I liked the Arishok until he became an idiot. It's like the writer just didn't come into work that day.
In fact, every enemy in DA2 is an idiot. They should've named the protagonist House, not Hawke.
Arishok – Best BioWare Adversary?
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Maria Caliban
, mars 16 2011 02:43
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#177
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 12:20
TeamRyan
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@Koyasha
Doesn't Sten conclude that the warden isn't a female in the end. because by definition women don't fight. what I got from that is that if there is a Qunari woman who is better suited as a fighter she is no longer considered a women in gender.
because there is a difference between gender and sex. In many cultures genders are assigned not birthed.
Doesn't Sten conclude that the warden isn't a female in the end. because by definition women don't fight. what I got from that is that if there is a Qunari woman who is better suited as a fighter she is no longer considered a women in gender.
because there is a difference between gender and sex. In many cultures genders are assigned not birthed.
#178
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 12:32
Beerfish
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[quote]ZombiePowered wrote...
He took a bunch of corrupt abusive nobles as hostages. You know, the few who bled the many dry? Who sit on the fingers squabbling with each other while everyone else in the city suffers? They are large part of the reason the Arishok attacked in the first place. They have no right to be in charge.
And it is his devine right to do so? Is he equally happy and understanding when some of his own Qunari don't like the way he operates?
That is partially what the arms, legs and eyes are about. That is only one piece of their role, but it is an essential one. However, that is not what all Qunari are about. They are far more technologically advanced than Thedas, and they offer an end to unfair, cruel mistreatment based on who you were born as. (unless you are a mage, but I'll save that for later).
As long as you fit into their predefinition of who you are supposed to be. As far as tech advancement there can be book smart and street foolish as well as the fact he lets Pride get in the way of a task, as in finding the best way to get his hoily relic back.
They give you a job based on your aptitude at a task. You aren't born into it, that is everything the Qunari are against. You perform the role that will best benefit the whole of society.
You are essentially told or labelled as to what your role is, it matter nothing if you don't really like doing where you have been slotted. That line of thinking eliminates anyone that is a late bloomer and never takes into account that mistakes are made.
That isn't hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is condemning something and doing it at the same time. I dare you to find an instance where the Qunari do this.
I gave you two clear examples below.
[quote]
Examples: Hawke and the Dwarf wanting black powder quest. He refuses to pay the dwarf for an implied service rendered. When Hawke complains about not getting paid he immediately makes the Dwarf pay Hawke for his/her services rendered.[/quote]
Javaris did promise you money. The Arishok made him uphold that promise.
Somantics, just like the Qunari singing the Llomeryn accord and then saying it means nothing to them at all. The Arishok allowed Javarris and you the hero to do his diry work and allowed the implication to javarris stand that he would allow the use of gun power. He then immediately waffles on that seconds later makes a judgement on somehting he has no proof of.
[quote]
The stolen book, when returned he demands thatthe thief be take back with the Qunari to face whatever justice he has in mind, even though Hawke suggests letting them handle the punishement because they are in Kirkwall. At the same time he takes in two elves who are murderes and have coveniently converted to avoid prosection and
refuses to let them face justice for their crimes.[/quote]
There is a difference between someone stealing a priceless artifact for her own personal gain and protecting two people who murdered a man for raping their sister, a crime that wasn't going to be punished because humans consider elves second-class citizens, if they consider them citizens at all. Which many don't. He was standing against an injustice within our own society there. The fact that he demanded Isabela return to Par Vollen with him makes him less of a hypocrite, as once again he is standing against an injustice.
No there is no difference, once again the Arishok makes his own rules thinking he knows all. There was no proof other than the words of the elves, that doesn't stop the Arishok from making an immediate judgement. He wants to pass judgement for crimes he perceives in his own land and make judgements on a land that he does not belong to. Aveline say they will have to investigate, but no.
