187 réponses à ce sujet

[killswitch423]

$60.00 for 35 hours on one playthrough is plenty of value for my money, especially considering I'll be playing it more than once.

[Brenus]

Its not even just about how long the game is or how dumbed down the gameplay is, but also the game is so far behind graphically compared to other PC games that are coming out this year.

EVERYTHING about DA2 is far too bad for its price compared to other PC games, it is a shocking embarrassment of a game for a AAA Bioware release on the PC.

DA2 isnt even worth 10% the cost of Oblivion, or the upcoming Skyrim, or even the Witcher 2. Its not even 20% as good as Oblivion still is.

Modifié par Brenus, 17 mars 2011 - 12:48 .

[Guilebrush]

Personally my only gripe was using the exact same maps (with different portions blocked off) to represent entirely different dungeon areas in the game. Other than that I can't see why anyone would complain about the level of content in the game. It certainly is bigger and lasts longer than a lot of other games on the market and hell I found it entertaining (better than DA:O in my personal opinion) so no real complaints from me.

[DA_Joran]

Reuse of maps shouldn't be a problem. My understanding is the storyline occurs alongside that of The Warden and the two just never cross paths. The Wardens are finishing some task somewhere when you can never return to Lothering -- which happens to be the beginning of the Champion's story. It's logical that certain game elements would be re-used.

@Berenus:  Your opinion is totally subjective.  Oblivion plays like a PS2 game and even looks like one.  

Modifié par DA_Joran, 17 mars 2011 - 12:53 .

[Ravenmyste]

N7_killswitch wrote...

$60.00 for 35 hours on one playthrough is plenty of value for my money, especially considering I'll be playing it more than once.

it goes longer if you do the ancient evil when yo do meril quest and find one those  books then have to fun around looking from the others huribs demon doing every quest,, side quest  and chracter quest on this  character will net you 50 hours play thru come really close to seeing every chracters upgraded armor  only one actualy fully upgraded was merril her mage  armor looks sweet

only thing i found out about the isabela chracter was the fact the game will say your with meril AND Isabela if you get both to romance and merril acts strangly like she doesnt want to bring the mirror to the house and isabela wont live with you but  after the final confrontation the game will say that you leave with isabela no mention of merril if you go back into your game after the post  [playing merill wil in fact show up in your house.. when it supposed to be isabela

and no its not spoiler due i never posted anyhting  just saying about how the game content gets longer and about ri of isabella and merril and armor upgrades

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 17 mars 2011 - 01:06 .

[Ravenmyste]

double post

Modifié par Ravenmyste, 17 mars 2011 - 12:58 .

[Lady Cora]

DA2 isnt even worth 10% the cost of Oblivion, or the upcoming Skyrim, or
even the Witcher 2. Its not even 20% as good as Oblivion still is.

You r kidding. Oblivion was the biggest disappointment. the main quest was appauling. Dragon age 2 beats it and most other RPG's by many country miles.

Having played it I am really enjoying DA2 (i wish they had reused the music from the first game) and Can't wait for the DLC to appear.  1 thing is wish people would do is tkae off the rose tinted glasses and look at each game on their own merits. Yes this is a squel.  But many good games are trashed becasue people don't want progress they just want more of the same.  If DA2 was just like DA:O then people would still be trashing it for being more of the same. Game designers can't win. We are just to picky to be verygood judges and shouldn't give reviews at all,

Modifié par Lady Cora, 17 mars 2011 - 01:00 .

[Guilebrush]

DA_Joran wrote...

Reuse of maps shouldn't be a problem. My understanding is the storyline occurs alongside that of The Warden and the two just never cross paths. The Wardens are finishing some task somewhere when you can never return to Lothering -- which happens to be the beginning of the Champion's story. It's logical that certain game elements would be re-used.

@Berenus:  Your opinion is totally subjective.  Oblivion plays like a PS2 game and even looks like one.  

I agree with you in principle, I didn't mind it one bit that certain areas were utilized for a multitude of quests (such as having 7+ quests take place in Lowtown over the course of 3 chapters). That was no problem at all, in fact it made sense within the context of the story and helped give the player a sense of attachment to Kirkwall as a whole.

