6 réponses à ce sujet

[henkez3]

So, before release BioWare was often talking about that family was a big part of this game, but beyond Act 1, there really isn't that much about family.
First of all, one of  your family memebers dies at the beginning of the game depending on which class you chose. I dont agree with this choice on BioWare's part, but I did see how it was a reasonable way to go storywise. Then the fact that your other family members leaves after the first act, meaning you'll play the majority of the game without a family member companion, really makes me wonder why BioWare said that this was a game of a man or woman's life, and a big part of it would be about family, because it really isn', you dont spend alot of time with any family members and most of them dies anyways. In this aspect of the game I was immensly dissapointed, that's all I can say.

Now you might be thinking that I hate this game, but I don't, infact, I love this game, it has, like any other game some less enjoyable part and features that were overhyped, but in the end, I think this game was really good and even better than DA:O.

So, do you folks agree with me or not?

[Taleroth]

Often times, and this is one of those instances, I feel Bioware has a disconnect between the player's character and the player. Yes, my character should feel distraught when Bethany died, when Carver joined the Templars, and when Leandra died. I was not similarly moved.

Aveline meant more to me. Her death or betrayal would have been more dramatic than any of the family members' deaths. It's hard for me to really be attached to a character I literally met 15 minutes ago (dead sibling), a weak companion (other sibling with no specialization), and a character whose entire role was standing around in a house.

[Frybread76]

This is why I think the game should have began in Lothering and shown Hawke growing up with his siblings. This would have made us care more about Carver and Bethany when bad things happened to them.

[Raygereio]

henkez3 wrote...
So, do you folks agree with me or not?

Yes. The whole family aspect was probably the weakest element in DA2.

Edit; that was drive-by wasn't it? Let's fix that:

The first sibling that dies: what’s the point? Okay, Carver dies roughly 5 minutes after he’s appeared on screen. We’re not introduced to him, we know nothing about him; in other words, he’s effectively just faceless-melee-guy. I played the tutorial section, saved when I arrived in Kirkwall and started the game again 2 days later. When I then heard mommy Hawke going “Oh, poor Carver” I honestly had no clue who she was talking about at first. When you want to create drama, it helps when said drama is actually about something from the perspective of the player.
Also the old saying of “show, don’t tell” applies; don’t tell us we’re supposed to care about this, show us why. An example would be to have the tutorial level show the Hawkes as a family. Have Hawke set up the Hawke-twin’s birthday (Christ on a crutch, I just quoted Fable), or help Bethany hide from some templars, or get Carver to hide you. Once you establish that this is a family, ripping someone out of that family actually has some impact.

The second sibling that dies/goes away. He/She contracts the blight for no real discernable reason whatsoever. Yeah, yeah; fighting darkspawn is supposed to be dangerous because you can get infected with the taint. But why wasn't anyone else infected? A similar gameplay/story segregation was in Origins with your party, but there it could be ignored because no attention was drawn to it. When you have inconsistensies in your story, the last thing one should do is put a big spotlight on it.
Maybe the second sibling leaving if you don't take him/her with you into the deeproads will make more sense as it at least ties into the overall theme of mages vs templars, I haven't played that yet.
And for a gameplay perspective this entire thing is just a slap in the face to the player. Don’t bother wasting time and effort to make sure the sibling is properly equipped, has his/her tactics properly set up and get comfortable using him/her in your party setup as that’s all just a complete waste of time. Gee thanks.Taking away gameplay elements like that - especially when there is no real point to/ reason for it - just irks me.

And then there's mommy Hawke; I'll admit that her death does have some manner of impact to it the first time you play, though the particular nature in which it is done makes it almost silly instead of tragic. Here my main source of annoyance is the fixed outcome. This is especially annoying considering the multiple choices in the quest-chain leading up that moment. Why offer those choices at all if every single one of them is meaningless?
What I would have prefered is not to have a single perfect outcome here (such as for instance getting the circle involved in the Redcliffe in Origins), but have there be at the very least two outcomes: one where she dies and where where she survives but is cripled... or something.
Whatever, I can probably come up with a better alternative outcome if I grab good bottle of scotch and think hard about it; but what I'm trying to say is that if all possible outcomes have consequences attached to it, the one where Leadra survives will not be viewed as "the perfect outcome". That and supplying multiple outcomes has the wonderfull advamtage of making the player feel like the actions of his/her character actually matter. Benefits all around!