[quote]
Last but not least, if the mages thought they had it bad before hand wait until they fall into Qunari hands. Most likely executed immedaitely, if not face the same fate as the Qunari mages.[/quote]
No evidence that they would but executed immediately, but that is little comfort. Being a mage in Qunari society is one of the worse fates out there.
Funny how you trot out the 'no evidence that'...line here and ignore it when in some of the other examples above.
He took a bunch of corrupt abusive nobles as hostages. You know, the few who bled the many dry? Who sit on the fingers squabbling with each other while everyone else in the city suffers? They are large part of the reason the Arishok attacked in the first place. They have no right to be in charge.
And it is his devine right to do so? Is he equally happy and understanding when some of his own Qunari don't like the way he operates?
That is partially what the arms, legs and eyes are about. That is only one piece of their role, but it is an essential one. However, that is not what all Qunari are about. They are far more technologically advanced than Thedas, and they offer an end to unfair, cruel mistreatment based on who you were born as. (unless you are a mage, but I'll save that for later).
As long as you fit into their predefinition of who you are supposed to be. As far as tech advancement there can be book smart and street foolish as well as the fact he lets Pride get in the way of a task, as in finding the best way to get his hoily relic back.
They give you a job based on your aptitude at a task. You aren't born into it, that is everything the Qunari are against. You perform the role that will best benefit the whole of society.
You are essentially told or labelled as to what your role is, it matter nothing if you don't really like doing where you have been slotted. That line of thinking eliminates anyone that is a late bloomer and never takes into account that mistakes are made.
That isn't hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is condemning something and doing it at the same time. I dare you to find an instance where the Qunari do this.
I gave you two clear examples below.
[quote]
Examples: Hawke and the Dwarf wanting black powder quest. He refuses to pay the dwarf for an implied service rendered. When Hawke complains about not getting paid he immediately makes the Dwarf pay Hawke for his/her services rendered.[/quote]
Javaris did promise you money. The Arishok made him uphold that promise.
Somantics, just like the Qunari singing the Llomeryn accord and then saying it means nothing to them at all. The Arishok allowed Javarris and you the hero to do his diry work and allowed the implication to javarris stand that he would allow the use of gun power. He then immediately waffles on that seconds later makes a judgement on somehting he has no proof of.
[quote]
The stolen book, when returned he demands thatthe thief be take back with the Qunari to face whatever justice he has in mind, even though Hawke suggests letting them handle the punishement because they are in Kirkwall. At the same time he takes in two elves who are murderes and have coveniently converted to avoid prosection and
refuses to let them face justice for their crimes.[/quote]
There is a difference between someone stealing a priceless artifact for her own personal gain and protecting two people who murdered a man for raping their sister, a crime that wasn't going to be punished because humans consider elves second-class citizens, if they consider them citizens at all. Which many don't. He was standing against an injustice within our own society there. The fact that he demanded Isabela return to Par Vollen with him makes him less of a hypocrite, as once again he is standing against an injustice.
No there is no difference, once again the Arishok makes his own rules thinking he knows all. There was no proof other than the words of the elves, that doesn't stop the Arishok from making an immediate judgement. He wants to pass judgement for crimes he perceives in his own land and make judgements on a land that he does not belong to. Aveline say they will have to investigate, but no.
[quote]
Last but not least, if the mages thought they had it bad before hand wait until they fall into Qunari hands. Most likely executed immedaitely, if not face the same fate as the Qunari mages.[/quote]
No evidence that they would but executed immediately, but that is little comfort. Being a mage in Qunari society is one of the worse fates out there.
Funny how you trot out the 'no evidence that'...line here and ignore it when in some of the other examples above.
#179
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 12:58
Mnemnosyne
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If this were the case, that entire line of conversation would make no sense. It starts out with "you look like a woman." If female Qunari are allowed to fight if they're good at it, then it follows that Sten would never have this sort of confusion, since he would have seen female Qunari that 'aren't women,' so why would the Warden being female and also fighting confuse him?TeamRyan wrote...
