171 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord_Saulot]

I think that depends on what kind of game Dragon Age 3 is meant to be. During the period before Origins' release, Bioware defended their not having a voiced protagonist by explaining that there were design limitations that would result. In Dragon Age 2, they were willing to accept those limitations to accomplish their design goals. But what goals will they have for Dragon Age 3?

Personally, I fear that if we always have a voiced protagonist, we will not get a choices of races back. I don't mind having to be human in this game, but I don't want it to be that way in every game.

[jackygates]

I read the whole thing and I gotta say wow! You took some of my thoughts and made them sound better than I could of ever relay them hehe. I did play the Demo on PC and i do agree with the camera aspect but I bought the game for PS3 but still great job I still wish the unlocking of Specs like DA:O was in this game it would make me me feel I accomplished and was rewarded. Well done Lord_Saulot!!! BEST POST EVER!! lol

[Lord_Saulot]

Thank you Jackygates! If you would like, feel free to share your opinions on the PS3 version and how it differed from the PC version/demo.

[Lord_Saulot]

I thought of another change I would like to discuss. In Origins, weapons and armor were arranged into tiers, while in DA2, there were no tiers and their armor rating or dps were particular to the item and not the tier. I kind of liked the tiers, but I am not sure they contributed anything substantial, so I am not surprised that Bioware got rid of them.

Additionally, armor in Origins could be mage robes, light, medium, heavy, and massive. In DA2, we essentially have mage armor, rogue armor, and warrior armor. Personally, my rogues ended up in light armor in Origins, and my warriors in heavy armor, so the DA2 change was effectively cutting out the medium and heavy armor. Also, since all companions have fixed armor, having too many kinds of armor would have been pointless. However, I would have preferred that Bioware better defined niches for what kind of character should wear medium or heavy armor, rather than just loosing the concepts.

Also, it seemed like the amount of armor sets in the game was drastically limited.

[DrFumb1ezX]

Hey, I'm back. But in response to the voiced protagonist, I think that now that Bioware has distinct accents for different races ( ex: Dalish- Irish/Welsh), they may be able to make multiple-voiced Wardens. After all, I wouldn't mind having my City Elf talk with an Irish accent. It would finally give him an excuse to get drunk!

Or they'll kill off the Warden in a totally epic way that saves Hawke's life. Either way works for me.

[Lord_Saulot]

Nice to see you again! I agree, it would be nice to have an Elven warden with the new accents! But, what I fear is that more voice actors recording largely the same lines would be seen as a prohibitive expense. In DA2, two actors recorded Hawke's lines, one male and one female. In a game with the other races available, would we need six (two for each race)? Or even more (if we have different Origins that need to sound distinct)? Would Bioware want to use their time and money that way? And, if they did, what other areas of the game would suffer?

[DrFumb1ezX]

Good points, but now i'm so hooked on my Irish-sounding, drunken, sarcastic Warden that i must have him. He and my sarcastic Hawke would make a better pair than Alistair and Varric. (not really)

The cost would only really be relevant if the Warden is the main character next time. There is no way they put all that story into Hawke, and expect you not to have him back.

Plus, Bioware is such a diverse company that they may be able to pull it off. I believe that DA:O and DA2 were just the warm-ups to an even better game. If they manage to fuse the good points of both games, I will be more than content, I'll be genuinely thrilled.

[Lord_Saulot]

Good point! If they can incorporate good points from both games into a third, that would make me very happy.

[Punahedan]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

I think that depends on what kind of game Dragon Age 3 is meant to be. During the period before Origins' release, Bioware defended their not having a voiced protagonist by explaining that there were design limitations that would result. In Dragon Age 2, they were willing to accept those limitations to accomplish their design goals. But what goals will they have for Dragon Age 3?

Personally, I fear that if we always have a voiced protagonist, we will not get a choices of races back. I don't mind having to be human in this game, but I don't want it to be that way in every game.

Lord_Saulot wrote...

what I
fear is that more voice actors recording largely the same lines would
be seen as a prohibitive expense. In DA2, two actors recorded Hawke's
lines, one male and one female. In a game with the other races
available, would we need six (two for each race)? Or even more (if we
have different Origins that need to sound distinct)? Would Bioware want
to use their time and money that way? And, if they did, what other
areas of the game would suffer?

Pretty much this.

I am hoping they're going with what suits the game they want to create. I hardly think each game needs to reinvent the wheel. Each game is its own monster and should be treated accordingly.

That said, it'd be expensive to give the variety DAO did and have different voice-overs for each. But it'd be kind of... terrible to give one voice-over, even if we ignore the accents. So when backed into a corner, the choice becomes... spend a lot of time and money, probably more than the result justifies, making multiple voice-overs. Or, eliminiate choosing between species in future games. I'm hoping neither happens. If I am required to play only one species, I'd rather it be for story purposes, or story purposes that work within the budget, not because of the budget only.

Besides, as great as Jo Wyatt was, I really prefer having a silent protagonist, though I realize that's a dying camp these days. There is something to be said for hearing the snarky or sad line voiced.

