20 réponses à ce sujet

[huggingtonbear]

I got to the endgame, and though I sided with templars for most of the game I couldn't justify killing every mage for one jerk's actions.   However, there should have been a fourth option for Anders instead of killing him, telling him to leave or having him join you.  And that is to have made him tranquil


That's probably the one single punishment that would actually be a punishment to Anders, he doesn't get to die for his cause or fight for it like he hopes, instead he gets to live out the rest of his life in the worst nightmare possible, intolerable cruelty is the only prescription for what he did and tranquility is just that.


Well that's my two cents.

[Luridel]

While that sounds like poetic justice, once the Rite of Tranquility was performed, I have a feeling Anders himself would be content with it, just by the nature of how being tranquil works.

[joobjoob]

Anders would just fight back. He would rather be dead then be made tranquil. Well most mages feel that way

Modifié par joobjoob, 16 mars 2011 - 09:05 .

[RedWulfi]

I doubt anders would hand himself over like that.

[huggingtonbear]

joobjoob wrote...

Anders would just fight back. He would rather be dead then be made tranquil. Well most mages feel that way

Well, he would fight back until i cleansed and smote his ass, then the branded him on the forehead.  I'm betting a lot of mages who get tranquiled fight back.

[RolandX9]

Wow. You just came up with one of the few examples where I would agree with someone being made Tranquil. I don't think even mundane murder is on that level of body horror, but deliberately murdering a bunch of people to kill one person explicitly because you think she's a good person and might prevent the war you're trying to start? ...yeah.

[Taleroth]

Do you actually think it would work on him? He doesn't even have a fade-self anymore, it's just Vengeance. And his connection is so strong that the fade bleeds through him to reconnect other mages.

If you tried, you're either just going to kill him entirely, get several of your own guys tranquilled for the attempt, tear the veil, or if you're really lucky, you might turn him into a fade spirit capable of possessing other guys.  That'll be fun.

Modifié par Taleroth, 16 mars 2011 - 09:12 .

[Icy Magebane]

I like it. I'd have made him tranquil if possible, simply because it's far more brutal than death, especially with Anders' smug "make me a martyr" crap. The punishment should fit the crime, and this fits like a glove.

[Lithuasil]

Why punish him for what he's done at all? If he'd let me, I'd have gladly helped more.

[huggingtonbear]

Taleroth wrote...

Do you actually think it would work on him? He doesn't even have a fade-self anymore, it's just Vengeance. And his connection is so strong that the fade bleeds through him to reconnect other mages.

If you tried, you're either just going to kill him entirely, get several of your own guys tranquilled for the attempt, tear the veil, or if you're really lucky, you might turn him into a fade spirit capable of possessing other guys.  That'll be fun.

Tranquility cuts one off from the fade completely...hell it would probably free justice to become the fade roaming spirit (or demon of vengance) that he once was.

[Pileyourbodies]

A 4th option of making him Tranquil would have been perfect.... vengeance for those he killed.

[Icy Magebane]

Lithuasil wrote...

Why punish him for what he's done at all? If he'd let me, I'd have gladly helped more.

Because killing innocent non-combatants to further your political agenda is wrong.  Just my opinion.

[RolandX9]

Taleroth wrote...

Do you actually think it would work on him? He doesn't even have a fade-self anymore, it's just Vengeance. And his connection is so strong that the fade bleeds through him to reconnect other mages.

If you tried, you're either just going to kill him entirely, get several of your own guys tranquilled for the attempt, or tear the veil.

Well, for myself, I was just discussing the moral issue. Making Vanders Tranquil is clearly a non-trivial problem, even for the Champion. Ultimately, I don't think I'd actually do it even if I could (and the only sort of Champion even theoretically capable of this is probably a Warrior with Templar), but I'd understand. Assuming you're not endangering half of Kirkwall to do it.

[Helena Tylena]

Taleroth wrote...

Do you actually think it would work on him? He doesn't even have a fade-self anymore, it's just Vengeance. And his connection is so strong that the fade bleeds through him to reconnect other mages.

If you tried, you're either just going to kill him entirely, get several of your own guys tranquilled for the attempt, tear the veil, or if you're really lucky, you might turn him into a fade spirit capable of possessing other guys.  That'll be fun.

Agreed. Trying to tranquilize (heh) someone who's mind merged with a Fade spirit sounds like it could backfire horribly.

[RolandX9]

huggingtonbear wrote...

Tranquility cuts one off from the fade completely...hell it would probably free justice to become the fade roaming spirit (or demon of vengance) that he once was.

Remember Karl? ...yeah. Good luck with that.

[MACharlie1]

Can you kill the embodiment of Justice in the Fade? If not then I don't think you would even be able to make him tranquil.

[Icy Magebane]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Can you kill the embodiment of Justice in the Fade? If not then I don't think you would even be able to make him tranquil.

Why wouldn't you be able to kill Justice?  Countless demons have been killed in the Fade... The way I see it, you just enter the Fade, kill Justice, Tranquilize Anders, and leave.  And if Anders dies before all that is complete, then hey, at least you tried.

[Nimander]

I don't really agree with having him made Tranquil. Then again, I don't agree with the Tranquil process at _all_. It's basically mind-rape of epic proportions, like how they used to lobotomize the mentally ill. This is not in any way humane. You're destroying their sense of self. It's to the point where they'll do whatever you say -- that templar was gloating how once she was Tranquil, she couldn't say no (damn freaking creepy throaway line, btw. Implied rape ahoy!)

So no, I wouldn't want that. Death is more humane, and I don't agree with such 'solutions'. IMO, a /good/ chantry would work with mages, and have mages be a part of the policing. And if one steps out of line in a REAL manner, they die. Like becoming abomination. But not just 'You screwed up, you get lobotomized (Tranquiled)!'

[huggingtonbear]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Can you kill the embodiment of Justice in the Fade? If not then I don't think you would even be able to make him tranquil.

Demons and spirits are cut from the same cloth so to speak, so if you can kill demons in the fade I don't see why you couldn't kill spirits...in fact can't you kill a spirit at the start of the mage origin in DA:O? Or just duel him till he stops, i forget.

[Taleroth]

huggingtonbear wrote...

Tranquility cuts one off from the fade completely...hell it would probably free justice to become the fade roaming spirit (or demon of vengance) that he once was.

 I don't catch your point.

Anders/Justice is a completely unique (or semi-unique, Flemeth might be the same) situation.
1) He bleeds the fade to such a degree that he can reconnect tranquil.  What happens when you forcefully shut that off?  Does it go quietly or does the fade break?
2) Anders doesn't even technically visit the fade anymore, trying just brings Vengeance out.  Would killing Vengeance make Anders tranquil or exorcise Anders?  If it freed Vengeance to seek other hosts, would the part that is Anders go along for the ride?
3) He is powerful.  See 1.  No other demon or abomination has shown such ability.  Sending in mages to kill his fade self is likely to get the wrong guys made tranquil.

This is unexplored territory here.

Modifié par Taleroth, 16 mars 2011 - 09:27 .

[Icy Magebane]

huggingtonbear wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

Can you kill the embodiment of Justice in the Fade? If not then I don't think you would even be able to make him tranquil.

Demons and spirits are cut from the same cloth so to speak, so if you can kill demons in the fade I don't see why you couldn't kill spirits...in fact can't you kill a spirit at the start of the mage origin in DA:O? Or just duel him till he stops, i forget.

You can kill him after the duel if you choose to.