@Koyasha
Doesn't Sten conclude that the warden isn't a female in the end. because by definition women don't fight. what I got from that is that if there is a Qunari woman who is better suited as a fighter she is no longer considered a women in gender.
because there is a difference between gender and sex. In many cultures genders are assigned not birthed.
I also recall no such dialogue, though I may have missed or never seen it if it exists.
#180
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 01:03
TeamRyan
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Koyasha wrote...
If this were the case, that entire line of conversation would make no sense. It starts out with "you look like a woman." If female Qunari are allowed to fight if they're good at it, then it follows that Sten would never have this sort of confusion, since he would have seen female Qunari that 'aren't women,' so why would the Warden being female and also fighting confuse him?TeamRyan wrote...
@Koyasha
Doesn't Sten conclude that the warden isn't a female in the end. because by definition women don't fight. what I got from that is that if there is a Qunari woman who is better suited as a fighter she is no longer considered a women in gender.
because there is a difference between gender and sex. In many cultures genders are assigned not birthed.
I also recall no such dialogue, though I may have missed or never seen it if it exists.
Its probably because everyone refers to the warden as a woman, creating some confusion on Stens part.
Modifié par TeamRyan, 31 mars 2011 - 01:04 .
#181
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 01:33
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@Beerfish
As far as the Javaris thing goes you are at a loss, because Javaris did promise Hawke money, and falsely thought that by destroying Tal vashoth he would gain enough respect to be given the black powder. That whole mission and everything that transpires from it is Javaris' fault not the Arishok. The Arishok clearly sees that Javaris didn't execute the talvashoth, sees you walking in with blood on your hands and obviously knows you did. It doesn't take a genius to see that Javaris didn't get you to do it with his dashing good looks and silver tongue. If he promised the qunari money for the black powder why wouldn't he promise you money for killing the tal vashoth in order for him to get the black powder.
The Lloymeryn accord has no affect on the character of the Arishok because he didn't sign it personally(at least I don't think he personally did it since it happen generations ago and i don't thinkt he Qunari live that long). Secondly the Lloymeryn accord hasn't been broken by the Qunari and the codex even states that when it was broken it was broken by the other nations of thedas not the Qunari. Finally the treaty was just that a treaty, given the chance or military might whoever has more power, favor or want will break the accord if it suits them, the Qunari are just more open about it.
As far as the Javaris thing goes you are at a loss, because Javaris did promise Hawke money, and falsely thought that by destroying Tal vashoth he would gain enough respect to be given the black powder. That whole mission and everything that transpires from it is Javaris' fault not the Arishok. The Arishok clearly sees that Javaris didn't execute the talvashoth, sees you walking in with blood on your hands and obviously knows you did. It doesn't take a genius to see that Javaris didn't get you to do it with his dashing good looks and silver tongue. If he promised the qunari money for the black powder why wouldn't he promise you money for killing the tal vashoth in order for him to get the black powder.
The Lloymeryn accord has no affect on the character of the Arishok because he didn't sign it personally(at least I don't think he personally did it since it happen generations ago and i don't thinkt he Qunari live that long). Secondly the Lloymeryn accord hasn't been broken by the Qunari and the codex even states that when it was broken it was broken by the other nations of thedas not the Qunari. Finally the treaty was just that a treaty, given the chance or military might whoever has more power, favor or want will break the accord if it suits them, the Qunari are just more open about it.
#182
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 01:46
NedPepper
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Jangocat wrote...
Are you kidding me? You never played KOTOR did you? Darth Malak was a WAY better adversary and a much more developed deeper character. Malak was literally epic. And I don't see how you could interpret Arishok as noble. He was a typical pompous close minded fundamentalist living in a foreign city and criticizing their lifestyle. I couldn't wait to kill this judgmental fool.
I know this is heresy on these boards...but I'll take Kreia over Malak anyday. Kreia was a kind of precursor to Flemeth. I love that evil old blind manipulate jedi.