Now what I didn't appreciate was that every last cave used the exact same physical layout with the only difference being spawn locations and a door here or there sealed. The same applies to sewers and the "deep road style" dungeons. For instance a cave outside of Kirkwall where you search for a runaway convict uses the exact same map as one of the caves in Sundermount, even if they should be two entirely different caves (this particular dungeon layout is reused for around 5 different dungeons throughout the game). Sure a door here and there is sealed differently but still they're the same map, when they shouldn't be. That's really my sole problem with the game's content as this reuse of maps makes absolutely no sense contextually.

[Brenus]

Lady Cora wrote...

DA2 isnt even worth 10% the cost of Oblivion, or the upcoming Skyrim, or
even the Witcher 2. Its not even 20% as good as Oblivion still is.

You r kidding. Oblivion was the biggest disappointment. the main quest was appauling. Dragon age 2 beats it and most other RPG's by many country miles.

Having played it I am really enjoying DA2 (i wish they had reused the music from the first game) and Can't wait for the DLC to appear.  1 thing is wish people would do is tkae off the rose tinted glasses and look at each game on their own merits. Yes this is a squel.  But many good games are trashed becasue people don't want progress they just want more of the same.  If DA2 was just like DA:O then people would still be trashing it for being more of the same. Game designers can't win. We are just to picky to be verygood judges and shouldn't give reviews at all,

No, I'm telling the truth, though I wouldnt expect a person that makes as many annoying typing errors as you just did to have enough sense to be able to appreciate proper RPGs.

Your post is pure kidding, as you say. 'DA2 beats most other RPGs by many country miles' ...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, erm no, just NO it bloody doesnt. 

P.S, as for the main quest in Oblivion, most people who actually enjoy the way that Elder Scrolls games are never actually even play the main quest. Its more about doing everything else than it is about doing the central quest, the world is so vast and open with hundreds of times more stuff to do than there is in DA2.

The Dark Brotherhood quest line alone eats DA2 alive.

Modifié par Brenus, 17 mars 2011 - 01:06 .

[DieHigh2012]

Brenus wrote...

Lady Cora wrote...

DA2 isnt even worth 10% the cost of Oblivion, or the upcoming Skyrim, or
even the Witcher 2. Its not even 20% as good as Oblivion still is.

You r kidding. Oblivion was the biggest disappointment. the main quest was appauling. Dragon age 2 beats it and most other RPG's by many country miles.

Having played it I am really enjoying DA2 (i wish they had reused the music from the first game) and Can't wait for the DLC to appear.  1 thing is wish people would do is tkae off the rose tinted glasses and look at each game on their own merits. Yes this is a squel.  But many good games are trashed becasue people don't want progress they just want more of the same.  If DA2 was just like DA:O then people would still be trashing it for being more of the same. Game designers can't win. We are just to picky to be verygood judges and shouldn't give reviews at all,

No, I'm telling the truth, though I wouldnt expect a person that makes as many annoying typing errors as you just did to have enough sense to be able to appreciate proper RPGs.

Your post is pure kidding, as you say. 'DA2 beats most other RPGs by many country miles' ...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, erm no, just NO it bloody doesnt. 

P.S, as for the main quest in Oblivion, most people who actually enjoy the way that Elder Scrolls games are never actually even play the main quest. Its more about doing everything else than it is about doing the central quest, the world is so vast and open with hundreds of times more stuff to do than there is in DA2.

The Dark Brotherhood quest line alone eats DA2 alive.

I can't play ES, because there is no point to the story, wich is indicative of what you just stated. If even the hardcore fans can't "tough out" a horrible story, why should I?

This is a very good story (different than Origins, but good in its own right), and you are very wrong to think ES players have EVER even sniffed a good story.

[Coldest]

I bought the game on release day for $30. I should be happy about the reused maps then?

Game time doesn't equate to content, and DA2 is a perfect example of that. I'm running on 40 hours now and I'm still in Act 2 (I'm slow yes, since I'm playing on Nightmare and I don't get to play much at all). Sounds pretty good, until I mention that fact that I think I've visited the same cave and house and warehouse around 30 times now, which are supposed to be DIFFERENT areas in Kirkwall. By the end of Act 1 I reckon I've seen 80% of the areas this game has to offer, and I've run laps through them a dozen times. Here comes Act 2 and Act 3.