[Lord_Saulot]

Hawkeyed Cai Li wrote...

Besides, as great as Jo Wyatt was, I really prefer having a silent protagonist, though I realize that's a dying camp these days. There is something to be said for hearing the snarky or sad line voiced.

Good points.  Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages.  My fear is that voiced protagonists will be seen as "progress" rather than simply an equally valid way of doing things with different advantages and disadvantages.

[Kendaric Varkellen]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

I thought of another change I would like to discuss. In Origins, weapons and armor were arranged into tiers, while in DA2, there were no tiers and their armor rating or dps were particular to the item and not the tier. I kind of liked the tiers, but I am not sure they contributed anything substantial, so I am not surprised that Bioware got rid of them.

Additionally, armor in Origins could be mage robes, light, medium, heavy, and massive. In DA2, we essentially have mage armor, rogue armor, and warrior armor. Personally, my rogues ended up in light armor in Origins, and my warriors in heavy armor, so the DA2 change was effectively cutting out the medium and heavy armor. Also, since all companions have fixed armor, having too many kinds of armor would have been pointless. However, I would have preferred that Bioware better defined niches for what kind of character should wear medium or heavy armor, rather than just loosing the concepts.

Also, it seemed like the amount of armor sets in the game was drastically limited.

I prefer complex systems personally, so I'm obviously biased in my opinion but here it is anyway:

I do prefer the armor categories of Origins, the need to balance defense vs. fatigue was a good system that added more depth to the itemization. I've never been a fan of the different tiers in Origins though, it felt extremely artificial to me.
As with many systems they went overboard with their streamlining process and removed another interesting aspect of the game.

[DrFumb1ezX]

Kendaric Varkellen wrote...

Lord_Saulot wrote...

I thought of another change I would like to discuss. In Origins, weapons and armor were arranged into tiers, while in DA2, there were no tiers and their armor rating or dps were particular to the item and not the tier. I kind of liked the tiers, but I am not sure they contributed anything substantial, so I am not surprised that Bioware got rid of them.

Additionally, armor in Origins could be mage robes, light, medium, heavy, and massive. In DA2, we essentially have mage armor, rogue armor, and warrior armor. Personally, my rogues ended up in light armor in Origins, and my warriors in heavy armor, so the DA2 change was effectively cutting out the medium and heavy armor. Also, since all companions have fixed armor, having too many kinds of armor would have been pointless. However, I would have preferred that Bioware better defined niches for what kind of character should wear medium or heavy armor, rather than just loosing the concepts.

Also, it seemed like the amount of armor sets in the game was drastically limited.

I prefer complex systems personally, so I'm obviously biased in my opinion but here it is anyway:

I do prefer the armor categories of Origins, the need to balance defense vs. fatigue was a good system that added more depth to the itemization. I've never been a fan of the different tiers in Origins though, it felt extremely artificial to me.
As with many systems they went overboard with their streamlining process and removed another interesting aspect of the game.

I never really felt fatigue in Origins, and i played on Hard difficulty. My game still refuses to give me credit for it.

[Vicious]

Personally, I fear that if we always have a voiced protagonist, we will not get a choices of races back. I don't mind having to be human in this game, but I don't want it to be that way in every game.

It's more of a question of "Does Bioware want to hear screaming and whining that the Male Elf's voice is the same as the Male Human's?"

Because people would scream. And cry. And claim Bioware sold their souls. Even if Bioware gave them more choice.

[DrFumb1ezX]

Vicious wrote...

Personally, I fear that if we always have a voiced protagonist, we will not get a choices of races back. I don't mind having to be human in this game, but I don't want it to be that way in every game.

It's more of a question of "Does Bioware want to hear screaming and whining that the Male Elf's voice is the same as the Male Human's?"

Because people would scream. And cry. And claim Bioware sold their souls. Even if Bioware gave them more choice.

This why they came up with new accents for different races. Besides, I think the Warden probably won't be the main character in DA3 (assuming there will be one.)

[Lord_Saulot]

Personally, I would prefer to play a new character in DA3.

[KuysTheQuick]

Excellent critique. Beyond excellent, this is the kind of depth and breadth that gaming review sites should strive for. Instead of a one page blurb full of marketing quotes and sound bytes.

I must admit after 32 hours in game my initial reaction to the game was not fair. It's a good game, but not one of bioware's best. I am not a console player, I own a PS3 for the exclusives that will never get PC ports. So I speak from a PC players perspective only.

With that being said your critiques mirror mine almost exactly so I will save the forums my 24 page critique I have been working on. But again, Bravo!

[Lord_Saulot]

Thank you. However, I would still encourage you to post your critique, or whatever parts of it you might like to post, if you are able to do so. The more feedback Bioware gets about this game, the better they will be able to put together their next game.

