187 réponses à ce sujet

[Otterwarden]

xSHAD0WENx wrote...

bioware/EA isn't seeing my money for this game. however when it drops down to $40 then i'll get it.

Third party suppliers are offering it new for under that price on Amazon, so go ahead.

[Falls Edge]

You're talking basic bargaining practice, Bioware has enjoyed a healthy and positive reputation because they've given out quality products consistantly, now that they've fumbled the ball it instantly changed their perception of them.

Pre-ordering was based off that faith (I rented this game and I don't regret the choice).

[DieHigh2012]

Ashr4m wrote...

...Myrmedus

Too make it short. It doesnt make sense. I simply fail to understand how something like this was acpeted by the market. Not to mention that i only know few branches where somethings costs the same just because it is from the same branch.

I think the awnser to your question is stupidty....

(the only reason it isn't ignorance is because you obviously have adequate knowlege on the subject being talked about)

EDIT: by stupidty I mean your view point.

Modifié par DieHigh2012, 16 mars 2011 - 10:00 .

[Falls Edge]

You obviously don't understand the market as it has no sense, people have defended many choices that actively screw them over, I.e republican party.

Edited*

Modifié par Falls Edge, 16 mars 2011 - 10:12 .

[MingWolf]

You can't objectively compare the price of the game based only on how much you get out of it. With this said, however, I think price should ideally reflect how much value an average gamer can get out of it. There are a lot of great new releases out there that cost less than DA2... which, depending on who you ask, might either inflate or diminish the true value of the game. Whether a game should be worth its price is subjective, but I think there is a limitation to that subjectivity. Inevitably, it'd probably affect how well (or poorly) it sells.

Obviously Bioware/EA trying to get as much money out of the franchise as fast as possible. Which is why i hate EA, they are all about their investors, which is a big problem since this forces them to release games every year and make the development-time as short as possible to have a steady income.

I think if the game does poorly, inevitably this will affect investor relations as well. Its bad for business. How many people are holding off buying DA2 because of poor reviews and high prices?  If they are doing it just for a steady income, or for some quickie cash to pay off debts, then I might understand the motivation. Still, its probably bad decision making if that is true. Unfortunately, the customers are the first to feel the brunt of this.

I don't want to necessary put blame on EA/Bioware for anything, since I don't know exactly the root of all problems, but if it is all about money, then eeeugh, some reconsideration regarding the direction of the business is in order.

Modifié par MingWolf, 16 mars 2011 - 10:04 .

[fishx255]

It may not have been a ripoff, but I don't see what people gain from defending da2. They cut corners and the time spent to develop it was too short.

[DieHigh2012]

Falls Edge wrote...

You obviously don't understand the market or that consumers have no sense, people have defended many choices that actively screw them over, I.e republican party.

Consumers are the market you fool.....

[Falls Edge]

A mistake from lazy posting.

[Falls Edge]

Ashr4m wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...

You obviously don't understand the market or that consumers have no sense, people have defended many choices that actively screw them over, I.e republican party.

Still i fail to understand this. If i dont like something, i simply dont buy it. Yet this seems to be no option for most consumers nowadays and i simply dont get why. Maybe i simply refuse to believe people are like this ...

(for example: i read in another board, about some people complaining about a game and DRM, so i thought ok, if you dont like it, you wont buy it and state your opinion. Yet the last sentence was "so i will just pirate it". And i got the feeling that for many people buying games is not about choice anymore but some form of necessity. Still its only a game you can buy if you want?)

(sry for my bad english its not my native languange and when i get involved in discussions it tends to get worse )

I rented it because I didn't think it was worth buying based off of who I talked to and what I saw, but I did give them the benefit of a doubt by renting it, and so far all I've experienced is a myriad glitches/bugs and a relatively fun but lazily crafted game.
 
All it means is that at its core the game is okay but not a must have. Even though they advertise it as such.

Modifié par Falls Edge, 16 mars 2011 - 10:15 .

[MingWolf]

Ashr4m wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...

You obviously don't understand the market or that consumers have no sense, people have defended many choices that actively screw them over, I.e republican party.

Still i fail to understand this. If i dont like something, i simply dont buy it. Yet this seems to be no option for most consumers nowadays and i simply dont get why. Maybe i simply refuse to believe people are like this ...

(for example: i read in another board, about some people complaining about a game and DRM, so i thought ok, if you dont like it, you wont buy it and state your opinion. Yet the last sentence was "so i will just pirate it". And i got the feeling that for many people buying games is not about choice anymore but some form of necessity. Still its only a game you can buy if you want?)

(sry for my bad english its not my native languange and when i get involved in discussions it tends to get worse )

When that happens, its probably because the person sees some value in the game that is offset by both the price of the game and the DRM wall that goes with it.  If its too costly to buy the game, and there are other alternatives out there (i.e., pirating), then the person might just choose the alternative.  Its like grocery shopping and choosing the right tomatoes (assuming you want a tomato).  You don't want to buy any rotten tomatoes, you want a good tomato.  It just so happens that sometimes, the DRM -free/pirated game might seem like a good tomato for some people.  

