137 réponses à ce sujet

[Looper128]

In my opinion. Mages are not as powerful as in origins, but they are in no way underpowered. And still loads of fun to play

[Gage123]

So a CCC setup mage explosion deals less damage than what a warrior could do just smashing stuff? That is...sad?

[7he0ch0]

Well with my spirit/entropy/force mage i was able to do over 30k worth of aoe damage heres the scenario.

Highest damage ive done was with a combo with anders, varric, and myself and first thing i did was pull the abyss a group of 5 and then cast gravatic ring, then anders uses winters blast to brittle one of them while varric disoriented the other 4 then i used maxed out bomb on the brittle enemy and then proceeded to basically one shot kill them with varric using archers lance on the brittle guy and doing 9875 damage with the lance taking out 2 other guys behind him for 790 damage and the 4 other disoriented guys with maxed out bomb damage of 4765 on all of them and thats including the main guy that it was on as well. so thats around 35280 damage total.

Mages are not underpowered by all means you just need to be smart and tactical on how to combo with them

Modifié par 7he0ch0, 17 mars 2011 - 12:16 .

[Invalidcode]

Nah mages are fun to play, but you need some plans to play one, kind of like Wizard in DnD.
Buffs, debuffs, CC and more CC, AoE, heal if you pursue it.

But if you are talking about damage only, mage should be the lowest out of three.

[SuicidalBaby]

pull of the abyss
grav
walking bomb
wintersgrasp

send in the next group please!

[Atmosfear3]

When I was playing my mage, I felt like I was the core of the party. I set up everyone to do their CCCs and threw in my own aoe for good measure. I was also the healer as well as the main source of crowd control.

I'd say mages are pretty damn good, at the very least they are more balanced than they were in origins.

[Nim998]

Not at all underpowered. They have the worst single target DPS, but in terms to AoE Damage, Healing, Support and Control they're either the best or close to it.

And as someone else pointed out they have the only "safe" AoE for Nightmare.

[dchsknight]

I persoanlly Beleive that Mages have the highest DPS of all the classes... HOWEVER I feel IMO that they are weak when you just single target down. I feel they do the most Dps when the mage uses his spells effectivly with Status changes. Watching for the dissorent and Stagger and all that jazz playing off of those things and working together to make all that work well.

[Wissenschaft]

x-president wrote...

W
I don't think they are underpowered.  Alot of the dps varies because it's a lot of elemental dmg.  They can do physical dmg, but I haven't tested them out yet.

I'll post some results with physical dmg staff.  I do know I was getting around 100 dps with elemental staffs even at lower levels.



But if you look at spells, you can easily get 1000k + dmg.  I know with Cone of Cold I've hit for 2200 to 2300 in a single shot.  With weaker enemies you can straight kill an entire group with one hit from Cone of Cold.

I would imagine with a warrior or rogue you probably couldn't do that.

With a 2h warrior built right for maximum burst damage you certainly can 1 shot enemies.

[termokanden]

You can do way more damage than 2300 with a rogue. Autoattack crits easily get higher than 1000, but special attacks can hit for many times that amount.

[Haplose]

No.

[Svest]

Even the "not nightmare friendly" aoe spells can be extremely powerful on nightmare if you plan properly for them. Things like elemental shroud + rally can seriously minimize the damage your party takes while your mage rains death. Fully upgraded battle synergy helps a ton too (bodyguard as well). A little bit of the right kind of resists on your gear/runes never hurts either. I made liberal use of spells like firestorm and walking bomb without having to worry too much about if it was going to hit my party. Of course this wouldn't have worked too well without Aveline.

[ZiggyT]

Mages seem to be like the 2h wars in DA:O.Not jaw droping by themselves,but you build a group with them in mind and they will drop your jaw

Modifié par ZiggyT, 17 mars 2011 - 06:21 .

[Loc'n'lol]

I think the elemental tree is pretty weak. That I can do 6 times as much damage with a basic fire grenade as I would with a fireball spell is a little... troubling...
And then we have the frost spells. Good crowd control / debuff, but terrible at setting up CCCs. You have a random chance to freeze enemies, and then a random chance that frozen enemies will become brittle. If you bought an upgrade. Depending on enemy rank. Contrast with warriors who can cause stagger without even using stamina, and have ways to apply 100% guaranteed stagger on bosses.

Well that's how it seems right now, at least. I'll see how this evolves with higher levels, but so far in my mage playthrough (just finished act 1) I feel quite less powerful than my rogue did at similar levels. That I used another mage in my party doesn't help things either.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 17 mars 2011 - 06:30 .

