51 réponses à ce sujet

[efrgfhnm_]

They attempted to make the game simpler and more accessable, which, depsite what people seem to think here, was a very successful move leading to the best reviews of any bioware game and great sales. Here they have done the same thing, but not as well, the combat is immense, but the companions seem to be less prelevant then they are even in Mass Effect, the choices don't really effect much and the game goes downhill after Act 3. Seriously, I would have been much happier if Act 2 was twice as long and it ended there

[Parrk]

Alessar1288 wrote...

I don't get why people bring up Jade Empire as being good bioware. I always found it boring.

Boring?  Why Sir, that game is unrivaled in it applicability as a testing method to guage the resilience of left mouse buttons!

[SilentWolfie]

Indeed. Jade empire was pretty flawed, and ME2 is an absolute overall improvement over ME1. Even if I don't explain why, the overall users rating on both games should explain why so.

[Rasputin]

I know there is the consept of magic being like a sword and depending on what you do with that sword you can have a good or evil outcome - BUT - in this case, blood magic involves bargaining or aligning oneself with deamons.  potentially allowing them to work their magic through you or assist you with magic....
Deamons are bad.  Eventually, no matter what, bad things are going to happen.  Comsorting with deamons is bad.  Therefore, I believe that blood magic is inherantly bad.
Which is why I tried not to bring Merrill with me and tried to dissuade her from her path at every opportunity.

Which is why:  SPOILER

(I was upset that I got railroaded into helping her no matter the choices if I discussed the mirror with her and then got railroaded into defending myself from good elves.)

EDIT ok I cant find the cool spoiler thingy to insert that properly.

Modifié par Rasputin, 16 mars 2011 - 05:10 .

[IanPolaris]

*sigh* Consorting with spirits in general is bad. Merill makes that point crystal clear when talking about Anders. She said (to the best of my recollection), "There is no such thing as a good spirit. All spirits are dangerous. I am sorry Anders found that out too late."

However, bloodmagic is nothing more than the use of life-energy instead of stamina to cast spells. Nothing more. It's a tool like any other. A very dangerous tool to be sure and one that no every mage should have access to, but that doesn't make it evil.

-Polaris

[Parrk]

You certainly can avoiding fighting the Dalish, at least I have on 3 games so far.

I do not think that blood magic necessitates consorting with demons. Blood magic is the proverbial slippery slope, an alternate (to mana) power source that is pount-for-pound between 2 and 6 times as powerful.

What you do with that power, or what you will do to get more of it is the part that bites most users in the A**.

You can use blood to cast an elemental spell, or a spirit one.

Aside from being more powerful of a fuel, blood magic is free-form to a degree. This is where the demons come in because of the huge power requirements.

It is the difference between reciting a spell verbally to achieve a known outcome and specific amonts of mana depletion versus using what can be a more plentiful, efficient and readily-available power source to do whatever you can imagine.

Therein lies the draw.

[eye basher]

I didn't do any of the Quests this guy is talking about there a waste off time and frankly don't really matter in the large scheme of things.

[RosaAquafire]

Alessar1288 wrote...

I don't get why people bring up Jade Empire as being good bioware. I always found it boring.

Because opinions are subjective and different people like different things. OMG, REALLY?

I didn't like JE, I didn't like BG1 (but positively loved BG2), thought ME1 and 2 both had astoundingly good stories but were near unplayable for gameplay reasons, KOTOR is decent but overrated, thought NWN had a boring story, absolutely loved DA:O, DA2 is my favourite BW game to date.

I guarantee 95% of people will disagree with at least one thing in that post, because different people like different things.

If majority opinion created truth, Twilight would be the best book series ever written.

[KAAurious]

Fact: Companies simply cannot win anymore with sequels. People will **** if it changes too much and they will **** if they don't change enough.

My personal opinion? I hope DA2 was an experiment. Since it seems to be one of their larger franchises now without an expiration date on it. (See: ME being a trilogy)

[bobo_minky]

Pwnsaur wrote...

This is a topic I posted in the General discussion area. Someone mentioned I should post it here so the 'right' people may read it. I hope it captures the thoughts of some of my fellow BioWare friends here...

Very well written and very true. I agree with everything you've said here, as well as your sentiment that Bioware can do better, and that by speaking up as Gamers and Consumers maybe we can help prod them in the right direction.

[Chthonic]

DA2 feels a bit rushed, but even so it is a great game to rival DA:O.

