87 réponses à ce sujet

[Beaynid]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

By the end of the game, Aveline is the only family Hawke has left.

Um...? If you romance Isabela, she's the only family you have left. It varies.

well you always have gamlen lol, and if you do his quest you also have his daughter(your cousin)

but bethany, gamlen, and isabela were my family, with varric and merril as adopted family.  merril is like a even littler sister than bethany, and varric is like a cousin.

[Maria Caliban]

I have no idea if I'd be sexually attracted to non-humans in real life. I'd like to think I would be.

As for blood magic... In the most superficial sense, I wouldn't care because in the real world, cutting yourself to do magic has no negative connotations.

However, to really answer that question, I'd have to re-imagine human history with actual mages. I assume modern life would be radically different. It's very possible I'd be terrified of her.

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

Um...? If you romance Isabela, she's the only family you have left. It varies.

Isabela never suggests she's your family. Your lover or friend? Sure. Only Aveline does so.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 16 mars 2011 - 10:12 .

[Aynslie]

Anders and Isabela are horrible friends, I agree. They lie and use Hawke to get what they want. Isabela at least has some redeeming qualities and in the end has your back.

Merrill doesn't lie to you at all and is up front about what she intends to do. If you have to kill her clan that was your choices. I never had too, and still helped her.

Fenris is only a bad friend if he is rival, and at that point he isn't even that bad until the end. He will turn on you if you choose the mages, but really that is to be expected. Friend Fenris doesn't abandon you and will help you try to save the mages.

Aveline is a good friend to Hawke. She couldn't allow criminals, no matter who they were, to hide behind the Qunari. It would only have shown that real hard core criminals could do the same to escape justice. She was in a tough spot and asked her friend for help, and she was up front with Hawke about there possibly being trouble about it.

Varric is a true friend. I call him Hawke's buddy.

Dog chews on furniture...probably expensive furniture.

Sebastian will turn on you, as well, if Anders' life is spared. Can't blame him there really, but still, there was a crisis going on.

The only real BAD friend is Anders. All the others depends on how Hawke is treating them.

Besides look at all the crap Hawke drags them through....

[Trixsy]

Title should be worst friends in "my" playthrough ever XD

In mine, Fenris abandoned me at first because he didn't want to help the mages, but then when you get to talk to him again he returned to help me because we were buddies.

I don't consider Aveline entirely at fault for the qunari situation since she's just trying to do her job... though it did surprise me that the elves had gotten nowhere using legitimate channels. The true instigator of the whole qunari issue was Isabela and I blame her fully for it.

Merrill's clan wasn't killed in my playthrough, though the poor girl was very sad and pretty much permanently exiled.

Anders' betrayal wasn't as bad as Isabela's (she abandoned me in Act 2 since I told her I planned on giving the artifact back to the Arishok) but his actions caused the most damage, not only in Kirkwall, but in Thedas.

[ejoslin]

Aynslie wrote...

Fenris is only a bad friend if he is rival, and at that point he isn't even that bad until the end. He will turn on you if you choose the mages, but really that is to be expected. Friend Fenris doesn't abandon you and will help you try to save the mages.

Rival Fenris ALSO doesn't abandon you and will stay and help you save the mages.  He leaves if your approval is in the middle, in which case you're not either a close friend or a respected rival.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 mars 2011 - 10:25 .

[Hrodric]

Maria Caliban wrote...

The most interesting characters in BioWare games are the ones I wouldn't associate with in real life. I adore Morrigan, but wouldn't get near her in reality. Leliana turns me to goo, but I'm pretty sure if my R/L girlfriend used to seduce people to murder them and now thought god spoke to her, I'd quickly (but gently) break up with her and change the locks on my door.

No use; she's a rogue!  

You'll have a better chance of changing your hair, clothes, name, address, occupation....

[Blacklash93]

I'm sure the writers are very sorry they didn't make every companion storyline a frolic through a field of flowers and rainbows.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 16 mars 2011 - 11:49 .

[Valtauran]

When it comes to the bomb bit, its called 'plausable deniability' if you had no idea about it, you wouldn't be arrested for it....thats likely why he did what he did.

In the end, the party members that wanted revenge for one reason or another was just outright weak, its easy to hate and judge someone, but it takes strength to forgive.

Learnt that when i was a child, too much of my mother preaching. (her being religious and all that)

[Noatz]

Most of this comes down to your individual decisions. For example Fenris won't abandon you for siding with the mages if you took the time to become his friend and help him out - even says things like "not all mages are weak - Hawke isn't weak." brings a tear to the eye...

Aveline can hardly be blamed for what happened with the Arishok. She didn't cause the rapes of the elves and I reeeeeeeally doubt would stand by and allow it to happen had she known. She does however take her duty very seriously - as does the Arishok - and so feels compelled to reclaim them to face the cities justice. Not really what I would call explicitely negative character traits.

Isabella will not always abandon you depending on friendship. And it isn't clear if she was aware of the exact implications of stealing the relic. Of course she did keep it after she found out which does imply a certain lack of regard for the greater good - even at the end she is more concerned with saving herself than averting any conflict that could (and does) claim many lives. But all this means is shes selfish, which is not uncommon.