I can understand if BioWare is trying a different approach with DA2. I commend them for that. But there's absolutely NO EXCUSE for copy pasting this much content over and over and over again. The experience is simply offending on the player's part.

So yeah, I love Origins and I still like DA2. But if people choose to trash DA2 then go ahead, I won't mind. BioWare deserved it for becoming complacent.

[Azazel005]

Brenus wrote...

Lady Cora wrote...

DA2 isnt even worth 10% the cost of Oblivion, or the upcoming Skyrim, or
even the Witcher 2. Its not even 20% as good as Oblivion still is.

You r kidding. Oblivion was the biggest disappointment. the main quest was appauling. Dragon age 2 beats it and most other RPG's by many country miles.

Having played it I am really enjoying DA2 (i wish they had reused the music from the first game) and Can't wait for the DLC to appear.  1 thing is wish people would do is tkae off the rose tinted glasses and look at each game on their own merits. Yes this is a squel.  But many good games are trashed becasue people don't want progress they just want more of the same.  If DA2 was just like DA:O then people would still be trashing it for being more of the same. Game designers can't win. We are just to picky to be verygood judges and shouldn't give reviews at all,

No, I'm telling the truth, though I wouldnt expect a person that makes as many annoying typing errors as you just did to have enough sense to be able to appreciate proper RPGs.

Your post is pure kidding, as you say. 'DA2 beats most other RPGs by many country miles' ...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, erm no, just NO it bloody doesnt. 

P.S, as for the main quest in Oblivion, most people who actually enjoy the way that Elder Scrolls games are never actually even play the main quest. Its more about doing everything else than it is about doing the central quest, the world is so vast and open with hundreds of times more stuff to do than there is in DA2.

The Dark Brotherhood quest line alone eats DA2 alive.

The fact that you assert even thinly that the 'Dark Brotherhood' questline is a decent story even passable story makes me wonder what sort of storytelling you appreciate, 'A is for Animals' doesn't go out of print, maybe you should try that.

You make definitive claims with no justification. Your opinion is just that and your suggestion that people that enjoy DA2 'aren't smart enough' to appreciate 'proper' RPGs is both offensive and ignorant. I have no problem with people expressing an opinion, especially when it is appropriately justified (which any discussion should have) but you have a duty to treat people with equal respect.

Worth is entirely subjective and dictated by the market, I will get considerably more play time out of this title then the last 5, I have purchased and I have thought each and every one of them worth purchasing.

Objectively from a cost ratio perspective we have no idea what profit margin, business plan and investment return has been expected so one can't compare the without that data.

[Aidunno]

Simply put, prices for development have shot up. Prices when purchasing games haven't to the same degree. You only have to look at how many gaming developers go out of business to realize it's a difficult area to work in. Is it worth it? How much to go to the cinema for 2 hours of film? How long do you play a game for? I've completed one go through of DA2 and spent over 20 hours. I will go through it more. To me it's worth it.

I also agree that Oblivion never lived up to it's hype.. Boring open world, boring main quest, reused dungeon layouts and enemy scaling made it laughable. Interactive NPC's also spring to mind... In my opinion (note opinion as are most of the comments here), most "fans" are only fans due to "mods". Even the UI was designed for consoles and was worse than useless on a PC without a mod.

Modifié par Aidunno, 17 mars 2011 - 02:26 .

[Falls Edge]

Aidunno wrote...


I also agree that Da2 never lived up to it's hype.. Boring open world, boring main quest, reused dungeon layouts and enemy scaling made it laughable. Interactive NPC's also spring to mind... In my opinion (note opinion as are most of the comments here), most "fans" are only fans due to "mods". Even the UI was designed for consoles and was worse than useless on a PC without a mod.

I fixed this because I honestly believe a part of you wanted me to.

[Aidunno]

If you are quoting quote me... if not.. take my name out.

I definately meant Oblivion... I actually enjoy DA2 and got more enjoyment out of it than Oblivion. Morrowind, despite flaws was a far better game.

Modifié par Aidunno, 17 mars 2011 - 02:33 .