Give patches some time to iron out the bugs and, depending where they go with the DLC, it has the potential to be the better work of the two, imo.

The companion quests are more in depth (despite the lack of a cool gift system), the side quests lead to very intense moments if you choose to do them (Lost in Dreams), the scope is smaller and more focused (which is a difference, but not a failing), the main character is more human and prone to hardship, you see first hand the horror of the blight for those who are not grey wardens themselves, etc.

I'm hoping DLC creates an Act 4 instead of a bunch of random side-stuff like in DA1. If they do that and tie Acts 1-3 together into a more cohesive whole... best. game. ever.

[White_Buffalo94]

Pwnsaur wrote...
Gone is the cool little story about a Dwarf girl arguing with her merchant father about studying magic at the circle tower. Gone is the waitress being subjugated by her domineering and rude boss, who has dreams of owning the bar herself one day. Gone is the Dalish Elf who is trying to cure her sick animal and needs the calm words of someone with an understanding of nature. Gone... All gone... But WHY? All these things are what make the story personal, special, and our own. WHY have they been erased?

The quests.... What happened.... I run through buildings picking up random objects that I telepathically navigate back to their owners who DON'T EVEN SPEAK TO ME when I inexplicably return them. This is such an obvious lack of love and effort put into the game. The whole world is so incredibly callous and disconnected, almost completely ignoring the character and our story in every way. We are just funnelled from one quest to the next, not leaving our mark or affecting anyone in any discernible way. It makes me so sad...

These reasons, paired with my 4 negatives from another post are my only complaints about the game actually:

1) Reused levels with cement doors to hide the illusion of reused levels. I don't mind them being reused, but it was excessively so.
2) Gathering ingredients. I like the fact that you find a source and merchants know where to find it, but I would rather you still have to make your own potions, just all the ingredients are available at one place.
3) Skills are gone. No persuasion or trap making or anything like that. Hopefully they bring it back in future games.
4) Massive waves of fodder enemies that just swarm over and over, makes battles repetitive and the fact that they jump out of walls. Demons and undead coming out of the ground or nowhere is fine, but not beings native to Thedas such as Mabari or people.


I happen to like the characters, even the fact that they decide what to wear and you don't get to play their dresser. I liked the story, the only problem with it being that the ending felt like how Origins did for me: I already missed it.

You do have good points in what you wrote though

[someon7x]

White_Buffalo94 wrote...

4) Massive waves of fodder enemies that just swarm over and over, makes battles repetitive and the fact that they jump out of walls. Demons and undead coming out of the ground or nowhere is fine, but not beings native to Thedas such as Mabari or people.

There's actually monster closets in the chantry! It's like the game that modern game design forgot.

[Pwnsaur]

yogolol wrote...

Uh did you even play the side quests? There are lots of these quests, do you decide to help the man find his wife even though he clearly doesn`t care about her? Do you decide to send Faryniel (that dreamer mage) to the circle or with the Dalish? Do you give the mages hiding in the cave over to the templars or help them escape? These moments came out, I guess you just ignored them.

I'm sorry that you misunderstood my post. Anyone not designated with a quest marker, or featured in a cinematic does not talk to you. In every previous BioWare game you would stumble upon dozens of side quests all over the place. Sometimes you would have to have a high persuasion or charisma skill to uncover problems and sometimes it would depend on what you said specifically. Of course DA2 has sidequests, that's not my issue. There is no player exploration or influence on these, they are literally thrusted at you. Play KOTOR, JE, ME, and DA:O and if you cannot tell the difference between people EVERYWHERE for you to talk to and in DA2 NO ONE, than you must be willfully ignoring these elements. It's okay to not place importance on them, to each their own, but to dispute the changes is futile and counterintuitive.

They do speak to you, the say a line and I agree that these quests were very useless and a waste of time to even add in. BUT this game is filled with sidequests that are way better than the one in Origins, an example of Origins sidequest would be go to place, save some people from darkspawn and get a line of dialogue and return to the Chantry to hear a bible quote. An example of DA2 sidequests is basically the same in go to a place same some people but there`s a lot more involvement with your party, they always chime in to say their opinion and it seems you`re always making a decision. They`re way better done in DA2 and to talk about just the ones you`re talking about and just ignore all the rest ruins your credibility.