I personally dislike DRM, even though I own plenty of stuff with DRM on it.  Its like biting the bullet everytime I pick a DRM'ed product.  Still, I see some worth in what I buy, even if I don't necessarily like DRM.  

[lx_theo]

Ashr4m wrote...

I havent bought the game, but i played the demo and read a lot of reviews, i have to admit i was really looking forward to this game until i actually played the demo ...

what i dont get:
- They had the engine ready
Seems like a lot of stuff have change. the entire artstyle for one. I'm sure it used a bit of customization, especially in a short development time.
- They reused music
Find me a game that doesn't
- They reused locations and animations
Animations is reasonable. Its not like Bioware had been big on that at any point. Its not like its overly noticable eiter. The locations are frustrating, though not the end of the world when it comes to the game.
- the development-time was pretty short
Yes, adn it led to some notable flaws. I'm actually surprised how much the game has with the development time though.
- there is less content
The shorter development time. That said, its not a small amount of content in any regards. DA:O had so much to do I never bothered doing any of all of it.
- there werent any costs to create a new engine
Tweaking, I'm sure. Building a new enginme probably wasn't the bulk of the development anyways. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
- they were already expirienced with the tools
So?

Yet the game costs 60 dollars? How does this add up?

My personal opinion, i think this game is crap when
you mesure it as the succesor of DAO, it is medicore if you mesure it as
a stand-alone-game coming from bioware, and it would be medicore or
even good if it was from someone else. And by looking at how it was made it is a rip-off.

Nope. Its not mediocre. Especially coming form someone who has yet to play the game... In admittance, I enjoyed DA:O more, but DA2 is syill great imo

Obviously Bioware/EA trying to get as much money out of the franchise as fast as possible. Which is why i hate EA, they are all about their investors, which is a big problem since this forces them to release games every year and make the development-time as short as possible to have a steady income.

*Sigh*. Are you surprised? It was rushed to make a release in an optimum timeline to go with Bioware's other two big projects. Its big business. Adnw ith the success video games have had. It'll only get bigger.

I think this is really sad. Gaming industry was fighting to get aknoledged as artform for decades, yet now they became some sort of  assembly line workers ...
Movies and TV are considered an art. Its treated very similarly fro  what i can see. Same with other 'artforms'. The more of a structure and team is involved in creating art, the more streamlined it will be.

Not to mention i lost my faith in Bioware. They screwed up the game, their reputation, they even screwed up public relations so hard that i have gone from "i like this company" to "i dont care" ... (its rather upsetting to see how fast they destroyed their good image ...)
Good to know you haven't played the game then.

Points made in quote adn blue (assuming it works right)

[DieHigh2012]

Falls Edge wrote...

A mistake from lazy posting.

Then you undersand that any provider of goods will change their producted when the consumers want something different.....

i.e. your posts have no point.

[MingWolf]

Ashr4m wrote...

inevitably this will affect investor relations as well. Its bad for business. How many people are holding off buying DA2 because of poor reviews and high prices?  If they are doing it just for a steady income, or for some quickie cash to pay off debts, then I might understand the motivation. Still, its probably bad decision making if that is true. Unfortunately, the customers are the first to feel the brunt of this.

Well i think your wrong here. When you are looking for investors its important to have a steady income. For example some years ago there were many small developers. They made one game, it took them years and huge invetments. They had almost no income until they actually released the game. So it was "either this game flops and "kills" us, or we get income". And theres the problem, investors dont want risk, and they dont want to wait years. So for investors its best if you just do it like EA, small games, released at frequent intervals. You may not get as much from one game as you would if you would bet all your money on one game. Yet you get assurance that even if one game fails, it will just be compensated by all the others you can make, not to mention if you release tham in such small intervalls they most likely are way less risky too make.

And im pretty shure, they have cut the costs on DA2 so much, that it will be profit-making pretty soon.

Yeah, but you make less than expected income, then you have less dividends to pay out.  For growing business, at least, it won't work, in my opinion.  Even if DA2 makes a profit, it still won't be top notch.  Then you get a bunch of disgruntled customers who will never come back.  I see what you are saying and your right.  But I think there is a risk to having bad products.  Its all I'm saying. 

Modifié par MingWolf, 16 mars 2011 - 10:21 .

[b00mQQ]

Ashr4m wrote...

I havent bought the game, but i played the demo and read a lot of reviews, i have to admit i was really looking forward to this game until i actually played the demo ...

what i dont get:
- They had the engine ready
- They reused music
- They reused locations and animations
- the development-time was pretty short
- there is less content
- there werent any costs to create a new engine
- they were already expirienced with the tools

Yet the game costs 60 dollars? How does this add up?

My personal opinion, i think this game is crap when
you mesure it as the succesor of DAO, it is medicore if you mesure it as
a stand-alone-game coming from bioware, and it would be medicore or
even good if it was from someone else. And by looking at how it was made it is a rip-off.