[DA_Joran]

Judging video games against movies does not make sense. Even B-movies have a much larger budget than the best games developed. However, technologies involved do overlap - like motion tracking and CGI sequences. Every year game trailers improve and threaten to change the film industry forever. Would you not go see the CGI films Dragon Age: Rise of The Grey Wardens in a theater or even Uncharted: Drake's Fortune or simply "Drake's Fortune"? I would and I love live action film.

Other comparisons you make are also far reaching and out of place. Pencils and boardgames are priced for the raw materials used in their production. Somehow I have trouble equating wood, lead, cardboard, and plastic to a digital product. I understand you are trying to relate to product lifetime. It just doesn't work well.

Regarding Game Development and Imvestments

I speak from a limited knowledge on graphics programs and my degree in Computer Engineering Technology. Applications, software, are constantly improved upon and offered as the latest and greatest product to the public. You only need to understand that there once was Windows 3.0 and now there is Windows 7. Microsoft didn't toss out everything it had in 3.1 through the years. Much of what existed there can be found in Windows 7 (DOS commands come to mind). The same thing can be said of game objects.

Game Development companies have two choices when starting a project. They can either purchase pre-existing technology and "game objects' or build their own. What will guide this decision is cost. It is more cost effective to use pre-existing 3D objects than to waste your time creating your own. This is why many games look the same, feel the same, and play the same. The only difference usually being level design, object skins, musical score, cast, and story line. Otherwise, you've probably encountered the same object across many games. With this understanding, it is easy to see development taking 12-18 months. That time includes quality assurance (beta testing).

GAMING INDUSTRY IS BIG BUSINESS

I, for one, am glad that video games have become "big business". The "big business" model guarantees a certain level of quality. It also guarantees a relatively respectable product release time-frame. It ensures the consumer will get "something" for money spent. As a result, many great games have been developed. Each one of us has their favorite franchise. Past franchises include Command and Conquer, Diablo, and Tomb Raider. Recent franchises include games like Assassin's Creed, Modern Warfare, Call of Duty, Fallout, Grand Theft Auto, Uncharted and others. Point is -- games are better because of it -- not worse.

ADVERTISING

Advertising is essential to any product. It's the only way to let people know about your product. And if you are paying attention, only certain franchises recieve TV time. Others are promoted in magazines and on game review websites. That's it. Your game has to be highly anticipated and expected to do well to get air time. It doesn't mean the product will be a slam dunk. It just means the decision makers have strong reasons to expect high sales.

Modifié par DA_Joran, 17 mars 2011 - 05:12 .

[rocketsauce v2]

Idiot Ashr4m is an idiot

[DA_Joran]

From my viewpoint, graphics, sounds, and textures have improved vastly since 1995. The problem with growing up with all this technology is it exaggerates your desires to unrealistic levels. Software will always be delivered with bugs. It's a fact of life. There is no way possible to program for every conceivable system configuration out there.

Now, I don't know about Gothic 3 or Silent Hunter 4. I do know that GTA IV was not that bad of a game. I enjoyed it and the graphics are far better than GTA: San Andreas. You got me on Civilization 5 too. However, I've seen videos that demonstrate some cool features that i think improve the game. -- ie: bombardment from more than a tile away. This is all purely subjective. It's what I think.

Regarding 3d-objects. You don't think weapons used in multiple FPS games look alike? I do. I think many objects seen in many games have the same appearance minus texture. Most unique items you see start off as a basic structure from some library. C'mon, every NPC you ran into started out as a basic mannequin that got tweaked. There is were your unique artwork comes in -- how an object gets tweaked. Time is money. If you can use an existing object, spend less time in modification, and save time and money, you'll use what already exists. Plus, I never said everything is re-used.

[KalDurenik]

Soilborn88 wrote...

Ryngard wrote...

I have
The only point I'm going to make is that DA:O was, by Bioware's own admission, a ton more content than the average game.

I'm sorry but if you compare DA2 to most other games (Deadspace, Castlevania, umm... Dante's Inferno, Force Unleashed 2, Batman, etc) it is much longer in content.

In the 90s you paid $40-50 for Final Fantasy games and the like and a GOOD one ran 40 hours of game time... tops. Unless you level grinded to level 99 or something. DA2 is about 40 hours give or take and much better than those old games.

You got a lot of EXTRA value in DA:O. DA2 is as long or longer than both Awakening and Mass Effect 2.

Quit whining.