I respect that you feel the sidequests were 'way better' in DA2, but opinion is not fact. I only stated the FACTS. Which are that the quests where you happen upon a random item, return them to a quest marker, and get no NPC interaction other than a single line of dialogue is a symptom of less. You can argue that this was a 'less' that didn't affect your opinion of the game personally, but either way it is less. It speaks to a greater symptom of less time, less love and less care being put into making the DA2 experience special. I'm sorry that my opinion has lost me credibility in your eyes, unfortunately I am aware of better experiences produced by the same developer and I miss those experiences.  

[eye basher]

Well if they had made DA2 the same as DAO the haters would be complaining that it was the same they didn't so they complain that is different haters gonna hate no matter what.

[GodBID]

DA:O average playtime 30 - 40 hours or something like that?

DA2 Can be crushed in 15 hours if speed it up by ESC clicking 99% of the voiced stuff

Don't get me wrong i love DA2, but it's still missing a lot, like why could i not play as hawke during his/her time with the mercs/thieves this would have been a perfect starting point for your hawke to learn the ropes so to speak, Gear customization is low, armors look the same on male and female hawke, Your companions are also locked into bland and boring outfits with the exception of Merrill perhaps who actually gets a really good looking Elven Chain Mail armor, it feels like DA2 was pushed a bit faster out then it should have been to me.

I can only hope that you give us some glorious DLC's that will expand on some of the things i have listed up -crosses fingers-

[fn_outlaw]

Spuudle wrote...

Denpos1 wrote...

There's a lot of people who do like DA2 and bioware for what they done with it though like me

I too like DA2 although it has a few probs. However, origins also had many probs.  Maybe they will suprise us all and bring out DA:O II instead of DA3

This.  I can't show you how much I agree with it.  Would pay $60 for a DA:O II instead of DA3.

And to the person that said DA2 had high reviews, I have to say nay.  DA2's reviews were lower than the original.

[Pwnsaur]

eye basher wrote...

Well if they had made DA2 the same as DAO the haters would be complaining that it was the same they didn't so they complain that is different haters gonna hate no matter what.

I don't even know what this hypothetical, arbitrary statement is supposed to accomplish or prove. Coining terms like 'haters gonna hate' is so useless and obstructive that it is deemed meaningless. I am upset with an inferior product from a superior developer. If you want to label me, label me a 'dissatisfied customer.' I don't know how you discern quality and enjoyment, but I am not overcome with knee-jerk reactions to align myself with a meaningless stereotype like 'hater.' I wanted to like this game, and I had every reason to believe, based on past experience, that I would. I did not pre-order the BioWare Signature Edition for $60 so I could bash it on these forums. I pre-ordered it because it is a sequel to a game I loved, and I expected it to be similar.

The fact that it's essentially an unnecessary reboot of a successful franchise is what is causing fans to be disappointed. Your name-calling debate tactics are deconstructed in only a few sentences. I would urge you to try to provide insightful analysis of individual and dynamic circumstances instead of hiding behind one word phrases that do not contend or assess the actual issues people have with the game.

[stuboy52]

i cant stand people who complain oh this is too simple now, oh not enough in game spreadsheets of data really i think da2 and me2 are the future of story based rpgs and those who say its not a rpg well it is a role playing game like any normal game is from any genre as i mean you cant have a story without a protagonist; a role to play.

anyway my point is that i have played all bioware games from kotor to DA2 and bioware has only got better as stories feel more real as moving to movie style cutscenes but with the action a strategy gameplay hybrid means characters matter while supporting a reason for loving bloody slaughter i then manner you wish either tactics of straight blunt action. Plus you have to consider these are still long deep games so some things maybe overlooked but it was definitely released as a brilliant game with few issues from what if experienced. people should think what they enjoy thats there not complain whats not there as if thats the case dont buy the games as bioware games are using the same great formula since kotor which works plus streamlining a game slightly isnt a bad thing as is makes games less frustrating as the more complex the more hard and overwhelming it is as games are about fun not stressing you out replaying a level 100 times because you always die.

[Riloux]

DA2 has no soul. It's very dry and efficient-- not what I want in a game.

[Kendar Fleetfoot]

I agree with the OP, to my mind DAO sucked you in to the personal lives particularly of your NPC's and was a work of art with a myriad different settings and landscapes. DA2 is a good game for what it is but it seems more practical than artistic and less personally engrossing and the repeated quests with the same environments was really boring. I played DAO 10 times I can't imagine play DA2 more than twice especially since the impact of importing my 10 DA games has so little impact.

[Oneiropolos]

I liked Jade Empire, and I didn't think I would. I'd totally love a sequel. KOTOR was -okay-, but HK was the best part of it for me.