There's not much to be said for defending Anders however. You can I suppose argue that he isn't himself anymore and that Justice has changed him, but he himself says he could no more ignore the injustice of the Circle himself than Justice could. Whether this response itself is coloured by Justice is unknown, but regardless of that hes still a dangerous fanatic whos condition cannot be reversed. And yes, a ****ty friend

[Zenstrive]

They are friends, true, and not just some people that tag along with you.

Aveline: help her help you gain more influences by becoming captain of the guard and turn the other way when you do your things.

Fenris: big sword. BIG SWORD!

Merril: AOE damage without any friendly fire. A little innocent. Elf.

Anders: Ressurects, heals, sends lightnings from heaven, petrify mob bosses. Useful. A bit extreme.

Varrick: there for the laugh.

Isabela: the sexiest woman in Kirkwall is part of your entourage,

[sylvanaerie]

Fenris never left my mage. He told her he was with her all the way (Friendship romance).
Merrill's clan chose to believe me when Hawke told them she would take responsibility for her. So no Dalish slaughter.
Isabella didn't abscond with the book at the end of Act 2 (though her actions caused the war to spark in the first place). And she DID come back at the last minute to hand it over. I made the choice of dueling the Arishok when he wouldn't just leave with the damn thing and let Isabella go.
Anders, okay he pissed me off a lot and he's probably going to be murderknifed every playthrough. There's no way you can do anything in the game to keep him from pulling his particular brand of crazy in Act 3
Aveline was a steadfast friend from Lothering to the end battle, never leaving Hawke's side and the only companion (in a non-romanced game) who comforts you after the loss of your mother.
Varric who loyally tells your story and hopefully embellishes the hell out of it and glosses over the failures.
Carver whines and complains about your shadow overshadowing him most of the game but stands up to Meredith (if he becomes a templar) joins you if a GW at the end.
Sebastian, nice enough guy as long as you kill Anders. Which I do. Guess that makes me not such a good friend but *shrug* Its not a matter of what Sebastian wants, we just happen to both agree that what Anders did was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I have yet to do any rivalry runthroughs. Are you sure you didn't completely ****** all of them off OP?

[NinjaRogue]

I am a man of second chances, and once Isabela came back and gave the book to Arishok, I forgave her, and then killed him.

Yeaaah, Anders is getting killed this time around. I murder knifing him with joy.

Aveline and Donnic 'nuff said.

Fenris can go be Edward Cullen for all I care.

Merrill.....she is funny and awkward.

best set of companions ever!

[NinjaRogue]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have no idea if I'd be sexually attracted to non-humans in real life. I'd like to think I would be.

As for blood magic... In the most superficial sense, I wouldn't care because in the real world, cutting yourself to do magic has no negative connotations.

However, to really answer that question, I'd have to re-imagine human history with actual mages. I assume modern life would be radically different. It's very possible I'd be terrified of her.

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

Um...? If you romance Isabela, she's the only family you have left. It varies.

Isabela never suggests she's your family. Your lover or friend? Sure. Only Aveline does so.

Valid point, but what about what Hawke (me) considers to be family?

When your Mom dies and you have her Romanced, pick I am an Orphan and she will say "You have a lot of people that care for you. Like...Aveline" You can tell she wanted to say her but was to afraid that she would hurt you.

Modifié par NinjaRogue, 17 mars 2011 - 07:21 .

[dreman9999]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

By the end of the game, Aveline is the only family Hawke has left.

The Hawke brothers made glory happen too. And Carver never stabbed my Hawke in the back either, despite incessant whining.

Still, they separate after the end of the game (Hawke and Aveline).

Aveline never stabbed my PC in the back.

Carver was a jerk from soup to nuts. He constantly threw his anger and bitterness in my face, even after our mother died.

My Carver constantly thank me for making him a gray waeden and stood at my back till the end.

[dreman9999]

Aynslie wrote...

Anders and Isabela are horrible friends, I agree. They lie and use Hawke to get what they want. Isabela at least has some redeeming qualities and in the end has your back.

Merrill doesn't lie to you at all and is up front about what she intends to do. If you have to kill her clan that was your choices. I never had too, and still helped her.

Fenris is only a bad friend if he is rival, and at that point he isn't even that bad until the end. He will turn on you if you choose the mages, but really that is to be expected. Friend Fenris doesn't abandon you and will help you try to save the mages.

Aveline is a good friend to Hawke. She couldn't allow criminals, no matter who they were, to hide behind the Qunari. It would only have shown that real hard core criminals could do the same to escape justice. She was in a tough spot and asked her friend for help, and she was up front with Hawke about there possibly being trouble about it.

Varric is a true friend. I call him Hawke's buddy.

Dog chews on furniture...probably expensive furniture.

Sebastian will turn on you, as well, if Anders' life is spared. Can't blame him there really, but still, there was a crisis going on.

The only real BAD friend is Anders. All the others depends on how Hawke is treating them.

Besides look at all the crap Hawke drags them through....