As far as the Arishok? My buddy and I were talking about him, and we both decided he MAKES the game. It's such a grey area. He's really more of a victim. I didn't WANT to fight him.
#183
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 02:33
Nukenin
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nedpepper wrote...
[…]
As far as the Arishok? My buddy and I were talking about him, and we both decided he MAKES the game. It's such a grey area. He's really more of a victim. I didn't WANT to fight him.
As soon as I saw that head rolling, the Arishok became nothing to my Hawke but another target for the murder dagger. A shame I had to resort to a full-on brawl with a two-handed sword instead.
At that point, the game's path and what my Hawke would've really done diverged. The real Hawke is going to rewrite the Qun with the blood of any stubborn Qunari resisting the change, whilst the game Hawke is giving dance lessons to the mages and templars.
(Somehow I'd remained blissfully unspoiled as to the exact specifics of the particular event to which I refer, so I was truly taken aback and obviously had a strong reaction to the surrounding idiocy.)
#184
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 02:58
sphinxess
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Koyasha wrote...
Says who? When? I have seen no evidence of this. I've seen evidence of exactly the opposite. Mages aren't the only ones who are given an absolute role based on what they were born as.ZombiePowered wrote...
They give you a job based on your aptitude at a task. You aren't born into it, that is everything the Qunari are against. You perform the role that will best benefit the whole of society.
"Women are priests, artisans, shopkeepers, or farmers. They don't fight." -Sten
So, mages and women are forced into very specific roles under the Qun, one of which is some of the most horrible mistreatment one can imagine for a living being. Not only that, but they are indoctrinated into believing this is right. So much that the saarebas one encounters kills himself because of the possibility that he 'may' be corrupted because he was outside his karataam.
Even if your idea that they give you a job based on your aptitude at a task is true (citation please? I haven't heard any quotes in this throughout any of the games or the novels that I can recall) it doesn't apply to well over half the population.
What we dont see is any corruption as you never visit the actual lands they live in - the society is wide open for abuse by the ones doing the choosing - son or daughter of a leader - rather doubt they will be assigned to a life of street sweeping
#185
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 03:26
naughty99
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I think Arishok benefits from outstanding character design, excellent dialogue and a great voice performance by someone that sounds a bit like Michael Dorn. Anybody know who this voice actor was?
However, the duel with Arishok is repetitive because you have to keep running around the pillars in a circle for 30 - 40 minutes. Maybe this battle would benefit from a different interior environment or better Arishok AI.
However, the duel with Arishok is repetitive because you have to keep running around the pillars in a circle for 30 - 40 minutes. Maybe this battle would benefit from a different interior environment or better Arishok AI.
Modifié par naughty99, 31 mars 2011 - 03:30 .
#186
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 07:08
NedPepper
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naughty99 wrote...
I think Arishok benefits from outstanding character design, excellent dialogue and a great voice performance by someone that sounds a bit like Michael Dorn. Anybody know who this voice actor was?
However, the duel with Arishok is repetitive because you have to keep running around the pillars in a circle for 30 - 40 minutes. Maybe this battle would benefit from a different interior environment or better Arishok AI.
Sounds like Tony Todd. I think that's his name. The guy who plays Candyman.
#187
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 08:00
ThePasserby
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I guess I'm not so easily impressed. I enjoyed killing the Arishok and kicking the squatters out of Kirkwall.
And I demanded coin when delivering the swords.
And I demanded coin when delivering the swords.
#188
Guest_Guest12345_*
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 08:03
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I would say Saren and Loghain are both close to Arishok. I am not sure which of the three I think is the *best* but they are all great. I think all three fall into an ambiguous category that blurs the lines between villains and adversaries. But I think all three qualify as adversaries.
Modifié par scyphozoa, 31 mars 2011 - 08:03 .
#189
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 08:28
Altima Darkspells
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The thing about the Arishok is that he's a military leader. I'm sure he's trained to view the world in manners of tactics and black and while.
