171 réponses à ce sujet

[CMP023]

Oh, youre right. Sorry about that, I totally forgot . Nvm that then.

It is cool to find such topics where its not  total nuclear assault between hardcore fanboys and haters. That is mostly the reason I almost never post on the forums. I preffer to mellow out and talk like grown ups about our hobby. 

Modifié par CMP023, 17 mars 2011 - 05:07 .

[Lord_Saulot]

Right, both KOTOR2 and NWN2 were made by Obsidian, which suggests to me that at that time they had a relationship of some sorts with Bioware. I wonder if that is still the case?

[Mx_CN3]

Like many others, I think you make many great points, though I also disagree with your general take on the combat system. Then again, I am more of an action-oriented player myself, so I can appreciate that not everyone thinks it's an improvement.

I think that if anyone ever wants a review of Dragon Age 2, they should skip the "professional" game review sites and articles and just be redirected here, as you do a fantastic job of addressing nearly every aspect of the game in a cohesive and thorough manner (and legible) manner.

[Montana]

Phew, just read the whole thing, and I agree with most of what you said.
I especially like the last two sections (series direction and conclusion).

Well written and many valid points.
Bravo!

[PicassoBlue]

@Lord_Saulot: Dude, I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed reading your essay. In an era when most people are so lazy that they’ll abbreviate “too long; didn’t read,” it was like finding an emerald in a sack of malachite. Your writing reminds me a little bit of the exacting style of the late, great Gary Gygax.

My only substantial disagreement with you is over the conversation system in DA2, which I see as markedly inferior to the original. In reality, people don’t converse by selecting from a menu of unconnected statements that they can return to at any time. Instead, conversations branch outward, and the progress of the discussion opens and closes potential dialogue options. So, I found it jarring to see my DA2 character conversing by making a series of disjointed statements, especially when I had little control over what precise words he would use. I see the conversation wheel as a concession to the limitations of console gamepads, and it definitely detracted from my roleplaying experience.

Modifié par PicassoBlue, 17 mars 2011 - 05:58 .

[Dermain]

PicassoBlue wrote...

@Lord_Saulot: Dude, I can’t tell you how much I enjoyed reading your essay. In an era when most people are so lazy that they’ll abbreviate “too long; didn’t read,” it was like finding an emerald in a sack of malachite. Your writing reminds me a little bit of the exacting style of the late, great Gary Gygax.

My only substantial disagreement with you is over the conversation system in DA2, which I see as markedly inferior to the original. In reality, people don’t converse by selecting from a menu of unconnected statements that they can return to at any time. Instead, conversations branch outward, and the progress of the discussion opens and closes potential dialogue options. So, I found it jarring to see my DA2 character conversing by making a series of disjointed statements, especially when I had little control over what precise words he would use. I see the conversation wheel as a concession to the limitations of console gamepads, and it definitely detracted from my roleplaying experience.

Just to go the other way with your comment about conversations:

People do not converse by selecting a pre-generated sentence, supposedly delivering it completely emotionless, and then hearing the same exact response they would have gotten had they selected one of the other pre-generated dialogue options.

On to the combat:

The combat in DA2 is a vast improvement over Origins only if you play it on console(I hate my crappy computer). While the combat in Origins was "dumbed" down for console, it was still pretty much the same experience, but definetly more awkward. The attack speed debuff bug in DA2 is, in my opinion, the closest a person can come to experiencing how Origins combat was on console. That's not to say Origins wasn't unplayable, but it did get tedious during the night battle at Redcliffe and the final parts of the game at Denerim. In that way at least the combat in DA2 is a vast improvement over Origins.

The "random"(while the spawns appear random, they do generally occur in the same area each time) spawning of enemy waves is a bit annoying, I think it works far better on console than on PC.

[L6-636536]

Agree on almost everything you posted Good Read.
However for Combat I loved how much faster it was compared to Origins which was in my opinion painfully slow despite the tactical pacing designed for it and too many abilities felt like clone abilities. (Mages in specific)
But what I disliked the most was that combat was so fast I barely had any use or reason to use those skills and the wave system reinforced this against me as every guy was basically a small guy so blowing all my things just came naturally rather then saving my CD's for the big guys.

