'd "not be the same Anders" he was before, I was hoping that it wasn't as extreme a change as people started to fear. After finishing the game, I have to say that those fears were true for me. Everything that made me fall in love with the character in the first place was stripped away. It left a very sour taste in my mouth - especially by the climax of the story.

I wanted to love Anders in this game. I really REALLY did try my hardest to love him again. I'm sorry, Jennifer, but Anders was ruined for me in this game. And that makes me so sad! :'(

Oh well... at least my warden still has Alistair!

[Eshaye]

I don't mind most of the changes, except for the lack of his former VA. The new actor is just not delivering the Ander's snark when those few lines do appear. That's what made Anders, Anders imo.

Honestly there's nothing to justify in why they picked him to be in DA2 and it's my impression it was all planned either before or during making Awakening, who he becomes is a good progression it's just a bit startling to see all these artistic changes too.

And seriously I could have done without Cullen if that meant have Ellis back as VA for Anders.

[mellifera]

As someone who was ambivalent about Anders before (the cat thing won him major points though), I like all the changes they made to his character, including the VA change. Then again, I kinda agree that I am not sure why it specifically had to be Anders who came back, but I'm not complaining as he ended up being pretty much my favorite.

[Trophonius]

I might be in the minority, but I thought his change in DA2 was a lot more bearable, if not better. Adam Howden delivered his emotions and intensity very well. The Justice/Vengeance angle gave more layer and intricacy to his character, which I felt was lacking in Awakening. He was too much of an Alistair clone facial and personality wise. At least in DA2, he gets a personality of his own and we ultimately discover his motives whereas Awakening didn't really provide opportunities to actually get to know him.

[SurelyForth]

All I can think is that they wanted to show players both sides of Anders' personality, but without cramming that character arc in one game. For one thing, it makes him more compellingly tragic for us to know he goes from being fairly good-natured about most things, vain but compassionate, and eccentric about his cat to what he is in DA2.

I think the only thing that really bothers me is his voice, because he sounds so much like every other generic NPC now and with Ellis he definitely stood out.

[fantasypisces]

At first I was shocked about the voice change, but Adam Howden really did nail it for me, and I want him in many future bioware projects to come (whether as Anders or another main companion). Yeah, he didn't deliver the snarky lines like the old Anders, but that's because it's not the old Anders!

Anyway, I do agree with others though, the change was so drastic that he was literally nothing like his original character. Occasionally, but very briefly and incredibly rare, you might see some of the old personality come through, but in the end I agree with others, a different character could have done the same thing.

I think the only real reason it was Anders is because he was a fan favorite, so it added more weight to his eventual actions, as opposed to joe-smoe-I'm-on-the-run-apostate. 

Modifié par fantasypisces, 16 mars 2011 - 04:09 .

[LastFadingSmile]

I was a bit put out by the voice at first; it took several hours for me to really start to appreciate it, and now I honestly prefer. It fits with his new darker personality; he sounds morose, melancholy...I don't think the character would have nearly the emotional impact with Ellis voicing him.

In general, I find the voice work in DA2 is a lot more...I guess, realistic is the word I want...than Origins was. I noticed this especially when Alistair showed up in all his kingly bravado; his character and voice sounded somehow cartoony to me in contrast to the rest of the characters in the game. Ellis's Anders is the same way, imo. Just a bit too animated for the style of game DA2 is.

In the end all the changes fit together nicely for me. I liked Anders in Awakening. I love Anders now. 

Modifié par Kolotosa, 16 mars 2011 - 04:55 .

[Jessihatt]

To be honest, I like the new voice actor a lot, going back to awakening, Anders just sounds wrong..
As for his new look, I think it's better and less "Alistair-y" which loads of people complained about in the first place. I think his personality is still there too, just buried, and you can see it sometimes.
Overall, I think it's a refined version of awakening Anders.
I missed Ser Pounce-a-lot, but the cat wouldn't have really fit in, I hope he's happy with his new master all the same!
Loved Anders then, and love him even more so now - even if he was a bit obsessed with the templars and had no Oghren banter to diffuse the situation

[Shepard Lives]

My take on the matter is that they picked Anders for the role of possessed pro-mage zealot exactly because he's nothing like his Awakening self.