Obviously Bioware/EA trying to get as much money out of the franchise as fast as possible. Which is why i hate EA, they are all about their investors, which is a big problem since this forces them to release games every year and make the development-time as short as possible to have a steady income.

I think this is really sad. Gaming industry was fighting to get aknoledged as artform for decades, yet now they became some sort of  assembly line workers ...

Not to mention i lost my faith in Bioware. They screwed up the game, their reputation, they even screwed up public relations so hard that i have gone from "i like this company" to "i dont care" ... (its rather upsetting to see how fast they destroyed their good image ...)

Being experienced with the tools used to develop a game is ripping the consumer off? Wow... just WOW!

[Falls Edge]

I wrote as much in the first post, in the second post he was saying that he didn't understand why people were defending/buying a game that was worse than the first stating that you shouldn't buy an inferior product, there's a lot of reasons from subjective view-points but ultimately the reason I think that it's being defended is because some actually liked the changes and dealt/ignored the points that made it difficult to play for me, or had already pre-ordered so felt pressured to defend it regardless of what they felt to justify their purchase of the product.

(You pointed out and I agree with that the market is the same as multiple people) that is why I edited my post.
So I was in error with what I said.

Also, my post did have a point, people are defending a game that doesn't actually merit defending nor does it benefit them in anyway to defend it unlike the employees of the game, the only reason to defend this game is if you want a third installment or to correct a viewpoint.

Modifié par Falls Edge, 16 mars 2011 - 10:25 .

[Silvermaul]

Baldur's Gate II -> Gameplay > 150 hours. Replayability -> Awesome

DA II -> Gameplay 25-30 hours. Replayability None

[WhiteKnyght]

I like Dragon Age II. Good story and the gameplay is better.

Only things that I don't like so much are the Darkspawn redesigns(Ogres are okay, Hurlocks look like cartoony Disciples), how Hurlocks and Ogres seem to be the only kinds of darkspawn. And the fact that there should be more women you can romance but that's purely selfish.

[crimsontotem]

LOL one thing that DA 2 was great at was making their own little defense army made up of higschool and middle school kids who does not know what MMORPG stands for haha

[b00mQQ]

Falls Edge wrote...

Ashr4m wrote...

Falls Edge wrote...

You obviously don't understand the market or that consumers have no sense, people have defended many choices that actively screw them over, I.e republican party.

Still i fail to understand this. If i dont like something, i simply dont buy it. Yet this seems to be no option for most consumers nowadays and i simply dont get why. Maybe i simply refuse to believe people are like this ...

(for example: i read in another board, about some people complaining about a game and DRM, so i thought ok, if you dont like it, you wont buy it and state your opinion. Yet the last sentence was "so i will just pirate it". And i got the feeling that for many people buying games is not about choice anymore but some form of necessity. Still its only a game you can buy if you want?)

(sry for my bad english its not my native languange and when i get involved in discussions it tends to get worse )

I rented it because I didn't think it was worth buying based off of who I talked to and what I saw, but I did give them the benefit of a doubt by renting it, and so far all I've experienced is a myriad glitches/bugs and a relatively fun but lazily crafted game.
 
All it means is that at its core the game is okay but not a must have. Even though they advertise it as such.

A lot of critiques disagree with you.

[Roseking]

Silvermaul wrote...

Baldur's Gate II -> Gameplay > 150 hours. Replayability -> Awesome

DA II -> Gameplay 25-30 hours. Replayability None

I am sorry, the games of 100+ hours (other than open word) are over. It is not resonable to expect a company to do this anymore. It is not because they are lazy, it is because we no have full voice/cinematics, by using text it is much easier to draw out a game, haveing to animate is voice is not cost efective. 

Also I find DA2 to be replayable, mabey not as Origins, but not a one time through and done. 

[lx_theo]

Ashr4m wrote...

lx_theo wrote...


- they were already expirienced with the tools
So?

*Sigh*. Are you surprised? It was rushed to make a release in an optimum timeline to go with Bioware's other two big projects. Its big business. Adnw ith the success video games have had. It'll only get bigger.

Good to know you haven't played the game then.

Well, if they have already expirience with the tools they probably can work faster and more efficient.

Well, not really im just dissapointed that a company like bioware would jump on that "train" so willingly. Lets say i may was a bit naive here, or lets say i wanted to be

Well the last statmenet i made was more about their public relations (DRM, EA bans (yes it was a "mistake" after the PR-apocalypse (who would have guessed that ...)), faked user-reviews (and what EA/Bioware thinks about it), Moderators in this board, recycled maps and what they think about that)

Sure, and given they built this big of a game in about a year, I'm sure that experience helped that immensely.

Uh-uh. Yeah. People believe what they will. I doubt they "jumped" the train. They are more mainstream for sure. They aren't being big pleasers of the fans anymore just because its where their biggest option for money was. Doesn't mean the games aren't good anymore.

The public relations? Yeah, you'll see stuff liek that from every company with a half-decent stock price or whatever it involves. Expecting a business to be making moves for the good of the public is a bit naive in itself

Modifié par lx_theo, 16 mars 2011 - 10:33 .