Honestly, I'm holding out for DLCs in terms of DAII before I make a final judgement. Which, on the one hand, I shouldn't have to. I shouldn't have to have DLCs to make the game feel complete, and if they're just stupid side missions where we don't further our friendships/relationships at all, I'll probably refrain from buying them. THAT was my main issue. The main 'back step' in DAII for me that made me feel uncertain. You give characters home bases but you don't even let us talk to them when we go there. We can only talk to them WHEN DECIDED. And then we only know that we can because we get a quest popping up in our 'journal'. Look, if you're sleeping with someone even if you're not living with them, they... can just drop by the house, can't they? Why do you have to go to them and if you do, why don't you get a letter saying so instead of it just magically appearing that you should go see them? I can dismiss most of my disappointments about the game with one reason or another. The characters are fantastic, I died laughing at parts. I cried at others. I felt attached... but I did not ever feel like I really was in a relationship with any character. I didn't feel the 'lead up'. It was sort of "Here's a book. By the way, you're hot! Yay! We're in love!" I wanted to talk about things more in depth and it just was never permitted. If Fenris didn't want to leave his house to live in mine, then hey, let me spend a night over there. I don't mind the fade to blacks, but Hawke couldn't even kiss her guy when she wanted to! Everyone remember being irked that Zevran didn't havve the option to kiss him in public while you were travelling? Alistair was -so- adorable when you kissed him. That wasn't 'sexual'. It was just a sign that yes, you were in a relationship with them and occasionally you stop to show it to them. We're not even allowed to talk to our LI's let alone kiss them in DAII. THAT is what made it feel less like DA:O's successor to me and a major step in the wrong direction. (It isn't just about LIs. This lack of immersion trickled into the world when dealing with any NPC or companion too. A bit frustrating considering how well I know this writing team really does write.)

[mikx82]

I would love to hear someone from Bioware comment on this. Someone with authority or someone involved with development. (Good to know they read this forums and be open to critizism from their customers) I for one am enjoying DA2 but i do also acknowledge all the BIG changes they made for this game compared to Origins. I agree with the OP but i'm hoping that this isnt really where Bioware is going. Hands down Origins is much much much more extensive and personal (Origins was about you, the player, your story) while DA2 was sort of similar to what happened to FF13 - it's trying to tell a story the way the devs want it to be told (Hawke's). And I know professional sites/reviewers gave this game a good score and they say only the "loud minority" are the ones who complain but still, i honestly believe this "loud minority" still warrants a reasonable amount of critic for the game and i would love to hear what Bioware thinks of this HATE/LOVE feeling towards one of their games, them being the company that RPGers look up to.

so... what say Bioware?

still love you though >_<

[Grunk]

Hated Jade Empire. All I did was find one infinite combo and just do that for victory against every enemy in the game. You wanna talk about brain-dead combat? Ugh.

Although I loved the idea. If they massively overhauled the combat (I'm talking about some real DMC/Bayonetta type stuff) so it felt like a cinematic kung-fu action flick, I'd be up for it. And make Open Palm more like Ryu from SF and Closed Fist more like Akuma; I don't wanna be a thug just because I play a character that believes in personal strength above all else.

Anyway, sorry you disliked the game, OP. I loved it and found it very engaging. Loved the sidequests, the ending, etc. I have problems with it, of course, but I've never encountered a game that I considered flawless, not even my most favorite games of all time.

[AshesandDust]

I do agree the story is much less personal, on a mental and emotional level. The first game could make you cry at the end if your warden died. This game maybe Anders dies... personally I didn't connect with him at all so his death wouldn't mean much to me. Now if Alistair or even Loghain were sacrificed in the first, it was a bit more stunning. Why? Because the characters were more personal, likable, I don't know... better. The first game had a replay value of 6.0, this game precisely 2.0, unless you want to play through every import you have.

All that aside. It's a solid game. The graphics are improved and the controls are better (in my opinion, I'm more of an action gamer myself, but hey some people like strategy in which the first game is superior). I still love the game and I can see why they may have simplified some things. For instance you can't have 6 different origins stories... but they did change it up by killing one sibling off depending on your class, and a few things imported over from DAO spiced things up (my personal favorite was seeing a drunk Alistair babbling to himself in the hanged man because Anora and my Warden sent him away). So it's really not a bad game, leaps and bounds ahead of other RPGs (Fable III anyone) in terms of storyline, roleplaying, and gameplay.