My Fenir tuned on me when I side with the Mages but at the Gallowa, I guilt trip him back to my side by making him remember thestory of the freedom fight he had to kill.

[dreman9999]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Aveline never stabbed my PC in the back.

Carver was a jerk from soup to nuts. He constantly threw his anger and bitterness in my face, even after our mother died.

I took Aveline with Anders and Varric into the Fade. Try that.

Carver is what a brother is like. In the end he is still loyal to you.

"You'll have to go through me!" - Carver to Meredith

In the end, I consider Carver, Aveline, Merrill, Fenris, and of course Varric as my friends. Isabella run off - I don't hate her, but I have no respect for her either.

The only person whose betrayal really saddened me was Anders. I thought I had talked some sense into him. I almost romanced him too, but pulled out in the last minute because I felt he was a bit too unstable. I expected him to commit suicide or something, that his separation from Justice might fail and he might die. Turns out I underestimated the healer's evil side.

The OP's argument against Aveline is invalid. She's doing her job and it's perfectly in her character. I did not bring Merrill into the Fade because I knew she's too naive to resist demonic temptation. As for Fenris, I sided with the Templars so he's perfectly loyal to me.

I feel happy and satisfied with my group of flawed but lovable friends in DA2. Perhaps the lesson here (one that the OP missed) is that friendship is founded on understanding and forgiveness.

Isabela came back for me and is still with me in the end.

[Hrodric]

Zenstrive wrote...
Isabela: the sexiest woman in Kirkwall is part of your entourage,

No way. Merrill is the sexiest woman in all the Free Marches. 

When the going gets tough, when everyone thinks it's over, when everyone rethinks their luck at being with you--she's the only one who still believes in you. THAT's a keeper.

... oh, and dog. With all the family deaths, could you imagine if the dog died too?? That would probably send people over the edge irl. 

[fiber4now]

Well what can you say about a bunch of companions that are so schizophrenic and bad to the bone that when approaching any shop or building other then the Hangman the shop Keepers would probably close the shutters and post a close sign on the door.

I can not believe that so many here have not come up with the true injustice that Aveline carried out which brought on a very negitive consequence for Hawke.

Do you remember early in the game you are tasked to capture what turns out to be the son of the commissioner. Well right up front your Hawke is shown how little Humans care about the rights of the elves and how simple it was to pay a few gold pieces instead of giving the elves their rights. At the time Aveline may not have been the captain of the guard but she still was part of the corruption and prejudice that was expressed towards the elves. So when she came off as doing only the will of justice when she would not see reason, I believed at the time Aveline's stance  was more of the same Elves had no rights or elves were held by gold bribes to a higher justice standard then Humans.

Yes I could hold Aveline responsible for the straw that broke the camels back at that point but I really did not care since anyone playing this game had a Hawke that was a warrior, who did not mind fighting to solve problems his or her companions started.

What should have made Aveline, Hawke's bitter enemy,  Aveline's very poor detective work that would have saved Hawke's mother if she had any concern for a serial killer in Kirkwell. Hawke brought her back a bag of bones in the first chapter of the quest and yet Aveline showed no concern even though these remains were found by her friend Hawke. Second and more damaging to Aveline is the shoddy search that was performed by her guards. Smelled of corruption to me that Aveline was part of, since it took Hawke about two seconds to find evidence of guilt when he did his search.

Lastly after Hawke's mother is killed and you meet with Aveline she immediately response in anger when you blame her for your mothers death. why would she respond  that way?
 
I would imagine confusion would be your first response since you wouldn't know what Hawke was talking about, only the knowledge of your guilt would have you act that way. Remember back to the beginning of the game when the previous Captain of the Guard used anger instead of innocence or confusion when he was going down for his role in government corruption.

At the end when the first Enchanter confesses to have known the serial killers it is an admittance that there was corruption from almost the top of the food chain, so possibly Aveline was used as a pawn and may not have been paid a bag full of gold but it does not change the fact that by corruption or stupidity Aveline was to blame for the death of Hawke's mother.  This had to be why the writers made this such a large part of the drama they must have wanted to know how long it would take for you to realize with Aveline you had a two face snake in your pocket

[slashthedragon]

deleted--somehow hot the wrong post ><;

Modifié par slashthedragon, 04 avril 2012 - 01:22 .

[esper]

The da2 friends are so loyal to Hawke that even Aveline who has specifically stated that she and Hawkes frinedship were effectively over whent he whole mage crisis was solved. Still she didn't betray my Hawke. How bloody neutral does she needs to be. That Fenris and Isabella stuck by my Hawke tells me that they do respect her and a true friends.

[ManOfSteeL1618]

Wulfram wrote...

In fairness, my Hawke is a pretty awful friend too.
Anders - Killed
Isabela - Would have killed if she had the opportunity.
Sebastian - Helped kill the grand cleric.
Merrill - Indulged her on the whole blood magic/mirror thing because she loved her, despite knowing in her heart of hearts that it was stupid and going to result in disaster.
Carver - Left behind from the expedition because Aveline was more useful and Anders was a warden.

Why in the world would you want to kill The Isabela?!