In the real world, military leaders rarely do exceptional at politics, because they are used to, and trained to expect, no compromises. You see an enemy, you smash him until he cannot hurt you.
Given how the Qun seems to operate, that's a rather impressive feat. I wouldn't be surprised if the Arishok had gone a bit insane (by the standards of the Qunari). You can tell this by his, "You should all be grateful!" comment.
However, there's just something that I can't quite place my finger on that I just don't like about the Arishok. Maybe it's the Qun itself, but the Arishok seemed to be looking for an excuse to launch an assault. Not to mention that while he was there, he was sending out scouting elements to survey the countryside.
I do feel that cutting off the Viscount's head was a tad bit excessive, and probably only there to make sure everything would go to hell in Act 3.
In the real world, military leaders rarely do exceptional at politics, because they are used to, and trained to expect, no compromises. You see an enemy, you smash him until he cannot hurt you.
Given how the Qun seems to operate, that's a rather impressive feat. I wouldn't be surprised if the Arishok had gone a bit insane (by the standards of the Qunari). You can tell this by his, "You should all be grateful!" comment.
However, there's just something that I can't quite place my finger on that I just don't like about the Arishok. Maybe it's the Qun itself, but the Arishok seemed to be looking for an excuse to launch an assault. Not to mention that while he was there, he was sending out scouting elements to survey the countryside.
I do feel that cutting off the Viscount's head was a tad bit excessive, and probably only there to make sure everything would go to hell in Act 3.
#190
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 08:34
Firky
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Altima Darkspells wrote...
I do feel that cutting off the Viscount's head was a tad bit excessive, and probably only there to make sure everything would go to hell in Act 3.
That occurred to me too. I couldn't quite understand his motivation there, or it went over my head.
Having said that, I relished the conversations with him. One of the most interesting parts of the game for me.
Edit: PS. Best adversary? I'd probably have to go with the person on the first page who said Irenicus. I had nightmares after he exploded that farmwife. For years.
Modifié par Firky, 31 mars 2011 - 08:38 .
#191
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 10:13
Aldandil
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I agree that the Arishok is a great adversary/villain. In my book, it's always preferrable to have an antagonist that tries to do what he thinks is right, rather than being self-serving or plain evil.
However, I don't think it can be considered to be the right thing to do to attack the city that has housed your army for three years, especially since you weren't invited but instead was refuged there. Clearly, a foreign army staying within the bounds of a small city state is going to cause civil unrest, no matter how peacefully the army acts. The fact that the army belongs to a nation with an explicit desire to conquer the known world doesn't make things better. When the leader of that army feels unwanted in the city, the "right" thing to do is to leave.
What the Arishok does is to bring an army to a foreign culture, and in the end hold them to the standards of his culture (and yes, he is very patient about it). This is of course entirely in line with his character, and that is what makes him great. He's not being immoral according to his own code, of course, but according to what modern society consider to be right (the whole freedom thing where everyone gets to think for themselves), his actions are wrong.
He's not good because he's right, he's good because he thinks he's right.
However, I don't think it can be considered to be the right thing to do to attack the city that has housed your army for three years, especially since you weren't invited but instead was refuged there. Clearly, a foreign army staying within the bounds of a small city state is going to cause civil unrest, no matter how peacefully the army acts. The fact that the army belongs to a nation with an explicit desire to conquer the known world doesn't make things better. When the leader of that army feels unwanted in the city, the "right" thing to do is to leave.
What the Arishok does is to bring an army to a foreign culture, and in the end hold them to the standards of his culture (and yes, he is very patient about it). This is of course entirely in line with his character, and that is what makes him great. He's not being immoral according to his own code, of course, but according to what modern society consider to be right (the whole freedom thing where everyone gets to think for themselves), his actions are wrong.
He's not good because he's right, he's good because he thinks he's right.
#192
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 10:24
Ileanos07
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Best adversary? Saren. From the same reasons. I just love when adversary isnt just evil guy but someone with justified ideas...