As for warriors losing dual wielding and archery I totally agree on that although I didn't mind that it went away, but the removal of dual wielding was just outright silly for Warriors.

Completely agree with the simplification of the inventory imho it was the worst part of Mass Effect 2. I would have loved companion / Hawke specific armor to emphasis a preference in style and utility for their characters and maintain their iconic style (DA:O Morrigan) but still having the ability to change out what they wore.
I could see it done by just 'refitting' what their wearing such as Aveline having less plating or more plating and simple recolors.

[HighlandBerserkr]

Wow that was a lengthy and incredibly thought out post, I agree with many of your posts, and disagree with few, of course the difference being I am playing on a lowly console

The biggest issue I have is with the cut and paste dungeons and I do miss some of the detail In Design from Origins.

A small thing I don't like and something you touched upon in your review is how stats affect armor etc.. For example I play a two handed warrior and strength is pretty much all that matters and In Origins I could pump all my points inti strength and still be able to wear the best armour, now in Dragon Age 2 con is the requirement for armour, so now I have to put at least 15 points into con in order to wear better armour, that's 15 points I would rather put into strength.

I might post other points as I think of them but for now it's bed time

[Flurdt Vash]

Wow Dude. That was in depth, but I gotta say, Im with you.

[Lafiniel]

gave it a read damn thats aloot of text wall.

hmm a very intrigueing read i guess is the word for it.
i do agree on various points u have made.
i for one dont miss traps though i find them most annoying and even if i use them myself! or craft them.
As for inventory yes a missing for plot items that was a flaw. and the junk items meeeh why even put them there waste of program code.
and the slots for invetory i dont like the limit here i mean monster drop aloot of items and theres not that much time to go to a store and sell items in the middle of the Deep Roads.
unlimited inventory or at least limit the items to "usefull" being spammed by white items that has bad stats isent the way to go in my oppinion

anyways good read

[Rumtruffle]

too long. didnt read.

ill just say i like the faster paced combat and i really like the story, including the ending. i dont even know if that was part of your post or not.

[Bachmors]

Ok ... read through it. And I agree with pretty much everything except the combat part (I'm a rpg-player on the pc since Baldurs Gate btw).

I think that the example used was how unnecessary were all the
individual books depicted in the background of the Circle Tower. I disagree strongly with this. That sense
of detail and complexity is largely what made Origins not just an enjoyable game, but a masterful game.

I wholeheartedly agree. The little things and the hidden corners and details made Dragon Age: Origins so great. I posted on another aspect of this problem yesterday: http://social.biowar...87861/1#6590242

However, that reminds me of a rather odd choice: why do specializations require no unlocking now?

Good question. Why doesn't anyone of my party comment on the fact that I just used blood magic in combat?

I have seen a few criticisms of the story on the forums, but overall I thought the story was quite good, in fact,
better than Origins.

Indeed. I prefer the story of DA2, not the rather "generic" story of Dragon Age: Origins with the ancient evil to defeat.

However, I would prefer that you could have some discussions with companions at your own prodding, instead of just
as part of specific quests.

Yes, I miss this a lot.

But in Dragon Age 2, the majority of encounters involve a system where, when you have almost defeated the enemies, a whole swarm of new ones appear, often out of nowhere, coming from all directions.

I absolutely hated this "feature", it completely destroyed the immersion (along with the ridiculous exploding corpses).

But on the PC, the loss of the detachable camera makes controlling a party in combat clumsy and awkward in
comparison to the fine control one had in Origins. I do not think that is what Bioware wanted in this case,
and I hope they will reconsider this decision.

Another thing that has made the combat less visceral is the loss of the finishers.

I agree with these two points. The loss of the detachable camera is horrible and the exploding corpses are ridiculous.