[Svest]

Fireball is just a bad spell. Firestorm is very powerful. Cone of cold can be very useful as well.

[Stardusk78]

2H Reaver Warrior+Vanguard is totally OP, even on Nightmare, you don't really need tactics with this build, your passive Fenzy and Fervor (200% damage x health loss+ 30% increase in attack speed per enemy killed) + sustained Frenzy (another 200% damage) make this almost unstoppable,the best part is that when you are at 25% or less health you are annihilated foes the most.

I don't really mind that mages are not 'OP'; they have the best CCCs in my opinion and are very versatile; example, current level 14 blood mage/force mage has 2 power spells for stagger and will get another one via Hemorage, then stone fist for disoriented enemies and enhanced spirit bolt; petrify let's either Fenris via Cleave or Varris via Archer's lance annihilated brittle foes...very versatile and great AOE (though Elemental sucks compared to Primal).

[Nagatsu]

I personally play mage and there aren't underpowered just more combo/crowd control. I remember on my first playthrough abusing Pull of the Abyss/ Cone of Cold and then having any brittle enemies from this combo cleaned up by Varric/Sebastian with Bursting Arrow. Its might dish out the outright damage of the other two classes but when it comes to effects it outweighs this in my book

[Altima Darkspells]

Mages are weaker than the other two classes. It basically boils down to a bunch of minor things that when added together make a rather large dent in the class.

Mages have good sustainables...but those sustainables eat heavily into their mana, due to them being percentage based.

They're good for setting up and taking advantage of AoE CCCs...but not without heavy investments (at least, what, eight skill points for elemental/primal mastery?). The other classes are not so limited, eventually being able to cause stagger and disorient with their basic attacks.

Mages are good at control...but the other classes can just outright kill most weaker critters or take out pecky elites by blinking at them. Why control when you can just outright kill?

Mages also got the crap end of the spectrum when it comes to specializations (which seems to be a running gag, giving mages the worst specialization in the game). Force Mage is fantastic, but Spirit Healer and Blood Mage are distinctly sub-par. Sure, they have their uses, but not being able to cast offensive spells or being forced to invest in willpower for armor just reduces their eligibility.

Really, the only thing a mage can do that the other classes can't really do is heal. Even Rogues and Warriors can do the support thing.

[SuicidalBaby]

Altima Darkspells wrote...
Mages have good sustainables...but those sustainables eat heavily into their mana, due to them being percentage based.

Turn sustains on after casting to a % that fits with the sustains %.

They're good for setting up and taking advantage of AoE CCCs...but not without heavy investments (at least, what, eight skill points for elemental/primal mastery?). The other classes are not so limited, eventually being able to cause stagger and disorient with their basic attacks.

3 points in Primal for upgraded Chain Ligntning, 5 if you want upgraded Petrify.  If you get Stone Armor, it is worth going full Primal tree for 2 more points.  4 points in Elemental for both Brittle upgrades, the full tree upgrade isn't worth it.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 17 mars 2011 - 08:20 .

[Zan Mura]

termokanden wrote...

I don't think my mage will ever outdamage my rogue, even with AoE attacks.

But that's not really the point. Mages are very good for combos and they have tons of crowd control as well.

I've seen figures like 20k crits with my rogue's STAGGER + Vendetta or BRITTLE + Ambush combos, so yeah I think it's pretty safe to say that a mage will *never* produce effects like that. Also any 2h cleave warrior can easily deal out 10x more AoE damage than a mage in a fraction of the time, with much more control and less risk of friendly fire or screwed up aggro management. But I think it's too far fetched to say that mages would be underpowered. Just that they're very, very tricky to play.

Coming from games like D&D and DAO where magic is incredibly powerful, I have to be honest and admit that the magics your player has available in DA2 definitely falls short of what the lore is trying to teach us. The enemy mages can permacast Barrier and use exclusive AoE's that will instantly wipe almost anything, but the player mages won't even come close to that. So they definitely do feel weak. A lone mage is nothing without their team, so having people fear them as much as they do doesn't really make sense considering the gameplay. As team players however, their utility support is amazing. Basically they can provide warriors and rogues with external support that the classes desperately need, but cannot get for themselves.

STAGGER + Crushing Prison, Petrify, Barrier, Heal, Dispel are all very essential tools. The Glyphs offer some awesome extra crowd control. But to be honest, if there was a mod that flat out doubled all damage dealt by a mage, I would likely pick it up just "because". Even with 200% more damage than normal, I still don't think mages would feel overpowered. But I reserve my right to take my word back on that, since I really don't presume to know the full game yet. Only played through almost twice now, once in Nightmare which is still in the finale.