#193
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 05:02
TeamRyan
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I'm beginning to think that Anders may be considered one of the adversaries of this game and in fact may be the greatest one. I mean in all honesty he manipulates you or your clout to stay undetected while he worked his mischief. not only that but he kills so many people just to start a war that so many other people will die in. The great part about it is that he knows fully well that it will cause harm to millions understands what it means and does it anyway because he believes it is the only way to achieve his goals.
#194
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 05:20
Mnemnosyne
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War, even if it brings harm and suffering to people is necessary in the face of such oppression. Mages have waited for a thousand years with no other alternative having happened. In the face of such a situation there is no choice but to do whatever it takes to begin the revolution. People will suffer either way.
#195
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 06:18
Kenzie1100
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If I had to choose my favourite Bioware adversary it would have to be Saren from Mass Effect 1, mainly because my favourite type of Adversary is the type you star off hating but eventually come to respect, and I think Saren did a great job of this. However, that said, I think Arishok was also very good. but I found myself liking him all the way through, and didn't think twice about duelling him. I will agree that he made act 2, and that act 2 was easily the best.
#196
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 06:39
Beerfish
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Koyasha wrote...
War, even if it brings harm and suffering to people is necessary in the face of such oppression. Mages have waited for a thousand years with no other alternative having happened. In the face of such a situation there is no choice but to do whatever it takes to begin the revolution. People will suffer either way.
Mages contained and looked after in the circle, mages and their families suffer.
Mages go to war and or win, the whole population of all the lands suffer. That is how the Chantry, the Templars, a lot of the public and some mages feel. There is a misconception that ALL mages want freedom and feel they can deal with it. That is far from the case. I would hazard to guess that many many mages faces went white when they heard about some radical mage blowing up the chantry and a Kirkwall mini war. Their lives just got a lot worse because of it.
#197
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 06:47
Lord Gremlin
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Saren? Really? He was simply insane. To make a deal with a race who wants nothing but harvest all life including him? Saren makes abominations look reasonable. Pff, I think Sovereign actually "abominated" him anyway. He had that metal look on his face...Kenzie1100 wrote...
If I had to choose my favourite Bioware adversary it would have to be Saren from Mass Effect 1, mainly because my favourite type of Adversary is the type you star off hating but eventually come to respect, and I think Saren did a great job of this. However, that said, I think Arishok was also very good. but I found myself liking him all the way through, and didn't think twice about duelling him. I will agree that he made act 2, and that act 2 was easily the best.
#198
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 06:57
Kenshen
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Aribeth will always be my favorite with Sun Li and Darth Malek right behind. I have no respect for the Arishok.
#199
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 07:43
Kov
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The Arishok was good, but not as good as Loghain, Saren or the Architect in my opinion. I respected him, yes, but I respected the others as well and after sparing Loghain/Architect, I spent days thinking about if it was the right desicion. I liked Loghain, his reasons and how he tried to protect Ferelden no matter what, even if it meant killing his king, or sacrifying people... If you got him in your party, every single conversation with him was amazing.
The Architect, I'm still hoping he won't come back with an army of intelligent darkspawn in Dragon age 3 or 4 to kill everyone or something. But after understanding why the darkspawn are the way they are, I pitied them. Killing the Architect, their only hope to be "free", seemed just wrong. And it seems that free darkspawn can be really kind, for exemple, if you let live the Messenger he starts helping people in need in his way to the Deep Roads.
On the other hand, after reading The Calling, well... If the Architect doesn't change his plans, sooner or later my Warden will have to kill him.
Saren was a really tragic character. Like Loghain, he was doing everything he could to do what he thought was right. And the fact he killed himself at the end, when my Shepard made him understand that he was indoctrinated, was simply awesome. Even after all he did, I couldn't hate him.
The Arishok was great, but after he died I only thought "Oh, poor guy, he was cool. Too bad it had to end like this" and keep playing.