But apart from that, I really love the direction the combat is going. So I have to disagree with your opinion that faster = worse. It feels much more intense now and I enjoy every fight I can find and look forward to it.

But they overdid it slightly. The rogue teleporting and jumping and the warrior charges should be toned down a bit, so that you can see the movement (the warrior and rogue running very fast towards the enemy ... If someone charges you in combat from a distance of 5 metres, he is very fast on top of you with simple sprinting, no need for a "teleport"). I really hope Bioware decides to put a bit more emphasis on realism in the next game without slowing it down too much.

In short: Keep the fast paced, intense tactical combat. But please get rid of the waves of enemies, the exploding corpses and the "teleports".

It seems most people agree that fast-paced combat is great, as long as the realism isn't thrown overboard (teleports, exploding corpses, ridiculous over-the-top jumps by rogues).
Seriously Bioware, bring back the realism please!

Modifié par Bachmors, 17 mars 2011 - 09:53 .

[Iron---Man]

A well written essay, i believe. The length mattered not to me. Giving praise to good decisions, and explaining perceived bad decisions in a rational matter, without resorting to bashing.

And fwiw - i absolutely positively agree on the Shield Bash issue. I explained that in another post of mine several days ago, nearly the same way you did in this essay.

My compliments to your post, sir! If i were a dev, id be reading these sort of posts with much more enthusiasm than any of the other posts which are mostly over the top and not constructive in the slightest.

[LoneStalker]

@Lord_Saulot,

Thank you, I mean it.

[elenilote]

I have no issues with random enemy spwaning. Until DA:O I mostly played FF where random-enemy-spawning is norm rather than exception. 

[L33TDAWG]

I loved how the chat changed depending on your overall dialogue choice.

[elenilote]

...and the backchat is brilliant - though nothing tops Alistair/Morrigan ****ing!

[Lord_Saulot]

Thank you all for the comments! I am glad that even those who disagree with me on various aspects of the game can find something worthwhile in my post.

A few people have mentioned console gameplay. Personally, I am glad that Bioware put some effort into trying to improve gameplay for the console. I want the console versions to be the best that they can be. But I also want the PC version to be the best it can be, and I am not sure that the same design considerations work well on the different platforms.

@Bachmors: Thank you for the link to your thread. I will take a look! Regarding your other comments, I think if they toned down the speed a little bit and put the realism back into the animations and aesthetic style, I might not mind the speed so much. A middle ground is possible between Origins and DA2, and we both might like that. Also, if they restored the detachable camera, the speed might not matter as much to me.

@elenilote: I have only played older Final Fantasy games. The last one I played was FF8. I do not know about the newer ones, but the older games were basically turn-based games with very limited positioning (usually front row or back row) so combat worked very differently than it does in this type of game. But, thank you for your perspective.

[Bachmors]

@Bachmors: Thank you for the link to your thread. I will take a look! Regarding your other comments, I think if they toned down the speed a little bit and put the realism back into the animations and aesthetic style, I might not mind the speed so much. A middle ground is possible between Origins and DA2, and we both might like that. Also, if they restored the detachable camera, the speed might not matter as much to me.

Yes, that's what I mean: The middle ground between Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age 2 - fast, but realistic with a detachable camera :-)

[Lord_Saulot]

Well, hopefully they will try that out next round.

[mokponobi]

Wow, that was a long read, I like your well thought out assessment of the game.

[Abston82]

I made it to the class part, I actually like rogues better now. My DA:O group was two mages and a 2h dps warrior. My dps in DA2 (hard difficulty) is 2 rogues (sebastian and isabela) and 1 mage healer. I just like the rogue synergy with tanks a lot in DA2, I also don't think I am buying some stuff I'll never use to get to something that is really good.

[elenilote]

@Lord_Saulot welcome

[KealaFerret]

It's long, and I skimmed parts of it, but it's thorough and includes solid examples. This is the kind of feedback that I love to see people posting as it's helpful. Nice work!

[Vicious]

The voiced protagonist was one of the pluses in Dragon Age 2. I expect to see it again in Dragon Age 3.