Had he been a completely new character, I wouldn't have liked him much.
But to see Anders, the brilliant, charming, scene-stealing dude from DAA slowly break down and go insane... well, that broke my heart.

When he blew up the Chantry- scratch that, when he blew up the Chantry I was too angry to think coherently.
But when I finished the game, it slowly occurred to me that this more mature, strange, tormented and finally crazy Anders was the same Anders who playfully flirted with Nate and Velanna, who made me laugh out loud at several points in Awakening and who freaked out when I decided to raze Amaranthine.
And it was tragic, and beautifully terrible.

Bio had planned this, too. There's no way all those banters with Justice about spirits turning into demons were just a coincidence.

Modifié par Shepard Lives, 16 mars 2011 - 06:37 .

[Adynata]

Shepard Lives wrote...

My take on the matter is that they picked Anders for the role of possessed pro-mage zealot exactly because he's nothing like his Awakening self.

Had he been a completely new character, I wouldn't have liked him much.
But to see Anders, the brilliant, charming, scene-stealing dude from DAA slowly break down and go insane... well, that broke my heart.

When he blew up the Chantry- scratch that, when he blew up the Chantry I was too angry to think coherently.
But when I finished the game, it slowly occurred to me that this more mature, strange, tormented and finally crazy Anders was the same Anders who playfully flirted with Nate and Velanna, who made me laugh out loud at several points in Awakening and who freaked out when I decided to raze Amaranthine.
And it was tragic, and beautifully terrible.

Bio had planned this, too. There's no way all those banters with Justice about spirits turning into demons were just a coincidence.

You make a good point. It stands to reason that after 7 years Anders would "grow up" a bit, yet it's strange that he would have even considered playing host to Justice after saying in Awakening that he just wanted to run away from the whole issue.
The OP is right about the cat though. I don't see why the cat couldn't be in it. If the Grey Wardens made him give it away b/c it made him soft, but then he left the wardens, then why not go back and get the cat from his friend? Maybe Ser Pounce-a-lot would restore Anders to his former self...

[lornalove]

Yes - I don't mind the new voice actor, he is good at the depressing and romantic bits for sure, but it was just too much of a disconnect for me added on top of everything else. I had to keep reminding myself where Anders came from and what he was like before, and what Justice was like as well.

Modifié par lornalove, 16 mars 2011 - 06:49 .

[maselphie]

Here's why: they needed a mage uprising.
In Awakenings, they had a character that was staunchly against the Circle, and oddly, people liked him! Also in the same game was a character that chastised him for not helping mages if he cared about their struggle (Justice). They believed they needed these two point of views in their game all about Mages vs Templars. Instead of shoehorning the two of them in, they found a way to make both characters new and interesting, and merged their interests and usefulness. A tragic case of the Circle imprisoning someone, and the powerful need to right a wrong.

Part of why Anders was brought back has to be that fans liked him. But there is a reason why he was a companion, and not, say, Sigrun or Nathaniel. The conflict in this game was not the dwarves or nobility -- but mages/templars. There's also the problem that Anders could theoretically die at the end of Awakenings, so saving him with a spirit is a plausible catch-all.

There we go! All solved.

[highcastle]

I think there's a reason they used Anders and there's a reason he changed. We needed to see the difference between Anders pre-Justice and Anders post-Justice. We needed to see the toll it took on him, the ways it broke him. If they'd used just any old random character as this abomination who kick-started a war, many people would be inherently unsympathetic. But it's Anders. Most of us are familiar with him. He was sweet and joked around and always tried to do the right thing. Knowing where he came from makes the destination much more tragic.

[Inujade]

I agree with what all of you are saying about it being effective to see happy-go-lucky Anders fall so far...on an intellectual level. But on an emotional level, I just wasn't feeling that tragedy while I was playing, I had to think of it later. When the chantry blew up, I wasn't thinking "Oh geez, Anders, you were my warden's bro! What's happened to you?! D:" I was thinking "...dammit Anders! Everyone's going to blame me for this, you jerk."