The Architect, I'm still hoping he won't come back with an army of intelligent darkspawn in Dragon age 3 or 4 to kill everyone or something. But after understanding why the darkspawn are the way they are, I pitied them. Killing the Architect, their only hope to be "free", seemed just wrong. And it seems that free darkspawn can be really kind, for exemple, if you let live the Messenger he starts helping people in need in his way to the Deep Roads.
On the other hand, after reading The Calling, well... If the Architect doesn't change his plans, sooner or later my Warden will have to kill him.
Saren was a really tragic character. Like Loghain, he was doing everything he could to do what he thought was right. And the fact he killed himself at the end, when my Shepard made him understand that he was indoctrinated, was simply awesome. Even after all he did, I couldn't hate him.
The Arishok was great, but after he died I only thought "Oh, poor guy, he was cool. Too bad it had to end like this" and keep playing.
#200
Posté 31 mars 2011 - 08:13
ZombiePowered
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Koyasha wrote...
Says who? When? I have seen no evidence of this. I've seen evidence of exactly the opposite. Mages aren't the only ones who are given an absolute role based on what they were born as.ZombiePowered wrote...
They give you a job based on your aptitude at a task. You aren't born into it, that is everything the Qunari are against. You perform the role that will best benefit the whole of society.
"Women are priests, artisans, shopkeepers, or farmers. They don't fight." -Sten
So, mages and women are forced into very specific roles under the Qun, one of which is some of the most horrible mistreatment one can imagine for a living being. Not only that, but they are indoctrinated into believing this is right. So much that the saarebas one encounters kills himself because of the possibility that he 'may' be corrupted because he was outside his karataam.
Even if your idea that they give you a job based on your aptitude at a task is true (citation please? I haven't heard any quotes in this throughout any of the games or the novels that I can recall) it doesn't apply to well over half the population.
Go read the DragonAge Wiki article-- it states quite clearly that all children are evaluated at age twelve, and are sent to perform the tasks they are the most adept at. Someone else mentioned that sex and magical ability play a role, which is true. Mages have only one fate, and that is an argument I would not like to get into--it belongs in a thread discussing the oppression of mages. As for sex determining roles, yes this is true. Both women and men are, in the eyes of the Qunari, better at certain tasks. It isn't discrimination in the sense that one sex is inferior to the other, it's just that each has its own strong suits. The Qunari don't hate women--they just place them in roles that better benefit society as a whole. They do the same to men.
And there are far worse things that can happen to a person than having their possible roles in society refined to tasks they are biologically superior at. If it turns out that the Qunari are wrong about these biological dispositions, they would no doubt reassess these rules once they have evidence to prove they are wrong.
And you say indoctrination like it is a bad or uncommon thing. Indoctrination, brain-washing, culture, whatever you wish to call it, exists in every single society today. Some people are brought up to believe in God. Some to believe in freedom and human rights. Some are taught to always place the community above themselves, other to place their family above themselves and other. Some countries praise individualism/selfishness. This is just a sampling, and in most cases people brought up on these beliefs will fervently defend because they believe they are right. The Qunari are no different.
sphinxess wrote...
What we dont see is any corruption as you never visit the actual lands they live in - the society is wide open for abuse by the ones doing the choosing - son or daughter of a leader - rather doubt they will be assigned to a life of street sweeping
The Qunari do not have children. Most Qunari do not associate love with sex--they are two very different things to them. Though love sometimes does lead to sex, any children born from this are sent to be taught by the Tamassrans. Other than this, all children are born from people who are selected by the Tamassrans to breed. The Tamassrans are also the ones who select children for their roles. "Parents" (which don't exist in Qunari society--families are the people one works with, not biologically connected to) have no say in what their "children" do in life. This is all decided by the Tamassrans--the ones who care for and educate children for the first twelve years of their life.
Again, this is all stated in the DragonAge Wiki page about the Qunari. I suggest reading it, it is quite interesting to see all the compiled information about the Qunari.