[jackygates]

The PS3 Version is in my view better on Combat and camera but everything else is pretty much the same probly not the Textures the game looks like it has 1 layer less than PC but that could be me heh

As a Female gamer I enjoy the fast paced combat don't get me wrong I loved the Slowness of DA:O but sometimes I wanted it faster!! 

Modifié par jackygates, 18 mars 2011 - 12:08 .

[Jon Vael]

Impressive paper. I actually took the hour + to read it all in detail. I agree with most of your arguments. I have not yet finished my run through the game, but I too will be writing a detailed summary in hopes of improving this series. As you stated, the Dragon Age II is a fun game, it isn't origins, but it also isn't better than origins. I think the most important point of your paper is that DA II was full of so much potential, but fell short of an EPIC game because of all the corners that were cut.

I think it is important that people realize that those corners could have been cut because of EA or because of the project scope. Ultimately, I truly hope that DA III ties both games together and turns out to be a true masterpiece.

Please Bioware, I implore you all to dedicate the time to make an epic game.

[Montana]

soccerchick wrote...

Hey, I'm back. But in response to the voiced protagonist, I think that now that Bioware has distinct accents for different races ( ex: Dalish- Irish/Welsh), they may be able to make multiple-voiced Wardens. After all, I wouldn't mind having my City Elf talk with an Irish accent. It would finally give him an excuse to get drunk!

Or they'll kill off the Warden in a totally epic way that saves Hawke's life. Either way works for me.

Or they could do the old: "you were found as a baby and raised by a friendly xx".
Throw in some comments about an unusual dialect for your race and the problem is solved!

[jackygates]

Tony77A wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

Hey, I'm back. But in response to the voiced protagonist, I think that now that Bioware has distinct accents for different races ( ex: Dalish- Irish/Welsh), they may be able to make multiple-voiced Wardens. After all, I wouldn't mind having my City Elf talk with an Irish accent. It would finally give him an excuse to get drunk!

Or they'll kill off the Warden in a totally epic way that saves Hawke's life. Either way works for me.

Or they could do the old: "you were found as a baby and raised by a friendly xx".
Throw in some comments about an unusual dialect for your race and the problem is solved!

Like Alistair? Rased by big slobering dogs from the anderfels?

Modifié par jackygates, 18 mars 2011 - 01:47 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

jackygates wrote...

Tony77A wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

Hey, I'm back. But in response to the voiced protagonist, I think that now that Bioware has distinct accents for different races ( ex: Dalish- Irish/Welsh), they may be able to make multiple-voiced Wardens. After all, I wouldn't mind having my City Elf talk with an Irish accent. It would finally give him an excuse to get drunk!

Or they'll kill off the Warden in a totally epic way that saves Hawke's life. Either way works for me.

Or they could do the old: "you were found as a baby and raised by a friendly xx".
Throw in some comments about an unusual dialect for your race and the problem is solved!

Like Alistair? Rased by big slobering dogs from the anderfels?

If Alistair was raised by dogs, then Fenris grew up in a magical pixie land where he spent his childhood dancing through the chocolate forests and gumdrop mountains.

.............. On second thought, that's probably true.
The Alistair thing, I mean. Fenris would never dance.<_<

[Lord_Saulot]

He just broods intensely in the corner while the pixies dance around him.

@Jon Vael: I look forward to reading your impressions too! And I also hope that Bioware puts in all the time necessary to make the next game as great as Origins.

[Sen4lifE]

JohnEpler wrote...

Yalision wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

It was a lengthy read! But thanks for posting it - it's quite detailed and you defend your points well.

Just letting you know that it has been read and taken into consideration!

Mr. Epler, just what is it that you do at Bioware and how are these suggestions passed forward from the forums? If you can even answer that. I'm simply curious if these are saved and printed out, or points are brought up at meetings on a dry-erase board. Thanks!

I'm a Cinematic Designer, which is to say that my job is to make conversations more visually interesting, as well as handle cutscene duties where appropriate.

As to how this feedback is passed on - well, I copy/paste the posts that are outside of the big Constructive Criticism thread and then e-mail it on to myself. I've also been collecting e-mails from folks on these forums, as well as other forums. I'll be collecting it all, categorizing the feedback (Gameplay, Story, etc.) and then sending it along to the appropriate people.

I'll also be going through the Constructive Criticism thread and giving it the same treatment. One step at a time, though Where the feedback goes from there, I don't know! It will all be read, though.

Impressive dedication to user feedback!  Considering such a large corporation, knowing you dedicate yourself to your community so much is rather comforting.

[Kilshrek]

+1 to your thoughts Lord_Saulot. I agree with most of your points, though on the subject of fortitude and combat, whenever a new enemy wave arrives it almost always brings with it the 'death' of my mage or archer. As you'd mentioned about the wave system, my mage or archer is almost always caught by a new wave and because of their low, low fortitude, they're almost always thrown to the ground or knocked into a corner. What follows is a rinse and repeat bashing by the enemy until my companion is knocked out. Combat was probably one of the most frustrating aspects of this game for me. And I started out in Hard, reaching the finish in just over 40 hours, without completing a quest here or there.