In fact, I think they missed some really great dramatic oppurtunities. What if they'd made Anders much more like his original self in the beginning (but not entirely, that would be silly), and over time became the reclusive, tortured one we saw here? What it seems like here is tragic mage becomes...more tragic mage.

And Ser-Pounce-a-Lot! Imagine if he still had Ser-Pounce-a-Lot, who was clearly a loyal and loving cat. Then later, once Anders has become almost completely consumed by the Vengeance spirit, Ser-Pounce-a-Lot runs away. Perhaps with a parting hiss. That would signal the end of the Anders we knew in Awakening. Seriously, that cat could have been used in a lot of character developing ways (as it did in Awakening, to show he had a softer side) and it was just discarded in the most offhand way. Sigh.

Anyway, I really do love DA2 Anders, but I do think they could have done even more.

[happydictates]

Inujade wrote...
In fact, I think they missed some really great dramatic oppurtunities. What if they'd made Anders much more like his original self in the beginning (but not entirely, that would be silly), and over time became the reclusive, tortured one we saw here? What it seems like here is tragic mage becomes...more tragic mage.

Really wish they had done this. Not much time passed between DAO, Awakenings, and DA2 Act 1. They could have introduced him as similar to the sarcastic Anders from Awakenings in the beginning and then added the corruption as time passed between acts.

I hated not having the chance to kill him after he murdered the innocent mage girl in the lyrium smuggler tunnels. I played a mage who sympathized with mages and Anders, but took every chance I had to slay blood mages. I understand that he was crucial to the climax, but it went against everything my character stood for not to kill him right then and there. Once I saw he was just another abomination and no better than other crazed mages like Quentin, I was ready to rid the world of him.

I also dislike the game's only healer being a murderer and terrorist. I imagine the last bit of the game on my hard playthrough is going to be rough without my psychotic spirit healer. Being denied the chance to watch him bleed is not worth some easier battles, though. Guess I'll just stock up on loads of pots.

[Morning808]

I do like his new character but I really miss how he was in Awakening but there is more to his character now

[Myusha]

It showed the lengths and depravity of how he'd be willing to accomplish this goal.
Although I love Awakening Anders, DAII Anders brought us sorrow and insight that no other mage could other then possibly Wynne. But Wynne loves the Chantry, Morrigan and Velanna's hatred are easy to see....what more is there?

[highcastle]

Inujade wrote...

I agree with what all of you are saying about it being effective to see happy-go-lucky Anders fall so far...on an intellectual level. But on an emotional level, I just wasn't feeling that tragedy while I was playing, I had to think of it later. When the chantry blew up, I wasn't thinking "Oh geez, Anders, you were my warden's bro! What's happened to you?! D:" I was thinking "...dammit Anders! Everyone's going to blame me for this, you jerk."

I understand that, I do. For me, though, I was pitying Anders and grieving how far he'd fallen. 

In fact, I think they missed some really great dramatic oppurtunities. What if they'd made Anders much more like his original self in the beginning (but not entirely, that would be silly), and over time became the reclusive, tortured one we saw here? What it seems like here is tragic mage becomes...more tragic mage.

Again, I do think they showed him closer to his original self. Sure, he was still struggling with Justice, but there were moments of levity there. I also think you see more of his softer side if you romance him. I mean, his romance scenes in Act 2 are the perfect blend of steamy and sweet. I don't know how much of it you see if you don't romance him (as I've yet to roll a Hawke who doesn't fall for the crazy apostate), but I at least saw the decline.

Plus, if you read the codex entries that spawn after each transition between acts, you get more evidence about Anders losing his struggle with Justice.

[Darkannex]

Also, the short story explains alot I feel.
He was forced to give up Ser Pounce a Lot because it made him....weak? Soft.(affection not allowed)
He had a Templar warden put on him for constant monitoring. (how is that different than the circle?)
After he and justice merged, he was expelled from the wardens (which is just weird...I would have thought they'd have forced him into the deep roads for an early calling or something...rather than just kick him out).

What I want to know is how my Warden Commander let the Wardens get so screwed up. Heh. And why Anders didn't appeal to her for help. She would have kicked ass and taken names before she let that crap happen on her watch.