I understand that due to time constraint the writers naturally can't implement everything they wanted to; but the way this is handled now it sort of feels half-assed and as an almost desperate attempt to introduce some "mages are evil!"-drama. I almost get sad when I look at that quest because it was something that could have been very interesting, but is now just one big pile of missed opportunity.

Modifié par Raygereio, 16 mars 2011 - 03:38 .

[tanerb123]

exactly, just because the game says here is your brother does not make you feel attached to him. when carver was killed by the ogre i did not feel anything because i had no clue who he was.

[henkez3]

Raygereio wrote...

henkez3 wrote...
So, do you folks agree with me or not?

Yes. The whole family aspect was probably the weakest element in DA2.

Edit; that was drive-by wasn't it? Let's fix that:

The first sibling that dies: what’s the point? Okay, Carver dies roughly 5 minutes after he’s appeared on screen. We’re not introduced to him, we know nothing about him; in other words, he’s effectively just faceless-melee-guy. I played the tutorial section, saved when I arrived in Kirkwall and started the game again 2 days later. When I then heard mommy Hawke going “Oh, poor Carver” I honestly had no clue who she was talking about at first. When you want to create drama, it helps when said drama is actually about something from the perspective of the player.
Also the old saying of “show, don’t tell” applies; don’t tell us we’re supposed to care about this, show us why. An example would be to have the tutorial level show the Hawkes as a family. Have Hawke set up the Hawke-twin’s birthday (Christ on a crutch, I just quoted Fable), or help Bethany hide from some templars, or get Carver to hide you. Once you establish that this is a family, ripping someone out of that family actually has some impact.

The second sibling that dies/goes away. He/She contracts the blight for no real discernable reason whatsoever. Yeah, yeah; fighting darkspawn is supposed to be dangerous because you can get infected with the taint. But why wasn't anyone else infected? A similar gameplay/story segregation was in Origins with your party, but there it could be ignored because no attention was drawn to it. When you have inconsistensies in your story, the last thing one should do is put a big spotlight on it.
Maybe the second sibling leaving if you don't take him/her with you into the deeproads will make more sense as it at least ties into the overall theme of mages vs templars, I haven't played that yet.
And for a gameplay perspective this entire thing is just a slap in the face to the player. Don’t bother wasting time and effort to make sure the sibling is properly equipped, has his/her tactics properly set up and get comfortable using him/her in your party setup as that’s all just a complete waste of time. Gee thanks.Taking away gameplay elements like that - especially when there is no real point to/ reason for it - just irks me.

And then there's mommy Hawke; I'll admit that her death does have some manner of impact to it the first time you play, though the particular nature in which it is done makes it almost silly instead of tragic. Here my main source of annoyance is the fixed outcome. This is especially annoying considering the multiple choices in the quest-chain leading up that moment. Why offer those choices at all if every single one of them is meaningless?
What I would have prefered is not to have a single perfect outcome here (such as for instance getting the circle involved in the Redcliffe in Origins), but have there be at the very least two outcomes: one where she dies and where where she survives but is cripled... or something.
Whatever, I can probably come up with a better alternative outcome if I grab good bottle of scotch and think hard about it; but what I'm trying to say is that if all possible outcomes have consequences attached to it, the one where Leadra survives will not be viewed as "the perfect outcome". That and supplying multiple outcomes has the wonderfull advamtage of making the player feel like the actions of his/her character actually matter. Benefits all around!

I understand that due to time constraint the writers naturally can't implement everything they wanted to; but the way this is handled now it sort of feels half-assed and as an almost desperate attempt to introduce some "mages are evil!"-drama. I almost get sad when I look at that quest because it was something that could have been very interesting, but is now just one big pile of missed opportunity.

I agree with you, well said.

The thing about carver/bethany dying at the beginning really didn't impact me at all either, my emotional connection with them were more less like the mage and soldier you join up with for a little while in the beginning of Origins when you go up the tower to light the brazier to signal the flanking attack at the battle of ostagar, that's how bethany/carver felt the first time I played DA2.

[RolandX9]

Frybread76 wrote...

This is why I think the game should have began in Lothering and shown Hawke growing up with his siblings. This would have made us care more about Carver and Bethany when bad things happened to them.

+1. There really, really needed to be a "life before the Blight" prologue. Get to know the Hawkes as people. See what life was like with an apostate (or two) in the family. End it with the call to head for Ostagar. To quote Mordin Solus, "not difficult."