[Malanek]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...
And then we have the frost spells. Good crowd control / debuff, but terrible at setting up CCCs. You have a random chance to freeze enemies, and then a random chance that frozen enemies will become brittle. If you bought an upgrade. Depending on enemy rank.

The Elemental mastery changes the chance of becoming brittle to 100% when frozen. So upgraded Winters Grasp is 100% brittle for normal enemies. Cone of Cold is 60% and of course can hit multiple enemies so goes reasonably well with Mighty blow/shattering blow, scythe/reaper, claymore, Bursting arrow/shattering arrow, and archers lance/punishing lance which are all aoe effects.

[Loc'n'lol]

Zan Mura wrote...
STAGGER + Crushing Prison, Petrify, Barrier, Heal, Dispel are all very essential tools. The Glyphs offer some awesome extra crowd control. But to be honest, if there was a mod that flat out doubled all damage dealt by a mage, I would likely pick it up just "because". Even with 200% more damage than normal, I still don't think mages would feel overpowered. But I reserve my right to take my word back on that, since I really don't presume to know the full game yet. Only played through almost twice now, once in Nightmare which is still in the finale.

I think what mages lack is something like spell might (or cleave if you want a DA2 comparison). Maybe double all damage done but double the cost of casting too while active. That would also make blood magic much more relevant.

Malanek999 wrote...

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...
And
then we have the frost spells. Good crowd control / debuff, but terrible
at setting up CCCs. You have a random chance to freeze enemies, and
then a random chance that frozen enemies will become brittle. If you
bought an upgrade. Depending on enemy rank.

The Elemental
mastery changes the chance of becoming brittle to 100% when frozen. So
upgraded Winters Grasp is 100% brittle for normal enemies. Cone of Cold
is 60% and of course can hit multiple enemies so goes reasonably well
with Mighty blow/shattering blow, scythe/reaper, claymore, Bursting
arrow/shattering arrow, and archers lance/punishing lance which are all
aoe effects.

Yes, I'm aiming for that, but at the present time, my level 13 mage could not afford to buy this upgrade yet (next level most likely). Contrast shield pummel and its low level requirements, low cost, 100% stagger chance no matter the enemy rank, and 10s cooldown.

I hated how mages were (potentially) full of cheese in DAO and avoided them in my party as much as possible, but I think the nerf stick has been a little too hard, especially since they're really quite vulnerable now.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 17 mars 2011 - 08:36 .

[KodiakAsh]

The real benefit of a mage comes into play is with lines like Entropy where the CC and debuffs are absurd and improve the entire party. Death Hex is amazing. Horror completely destroys enemy casters and even some bosses. Some crazy stuff in the Arcane line to boost your party.

That said there are some good combos you can pull off, such as Gravmatic Ring (sucks them all in), Fist of the Maker (stuns/knockdowns everything while in a pile), then Winter's Grasp (Freezes everything together).

Just the same however it's not DA:O where you could chuck out a Fireball every few seconds and wipe out whole waves of enemies. Just isn't that kind of game for the mage, especially once you get onto Nightmare settings where half the AOE in the game will destroy your own party (personally I went with Hard).

By the time I was at the final part of Act 3 I was damn close to respecing my guy into Spirit Healer/Creation/Entropy and just controlling the NPCs since the Rogue (Isabella) and the Warrior (Fenris) were way more fun to play.

[Malanek]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...
Yes, I'm aiming for that, but at the present time, my level 13 mage could not afford to buy this upgrade yet (next level most likely). Contrast shield pummel and its low level requirements, low cost, 100% stagger chance no matter the enemy rank, and 10s cooldown.

I guess you need to look at it from both sides. Although Stagger is easier to set up at a lower level, to actually take advanatge of it well, takes more time. I actually think you get Brittle combos going earlier if you gun for it but thats just a gut feeling, I haven't analysed it.

Edit : Just browsing through the list I see Merciless strike does come available quite quickly. Not a huge fan of it but the combo is available very early.

Modifié par Malanek999, 17 mars 2011 - 08:59 .

[KodiakAsh]

Huge stagger combinations come from Warrior 2H lines mostly with Vanguard>Claymore and the base line 2H line 40% on critical hit (powerful with Death Hex). Line it up with Fist of the Maker or Chain Lightning and those become very powerful.