I finished the game in like 33 hours. On hard, and did every single side quest I came across, even took the time to find additional ingredients for my potions and runes, and I even took the time to develop my relationships with all my companions except Fenris.

I pre-ordered the game because I gave Bioware the benefit of the doubt, despite the rumors and claims about DA2 new direction. Now that benefit of the doubt is gone, I doubt future DLC for DA2 will be any good, and I doubt DA3 will be worth buying either.

This game just isn't worth 60 bucks and by the time the DLC is all said and done people will be spending 100+ dollars on an incomplete game that the DLC should have been in already. It's obvious Bioware took countless shortcuts yet people still praise this game.

I have no plans to purchase any DLC for this game, or DA3 for that matter.

The thing is if this was any other dev... Then people would not defend this. But because its Bioware they are somehow above creating bad games?

Its like review websites "yeah i want to give the game a lower score... But its Bioware / Dragon age!"...

Lets say it was a studio... Blue fox (made up name) then no one would even take a look at the game.

[Bonkz]

My personal opinion is that the games content is very decent for the money you pay. Personally i didn't like DA2, i thought it was a step in the (very)wrong direction but as someone else mentioned, you pay the same money for a game that has 10-12 hours of gameplay in it. I will always say that the game was bad but i can't complain about everything

[Rumtruffle]

i completed the game. every quest i could do, with a couple being bugged and couldnt finished, in 35 hours approx.

i feel i totally got my moneys worth, and i can replay again with different choices. i wont do that for several months though. (i never do, no matter how good the game is)

i do however agree about the horrible reuse of locations in this game. i blame ea for forcing yearly updates. you simply cannot create unique memorable locations in the time, for this big a game.

[Bonkz]

Ashr4m wrote...

Still those mannequins are custom made for each game, or at least by the developer. (Which in lots of cases is a bad thing ...)
I would even like it if it wasnt like this, there are lots of examples for really bad body models, and ive your into modding you probably have already seen community body nd face models that are far better than those of developers (which is sad ...)

GTA was the biggest piece of crap i had on my PC lateley, you needed 3 programms just to run this crap (Social Club, Securom, GFWL), not to mention it was a bad port, i would call my PC high end, yet it performed really bad.
Civilization 5 was a bad game, thats not subjective since it was a bad game since it had so many bugs and the core mechanics were flawed (for example the new hexagon system was crap because obviously the KI was not able to use it, not ot mention that civilzation was never a war-game, it was about diplomatics in civ5 your are more or less forced to fight all the time which is boring if i want to fight i play a RTS-Game). There were a lot of patches but i doubt its good yet.

Well the weapon-models look alike because they actually are all remodeling the same weapons. Maybe they take some models from older games that they made themselves yet i doubt they buy those models from third partys.

I dont actually expect a game without bugs, but i expect a game with a "soul". Something that makes it special. Nowadays most games just feel cheap/sterile.
Not to mention that by trying to make every game into every genre they completely kill gaming. I like ARPGs, i like RTS, i like RPGs i even like FPS, still that does not mean that my perfect game is a ARPG+RPG+RTS-FPS mixture. I want diversion not the same crap over and over again. I really do wonder how long it will take until people get annoyed by every game playing the same, using the same mechanics, shure there are still different genres but yet they are nowhere near as varied as they used to be, and i think this will be the thing that will kill lots of developers. A market simply cant work if everyone tries to do the same thing (RPG-Shooters and Action-RPGs in different variations).

My personal opinion is that the games content is very decent for the
money you pay. Personally i didn't like DA2, i thought it was a step in
the (very)wrong direction but as someone else mentioned, you pay the
same money for a game that has 10-12 hours of gameplay in it. I will
always say that the game was bad but i can't complain about everything

Yeah its decent compared to medicore games from medicore companies. But for me, and i think also for some other people bioware different and had its own standard.
Just imagine your favourite writer writes great books way better than most books from others. Someday he starts to make way worse books and releases them in shorter time-periods. Shure his new books arent crap if you compare them to a cheap-shot-novel yet they are crap if you compare them to what he created before. I think Bioware should be honored not to be compared with some cheap-shot developers?

I wont argue that you have got a point there. I just try to look at it in a more positive way. What can i say, i'm still trying to look at the very few good things that DA2 has.